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AlphaDog posted:*Even if you go 100% ToTM, it's a 10' wide passage and you occupy a 5' radius and there are two of you - it's crystal clear that nothing gets past until you let it or you die. ToTM (or even Player Skill: Chutzpah) could let you take your 5' out of the middle, allowing one fighter to block a 10' wide hallway!
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Sep 13, 2014 11:22
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RE: Champions, maybe they could be fixed by actually making them more 3.x? Just give them bonus feats, given the boost that feats seem to have got in 5e. Alright, they'd probably still be boring, but a few bonus feats (3-4, spread across the progression), might at least make them useful. Tempted to let Weaponmasters regain half their superiority dice whenever initative is rolled too.
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Sep 13, 2014 11:51
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LazyAngel posted:RE: Champions, maybe they could be fixed by actually making them more 3.x? Just give them bonus feats, given the boost that feats seem to have got in 5e. Alright, they'd probably still be boring, but a few bonus feats (3-4, spread across the progression), might at least make them useful. It's not immediately obvious, but fighters all get 2 extra ability score boosts or feats. they gain an extra one at level 6 and another at level 14.
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Sep 13, 2014 11:59
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Sorry for going a bit back, but...Strength of Many posted:Probably more anime than anyone here cares for but have at it http://imgur.com/a/4PZ6q As an anime apologist and generally an appreciator of rad arts I've gotta ask if there is any place to see more of your stuff? :>
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Sep 13, 2014 12:09
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Yakse posted:There's the feat/ability score to take into account(you could take something like savage attacker for higher average damage) and there's also 25% difference in the base weapon damage, which closes the gap more and more each time you get to roll the damage dice. I already factored in the weapon damage - the point is that the weapon damage is a small part of the damage you're doing per hit: Weapon + 3-5 Str + 2-4 Rage + 10 GWM Also, past a certain level you'll have all relevant damage feats and 20 in your main ability score, so saving the feat only contributes to front loading. Savage Attacker specifically is a very weak feat, as it's a 45% chance to increase your damage on 1 attack per turn and you're making 3 attacks. Also it's worth noting that as a level 9 Barbarian you only get 4 rages per day. You could carry both a Glaive and Maul in order to use Polearm Master's extra attack while not frenzying, however. Also, random thing I just noticed: a Wizard 18/Barbarian 1 can hypothetically permanently have 27 AC through a combination of Unarmoured Defence, Spell Mastery, Shield and a shield. You need to have 20 Dex and 20 Con, however, meaning it's probably only possible with (high) rolled stats and at the expense of other feats. Or, actually, more practical: a plain old Wizard 18/Life Cleric 1 can have 25 AC with Plate Armour + shield + Spell Mastery + Shield. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 12:10
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Spell Mastery is really cool and there seem to be a lot of choices in the 1st/2nd level spells for things you'd like to have all the time. Misty Step, Mirror Image, Invisibility, or Detect Thoughts at-will is ridiculous. I hadn't thought of Shield as a first-level one, though, that permanent +5 AC is pretty powerful.
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Sep 13, 2014 13:08
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Boing posted:Spell Mastery is really cool and there seem to be a lot of choices in the 1st/2nd level spells for things you'd like to have all the time. Misty Step, Mirror Image, Invisibility, or Detect Thoughts at-will is ridiculous. I hadn't thought of Shield as a first-level one, though, that permanent +5 AC is pretty powerful. Well, you can switch them every 8 hours (independent of rests, so not limited to once per 24 hours) 
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Sep 13, 2014 13:36
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Jack the Lad posted:Crossbow Expert at level 1, Sharpshooter at level 4, +Dex at levels 6 and 8. Fascinating, thanks!
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Sep 13, 2014 14:01
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It's amazing to me that the most viable Fighter build is the Arbalist using the Crossbow options. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that this was unintentional and there better not be some errata down the pipe that completely destroys this totally awesome build. The fact you can use some pretty choice Battlemaster Maneuvers with ranged weapons leads to some pretty neat results and I can see the grogs frothing at the mouth in anger over them. Double up Distracting Strike with Commanding Strike to both nail a due at range then let the Rogue attempt to Sneak Attack the same dude? Trip or Push at range? Both in the same round? Maneuvering attack at range to let the Rogue get into position for another sneak attack? Don't mind if I do, thanks! There's a lot more Warlord hanging around in this Fighter than I expected, honestly. Just a shame it eats up your Maneuver dice every encounter and short rests are anything but short by default. If and when I run 5E I'm just going to say for Fighters that they regenerate all their dice after ten minutes of rest and be done with it. They are obviously built to eat through their dice every encounter, and there is absolutely no reason mechanically why they shouldn't just gain them all back after a SHORT "short rest".
