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Mzbundifund posted:How DO they handle that in the Japanese version? Do they just assume Phoenix and Maya are bilingual and understand English? Perhaps, inversely, the good Professor is fluent in the language of Japan? Though, doesn't explain everyone else...
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Sep 10, 2014 23:26
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Waffleman_ posted:God dammit, Layton vs, don't you play Turnabout Sisters! Ah, gently caress here are the tears. On the topic of music, I think one of the most effective songs in the AA series is Dahlia's theme. All it takes is the first note and by halfway through AA3 you're just like "oh... poo poo." The song is almost like they captured Dahlia's entire personality in musical form.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:30
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Astro Nut posted:Perhaps, inversely, the good Professor is fluent in the language of Japan? Magic.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:34
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Waffleman_ posted:God dammit, Layton vs, don't you play Turnabout Sisters! Ah, gently caress here are the tears. That was my favorite part of the game. I had to put my 3DS down for a bit and just listen to that song.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:44
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Quick question, I'm thinking about grabbing Layton vs. Wright today, since I'm a huge AA fan. I thought Layton was just okay, I tried to play the first two games but just couldn't get into them at all. The puzzles were fun enough but I just didn't care to continue. Is the game more of an AA game or a Layton game? Is there enough Phoenix to keep me moving? edit: Hey I didn't post in the Wright thread. gently caress oops
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Sep 10, 2014 23:55
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MildShow posted:That was my favorite part of the game. I had to put my 3DS down for a bit and just listen to that song. Same. It just hits so drat hard, especially since this is the first game where Maya has been in for... oh, six years now? Damned effective player punch.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:57
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gay skull posted:Quick question, I'm thinking about grabbing Layton vs. Wright today, since I'm a huge AA fan. I thought Layton was just okay, I tried to play the first two games but just couldn't get into them at all. The puzzles were fun enough but I just didn't care to continue. I've only played the first Layton game and I'd say the court trials in PLvPW are worth the price of admission alone, they're quite good (some of the best in the series I feel) and pretty lengthy. The parts where you're walking around are similar enough to the investigation parts in the AA games that it shouldn't really be a problem. I definitely recommend it. Oh and I guess the ending is pretty stupid but I don't think it retroactively ruins the game or anything like that.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:00
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gay skull posted:Quick question, I'm thinking about grabbing Layton vs. Wright today, since I'm a huge AA fan. I thought Layton was just okay, I tried to play the first two games but just couldn't get into them at all. The puzzles were fun enough but I just didn't care to continue. To me it felt more like a Layton game where Nick and Maya were guest starring, in terms of the story and setting, but gameplay-wise you'll get about 50% Layton and 50% Ace Attorney.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:08
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Dunban posted:To me it felt more like a Layton game where Nick and Maya were guest starring, in terms of the story and setting, but gameplay-wise you'll get about 50% Layton and 50% Ace Attorney. It starts off fairly even and gets more Layton towards the end, especially narratively. The AA parts are some good AA, though, and if you're willing to accept the Layton mode of storytelling it's a pretty fun story. That said you'll probably be let down by the resolution if you're expecting an AA-style climax.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:14
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gay skull posted:Quick question, I'm thinking about grabbing Layton vs. Wright today, since I'm a huge AA fan. I thought Layton was just okay, I tried to play the first two games but just couldn't get into them at all. The puzzles were fun enough but I just didn't care to continue. It's the best AA game in years mostly by virtue of being written by the actual author of the series. He knows how to do this poo poo by now. But by that I mean strictly the court cases. Your opinions on the overall story may vary wildly. I loved it, but I'm extremely tolerant to plotholes. If you just want some good-rear end AA cases this is where you'll find them.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:49
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Just be aware the last half of the last case isn't really about player interactivity, but more on the side of plot dumping.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:20
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Meh, I honestly wasn't blown away by the case writing. Probably because while it was good, the last case (which really brings it home in every other game) was really bad. Say what you want about Layton endings, the actual case was boring to play.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:48
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Yeah honestly as much as I like the game, it's mostly for the charm, the character interactions, and the creativity of the mechanics. The first trial is good, though standard intro trial stuff and short. The second and third trials are the strongest part of the game but don't quite live up to the potential of their new mechanics. And the final trial has one interesting trial section and then a ton of exposition. It's a great, charming, fun game and if you can find it in your cold dead hearts to enjoy the wacky Layton story, you'll love it. But it's not one of the best Ace Attorney games, or even the best recent one (both DD and AAI2 are much much better both in plot and in individual mysteries). Not the worst either though, Apollo.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:52
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The last case in PL vs AA is bad, it is such a chore to play and the entire story surrounding it is bad. The other two cases are good, but that last case is too long and has too much interference being run throughout it. It reminds me a lot of the last AAI case actually.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:53
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Regy Rusty posted:And the final trial has one interesting trial section and then a ton of exposition. It starts out so strong with the Vigilantes who are fantastic but then... Layton takes a plot dump. 
