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Alexander Dugin - weapons of world Zionism. Not many people in the West realize that Alexander Dugin is a crypto-Jew, and his Eurasian Movement is a special strategy to promote global Zionist New World Zion in Eurasia. It separates the Semitic / Sephardic Jews of Ashkenazi Jews, who are Khazars (Turks, who converted to Judaism in the middle of the 8th century, and whose zero Semitic blood, and among whom were Russian with Turkish blood), and argues that Eurasia should belong to multinational / multicultural conglomerate headed by "God's chosen" Khazars. ... His Christian fundamentalism is a cover, and just as dangerous for Russia and the Russian Quantum Leap, as well as his "Eurasia", which eliminates the Russian from Russia, so even called Russian became infamous in Dugin's Russian. No wonder Dugin called for a ban of quantum physics in Russia, and textbooks on quantum physics to burn. And that's why he invited his Council "Eurasian Movement" frank Zionist terrorist Avigdor Eskin, who desecrated the grave of Palestinians, putting it on the severed head of a pig. e: quote unquote
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Sep 10, 2014 20:14
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Kristov posted:He also couldn't afford to look weak by losing the black sea port. Am I misremembering the Euromaidan platform? Because I don't recall there ever even being a hint that the new government was going to renege on that particular treaty with Russia.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:14
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Cuntpunch posted:Am I misremembering the Euromaidan platform? Because I don't recall there ever even being a hint that the new government was going to renege on that particular treaty with Russia. There may have been some desire for that among the new government (which doesn't entirely match maidan values, either), but there are certainly far more subtle ways of preventing that than military takeover.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:17
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You guys should really visit the website mentioned at the top of that blog. It's time cube level of WTF
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Sep 10, 2014 20:18
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Cuntpunch posted:Am I misremembering the Euromaidan platform? Because I don't recall there ever even being a hint that the new government was going to renege on that particular treaty with Russia. Considering Putin spent several years loving with Ukraine's gas, it would stand to reason that they would use the port as leverage to stop him from doing that. Especially without one of his puppets in power.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:19
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The reddit Ukraine live blog has a link to this article, which makes it sounds like Russia is pulling back troops. Not what I was expecting, but maaaaaybe positive? Maybe they've decided against blitzing for Novorossiya? Also, any more news about the kidnapped Estonian guard? 
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Sep 10, 2014 20:31
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Fintilgin posted:The reddit Ukraine live blog has a link to this article, which makes it sounds like Russia is pulling back troops. Not what I was expecting, but maaaaaybe positive? Maybe they've decided against blitzing for Novorossiya? Our news said today around noon that Poroshenko mentioned something about Russian troops starting to retreat. I've been waiting too see if there's any mention of it in this thread. e: Here's a recent Telegraph article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11087665/Majority-of-Russian-troops-have-left-Ukraine-says-Petro-Poroshenko.html
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Sep 10, 2014 20:35
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Can you explain how understanding Russia is an expansionist imperialist state would help NATO prevent another Cold War? It wouldn't, but that's not really the level of understanding I was talking about and I think you know that.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:36
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Meh, I've had glimmers of hope that some sanity might be restored before and was disappointed every time.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:36
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eigenstate posted:
And here I thought it'd be hard to top this interesting article. It seems like this example of blog-based citizen journalism would not be denounced as dangerous by Russia Today.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:43
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Kristov posted:Considering Putin spent several years loving with Ukraine's gas, it would stand to reason that they would use the port as leverage to stop him from doing that. Especially without one of his puppets in power. Majorian posted:It wouldn't, but that's not really the level of understanding I was talking about and I think you know that. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 20:43
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Fintilgin posted:
