|
Allstone posted:I expect they're set on the resolution of the producing card, but static. (Like the zombie token from last set.) Or like Hydra Broodmaster's tokens. Yeah, that makes sense.
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:09 |
|
|
Joopjan posted:Seems pretty weird for ferocious. If you already control a creature with power over 4 chanches are you dont really need the +2+2 Play it pre-combat, clear a blocker, swing in. I'm really hoping for an Abzan control deck that just picks up increments of value with courser, strive silence the believers, and Liliana becomes a thing. With Garruk as a finisher.  Hopefully the loss of BTE will hurt rabble red enough to slow down the format.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
I'm so glad the colors I want to play are shaping up to be playable together.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
I cannot wait to draft this set. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
Well, there's 6 rares left to spoil in the set. We've seen nearly everything. Is there Goon Consensus? My two cents is that power level-wise, this set is between RTR and GTC, well above THS. The environment post-rotation is going to be a bit slower and control decks a bit weaker than RTR-THS standard. Aggro decks have a lot of totally insane tools, though. Mardu aggro has four 2-power 1-drops (Tormented Hero, Gnarled Scarhide, Soldier of the Pantheon and this new guy); for two-drops it has Mardu Skullhunter, Sightless Brawler, War-Name Aspirant, maybe Akroan Hoplite and Tymaret. For three-drops we've got Ascendancy, Charm, Rabblemaster, Brimaz, maybe Archetype of Courage or Aggression. Top it off with Stoke the Flames, Lightning Strike, Magma Jet, Murderous Cut, Ulcerate. Now I just hope the manabase supports it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Well, there's 6 rares left to spoil in the set. We've seen nearly everything. Is there Goon Consensus? if you want to do an aggro deck like that you really should stick to one color. the only BR fixing available is fetches and taplands.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:if you want to do an aggro deck like that you really should stick to one color. the only BR fixing available is fetches and taplands. I had no idea fetches were bad fixing. Any combination of fetch + one other land gets you your two colors untapped. If its really a balls out aggro deck mana confluence is in standard too
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
Mortimer posted:I had no idea fetches were bad fixing. Any combination of fetch + one other land gets you your two colors untapped. If its really a balls out aggro deck mana confluence is in standard too Fetches, without Shocklands/true duals, can only grant you 1 color ever. Other duals can switch back and forth between two colors. lets say you have a mountain, a swamp, a boodstained mire a ash zealot, and a lifebane zombie in hand. Provided you don't draw another land, you would only be able to cast one of either Ash Zealot or Lifebane Zombie. However if bloodstained mire was the R/B temple (which I cant remember the name of), you would be able to cast both. They aren't the worst fixing by any means, but they arent nearly as flexible as other duallands without Shocks or True-Duals providing support.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:28
|
|
|
Madmarker posted:Fetches, without Shocklands/true duals, can only grant you 1 color ever. Other duals can switch back and forth between two colors. lets say you have a mountain, a swamp, a boodstained mire a ash zealot, and a lifebane zombie in hand. Provided you don't draw another land, you would only be able to cast one of either Ash Zealot or Lifebane Zombie. However if bloodstained mire was the R/B temple (which I cant remember the name of), you would be able to cast both. They aren't the worst fixing by any means, but they arent nearly as flexible as other duallands without Shocks or True-Duals providing support. How many dual costed cards are there in this hypothetical deck? Searing blood maybe but that's all I can think of. In every other case you want two different colors which these fetches can provide. Yeah they aren't as flexible but it isn't unreasonable to say 3 color decks will exist
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:30
|
|
|
Madmarker posted:Fetches, without Shocklands/true duals, can only grant you 1 color ever. Other duals can switch back and forth between two colors. lets say you have a mountain, a swamp, a boodstained mire a ash zealot, and a lifebane zombie in hand. Provided you don't draw another land, you would only be able to cast one of either Ash Zealot or Lifebane Zombie. However if bloodstained mire was the R/B temple (which I cant remember the name of), you would be able to cast both. They aren't the worst fixing by any means, but they arent nearly as flexible as other duallands without Shocks or True-Duals providing support. At this point an RB aggro deck in Khans doesn't really have a reason to run anything with double colored mana in the cost. Mires, Confluences and basics could do a lot of work.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
