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Literally Elvis posted:Is it really that surprising? Have you been to YLLS?
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Sep 12, 2014 00:22
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Literally Elvis posted:Is it really that surprising?
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Sep 12, 2014 00:23
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Cicero posted:Being unemployed is the perfect time to do less He can also "horse around"
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Sep 12, 2014 02:25
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and do more 
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Cicero posted:I thought there'd be more coming out of SAS and YLLS. I get the vibe that most SAS'ers are extremely overweight neck beards or ex-athletes that are now fat.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:13
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perfectfire posted:I had written a bad review of him (third party recruiter) because he invited me to his office and then summarily kicked me out for clicking the top of my pen too much. However, apparently he kicked me out for looking like crap x10 and he really needed me to know that I guess. Can you write some more about this please, sounds interesting?
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Sep 12, 2014 09:57
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It seems like there hasn't been much discussion of coding bootcamps in this thread for quite a while, so I'll throw this out there: I just got accepted to App Academy in NYC. I'm having second thoughts about whether it's actually a good idea to take the offer. On the one hand, the amount they get paid is directly tied to the amount I make after graduating, which distinguishes them from most other bootcamps, and it seems like it aligns their incentives with mine. On the other hand, there's no independent source I can look to to confirm their employment/salary figures, and the number of bootcamps out there has exploded in the past year, which makes me worry that the market is being flooded. I currently have a technical but non-programming-related job that I want to leave for various reasons, and I've learned some Ruby/Rails/JS on my own, but not enough to build anything serious. If it works out the way it's supposed to, I would definitely consider it worthwhile, but I don't want to sink a bunch of time and lost pay on something unproven. Does anyone have any real-world knowledge that sheds any light on this? yoctoontologist fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 10:00
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return0 posted:Can you write some more about this please, sounds interesting? Oh boy you're in luck because he just wrote an extensive reply to my review of him on glassdoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Intervi...pReview_4853368 Keep in mind that: 1. I am a terrible person 2. Only about half of what he wrote is actually true
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Sep 12, 2014 16:06
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perfectfire posted:Oh boy you're in luck because he just wrote an extensive reply to my review of him on glassdoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Intervi...pReview_4853368 It sounded like neither of you are lying, and instead just disagree on definitions of clicking a pen and how distracting it is. Left at that, I'd have given the guy benefit of the doubt and chalk your negative review up to a clash of personalities. But then he claims the moral high ground for not posting your name online, come on...
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Sep 12, 2014 16:20
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The Laplace Demon posted:It sounded like neither of you are lying, and instead just disagree on definitions of clicking a pen and how distracting it is. Left at that, I'd have given the guy benefit of the doubt and chalk your negative review up to a clash of personalities. But then he claims the moral high ground for not posting your name online, come on... Recruiters and HR workers are sub-human garbage, worthy only of scorn. So I'd side with perfectfire, the unkempt.
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Sep 12, 2014 16:23
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perfectfire posted:Oh boy you're in luck because he just wrote an extensive reply to my review of him on glassdoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Intervi...pReview_4853368 You Sullied His Reputation In Public, sir! How dare you!
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Sep 12, 2014 16:33
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Tres Burritos posted:You Sullied His Reputation In Public, sir! I want the word "sully" to be in the title of the next version of this thread.
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Sep 12, 2014 16:49
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quote:He clicked his pen around 40 times. I got a great laugh out of that. He was counting?
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Sep 12, 2014 17:30
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I'm curious how many people here switch programming environments/languages often throughout the day. For example: I develop/optimize/design website front-ends and back-ends, from Javascript/CSS/Html to the underlying C# (MVC), to the SQL and stored procedures I develop WPF apps I develop Dynamics AX/SQL for enterprise clients (often with millions of rows of data to consider) I develop Windows Phone/Universal apps (relatively new at this) I develop Winforms/command line apps (not much anymore) I write SSRS reports I do a little work on classic ASP sites, including debugging I also often do customer service for all of these products as well Most of the design and testing falls on my shoulders as well. I'm curious how common this is. I know in startups people wear many hats. Also: I make a $63k salary in a relatively low cost of living area. I've been at my current job about 1.5 years and I have about 1 year of junior experience before that at another company as a contractor. Should I be looking for something new for salary reasons? Any ideas of what the market rate would be for someone with my experience? I'm not an expert in anything that I do, but I am competent enough to get stuff done. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 17:34
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perfectfire posted:Oh boy you're in luck because he just wrote an extensive reply to my review of him on glassdoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Intervi...pReview_4853368 "This candidate came in looking as if he had just rolled out of bed. His hair wasn't combed, his shirt looked like he had slept in it for the last week, and he hadn't shaved." I got a kick out of that.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:04
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perfectfire posted:Oh boy you're in luck because he just wrote an extensive reply to my review of him on glassdoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Intervi...pReview_4853368 That's so ridiculously unprofessional for a recruiter to do it's kind of blowing my mind. That's the owner? http://edp-recruiting.com/our-team/ Please tell me it was Milo it's making this story much more funny in my head edit. Also, try Compri in the Denver area, they've helped out a few of my friends down with slavery fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 18:09
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Knyteguy posted:Also: Also, there's not a ton of downside to applying at other companies, as long as you're not taking so much time off to interview that it becomes really obvious. Why not just give it a shot?