He was an agent of Estonian security police (KAPO - literally "defense police"). He did have a gun and 5000 euros on him, probably to pay an informant. Apparently he was well known to Russians because he had been mentioned in some Russian security reports at least three years ago. After several attempts by our government he finally got to meet our consul in Russia, he was appointed a lawyer by Russia but we hired another - Mark Feigin, a well known lawyer for opposition, and was also defending Pussy Riot. More recently, he was going to defend that Ukrainian helicopter pilot who was captured and taken to Russia. But if found guilty our agent will face 10 to 20 years in prison. I guess they'll "store" him in case they ever need to do a prisoner swap. Today Estonia released the protocols signed by Estonian and Russian border guards a few hours after the incident, where both sides agreed that kidnapping took place on our side of the border. Our side also happened to film that joint investigation. Of course now the superiors of those Russian border guards refuse to sign that paper. I bet those border guards have found themselves guarding the border in Amur oblast by now. edit: It has also been revealed by the Estonian authorities that our agent's security team did not do their job properly. jonnypeh fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 21:05
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skipThings posted:No, gently caress Rrussias war of agression and all of this, but they are not gonna be so dumb and start beheading guys just a few weeks after ISIS made it into the headlins with it. We will see a lot of beheading in the coming years like we will get tons of Snackbar shouting in war vids. There has already been combat footage with DNR soldiers shouting snackbar to the ukrainians for the giggles. It was only a matter of time before beheading came (not only this kind of war trophy isn't rare but like I said the whole ISIS thing is making it popular). edit: not saying it's genuine but it'd not surprise me if it were SA_Avenger fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 21:20
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SA_Avenger posted:We will see a lot of beheading in the coming years like we will get tons of Snackbar shouting in war vids. There has already been combat footage with DNR soldiers shouting snackbar to the ukrainians for the giggles. It was only a matter of time before beheading came (not only this kind of war trophy isn't rare but like I said the whole ISIS thing is making it popular). Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Snackbar"?
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Sep 10, 2014 21:25
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Fintilgin posted:Also, any more news about the kidnapped Estonian guard? Estonian border guard released some evidence today that the incursion did indeed take place Russia>Estonia>Russia. There was a meetup of both countries representitives scheduled for today, the russian side did not show up. He is being held in Moscows Lefortovo prison and has had a chance to meet the estonian consul in russia, either they had a real short meetup or theres alot that has not been shared with the media(just the regular poo poo that hes okay and has been able to get messages off to his family. Estonia has hired the same guys to defend him who did the pussy riot court case(s?). That is basically it for the time being I believe. It smells more and more like the whole thing was just a counterspy operation by russia judging from the things that were reported immediately after the event. It would make sense since as other posters in here have pointed out the russian army has quite the force in and around Pskov including an EW battallion(?).
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Sep 10, 2014 21:27
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SA_Avenger posted:Snackbar Are you for real? This isn't the comment section on Liveleak. Rinkles posted:Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Snackbar"? The takbir. Allahu Akbar. Radio Prune fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 21:28
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Can you explain what level of understanding you were talking about? Because honestly, when you strip away all the excuses and explanations, the core of the matter is that Russia reverted back to its old ways extremely fast, and whenever people explain what counts as a threatening move it seems to somehow always be solely a threat to Russia's ability to push other states around. Or be based around the idea that NATO is ready to start a war with Russia, if only they had control of Ukraine so they could make a more direct push on Moscow. Those are both ways to characterize Russia's motivations that contain some truth to them, yes. Here's where you've lost perspective on the situation, though: whether or not Westerners view Russia's motivations as valid or evil or whatever doesn't matter. In the world of realpolitik, what matters are interests, and how states perceive their interests. Russia perceives keeping Ukraine out of the Western orbit as one of its key interests. You can say they're crazy for making that a top priority, or that they only want to push their neighbors around, or whatever. You're probably right, but in the realm of international relations, it doesn't matter. What matters is that, if the US and its allies don't want their interests worldwide to be severely hampered by a new Cold War, they're going to have to be a little more meticulous about how they try to disarm this situation. Just saying, "Russia is a bunch of dicks, let's show them we're not going to stand for their poo poo!" doesn't really cut it, if you're the US and you want positive results.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:34
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Is there a transcript of that border guard document somewhere? I've seen scans of the Russian version, but the handwriting is so bad I can't make out the words...