Mortimer posted:How many dual costed cards are there in this hypothetical deck? Searing blood maybe but that's all I can think of. In every other case you want two different colors which these fetches can provide. Yeah they aren't as flexible but it isn't unreasonable to say 3 color decks will exist Stormbreath Dragon, Heroes Downfall, Polukranos, Nissa, Lilliana Vess (maybe) in Jund Fetches are a lot worse in 3 color decks than in 2 color decks for this reason as well. Also, I was responding to your statement that you were unaware that fetches were bad fixing, not creating a deck off the top of my head. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:35
|
|
|
Cactrot posted:At this point an RB aggro deck in Khans doesn't really have a reason to run anything with double colored mana in the cost. Mires, Confluences and basics could do a lot of work. true, those were just the first double colored cards that popped into my head. And 2 color decks should be fine, but fetches make for very clunky wedges/shards, which should make things interesting.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Fetches are good land fixing. They are not as busted without typed duals but honestly what is? Also if you have any delve in your deck or something like Grim Lavamancer-y cards you want maximum duals even if youre a mono colored deck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:39
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Goblinslide is terrible. Just WAYYY too slow. Slow for Aggro, maybe. This is insane value otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:50
|
|
|
You need 14 sources for a color turn 1, 20-22 for a double color. The biggest problem is that any 2-color combination has at most 8 untapped dual sources (Pain/fetch and Confluence). You can maybe get away with a deck with CC in one and single C in the other two colors, if you are okay with tapped lands. The problem is that having to run so many tapped lands makes your 1- and 2-drops so much worse. The aggro deck I'm working on is Wr and has: 3 Confluence 4 Forge 4 Temple 9 Plains 3 Mountain 20 white to hit WW by turn 3, 14 R to hit R on turn 1, 23 to hit 4 by turn 4 (which may even be one too few). And only 4 out of 23 as tapped lands so I hopefully don't have them gumming up my turn 1-2.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:50
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Slow for Aggro, maybe. This is insane value otherwise. But that effect is only good in aggro decks. It's pretty much the same problem that Spirit Bonds has and it's even slower than that...
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:But that effect is only good in aggro decks. It's pretty much the same problem that Spirit Bonds has and it's even slower than that... You should probably re-read the card.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
I think it's just one mana too expensive. They probably looked at Rabblemaster and Goblin Assault, saw that those cost 2R to do similar things, and went with that not realizing the 1 it costs each time to use this new card. It'll probably find a home in my Purphoros EDH deck but that's it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
I like the idea of Goblinslide as a constant little value churn in some Jeskai deck but I feel like if there's a pure control deck to be played there it would rather just use a big finisher than try to poke the opponent to death, and I'm skeptical about the mana cost in some modern-imitating UWR midrange/tempo thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
From what's been spoiled so far, there's no guarantee a viable Control deck will even exist post-rotation, which is also why I'm holding off judgement on Surrak.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
C-Euro posted:I think it's just one mana too expensive. They probably looked at Rabblemaster and Goblin Assault, saw that those cost 2R to do similar things, and went with that not realizing the 1 it costs each time to use this new card. It'll probably find a home in my Purphoros EDH deck but that's it. You don't have to do anything for Rabblemaster or Assault to make a dude. This card is asking to you cast a non creature spell in a deck that plays lots of little creatures and only a few spells. It's just bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:14
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:if you want to do an aggro deck like that you really should stick to one color. the only BR fixing available is fetches and taplands. Brimaz is the only card requiring two of a single color (archetypes are p bad in aggro I think, they're more midrangey). Sure there's Ascendancy/Charm but that takes only one of each source. Having lots of RW cards is easier than having WW or RR because a single red source turns on all of your R and your RW. Stoke is RR but has convoke. I think the deck will require mana confluence, maybe, but imagine this manabase 4 Caves of Koilos 4 Battlefield Forge 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Swamp 2 Mountain 2 Plains 2 Mana Confluence 12 white sources, 14 black, 12 red.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Brimaz is the only card requiring two of a single color (archetypes are p bad in aggro I think, they're more midrangey). Sure there's Ascendancy/Charm but that takes only one of each source. Having lots of RW cards is easier than having WW or RR because a single red source turns on all of your R and your RW. Stoke is RR but has convoke. I think the deck will require mana confluence, maybe, but imagine this manabase No reason not to run 4 Confluence.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