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Sep 12, 2014 18:34
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Where can one find out what the big sectors are in a given area, and what kinds of jobs are there? I'm looking to relocate back home to Raleigh/RTP NC or NoVa sometime next year, and really don't know how to easily get a handle on that. I could always call recruiters but I'd rather avoid that poo poo now that I've done my time with that crap and actually have a direct hire job. For what it's worth I get emails for mid level positions now, so I guess I've managed to survive my time in contractor babby programming hell. Thanks CoC!
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Sep 12, 2014 18:55
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Knyteguy posted:I'm curious how many people here switch programming environments/languages often throughout the day. My main project at work is a full stack web app, basically from scratch. I'm in SQL Server Management Studio writing stored procedures, then over to Sublime Text for the adapter ruby gem, then over to another Sublime Text window for the rails app that uses the gem, then over to another tab in that window to write the client javascript app that requests & displays the data, then over to other tabs to write the sass styles and templates and tests. I'm sliding around the app stack all day, so like 4 languages there I guess? And then my independent stuff is C#/Universal Apps in Visual Studio. So I bounce around a lot in a 24 hour period.
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Sep 12, 2014 19:09
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gently caress them posted:Where can one find out what the big sectors are in a given area, and what kinds of jobs are there? I'm looking to relocate back home to Raleigh/RTP NC or NoVa sometime next year, and really don't know how to easily get a handle on that. I could always call recruiters but I'd rather avoid that poo poo now that I've done my time with that crap and actually have a direct hire job. "mid level positions"
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Sep 12, 2014 19:12
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down with slavery posted:That's so ridiculously unprofessional for a recruiter to do it's kind of blowing my mind. That's the owner? http://edp-recruiting.com/our-team/ Please tell me it was Milo it's making this story much more funny in my head It wasn't Milo, but I don't think I should be any more specific than that publicly. Thermopyle posted:I got a great laugh out of that. He was counting? “My theory, and I’m serious, is that he’s got some rare kind of pervasive developmental disorder. Or even undiagnosed atypical autism.”
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Sep 12, 2014 19:32
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Do you understand how git works yet? Edit: EDP Recruiting Services Response posted:This candidate came in looking as if he had just rolled out of bed. His hair wasn't combed, his shirt looked like he had slept in it for the last week, and he hadn't shaved. He slouched in his chair and paid little attention during the interview. He had told me that he was fired from his last position. He clicked his pen around 40 times. My job as a recruiter is to measure what my client will see and if there is a problem to correct it so that the candidate has the best chance of getting the job. I asked him to stop clicking his pen during the interview. He stopped for a couple of minutes. He started it again. I asked him if he would put the pen down. He tossed it on the table (most would have placed it on the table). I asked him if he'd like to come back another day when he was ready to interview. He said no and left. He forgot to mention that he stood me up for the first interview. He thought it was a phone interview even though I had given him directions and confirmed that it was on-site. This is an entirely different story (and much more plausible) than being kicked out for clicking a pen twice! Which half is the true part? sarehu fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 22:50
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gently caress them posted:Where can one find out what the big sectors are in a given area, and what kinds of jobs are there? I'm looking to relocate back home to Raleigh/RTP NC or NoVa sometime next year, and really don't know how to easily get a handle on that. I could always call recruiters but I'd rather avoid that poo poo now that I've done my time with that crap and actually have a direct hire job. Go to NoVa, work for government contractors or government agencies.
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Sep 13, 2014 00:59
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Mniot posted:Go to NoVa, work for government contractors or government agencies. I went from a contractor working for a company with a contract with a state to a contractor working for a county/city to working for the county/city, so I guess that's my niche now?  eh why not.
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Sep 13, 2014 01:40
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Knyteguy posted:I'm curious how many people here switch programming environments/languages often throughout the day. I do JavaScript (Node, frontend, coffeescript), Java (mostly Android), and Ruby on Rails. I have 1 year of co-ops, 2 years of experience at a large well known company, and 2 and a half years of experience at a startup. Design is done alone or in a small group, I do all my own testing. I make 85k a year in a place with medium cost of living. I'm probably underpaid
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Sep 14, 2014 06:16
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Things like this make me wonder if I should move to the US. I'm on £16k at the moment ($26k roughly). It's my very very first programming job at all so I'm happy just to be getting experience to be honest, but it seems like the ceiling here is about £60k from when I was looking at job postings before. Then again, I can't be fired at the drop of a hat and I get 31 days off a year, including the entire Christmas week, so I can't complain too loudly.