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Sep 10, 2014 21:34
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Majorian posted:Those are both ways to characterize Russia's motivations that contain some truth to them, yes. Here's where you've lost perspective on the situation, though: whether or not Westerners view Russia's motivations as valid or evil or whatever doesn't matter. In the world of realpolitik, what matters are interests, and how states perceive their interests. Russia perceives keeping Ukraine out of the Western orbit as one of its key interests. You can say they're crazy for making that a top priority, or that they only want to push their neighbors around, or whatever. You're probably right, but in the realm of international relations, it doesn't matter. What matters is that, if the US and its allies don't want their interests worldwide to be severely hampered by a new Cold War, they're going to have to be a little more meticulous about how they try to disarm this situation. Just saying, "Russia is a bunch of dicks, let's show them we're not going to stand for their poo poo!" doesn't really cut it, if you're the US and you want positive results.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:36
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The way his men in Ukraine act it looks like he wants a hot war.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:41
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Unless Putin has decided that a Cold War is in his interest, or a necessary evil to reestablish Russia as a major force in world politics. Super unlikely. He's not stupid, and he's no crazier than your average Russian ruler (which is crazier than most other people, but still). He knows he couldn't win a new Cold War, and he knows he needs the US if Russia's economy is ever going to get back on the upswing.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:55
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Majorian posted:Super unlikely. He's not stupid, and he's no crazier than your average Russian ruler (which is crazier than most other people, but still). He knows he couldn't win a new Cold War, and he knows he needs the US if Russia's economy is ever going to get back on the upswing. What is his goal in radically polarizing a previously divided country against him? I don't think Ukraine is going to submit gently anymore.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:06
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Rinkles posted:What is his goal in radically polarizing a previously divided country against him? I don't think Ukraine is going to submit gently. He just completely broke their back and showed them that all the words said in support of Ukraine are just that - words. 
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Sep 10, 2014 22:08
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I'm disappointed that the Bellingcat Buk article hasn't gotten more media coverage. You'd think a result like that would cause the investigation to be reported more widely. Is it about reluctance to heat up the situation, unfamiliarity with the methods used or lack of respect for not-real journalists? Or something else?
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Sep 10, 2014 22:11
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my dad posted:He just completely broke their back and showed them that all the words said in support of Ukraine are just that - words. Is a belligerently resistant Ukraine worth the occupation (assuming the invasion follows through)? I don't know if a country that size will be as "simple" to pacify as Chechnya, especially with Russia's economic problems.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:16
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Rinkles posted:What is his goal in radically polarizing a previously divided country against him? I don't think Ukraine is going to submit gently anymore. my dad posted:He just completely broke their back and showed them that all the words said in support of Ukraine are just that - words. Basically this. He doesn't need to do much more, other than maintain a permanent crisis there to keep Ukraine weak. Ukraine stays out of NATO, probably doesn't join the EU anytime soon, and remains mostly reliant on Russia economically and to keep the electricity going.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:18
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I wouldn't be surprised if Russia pulls their troops back out of the Donbas region now that Ukraine's retreated to a further back defensive line. It's bought the separatists breathing room and proves to Ukraine that even if they could beat the separatists militarily Russia will always be there to bail them out.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:22
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my dad posted:You guys should really visit the website mentioned at the top of that blog. It's time cube level of WTF Impossible. Nothing is that crazy. I'll check out the rest of that article later but negroid Zio-Nazi fascists sound interesting.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:28
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Majorian posted:Basically this. He doesn't need to do much more, other than maintain a permanent crisis there to keep Ukraine weak. Ukraine stays out of NATO, probably doesn't join the EU anytime soon, and remains mostly reliant on Russia economically and to keep the electricity going. Yeah I think the question is what Putin didn't achieve rather than what he achieved. He got Crimea and now Poroshenko is introducing a draft law to parliament next week that gives Donetsk and Luhansk some amount of autonomy. Along with everything else you mentioned i'm finding it hard to believe that Putin didn't achieve anything. It is also likely that all those sanctions go away if peace continues.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:30
