Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

"What we�re most excited about at Bosa False Creek is the introduction of our BosaEQUITY� program. BosaEQUITY� is the first program of its kind; an innovative concept that�s geared to help tenants become homeowners.
Rent an apartment at Bosa False Creek and each month 15% of your rent is placed in a BosaEQUITY credit account towards a downpayment in a future Bosa Properties or BlueSky Properties home, to a maximum of 3% of the value of the home.*

"

"Bosa has come out with an absolutely BRILLIANT home selling tactic by giving individuals who rent in their rental projects an equity in the purchase of a Bosa condo."

gently caress was already posted a page ago. I just find it funny because on my local city forums everyone's saying it's such an amazing idea.

# ? Sep 12, 2014 20:58

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# ? May 16, 2024 18:51

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

I really hope this Bosa scam takes off.

We need a new contemporary Great Depression to traumatize an entire generation into financial literacy.

# ? Sep 12, 2014 21:01

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I like that they're selling it that part of your rent is just going into a totally free rewards program, rather than them obviously jacking the rents up 15% (or more) to force you to pay into a fund that can only be spent on buying one of their condos.

Bosa though is trying to build a really modest apartment building here in Victoria, but it's next to some hippie houses that do "urban farming" (ie letting 90% of an empty lot sit over-grown and covered in garbage but sometimes they plant a potato or two) and they managed to get a loving picket line and start a petition. I've never seen such levels of NIMBYism, even in Victoria. They're framing it all from social-justice angles which is hilarious because it's a bunch of homeowners upset their view will be blocked by some rentals.

They're also saying the small grocery store in the podium is a "BIG BOX" store. They also say it's "out of scale" for the neighbourhood. It's 4 stories on one side, 8 on the other. It's neighbours are a 4 story apartment and some 2.5 story houses on one side and an 11 story building on the other. Bosa seems like a scummy developer but the building its self seems fine and the resistance to it is really weird and embarrassing.

Apparently the residents want only 2-3 story town-houses and retail that is tiny and reserved for LOCAL businesses only.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 12, 2014

# ? Sep 12, 2014 21:02

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

Just remember that Bosa is of the same cut as MAC Marketing which took its two marketing drones to try and say that Chinese New Year is a hot time to buy property if you're visiting from China.

# ? Sep 12, 2014 21:27

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

triplexpac posted:

The housing market is confusing. The Fincial Post these two headlines running:

Canada housing market shows no sign of slowing as prices rise for 9th month (Sept 12)

Canada housing starts cool in August, seen slowing further (Sept 9)

Starts tapering off is a leading indicator for stagnation or declines in home prices. Similarly, a lot of starts usually precede upward movement in prices.

Or to put it another way, the canary in the coal mine is coughing and choking.

Mexplosivo posted:

All the "Canada's robust banking system" headlines that came out during 08/09 certainly helped in reinforcing the new-found Canadian smugness. To this day you're still getting the "We're not the US guy, we don't have sub-prime " reasoning. I still haven't gotten an acceptable response (imo) to my next question: "What about Spain? Ireland? France? Italy? UK?... They didn't have sub-prime, are you like any of those?"

And subprime is just an industry term for "lending to people who we normally wouldn't lend to." Guess what we Americans would classify all this no-doc and low-doc poo poo in Canada (hint: it wouldn't be classified as prime :ssh:

)

axeil fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Sep 12, 2014

# ? Sep 12, 2014 21:34

Mola Yam: Jun 18, 2004; Kali Ma Shakti de!

Meanwhile in Australia.

Two and a half million dollars:

Three point eight million dollars:

(sold at auction for $760,000 over the reserve price, equivalent to about $5,500/m�, or $510/ft�)

I like this thread since it's basically like reading about the Australian housing market with the names changed. We both rode the resources and immigration rollercoaster up, and by god we're going to Themla and Louise this motherfucker over the cliff together, too.

# ? Sep 13, 2014 14:58

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Between the long histories of the mistreatment of our respective aboriginal poples, the moral panics about the Yellow Invasion, and the constant pining for developing our northern frontiers, Australia and Canada really do have a lot in common.

# ? Sep 13, 2014 16:30

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Mola Yam posted:

Meanwhile in Australia.

Two and a half million dollars:

Three point eight million dollars:

(sold at auction for $760,000 over the reserve price, equivalent to about $5,500/m�, or $510/ft�)

I like this thread since it's basically like reading about the Australian housing market with the names changed. We both rode the resources and immigration rollercoaster up, and by god we're going to Themla and Louise this motherfucker over the cliff together, too.

Making so many of the same mistakes we are too. Hopefully that plan to let you guys use retirements funds as a down payment doesn't go anywhere.

Everyone looting their own retirement funds here is one of the more depressing aspects of our bubble.