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Sep 14, 2014 12:15
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Surprise T Rex posted:Things like this make me wonder if I should move to the US. I'm on £16k at the moment ($26k roughly). It's my very very first programming job at all so I'm happy just to be getting experience to be honest, but it seems like the ceiling here is about £60k from when I was looking at job postings before.
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Sep 14, 2014 13:06
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Surprise T Rex posted:Things like this make me wonder if I should move to the US. I'm on £16k at the moment ($26k roughly). It's my very very first programming job at all so I'm happy just to be getting experience to be honest, but it seems like the ceiling here is about £60k from when I was looking at job postings before. I'm an American with zero knowledge of the labor market for software devs outside of NYC, but hopping the pond for a higher salary sounds pretty extreme. I'd be really, really surprised if you couldn't find a much higher-paying job than you have now in the UK. Maybe you'd have to move to London or somewhere, but that's a lot more reasonable than moving to a big US tech center. e: Unrelated, but anyone here who's worked at a really small/early-stage startup before, mind talking about it? How'd you get the job? What was it like? I've been getting a lot of emails from recuiters wanting to place me at small startups, like 3-5 people on their engineering team (I think it's because I have Scala and Go on my resume, and repos with them on github?) and I'm a little curious what it's like. I work at a huge company right now, so it'd be a very big shift for me. null gallagher fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 21:25
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null gallagher posted:I'm an American with zero knowledge of the labor market for software devs outside of NYC, but hopping the pond for a higher salary sounds pretty extreme. I'd be really, really surprised if you couldn't find a much higher-paying job than you have now in the UK. Maybe you'd have to move to London or somewhere, but that's a lot more reasonable than moving to a big US tech center. quote:The average salary for a London Software Engineer is £37,000 ( $60178.65), which is 7.2% above than the national average of £34,500 quote:In this year's survey, Glassdoor also took a look at the average software engineer salary in major cities across the US. Not surprisingly, the San Francisco Bay Area ranks No. 1 with the average base pay at $111,885. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/london-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1035_KO7,24.htm http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-facebook-dont-pay-the-highest-engineer-salary/
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Sep 14, 2014 21:48
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Cicero posted:Yeah, but London is as expensive as SF or NYC, but with lower salaries; according to Glassdoor, average salaries in the bay area are close to double that of London: Anecdotally London software engineering jobs pay well in finance, not so well in not finance.
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Sep 14, 2014 21:59
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Glassdoor is bullshit for the UK, I think it suffers from a lack of data points. Most people I know are on 40-60k. Edit: the finance thing is true though there are other decent areas. Mobile also pays pretty well at the moment because there's a shortage of good Android / iOS devs here. Tunga fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 22:19
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How do dev staffing companies fare compared to working directly at a normal company? Are there problems and pitfalls unique to being at the staffing company?
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Sep 14, 2014 23:12
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Kenishi posted:How do dev staffing companies fare compared to working directly at a normal company? Are there problems and pitfalls unique to being at the staffing company? My completely anecdotal obeservations of dev staffing companies is that they tend to work well for people who are experienced, already skilled and who can tell when they're getting screwed over, but are bad for people who are still starting out in the industry because you don't have the ability to screen your work as closely and when left unchecked staffing companies tend to go for the worst kind of "We'll send you to 1-week certification training so you can fill these positions!" crap. The programmers I know who used dev staffing companies successfully were all good programmers who were too lazy to do their own job-hunting and after joining them they either moved to full-time jobs as soon as possible or got snatched away by head-hunters before that could happen. In the meantime it filled a niche for them without sinking their pay too much (I think it was usually average with weak benefits). Also you might think that dev staffing companies would be quick to fire incompetent people but in my experience it's literally the exact opposite: they rotate bad people around because they always have a few jobs where really bad programmers can still make them money while the client is none the wiser. IMO this is a big part of what makes them dangerous for people who are just starting out. TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 07:03
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I have no opinion or goal about staffing companies really. DICE just seems to be filled with them and I've ignored them. I was in Japan up till recent and worked at a what was basically a staffing company for teachers, probably no where near the same as software staffing. I just see a lot of staffing companies picking up junior devs and they don't seem to be picky, as you mentioned. I've just been having trouble getting bites on my resume. I've got a humanities degree (Psych) but I've been coding since middle school and have stuff on a Github. I'm confident in what I can do and would much rather work directly given half the chance. From what you've said though it sounds like I should probably avoid them. I don't need to be hand-held but I would like guidance in getting better at what I can do, professionally.