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The Ukrainian military is pretty levelheaded. They acted right in Crimea and they acted right when the separatists were shelling Mariupol despite the truth. Putin would have loved a reaction of the Ukrainian military and used it for even further intervention. Hopefully the fighting is really over for now. On the other hand Putins lust for Ukrainian blood isn't being sated right now, so who knows.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:33
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cochise posted:Impossible. Nothing is that crazy. OBJECTIVE - RUSSIAN REVIVAL - Russia - peak tehnololgical revolution of information and par-new technology - fast overcoming demographic-nomic crisis at the expense of information-translationally-wave technologies, including, genetic lasers and psy-n-tors - a manifold increase in the uro-zhaynosti and generally, product of agriculture through the use of bioresonance generators and lasers PROGRAM PROJECT The program of the project: (1) the revival of Russia through the construction of Matrix Cities (city as a single information-wave matrices), that is, through the socio-political agenda, adequate positive possibilities of the technological revolution of information-wave science (as the "quantum leap") ; (2) combining the efforts of scientists of different fields of information-wave research, involved in a quantum leap for the system implementation of information technology in the wave matrix cities ; (3) the compound of scientists with investors, and, in general, the creation of public-motion, which lead to the early introduction of information-wave technology for the benefit of all sectors of the population of Russia.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:34
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Rinkles posted:Is a belligerently resistant Ukraine worth the occupation (assuming the invasion follows through)? I don't know if a country that size will be as "simple" to pacify as Chechnya, especially with Russia's economic problems. Ukraine will pretty much never be part of NATO now since Russia has just shown it can invade eastern Ukraine at will and nobody in NATO wants to commit themselves to a war with Russia. Donetsk and Luhansk might as well be Russian spheres of influences at the very least now and this will be an issue which allows Putin to destabilize politics in the rest of the country as well as making sure Ukraine will never ever be NATO material. Typo fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 22:39
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I was assuming Putin wanted to carve out a southern corridor in Ukraine. I guess a consolation prize of Ukraine "the failed state" to make a point works too. e:bleh, typo (consolidation!=consolation) Rinkles fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 22:45
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Typo posted:Ukraine will pretty much never be part of NATO now since Russia has just shown it can invade eastern Ukraine at will and nobody in NATO wants to commit themselves to a war with Russia. Donetsk and Luhansk might as well be Russian spheres of influences at the very least now and this will be an issue which allows Putin to destabilize politics in the rest of the country as well as making sure Ukraine will never ever be NATO material. That's not how NATO works. If anything, demonstrating a willingness to invade non-NATO members makes NATO look more appealing.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:49
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my dad posted:(1) the revival of Russia through the construction of Matrix Cities (city as a single information-wave matrices), that is, through the socio-political agenda, adequate positive possibilities of the technological revolution of information-wave science (as the "quantum leap") There's something that's charmingly old school about this little nugget of insanity. It reminds me of the proposed urban planning that futurist/constructivist types like Milyutin and Le Corbusier came up with during the early Soviet period. Geometrically perfect cities, linear cities, urbansim vs. disurbanism...it all seemed great on paper, but turned out to be pretty unworkable. Discendo Vox posted:That's not how NATO works. If anything, demonstrating a willingness to invade non-NATO members makes NATO look more appealing. Who cares what looks appealing to non-NATO members, if NATO won't let them in?
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Sep 10, 2014 22:55
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Rinkles posted:I was assuming Putin wanted to carve out a southern corridor in Ukraine. I guess a consolation prize of Ukraine "the failed state" to make a point works too. It's weird to think this was supposed to be the year of op-eds comparing Xi Jinping to Kaiser Wilhelm.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:04
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Discendo Vox posted:That's not how NATO works. If anything, demonstrating a willingness to invade non-NATO members makes NATO look more appealing. Yes and Ukraine is running to NATO for protection, it's just that NATO members themselves are not going to let them join because nobody actually wants to fight Russia over the fate of Donetsk. Which achieves Putin's goal of not having Ukraine being part of NATO ever.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:09
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Rinkles posted:I was assuming Putin wanted to carve out a southern corridor in Ukraine. I guess a consolation prize of Ukraine "the failed state" to make a point works too. Yeah Putin realized that his infamy points were too high already and decided to settle for a "liberate country" peace condition instead of "acquire province" condition.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:10
