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I looked around and I don't really see a thread for the discussion of current trends in tactics, strategy and match day preparation, other than one off posts in the general threads and maybe the OP of the Spain thread from the WC. So let's fix that. In my opinion it's a great time to discuss tactics/strategy etc. because there are some interesting things going on as everyone sorts out the Post-Guardiola world (WINGBACKS! PRESSING! POSSESSION IS MEANINGLESS!) which is kinda cool. Oh wait, Guardiola is still here? Weird. I'd prefer this not end up as a place where a) code tags are posted and b) advanced stats get thrown around, although each of these could have its place here. I would just hope they'd be used to supplement an interesting discussion. What would be nice to see are discussions on how your team plays (whether it's Manchester United or Hereford United) and why they play that way, discussions on how leagues as a whole are playing, and discussions on interesting developments that are just showing up. That would be cool. Anyway - First some resources: ZonalMarking.com - Haha j/k please no, just don't. Not saying it's always bad, but urg....go here instead: http://spielverlagerung.com/ Neville and Carragher https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=neville+carragher - Can't recommend these two guys enough. I'm a big Jonathan Northcroft fan, and I know some people may have issues with the Times but w/e. He does some good interview articles. Also some of his tweets are unintentionally funny. https://twitter.com/JNorthcroft quote:Jonathan Northcroft @JNorthcroft · Aug 31 Kevin Gates - a bit of a newcomer but I think he has some good things to say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3KHeaByfqg (a few cuss words) To kick things off let's talk Pressing. Pressing is a bit of a buzzword lately, but the idea of getting in on your man has been around forever. What's happening now is that clubs are really focusing on two aspects of putting pressure on the opponents - a) when it happens and b) why it happens. Of course c) how it happens is still important, but I don't want to get into that in this post (just look at the advanced stats image above, that should cover it). Maybe someone else can help here. For a) when it happens, teams have gotten very sophisticated about when they press. Teams like Atletico are now content to cede possession with the intent of actually letting the other side work the ball into a part of the field where deploying a press will be most successful. This is related to b) why it happens, as the whole point is to absorb the other team's offence, force them into passing into an area where a coordinated team press and counter will be most effective, and exploit this to regain possession in a shape and flow that's advantageous. This is a bit different from Barcelona-style "keep the ball at all costs and then press on turnovers to get the ball out in a passing lane where Biscuits can snag it so we can continue to keep the ball at all costs" and certainly different than the all out on the ball NOW! styles some teams have deployed through various pressing techniques. Supposedly Stoke City merked Man City last week by playing to Atletico's template, but I was too busy swearing at the screen to notice. If so, I think it's an exciting time as these sort of strategic decisions get copied all the time and I think there are worse playing philosophies that could be implemented across the major leagues. I'm not of a great mind so this is all pretty simple high level stuff and I would imagine some posters here have a lot more to contribute. I'm sure the Suqit triangles post will make it in here at some point, can't wait for that. Maybe one day this thread could get a gem of a post that replaces it. Earthy Ape Unit fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 12, 2014 |
# ? Sep 12, 2014 18:51 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:58 |
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Everyone read Inverting The Pyramid by Jonathan Wilson, it's cool and good and explains all kinds of stuff like why traditional shirt numbers are the way they are (and different in different countries) as well as giving a pretty comprehensive history of the development of football tactics from the birth of football in Other football books are available.
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 19:05 |
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At the end of the day its a game of two halves imo
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 22:51 |
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One thing I do know: it all evens out in the end.
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 22:55 |
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Pissflaps posted:One thing I do know: it all evens out in the end. I believe the correct quote is "something something 11 men simple game and at the end [Editor's note: and this next bit is the important part] Germany wins."
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 22:56 |
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I've written a few of these for money. quote:Roma’s Ultras held up a banner that read “Not knowing how to respond to defeat is worse than defeat itself” upon the side’s presentation to supporters on August 21st. They were referencing the side’s 1-0 loss to Lazio in the Coppa Italia final, the first steps of what they assumed was the destruction of a young but talented team, as well as the uninspired hiring of Rudi Garcia, who was resoundingly booed. It was assumed that Garcia would merely be the next to fly off the Benedetto consortium’s coaching carousel. In the carousel’s wake lay the mangled egos of Zdenek Zeman and Luis Enrique: men who I greatly admire, but found it difficult for their idealism to gain traction in the pragmatic landscape of today’s Serie A.
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 23:04 |
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quote:Louis Van Gaal promised change when he was made Manchester United manager. He suggested that a departure from the sadness of the previous nine months and a reversion to the confidence of the Sir Alex Ferguson era was in store. And all summer and preseason it looked like he’d delivered. The club brought in shiny new players that could work with his preferred 3-5-2 system, Luke Shaw and Ander Herrera, and they rolled through the competition in their preseason tour of the United States. But against Swansea on Saturday, United produced more of the same: inert possession and home disappointment.
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 23:10 |
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also everyone (in this case meaning Michael Cox, the zonal marking guy who wrote an article for ESPN about it) is trying to say that Stoke's performance was "Atletico" esque, but using defensive traps with 8 or 9 men behind the ball and then countering has been around as an idea forever and it's how some plucky underdog upsets a big team every year and why Martin O'neill's sides raped the big clubs. The only difference with Atletico is that, like Mourinho's Inter, they have the quality to put you to the sword when they recover possession.
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 23:26 |
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Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important that you make nice triangles
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# ? Sep 12, 2014 23:42 |
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My prognis.......prognastu....prenast...pra..prognostacist............prognostications for Man U's season are still not good.