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Sep 13, 2014 15:36
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Ryuujin posted:Can't say for sure yet, also no idea if Ritorix is changing things. But so far we dealt with a bunch of cultists, first by disguising ourselves as cultists, then by taking some out in the smoke of their own attempt to burn a stone building. Of course I'm changing things. But it's still a pretty good adventure path so far. Anything that inspired a thousand word grog rant can't be all bad.
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Sep 13, 2014 16:30
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I'm playing with the idea of a Monk/Druid multiclass. It all depends on how Extra Attack interacts with Mutliattack from beast forms, of course. Open Palm Monk 6/Druid of the Moon 6+ because sure why not plus we want to save our handful of Ki points to fart out Flurry of Blows. The part that hurts is that Dex is terrible for every single combat beast entry we have so I'm going to assume you would use Strength for your Unarmed Strikes. ObMeiste posted:Sorry for going a bit back, but... http://badrobotart.tumblr.com/ I'm not responsible for your mental well being upon viewing. Like most artists I draw some pretty .. odd .. things. Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 22:59
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...More than Odd,  things yes. What was the inspiration on that one?And fuckin goddamnit put some damned muscle on your female drawings. The contrast between is terrible. So is Bow-kata fighter is definitely the highest DPR? Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 23:42
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Rigged Death Trap posted:So is Bow-kata fighter is definitely the highest DPR? Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter + hand crossbow, yes. You don't need to dual wield them though; hand crossbow + shield is optimal.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:29
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Jack the Lad posted:Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter + hand crossbow, yes. You don't need to dual wield them though; hand crossbow + shield is optimal. If you attack with a crossbow in one hand, it is no longer loaded, so it won't qualify to fire again from your feat bonus attack. The feat removes the loading property, but it still has the ammunition property, which makes reloading part of the attack. So it's not loaded yet, meaning you will have to use another one and skip the shield.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:43
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ritorix posted:If you attack with a crossbow in one hand, it is no longer loaded, so it won't qualify to fire again from your feat bonus attack. The feat removes the loading property, but it still has the ammunition property, which makes reloading part of the attack. So it's not loaded yet, meaning you will have to use another one and skip the shield. What stops the character from reloading after the attack? It's a crossbow, you don't have to start with it empty like with a bow or sling. You could run the Attack action as "fire-reload" instead of "load-fire" and it would seem to fit the rules, as reloading is now an incidental non-action that just sorta happens somewhere along the line. After all, you have to be able to reload after shots for multi-attacking with a crossbow to be possible for Fighters.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:49
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GenericServices posted:What stops the character from reloading after the attack? It's a crossbow, you don't have to start with it empty like with a bow or sling. You could run the Attack action as "fire-reload" instead of "load-fire" and it would seem to fit the rules, as reloading is now an incidental non-action that just sorta happens somewhere along the line. After all, you have to be able to reload after shots for multi-attacking with a crossbow to be possible for Fighters. Ammo reloading rules are built into the Ammunition property of weapons. There is the whole 'interact with an object around you' thing you can do during your action, so that should be enough to cover reloading it, though in the giant list of things on PHB 190 reloading isn't listed. With the way Loading property is worded, it wouldn't even have stopped a bonus action shot. It stops Extra Attacks on the same action. So they either added that bit about needing a preloaded weapon because they wanted to stop xbow+shield or they didn't understand their own rules.
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Sep 14, 2014 01:03
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ritorix posted:Ammo reloading rules are built into the Ammunition property of weapons. There is the whole 'interact with an object around you' thing you can do during your action, so that should be enough to cover reloading it, though in the giant list of things on PHB 190 reloading isn't listed. I would sooner assume the latter than the former.
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Sep 14, 2014 01:10
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ritorix posted:Ammo reloading rules are built into the Ammunition property of weapons. There is the whole 'interact with an object around you' thing you can do during your action, so that should be enough to cover reloading it, though in the giant list of things on PHB 190 reloading isn't listed. I'm expecting errata on the matter at some point. I've been poking around and it's something of a heated discussion topic in a number of places. I rather like the idea, myself, but mostly because I want to see a team of adventurers with shields and hand-bows breaching goblin caves and bellowing, "TOWN WATCH, FREEZE!"