# ? Sep 13, 2014 17:16

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Dreylad posted:

Between the long histories of the mistreatment of our respective aboriginal poples, the moral panics about the Yellow Invasion, and the constant pining for developing our northern frontiers, Australia and Canada really do have a lot in common.

Also deeply unpopular hyper-conservative governments bent on destroying both the economy and environment as quickly as possible before they're booted out. The whole "dredge the great barrier reef for coal ships!!" thing feel so similar to the BC pipeline issues.

# ? Sep 13, 2014 17:25

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadians-are-feeling-the-financial-squeeze/article20501623/?click=sf_rob

quote:

Canadian workers are feeling pinched when it comes to their finances, with a growing number saying they are living paycheque to paycheque.

An annual survey of employees by the Canadian Payroll Association (CPA) shows more people are overwhelmed by their debt, are saving less and would face real hardship if their paycheque was delayed by a single week.

�Even though the Canadian economy did well relative to other G7 countries in the past decade, many employed Canadians say they are having a difficult time making ends meet,� said Marie Lyne Dion, chair of the CPA, which is releasing the survey Wednesday.

Most of the survey�s measures of financial health have deteriorated this year, with more employed people planning on delaying retirement amid eroded savings.

And it�s not the only indicator to suggest households are getting squeezed. A separate Bank of Montreal poll released this week found a growing number of Canadians have only enough savings to cover one month or less in case of an emergency.

Subdued real wage growth and muted hiring have kept a lid on earnings. Meanwhile, house prices continue to climb and inflation has ticked above the 2-per-cent mark for four months in a row. And while consumers have kept spending this year, they appear to be running up debts to do so.

Just over half, or 51 per cent, of the 3,211 employees surveyed by the CPA said it would be tough to make ends meet if their paycheque was delayed by one week. That was up from an average of 49 per cent over the past three years. Those surveyed this year are also living closer to the edge, with more than one quarter of respondents saying they probably couldn�t pull together $2,000 in the next month if something urgent arose, such as a medical emergency.

More people reported they�re saving just 5 per cent or less of their pay, while of those trying to save, fewer said they�re actually able to do so. One of the reasons they can�t was increased spending, said Patrick Culhane, CPA president, with 44 per cent saying they�re spending all or more of their net pay on their children, home renovations and energy costs.

Canada�s most recent GDP data showed a slide in savings. The country�s household saving rate tumbled to 3.9 per cent in the second quarter � the lowest level since 2010 � from 5 per cent in the prior quarter as consumption grew at a faster rate than disposable income. (By contrast, in the early 1980s, the saving rate was above the 15-per-cent mark).

Drawing down on savings to support consumption �may boost GDP growth in the near term but it�s unsustainable � when rates move higher and crimp credit demand, real income growth will need to counteract the drag from higher rates,� said Emanuella Enenajor, senior Canada economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch in a recent note.

The Bank of Canada, in its most recent monetary policy report, said risks around household imbalances are still �elevated.� Its financial system review showed the chief risks are in the housing market � with the threat of a sharp correction in house prices � along with household indebtedness, which leaves people vulnerable to a sudden job loss, or a sharp rise in interest rates.

More people � 39 per cent � said they feel overwhelmed by their level of debt, up from the average of 32 per cent in the past two years, the CPA survey showed. And 12 per cent of respondents said they don�t think they will ever be debt free.

Softer finances was causing more people to consider delaying retirement. Eight in ten, or 79 per cent, of respondents expected to delay retirement until age 60 or older, up from 70 per cent over the past three years. The top reason cited for why they were delaying was that employees aren�t able to save enough money.

When asked what the first step would be to improve their financial situation, the most common answer was to earn more. Spending less was the next most-frequent response.

tl;dr canadians are loving stupid and watch too much hgtv

# ? Sep 13, 2014 18:00

on the left: Nov 2, 2013; I Am A Gigantic Piece Of Shit

Literally poo from a diseased human butt

Obviously these people living paycheck to paycheck need to use high leverage to participate in a thinly regulated investment opportunity.

# ? Sep 13, 2014 18:12

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Strongest banking system in the world.

# ? Sep 13, 2014 18:49

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadians-are-feeling-the-financial-squeeze/article20501623/?click=sf_rob

tl;dr canadians are loving stupid and watch too much hgtv

Articles like this really put my financial position in perspective :stonk:

# ? Sep 13, 2014 21:26

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

FYI not having a single dollar worth of debt owns. gently caress home ownership, rent forever.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 05:52

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

EvilJoven posted:

FYI not having a single dollar worth of debt owns. gently caress home ownership, rent forever.

Yeah it sort of owns being debt free and also not having to visit home depot every few weeks/call a contractor to fix annoying house problems.

Also no more weeding the lawn, sealing the driveway or having to mow it during the summer.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 17:03

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

etalian posted:

Yeah it sort of owns being debt free and also not having to visit home depot every few weeks/call a contractor to fix annoying house problems.