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Sep 15, 2014 08:24
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Whatever Glassdoor says, and whatever the pay in London or SF is like, you should be able to do better than £16k in a developer job without moving an inch. That's preposterously low for any job which actually involves the writing of code.
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Sep 15, 2014 11:52
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qntm posted:Whatever Glassdoor says, and whatever the pay in London or SF is like, you should be able to do better than £16k in a developer job without moving an inch. That's preposterously low for any job which actually involves the writing of code.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:25
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null gallagher posted:e: Unrelated, but anyone here who's worked at a really small/early-stage startup before, mind talking about it? How'd you get the job? What was it like? I've been getting a lot of emails from recuiters wanting to place me at small startups, like 3-5 people on their engineering team (I think it's because I have Scala and Go on my resume, and repos with them on github?) and I'm a little curious what it's like. I work at a huge company right now, so it'd be a very big shift for me. I currently work at a startup with 5 engineers (including the CTO/cofounder). When I joined I was the 3rd engineer, and there was a period of time it was only me and the CTO. I also previously worked at a huge company (Oracle), so I have some perspective here. I got the job through a former coworker who founded the company. Not helpful, I know, so - see if there is a local startup news site for your area, and look at the companies that get written about on there. If you find one you like, message them directly telling them about yourself. You can also go the recruiter route, but it will be a higher barrier to getting hired - startups are often cash strapped, and recruiters are expensive. In terms of what it is like, there have been some big positives and big negatives. I like my coworkers, very flexible working hours, I get to work with a lot of different technologies and languages. For example, in one week I might work on an Android app, write a new feature for our backend in Rails, update our frontend in HAML/CoffeeScript, and write a little service using Node. Negatives are sometimes something annoying needs to get done, and since there are only a couple devs you're going to have to do it. Working on stupid client projects, tech support, tutorial documentation. Also, the series A situation is pretty bad right now, which leads to money crunch - I had to work for half pay for a month, am probably underpaid, and it took a long time before I got my first raise. I've also had to work 300 hours in a month. Finally, the people running the company are often not as experienced as the high level execs in a large corporation, so they make more mistakes and aren't as good at managing people.
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Sep 15, 2014 17:32
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Yeah, I definitely figure I could get more. I took it because I don't have formal CS qualifications and I was having trouble getting into the places that paid more. Not that I looked for too long, I just took the first thing I could get. I've only been here a couple of months so it seems a bit like it might be dangerous (CV wise) to leave just yet, unfortunately. I know goons always say that CV gaps aren't too bad as long as it's not too frequent but I'm hesitant to jump ship so quickly with this being my first programming job. I can't imagine it reflecting well.
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Sep 15, 2014 17:46
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Tunga posted:Glassdoor is bullshit for the UK, I think it suffers from a lack of data points. Most people I know are on 40-60k. FWIW Bloomberg London were starting Senior Software Engineers on £90k four years ago.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:05
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Kenishi posted:I have no opinion or goal about staffing companies really. DICE just seems to be filled with them and I've ignored them. I was in Japan up till recent and worked at a what was basically a staffing company for teachers, probably no where near the same as software staffing. Gotcha. Yea I would try the normal recruiting run for a bit longer given your experience. You seem like a solid fit for a junior developer position assuming your github work checks out - that can get your foot in the door and afterwards no one will care what your major is in until you've been around for several more years and get to the level where the academic side of compsci becomes helpful again. If you have hang-ups about doing junior dev work you can also look for start-ups or any company small enough to not care about calling you a developer while you spend a few months cutting your teeth. Some unsolicited advice since you mentioned issues with your resume bites : make sure that your project work is highlighted. I would even go so far as to add descriptions & bold lines where what you did on a personal project aligns with skills/technologies mentioned in the job posting you're applying to. People who have portfolios of work and are independent learners usually interview well for junior dev positions (assuming your work is decent). Your major hurdle is getting some HR pre-screener who looks at a couple of skills/technology checkboxes to fwd your resume along to the next step.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:23
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TheresNoThyme posted:Gotcha. Yea I would try the normal recruiting run for a bit longer given your experience. You seem like a solid fit for a junior developer position assuming your github work checks out - that can get your foot in the door and afterwards no one will care what your major is in until you've been around for several more years and get to the level where the academic side of compsci becomes helpful again. So for someone like a "journeyman" level software developer without a degree, would you find it worthwhile to go back for a degree to help further a career? I have some programming training but the grind of all the core classes really turns me off of going back to school. Plus it's very expensive. It seems like some of those Berkeley free classes would suffice if you're OK with self-learning?
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Sep 15, 2014 23:27
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