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Sep 14, 2014 01:25
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GenericServices posted:I'm expecting errata on the matter at some point. I've been poking around and it's something of a heated discussion topic in a number of places. I rather like the idea, myself, but mostly because I want to see a team of adventurers with shields and hand-bows breaching goblin caves and bellowing, "TOWN WATCH, FREEZE!" I'm still baffled by the outrage people feel over things like this compared to, you know, Wizard existing at all. The last game session I played in as a PC we had two casters skullfuck an entire room of enemies* with Sleep and Shatter before they could even react. And that's at low levels. I don't want to think about how it'll go at higher levels. *Ironically this included two enemy spellcasters. Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 01:32
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Haha yeah I just checked GITP and there's a 9-page argument about this. But I think this is the correct interpretation, a fighter with Extra Attack shooting with the feat: Action Crossbow Attack (Ammunition Property loads) Crossbow Attack (Ammunition Property loads) [Once-per-round to reload crossbow] Bonus Action Crossbow Attack In which case you could use a shield too.
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Sep 14, 2014 01:34
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ritorix posted:Haha yeah I just checked GITP and there's a 9-page argument about this. But I think this is the correct interpretation, a fighter with Extra Attack shooting with the feat: So they're bickering over semantics. Great. Its not even that absurd when you account for the HP bloat a lot of monsters have.
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Sep 14, 2014 01:37
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GenericServices posted:I rather like the idea, myself, but mostly because I want to see a team of adventurers with shields and hand-bows breaching goblin caves and bellowing, "TOWN WATCH, FREEZE!" I love it.  If only we could get some more anachronistic martial gear to make Rainbow Six: Waterdeep a reality.
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Sep 14, 2014 02:08
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Given grog racism and them sharing suburban white america's collective boner for brutalizing others with riot gear, I can see how you would sell it.
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Sep 14, 2014 02:23
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At a certain point it'd just be wizards who have nothing but sleep prepared, no? How do monster knowledge checks work in Next? I had the Ranger roll vs the Monster's AC to recognise it. (It was a Grick so those are common I guess? :S)
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Sep 14, 2014 02:25
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Cassa posted:At a certain point it'd just be wizards who have nothing but sleep prepared, no? You mean "Cloudkill". (We meant to use Stinking Cloud, seriously!)
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Sep 14, 2014 02:30
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I'm gonna throw out a few comments about things that have come up the last couple of pages since I'm super late to this party. Plz don't hate. -I think Champion would be of more interest to a Half Orc Fighter/Barbarian cross class that wanted to focus on crits. 3 levels of fighter would double your chance to get those juicy (up to) 5d12 bonus damage crits and let you reroll the 1s and 2s. It works out to rather small DPS (disregarding action surge) Barbarian 20 (savage attack + brutal crit), but it makes crits show up twice as often and crits feel good so you feel twice as good playing the character. I'm pretty sure they only put champion in the game to give a fighter variant that's only worth dipping. Ya know, tradition and all. -I really don't understand what they were thinking with the exhaustion rules for poor frenzy barbs and it makes me sad. Feels like something other than rest, potions, or Greater Restoration should be able to reduce exhaustion or that it should at least go down more quickly. I'd definitely house rule something different. -I haven't played it at higher levels, but I think blade pact warlock is super fun and contributes really well. Armor of Agathys can have a surprising amount of damage output, especially against mooks, but it's of no use when you're at a range. Also, when combined with Dark One's Blessing shoots your survivability way up and you can soak up quite a bit of damage without needing any healing. You don't really have to sacrifice much of any eldritch blast damage to make it work, either, so you can switch hit quite well. It also gives you a workable fallback for when you end up engaged in melee, if you don't want to play an up front. Oh and a magical weapon at level 3 is nice, since, from what I've seen so far, those are quite a bit harder to come by early on than in previous versions. -It makes me unreasonably happy to hear that crossbows actually work out quite well this edition. I've always wanted to play a crossbow sniper for some reason, and between 5e and Pathfinder's Advanced Class Guide and its horribly written but fun Bolt Ace, I may make that happen soon. And a few comments about things unrelated to the last few pages: -I've seen a lot of ranger hate around the internet (idk if ya'll dislike them too), but at least at level 6, the ranger in our homebrew campaign has been invaluable. Pass without Trace giving the entire party a +10 stealth check for an hour is super drat helpful, he contributes well with his array of skills, and does well in combat. -Sorcerer was a hard sell, but I'm rather enjoying it now that I'm playing it. Wild Magic is fun. After casting a fireball the other week, I ended up immune to the effects of alcohol for 15 days and have been thoroughly enjoying winning drinking competitions at various taverns. I wish they would have found a way to port over the random caster level stuff too, but I'm still very satisfied, and I have no regrets, even if I do end up exploding the whole group. The luck manipulation abilities are fun to play with and have come in very handy, too. Metamagic is suitably powerful, though I wish it were slightly less limited in use. It's looking to me like the concentration mechanic and other nerfs to spell casters in this edition have done a good job decreasing the gap without ruining the fun of being a spell caster, though I suppose level 6 is a little early to tell. -On that note, I've found our 5e campaign running much more smoothly than the Pathfinder campaigns we've had in the past, and I think the rules are much easier for new players to grasp. 