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 00:43 |
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"The perfect football match ends in a 0-0 draw" - Xenophon, Anabasis, Chapter 15, pg 7. 420 BC
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 01:14 |
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You think that's possession you're counting?
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 01:19 |
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Call them and tell them that they are missing the subtlety. Instead of following the ball, follow the off ball movement. Look for triangles to appear, dissolve and then reappear right before your eyes. Watch as player's heads swivel to find the man making the run for the second pass, not the first. Watch the tight control and decision making. Don't appreciate the pass that was made, appreciate the pass that wasn't because it was more difficult and less likely to be successful. Watch the instant pressure applied once the ball is lost. Appreciate the monumental patience and discipline required to maintain possession without making foolish passes for long stretches. Realize that they are making things that are incredibly difficult to do both physically and tactically look so easy that it becomes boring.
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 01:22 |
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straight up brolic posted:I've written a few of these for money. Fully sick posting, thanks.
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 03:36 |
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Great thread and posts, enjoying the read.sebzilla posted:Everyone read Inverting The Pyramid by Jonathan Wilson, it's cool and good and explains all kinds of stuff like why traditional shirt numbers are the way they are (and different in different countries) as well as giving a pretty comprehensive history of the development of football tactics from the birth of football in
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 04:35 |
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its more of a history book that explain how formations evolved, its dry as hell and not very interesting because it never goes really deep on any subject
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 04:38 |
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daivd goldblatt's "the ball is round" is a better football history book imo
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 08:28 |
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straight up brolic posted:I've written a few of these for money. I'm quite a big fan of Rudi Garcia and if Belgium or a club I like (Everton) needed a new manager there wouldn't be many managers I'd like more. I mean, a young manager known for playing attractive and offensive football who got great results in good competitions with mediocre sides without spending much, what more could you want?
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# ? Sep 13, 2014 08:55 |
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quote:Gabby Agbonlahor’s winner for Villa against Liverpool could be aptly described as a “jammy corner goal”. The ball bounced off Phillippe Senderos’s coconut of a head, fell onto Gabby’s foot, deflected off Manquillo, and rolled into the far corner. But if you think back to before the corner, the goal, in its entirety, summed up Villa’s performance. straight up brolic fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Sep 14, 2014 |
# ? Sep 14, 2014 15:51 |
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I'd like to say I very much disagree with the idea that Villa had a 4-3-3-0 rather than a 4-3-3. It's exactly the same shape, just incredibly deep so there is no striker playing off the defenders, but instead running at them. That's hardly a strikerless formation though, it's just a team playing deep and trying to hit on the counter. That said, formations are almost entirely all fluid these days and trying to put them in code tags is a losing battle.
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# ? Sep 14, 2014 16:55 |
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Bogan Krkic posted:I'd like to say I very much disagree with the idea that Villa had a 4-3-3-0 rather than a 4-3-3. It's exactly the same shape, just incredibly deep so there is no striker playing off the defenders, but instead running at them. That's hardly a strikerless formation though, it's just a team playing deep and trying to hit on the counter. That said, formations are almost entirely all fluid these days and trying to put them in code tags is a losing battle.
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# ? Sep 14, 2014 17:06 |
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straight up brolic posted:lol that's just how that lovely lineup maker thing coded the lineups Well I look like an idiot now
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# ? Sep 14, 2014 17:31 |
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Just kick it up to the big lad and make sure you get stuck in. That's the formula for success.
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 00:42 |
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Mmm this is good stuff (both the sick brolic posts and Steve messing up)
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 01:17 |
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Villa did really well at isolating our fullbacks/centre backs all game. So many times Manquillo had to chase a long ball played in behind him and once he got it there was no option to do anything bar put it out for a throw in. The way to remedy that is to have a keeper be more confident and offer an outlet for a pass or have your defensive midfielder play deeper...unfortunately that's one of Mignolet's biggest weak points and in Gerrard we have a player that is probably not the most disciplined in his positioning and no longer has the engine to make up for it. Much was made about missing Sturridge and not starting Sterling but the biggest loss in that game was the lack of shape due to Joe Allen (or possible replacement Emre Can) not being available.
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 01:19 |
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Ewar Woowar posted:Much was made about missing Sturridge and not starting Sterling but the biggest loss in that game was the lack of shape due to Joe Allen (or possible replacement Emre Can) not being available.
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 02:52 |
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straight up brolic posted:Is Lucas dead or just out of the mix? He had a couple of really bad injuries and is not the player he once was. He's looked really slow and as a result gives away a tonne of free kicks. Gerrard's shift into a deeper lying midfielder has probably made him surplus to requirements really as having them both on the pitch at the same time has resulted in some of our poorest performances under Rodgers. Can is probably going to be preferred over him in the defensive midfielder role anyway as he's infinitely better physically and seems more comfortable on the ball.
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:39 |
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This really sums it up imo
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:52 |
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Get two really fast guys to be your strikers then park the bus with the other eight men. When you get the ball hoof it immediately down the field and let your strikers run after it. Score lots of goals and concede very little. Works for my rec league team.
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 04:32 |
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ephex posted:This really sums it up jesus trigger warning this poo poo
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 05:04 |
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ephex posted:This really sums it up the best part is he never showed anyone this note judging by how Norwich played under him
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 10:26 |
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Modus Trollens posted:the best part is he never showed anyone this note judging by how Norwich played under him Wow.
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 13:24 |
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I'm pretty sure that's Oxlade-Chamberlain and not Houghton mate
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 13:27 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:58 |
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Ninpo posted:Wow. I shouldn't post that early in the morning
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 13:29 |