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Sep 11, 2014 01:57
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It could have been so much better too. I think they should have gone further with the Layton as inquisitor idea and made the bell tower stuff more complex. So Layton doesn't already have everything figured out but is playing the role to get to the bottom of things with Phoenix. You know, like how most of the AA cases go when the prosecutor is not the true suspect.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:02
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Yeah, Layton knowing everything and leading Phoenix by the nose was super annoying.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:27
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MrAristocrates posted:Yeah, Layton knowing everything and leading Phoenix by the nose was super annoying. On the other hand, the contrast between Layton's ten-steps-ahead hypercompetence and Phoenix make-it-up-as-I-go-along underdog persistence is one of my favorite bits of characterization.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:39
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It's also one of the most obnoxious parts of that trial because Layton pretty much takes it over by that point and completely one ups Phoenix at every point. They are never equals, Phoenix is just some idiot who accidentally walked into this. Which might have ended up being the case when it was all said and done, but that's still a pretty lovely way to treat your character, Takumi.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:01
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I think a better way to have done it would to have Layton play a more Edgeworth-like role, convinced he has all the answers and the regrettable truth is that Espella destroyed the village, and then play that off Nick believing in his client and have them discover the truth in the middle. As it is, Nick felt like a third wheel in his own game and the entire finale was a tedious plot dump almost devoid of gameplay.
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Sep 11, 2014 14:00
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It might be that this kind of thing is where the AA production staff got the idea for the mechanic with Holmes for the new game. You know, telling a hyperintelligent Brit where his logic might be a little off and all that. Though thanks to you guys playing the game, I went back and actually checked out the rest of the special episodes. They're an interesting blend of an IC epilogue and meta discussion, and at points even provide a genuine insight into how the game was developed - special episode 12 especially. Apparently the game's development was actually somewhat troubled, with the two teams at odds at times, if not actually fighting - whether physically or just verbally, the game doesn't specify. No names are specifically mentioned, for obvious reasons, but its interesting to see them take the chance to admit that this wasn't an operation that went entirely smooth.
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Sep 11, 2014 16:13
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That Meiji-period Ace Attorney game also takes place in England. Sherlock Holmes is now a part of the Ace Attorney canon. That's really badass. vvv oh poo poo, my bad Butt Ghost fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 16:42
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We're waaaay ahead of you, brah.
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Sep 11, 2014 16:48
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Yeah I agree that the ending of PWvPL was disappointing largely for the reasons people have said in this thread. It just lacked the sting of an AA ending. Even though the culprit in AA is usually obvious from the beginning, the process of a) realizing how everything is their fault and b) proving it is fun. You don't get that here. I was really hoping that after Layton finished his explanation Phoenix would object with evidence that Darklaw could not have rung the bell and gone on to prove that somehow Newton had fired a gun at the bell from below or something, but alas. The PL twist also seemed overly complicated. Lost Future had a totally ridiculous twist but at least it was conceptually simple, and foreshadowed in a few places. Here "magic" involves so many different elements that it's just baffling, and I'm not even sure what the cranes were for. I did like the idea of "magic is just a result of people doing stuff during a "time-skip", if they'd focused more on that and hinted at it more in trials that would have worked better.
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Sep 11, 2014 17:16
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Beef Waifu posted:It's also one of the most obnoxious parts of that trial because Layton pretty much takes it over by that point and completely one ups Phoenix at every point. They are never equals, Phoenix is just some idiot who accidentally walked into this. Which might have ended up being the case when it was all said and done, but that's still a pretty lovely way to treat your character, Takumi. The thing is, that's exactly how the characters are characterized in their own games: Layton is an unflappable badass in the Holmes vein, who's always ten steps ahead of everyone else, always has the answer to every puzzle, and always goes into the final act already knowing or suspecting the big reveal, the antagonist's motivation and/or true identity, and even the ironic twist in the antagonist's backstory they don't even know about themselves. And if that's not enough, he's also an expert fencer with a vast pool of knowledge that always conveniently includes exactly the thing he needs to know about right now. Does that sound like a total Gary Stu? Well, yeah, it probably does. But I'm willing to roll with it for the same reason I'm generally willing to roll with Holmes. Phoenix, on the other hand, is decidedly not that. He's a perpetual underdog: always down on his luck, always getting poo poo on by the world, always having his confidence undermined and only winning by the skin of his teeth. Except for his brief stint as a hobo puppetmaster in Apollo, which he got away with by not being the protagonist, Wright is never prepared and never ahead of the game, because that's central to the arc of any AA case. Wright spends so much time chasing contradictions because AA games are about unraveling a mystery by piecing together clues in a way Layton games are not: Wright, and by extension the player, doesn't have the full story, and until the very end we don't have the information we need to piece that story together, so we have to pick at every little lie and slowly reveal the truth. But that's not just a gameplay thing, it's a big part of Phoenix's characterization (think about how he's constantly getting picked on by prosecutors, witnesses, the judge, and even his assistants in all of his own games), and the difference between these characters and their approach to problem-solving is exactly what Layton vs. Wright is playing on in its last case. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 17:23
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Opposing Farce posted:
The flip side of this though is Nick's dogged faith in his client is usually worth something and in the end he turns it back round on the corrupt/lazy/spiteful prosecutor and saves the day, he's basically lawyer Goku. And even though he's in the dark for most of the case, he and the player usually have a good grasp of what's going on by the end and that's part of the satisfaction of bringing down the real murderer, untangling all their lies and exposing what really happened, as opposed to the finale of this game which was just an hour long wall of increasingly stupid text with basically no input from Nick or the player, even the ~final puzzle~ was just a short shape matching game which had no wider relevance to the plot or the characters. Obviously Layton is Sherlock Holmes super smart but it would have been nice if they could have written to the strengths of both characters and have them both meaningfully contribute to the conclusion of the game.