3 of the guys I'm playing with haven't played a whole lot of RPGs before, and they struggled with the Pathfinder rules the entire time when we played a campaign for a couple of months a while back, but have become adept at the 5e rules almost immediately. Strength of Many posted:I'm still baffled by the outrage people feel over things like this compared to, you know, Wizard existing at all. I've had a lot less luck with save or sucks, honestly. Sleep affects a very limited number of hit points, which generally corresponds to at most 2-3 monsters even at low levels, and the DCs are far more passable in 5e. Is there a rule/trick/etc I'm missing or did you just have good rolls?
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Sep 14, 2014 03:28
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AlphaDog posted:You mean "Cloudkill". Well I'd hope the constabulary wouldn't immediately choose lethal force. But hey, accidents happen and you know what half orcs are like.
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Sep 14, 2014 03:41
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Dairy Power posted:-I haven't played it at higher levels, but I think blade pact warlock is super fun and contributes really well. Armor of Agathys can have a surprising amount of damage output, especially against mooks, but it's of no use when you're at a range. Also, when combined with Dark One's Blessing shoots your survivability way up and you can soak up quite a bit of damage without needing any healing. You don't really have to sacrifice much of any eldritch blast damage to make it work, either, so you can switch hit quite well. It also gives you a workable fallback for when you end up engaged in melee, if you don't want to play an up front. Oh and a magical weapon at level 3 is nice, since, from what I've seen so far, those are quite a bit harder to come by early on than in previous versions. Armor of Agathys seems pretty terrible. It's only enough damage to kill a kobold and 5THP won't go very far. Temp HP don't stack, so you will actually lose your Armor's THP (and the entire spell) if you take Dark Blessing THP instead. The False Life invocation is actually decent, as long as you don't have someone providing leadership feat THP in your party. You can continually recast FL until you get the full 8 THP. This eventually gets overshadowed by Dark One's Blessing (Cha bonus + warlock level, so up to 25THP) and I would only take it if not fiend pact.
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Sep 14, 2014 03:56
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ritorix posted:Armor of Agathys seems pretty terrible. It's only enough damage to kill a kobold and 5THP won't go very far. Temp HP don't stack, so you will actually lose your Armor's THP (and the entire spell) if you take Dark Blessing THP instead. As a level 1 spell, I agree, Armor of Agathys is fairly mediocre. I think it's one of the few spells that actually scales favorably with level, though. For example, at level 3 you cast it as a level 2 spell. Now you have 10 THP. The average hit from one of your mooks is less than 10 (1d8+3 is fairly common at that level IIRC, so only a 25% chance to only do damage once assuming you don't take ranged hits), so you're quite likely to get off 20 damage with it. Compare that to casting scorching ray. 2d6 per touch attack for 3 attacks, so an average of 21 damage, assuming all 3 hit. Generally, you'll be at about a 60% chance to hit at best, so, really you're looking at like 12-15 expected damage. So, you frequently end up doing similar or potentially more damage with Armor of Agathys, you can cast it before the battle begins, and it soaks some hits. Not saying that it's definitely a better spell for a second level slot or anything, but, it can keep up with a sorc/wiz spell of equal level for damage in a fairly common situation and has it's obvious utility, too. I didn't realize it would work out so well until I actually played with it, honestly. I picked it up just to go for something thematic, and it ended up netting me a couple of kills essentially passively, so I kept using it. That was for organized play that I'm not doing any more, so I'm not sure how it would continue to scale, but I'd imagine well given that damage per hit scales rather slowly in 5e. Edit: I was mainly thinking about things with class levels there. If you're fighting a Cyclops at level 7 and spend a slot casting it for the 20hp buffer/damage, it'll probably not end up nearly as nice. Though, it's still a fairly nice bonus given how warlock spell slots work and the other options you have available imo. I think even on higher level play, having 25 temp HP to get you going while you wait on Dark One's Blessing to refill it and an extra 0-50 damage that didn't require an action in combat would be one of the more helpful choices you could make with your slots. Dairy Power fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 04:27
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Dairy Power posted:Armour of Agathys Discussion I agree, Armour of Agathys is great in encounters with things that hit often/lots of weak-hitting things, since the damage is a flat number and doesn't require an action (if cast in advance). It is not inconceivable that a 25 health shield will absorb 2-3 blows and deal 50-75 damage in return at level 9. However, it does definitely suck at level 1.