qbert posted:From what's been spoiled so far, there's no guarantee a viable Control deck will even exist post-rotation, which is also why I'm holding off judgement on Surrak. Even if the "can't be countered" words on him end up being irrelevant he's still a 5-drop 6/6 that gives all your other dudes Trample and can be played at your opponents EOT to immediately get beats in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
qbert posted:From what's been spoiled so far, there's no guarantee a viable Control deck will even exist post-rotation, which is also why I'm holding off judgement on Surrak. I have a sneaking suspicion any decks with UR are going to jam in that fireball counterspell
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:19
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:No reason not to run 4 Confluence. Minus one each Swamp and Mountain then. 4 fetches for 4 fetchable basics #yolo
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:You don't have to do anything for Rabblemaster or Assault to make a dude. This card is asking to you cast a non creature spell in a deck that plays lots of little creatures and only a few spells. It's just bad. I have to pay mana every time I want to use Lightning Rift? What a bad card! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
All of the Charms seem insane, and might be easy first picks. It depends on what kind of format Khans Limited is. I don't know yet if it will be a format where staying open is super important or one where committing early and hard is the way to go. I really hope there is some kind of rare or uncommon that counters a triggered ability.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
bhsman posted:I have to pay mana every time I want to use Lightning Rift? What a bad card! Jeebers are you really comparing those two cards? Or the power levels of their effects?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Minus one each Swamp and Mountain then. 4 fetches for 4 fetchable basics #yolo Nah minus 2 plains because theyre not fetchable
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Jeebers are you really comparing those two cards? Or the power levels of their effects? Directly? No. I just feel like effectively paying Kicker: 1 on every spells to get a free blocker/creature with which to pressure the opponent is really, really underrated. Especially since it'll be in a format with Purphoros, the card is almost a better Young Pyromancer just due to the fact that it dodges creature removal.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Mortimer posted:Nah minus 2 plains because theyre not fetchable poo poo good catch. I don't have any good R 1-drops and only one W one. Yeah that makes a lot more sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
I will first pick Quiet Contemplation almost every time. Stapling Frost Breath on every non creature spell owns.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:30
|
|
|
Cernunnos posted:Tokens: If Ultra Pro doesn't make sleeves of these they're throwing away easy money.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Directly? No. I just feel like effectively paying Kicker: 1 on every spells to get a free blocker/creature with which to pressure the opponent is really, really underrated. Especially since it'll be in a format with Purphoros, the card is almost a better Young Pyromancer just due to the fact that it dodges creature removal. Could be though there wasn't a Pyro/Purphoros deck while they were both standard legal. Don't forget that you're also spending 3 mana to play this and not affecting the board that turn too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:39
|
|
|
You're arguing that there wasn't a Pyro/Purph deck with one of the guys who built the Pyro/Purph deck. I don't think you're winning this one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:You're arguing that there wasn't a Pyro/Purph deck with one of the guys who built the Pyro/Purph deck. I don't think you're winning this one. I'm pretty sure the existence of a deck doesn't state anything as to its actual viability. How many Pyro/Purphs placed in GPs/Pro tours over the course of the season? That said, R/W Heroic from the block pro tour was neat and this is pretty cool with that kind of a shell.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
I'm really loving the spoilers so far. As a green/black player I'm super into the naga themed black/green/blue wedge and everything about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:You're arguing that there wasn't a Pyro/Purph deck with one of the guys who built the Pyro/Purph deck. I don't think you're winning this one. Heh. I wasn't aware of his deck building history. It wasn't a teir 1 or even tier 2 deck that won GPs or Pro tours or even showed up alot on the SCGOpen series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:09 |
|
|
Coming from someone who has been playing B/W Pack Rat for months and months, there's a big difference between building "the" Pyro/Purph deck and building "a" Pyro/Purph deck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:46
|
|