Also no more weeding the lawn, sealing the driveway or having to mow it during the summer.

I'd hate to mow a driveway in the summer in addition to sealing it.

Ditto on this. I see home ownership as a way to shackle me. As it stands I'd like to be able to jump ship to Europe (dual nationalities) and not have to worry about the home I left behind.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 17:08

melon cat: Jan 21, 2010; Nap Ghost

melon cat fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Mar 16, 2019

# ? Sep 14, 2014 17:20

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I'd love to own a home, but not for any financial reasons. I love mowing laws, building fences, improving poo poo. I have enough friends and family in trade to get free/cheap help with anything I can't do my self. I never want to move. Even if it worked out a little worse than renting I'd be all over a house. But right now it's not a "little worse" it's insanely worse, not worth the benefits. I mean when I bought my car, for some reason power locks were $2000 extra. I'd love power locks, but not at $2000 more. I think a lot of housing-literate people are in the same place, they want a house but not at the ridiculous premium vs renting.

We're paying about 1300 a month for rent, 900 a month for the car (which will go away next year), and about 150 more in misc utilities/telcom. If I could find a good house where we'd be spending under 2000 a month on the mortgage that would be manageable. Even if it's a soft landing/stagnated market that's ok, I don't mind losing a few percent on my "equity". But I'm not so loving stupid to buy something, even something I can afford, to see it's value drop 20% or more over my lifetime with it.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 18:20

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to own a house, too. I like doing poo poo like that.

What I don't like is being saddled with an increasingly unreasonable debt load in a society where the average person has steadily decreasing stability.

EDIT: renting a house (or in my case the main floor level of a 2 story duplex) is the best of both worlds. We get very few of the hassles of owning (like when the landlord had to spend 5 figures putting a roof on the place this spring) but we still get the benefits of living in a house; basement with our own laundry and wash basin, extra storage, a front lawn to BBQ in.

EvilJoven fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Sep 14, 2014

# ? Sep 14, 2014 19:29

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

OSI bean dip posted:

I'd hate to mow a driveway in the summer in addition to sealing it.

Ditto on this. I see home ownership as a way to shackle me. As it stands I'd like to be able to jump ship to Europe (dual nationalities) and not have to worry about the home I left behind.

Do it. I regret not doing this earlier in life. You'll pick up experience in a real economy that you'll never see in Vancouver (or anywhere else in Canada) that will make you much more marketable when you decide to come back to Canada.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 20:00

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Cultural Imperial posted:

Do it. I regret not doing this earlier in life. You'll pick up experience in a real economy that you'll never see in Vancouver (or anywhere else in Canada) that will make you much more marketable when you decide to come back to Canada.

For sure. For anyone really serious about doing well in most careers (outside of a few, largely Toronto-based exceptions), it's foolish to remain in Canada, or God-forbid, Vancouver.

Which is not to say that everyone *should* leave, or that it's bad or neglectful if you don't. But if you're highly ambitious, and wondering about the paltry size of your paycheque or the scope of your opportunities, and still live in Canada ��well, there's your answer.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 20:26

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

It also makes sense to rent for a year or 2 if you relocate to a new area.

Helps you test the water in terms of the job being a good match and also gives you more time to find out which areas fit you better if you do decide to buy a place.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 20:53

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

Is it feasible to rent a decent place in Toronto without having a roommate/significant other living with you? The prices are loving insane. For it to get even close to reasonable I need to live somewhere on Parliament and Wellesley or on Jane Street. Unless you make 60k+ I can't see how the numbers make sense.

# ? Sep 14, 2014 22:58

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Kraftwerk posted:

Is it feasible to rent a decent place in Toronto without having a roommate/significant other living with you? The prices are loving insane. For it to get even close to reasonable I need to live somewhere on Parliament and Wellesley or on Jane Street. Unless you make 60k+ I can't see how the numbers make sense.

Yeah the rents according to places like Numbeo around around $1400-$1600 meaning you need a pretty high paying job to have your own place.

It's the other dumb aspect of the bubble since you need more long lasting durable rental properties but instead are getting piles of more speculative properties like condo complexes.

But but more condos means you can have more rental supply due to investor properties but the reality is even a condo investment property is renting for much higher than similar rental complex.

http://www.thegridto.com/life/real-estate/no-vacancy/

# ? Sep 14, 2014 23:22

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Strongest banking system in the world. Then envy of the g8.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 00:09

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

There are multiple "alternative financial organizations" that will also finance your mortgage down payment so you can effectively buy a house with 0% down.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 00:14

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Ain't that the truth. Can't wait till money mart starts offering bridge funding for people who can't make their monthly payment.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 00:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/people/canadas-new-startup-visa-finally-handed-out