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Kristov posted:Considering Putin spent several years loving with Ukraine's gas, it would stand to reason that they would use the port as leverage to stop him from doing that. Especially without one of his puppets in power. You mean considering that Ukraine spent considerable not paying for Russian gas, and starting to steal Russian/European gas sold to Europe? Which made Germany so buthurt about that that Germany went ahead with North Stream, and tried to get a South Stream running too? "Ukraines" pov is that they get to decide at which price Russia can sell them gas, if Russia disagrees, they will gently caress with Russian gas supplies to Russias other customers. Russias pov is that one can talk about low gas prices, but not in return for "we gloriously westernized Ukrainians will not steal your stuff" but in return for other concessions. I would also refer you to the political programm of folks like Svoboda (who didnt do all of Maidan like Russian propaganda says, but did the forcefull takeover together with Right Sector and some other groups) that are very very explicit in wanting to "rid Ukraine of Russians". You are also forgetting another thing. Russia invested/subsidized Ukraine with something between 100 and 400 billion euros. While a considerable amount of that got pocketed (no, Russia cannot in any way enforce a transparent administration, or in any way reduce corruption in Ukraine. Nor do they have sufficient amounts of hypocracy to seriously engage in making other countries less corrupt) by certain Ukrainian oligarchs (certain other Ukrainian Oligarchs will pocket the EU money, well actually, you can scratch the "other", some of those are literally the same), considerable amount (gas subsidies etc.) were also directly beneficial for Ukraines population. So, the US came, invested some 5 billion over 20 or so years (pretty much pocket change), fairly exclusively into "democracy promotion" (more commonly known as regime change) and, by exploiting preexisting nationalist sentiment which has about as much to do with "western values" as serbian nationalism does, as well as Yanukovich failures, successfully regime changed. Bottom line: For a small investment of 5 billion, the US voided Russias investment of between 100 to 400 billion (breaking a bunch of agreements it signed in the process, not that the US was ever big on abstaining from interference in other states internal affairs). It gets worse if you take into account that a billion for the USA is a lot less than a billion for Russia, especially since Russia kept considerable aid flowing when they were totally hosed up themselfs. Consider what the US would do if another nation would openly inflict that kind of financial damage on them. Russia has actually scant chances of preventing the US from repeating those stunts elsewhere (other than in Russia itself). Right now (and in the past 2 decades), these color revolutionary regime changing shenangians are comparably cheap, create huge problems for the targets and their neighbours and dont have much consequences for the instigator, even if they fail. Russia is, for a lot of reasons, pretty horrible at doing that stuff themselfs, so "responding in kind" is out. They seek to clearly show that: - regime changing in what Russia considers to be her sphere of influence gets expensive, - Russia will react in unpredictable (not really actually) and serious ways to such attempts and - the US should really limit her shenangians to third world countries that Russia does not care much about. This is btw. why China backs them within "reason". While Chinas "sphere of influence" (Burma, North Korea, imho Turkmenistan but most of the Stans are a tossup between Russia and China, and these Stans try to not be in either sphere of influence with mixed amount of success) is more secure, and is also something they can take a long view on (no strong Chinese minorities in this places which would force China to act), the Chinese explicitly arent fans of regime change either. That "sphere of influence" doesnt necessarily mean "domination". Russia tried, in the last 2 decades, play a "democratic" game in Ukraine as they understood "democratic". Offer economic incentives, offer other concessions (like visa free travel regimes, remittances from the 3 or so million Ukrainians working in Russia are a pretty important part of Ukraines GDP) that benefit the population, dont intervene too blatantly (Yanukovich hasnt exactly been Russias "prefered choice" since 2011 or so), give out considerable cash for the Sevastopol base lease and so on. Had the west actually went and met Russias support payments with his own payments of comparable magnitude, the crisis would very likely not have happened. Choosing the EU is a no brainer for any Ukrainian goverment if the EU also offers Russian level subisidies. This is politically impossible of course, however, simply keeping Ukraine somewhat functioning in the absence of Russian support will require a 400 billion or so bill over the next decade. If you arent willing to pay that, you simply have no moral right of pushing Ukraine out of Russias orbit because you will just make it worse for absolutly everyone involved. Ah well, to paraphrase iirc Bezler (Seperatist commander): "You (Kiev) have the "west" for a friend and "us" ("Seperatists"/"Russians") for an "enemy". Some ocassions make me believe that we arent your biggest problem."
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Sep 10, 2014 23:14
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Rinkles posted:Is a belligerently resistant Ukraine worth the occupation (assuming the invasion follows through)? I don't know if a country that size will be as "simple" to pacify as Chechnya, especially with Russia's economic problems. I would not be surprised if this isnt the last "take, stop, test the waters, take again" operation that the seperatists did. The thing is, pretty few people actually "know" instead of "believe" how many parts of Ukraine would be pro seperatists if the seperatists are perceived as the winning party. The seperatists say "all of Novorussija", the Kievans say "nothing", and the truth is propably "Rest of Donbass yes, Mariupol propably yes, Odessa/Kharkiv maybe, Kherson propably no, Dneprpetrovsk hell no as long as Kolomoisky lives".
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Sep 10, 2014 23:21
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