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Sep 14, 2014 07:03
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The crotch bulge isn't big enough.
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Sep 14, 2014 07:18
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So I got the starter kit and I am having a hard time finding people to play with. I've got two friends that are down and I keep jumping between two other people who've canceled on me twice. Should I just go ahead and try to find two other people on roll20 and play this thing online? Should I dungeon master? I feel that I could with this starter kit.
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Sep 14, 2014 07:58
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Just to emphasise: crits are a trap and statistically add very little to your DPR. More importantly they add damage at random, which means you might well bust out that 6d6 crit on a kobold with 5 HP.
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Sep 14, 2014 09:14
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Serdain posted:I agree, Armour of Agathys is great in encounters with things that hit often/lots of weak-hitting things, since the damage is a flat number and doesn't require an action (if cast in advance). It is not inconceivable that a 25 health shield will absorb 2-3 blows and deal 50-75 damage in return at level 9. However, it does definitely suck at level 1. I could also see it being good if you somehow worked resistance into the situation, like by casting Blade Ward. That would double the lifespan of your Armor. If you could manage heavy armor mastery on top somehow (start as a A cleric 1/warlock x with heavy armor, shield, heavy armor master, blade ward and armor of agathys would be tanky as hell. Get wrath of the storm to do even more damage to things attacking you, and get spell slots that work with your Armor spell. Or Life domain and use with stuff like Vampiric Touch. ritorix fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 09:58
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Fighter SWAT Team seems pretty cool. Tower shields, black armour, ignoring the pleas of unarmed Goblins before shooting them in the back. Unrelated to this, our PF campaign ended up winding down after the DM finally grew weary of the party Cleric invalidating encounters/the rest of the party. He wants to start up again potentially in 5e, because he'd heard it had less of the tier stuff which meant that if you picked a Rogue you were useless after level 3. Do we know at this juncture if 5e has PC Balance, or anything approaching it? I'm a bit leery of making another 'martial' class if in order to be viable I have to do a gimmicky build or if my job will become 'Coup de grâce the things the wizard disabled".
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Sep 14, 2014 13:09
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WAR FOOT posted:Fighter SWAT Team seems pretty cool. Tower shields, black armour, ignoring the pleas of unarmed Goblins before shooting them in the back. Fighters still attack, attack, attack and wizards still end encounters with their spells.
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Sep 14, 2014 13:20
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It's a little sad to me that seemingly the best way to play a Warlock is Warlock2/Anything Else18
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Sep 14, 2014 14:17
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I am going to level up this Fighter with no other levels in anything else and using a Maul even if it kills me by how good a crossbow-wielding fighter is. I can't wait till I hit level 3 so I can get Superiority Dice. Still not as cool as the stuff in 4e, but organized play for 4e is over 
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Sep 14, 2014 14:47
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Power Player posted:I am going to level up this Fighter with no other levels in anything else and using a Maul even if it kills me by how good a crossbow-wielding fighter is. I can't wait till I hit level 3 so I can get Superiority Dice. Still not as cool as the stuff in 4e, but organized play for 4e is over If you're going melee at least use a Glaive for Polearm Master 
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Sep 14, 2014 15:10
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Jack the Lad posted:If you're going melee at least use a Glaive for Polearm Master Edit: Should I get to 20 strength first or just go for Polearm Master first time I get an ability score? Power Player fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 16:00
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