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Sep 11, 2014 18:15
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Also the standard Layton twist is less grating in Layton games because they are ultimately dressed up puzzle games. That way no one really cares if Layton wants to spend all his time expositing dumb plot twists and mysteries. "Yeah, yeah, an underground London, whatever. Lemme get back to solving that sliding block puzzle." But in Ace Attorney games, the mystery is the gameplay. It was bad and dumb in AA4 where Phoenix did all of Apollo's work in the final case of AA4, and it's bad and dumb in PLvsPW where we spend the last part of the trial tabbing through Layton's plot dump.
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Sep 11, 2014 18:22
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Basically, Ace Attorney games are awesome and good and when Phoenix actually gets respect it's because he earns it instead of just having it handed to him simply for existing. Layton games, on the other hand, could be better replaced with a crossword puzzle book or math homework, except the word problems are things like "If Tommy has five potatoes and uses four to power his fog machine to replicate the ghosts that haunt the hidden village that's actually just a series of houses built on top of a really large skyscraper in downtown London, how many potatoes does he have left?" Then then answer's five because he still has the four potatoes powering his fog machine. Fooled you!
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Sep 11, 2014 23:53
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I'm playing the DLC and right now I'm amazed that the whale hasn't been harpooned and eaten because Japan.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:45
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Phoenix and company always defend the innocent, no matter how delicious they might be!
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Sep 12, 2014 13:47
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Have a Look!
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Sep 12, 2014 14:58
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Majorian posted:I'm playing the DLC and right now I'm amazed that the whale hasn't been harpooned and eaten because Japan. Ace Attorney takes place in America, silly.
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Sep 12, 2014 16:49
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Waffleman_ posted:Ace Attorney takes place in America, silly. Really? The whole "Nine-Tails Vale" section of "Dual Destinies" seemed pretty Japanese-y. I haven't played any of the other games though.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:43
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Majorian posted:Really? The whole "Nine-Tails Vale" section of "Dual Destinies" seemed pretty Japanese-y. I haven't played any of the other games though. Father, forgive him for he knows not what he does.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:45
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Majorian posted:Really? The whole "Nine-Tails Vale" section of "Dual Destinies" seemed pretty Japanese-y. I haven't played any of the other games though.  It takes place in America e: this must be like the tenth reposting of this comic ...
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Sep 12, 2014 18:47
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Really should just replace the entire OP with it.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:49
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Majorian posted:Really? The whole "Nine-Tails Vale" section of "Dual Destinies" seemed pretty Japanese-y. I haven't played any of the other games though. To wit: The AA games were originally set in Japan, but when Capcom localized the first game, they decided to change the setting to America instead. They've stuck with this translation decision through the entire series even though it's only gotten progressively more absurd, to the point where it's become something of a running gag. I like to think the Japanese writers deliberately throw in stuff like Nine-Tails Vale to gently caress with the localization team. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 18:54
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Opposing Farce posted:To wit: The AA games were originally set in Japan, but when they localized the first game, they decided to change the setting to America instead. They've stuck with this translation decision through the entire series even though it's only gotten progressively more absurd, to the point where it's become something of a running gag. I like to think the Japanese writers deliberately throw in stuff like Nine-Tails Vale to gently caress wit the localization team. A Steampunk Gent posted:
Oh that's terrific. Well played.  I've enjoyed this game, but I have to say, Simon Blackquill really annoys the gently caress out of me for all of the game except for the last "main storyline" chapter. Way too Vegeta-y for me to enjoy. I wish there was someone who would tell him, "Knock the samurai poo poo off, boy." That changed, of course, when I learned about his background, and I enjoyed him in "Turnabout for Tomorrow," but I think part of that is because there isn't as much of him as in other chapters' courtroom scenes. I guess I just wish they had more prosecutors to face off with than just him and Payne at the very beginning, because a little Blackquill goes a long way.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:54
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Dang, my totally legally acquired copy of Ace Attorney Investigations 2 keeps crashing on my physical DS that has a mysterious sticker reading "DeSmuME_0.9.10_x86.exe" on it. It keeps happening during the cinematic at the start of the third trial, which I unfortunately can't skip. Does anyone have a similar issue/know a workaround?
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Sep 12, 2014 19:58
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Try to find one with a sticker that says 9.9.
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Sep 12, 2014 19:59
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