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The Cameo posted:That's mostly because they both have the same inspiration point, which is the crazy tank Batmobile of Dark Knight Returns. Snyder's is just going more direct with it, minus the staggering size (because presumably they'll always make the Batmobile a practical, drivable thing and driving a literal, actual tank through city streets would be pressing a certain button too much). And yet the best batmobile is still the biggest one yet. 
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Sep 12, 2014 04:54
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MonsieurChoc posted:And yet the best batmobile is still the biggest one yet. That show's ending still gives me rage quivers whenever I remember it.
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Sep 12, 2014 05:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:And yet the best batmobile is still the biggest one yet. That actually is the best Batmobile, I agree.
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Sep 12, 2014 05:28
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I know this sounds like a big long rambling observation, but one thing I've sort of felt is that era from the late 80s to the mid-late 90s you got 'comic book movies' that seemed to be very campy and stylish, several films set as period pieces or with a style of an era (mostly in the 30s-40s), with a more classic pulp and comic strip inspired characters, too, instead of comic book inspired: Brenda Starr*, The Shadow, The Phantom, Dick Tracy, Rocketeer**, even Addams Family. Most all of those getting big budgets, big names and big hype attached to them. On the other hand, in this same window prior to the end of the 90s, lookign at the comic book superhero-type characters to get movies, you have things like TMNT, Punisher, Capt. America and the Fantastic Four. Of those, only one was successful, two were direct to video and the last was never officially released if I remember. You also had the waning days of the Superman films like Superman 4, Supergirl and the Superman-derived Steel. Indie and relatively non-superhero comics titles (in the US, at least) like Judge Dredd, Tank Girl, Men in Black and the Mask similarly got made into films, with only two of those being more or less successful, by and large. Overall, though, almost everything era was a flop and/or poorly received. Superheroes and anything comics outside of Batman must have looked absolutely toxic by the end of it and even that eventually went bad. Since then, there seemed to be a really big step away from the camp factor of that era and really trying to make things more serious, grounded and mature. Failing that, just replacing the camp with quirk and quips. **Although Starr was apparently filmed before the Burton Batman released, and Rocketeer was based on a comic book. adventuring superhero
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Sep 12, 2014 07:18
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The MSJ posted:I wouldn't mind Anthony Mackie replacing Chris Evans. He's cool. He actually makes more sense, as a character to do that. Sam Wilson's whole deal is a moral code similar to Steve Rogers' that compels him to serve. His personal stake in the conflict in Winter Soldier is pretty much nonexistent, but he joins of his own volition because he believes it's the right thing to do (actually, literally to fight Nazis.) He and Steve's similarity is built up like the relationship in a romantic comedy: they have a meet-cute in the first scene, and as Steve struggles to make friends or find allies in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s impersonal glass-and-steel world, this organic connection he has with this other old-fashioned guy is shown to "just feel right." They're the same person, or maybe a perfect couple. The scene where Steve goes down to the VA pretty efficiently sells the idea. Everything the villains do is built around bureaucracy, mechanization, automation...everything is cold tones, greys and whites, and modern minimalist design. But the VA office, Sam's world, is warm-toned, adorned with wood, and built to facilitate human connection (specifically, group therapy for soldiers.) Sam is even dressed like Steve, in a patterned button-up and khakis. He embodies a similar populism and a similar working-class humility, as externalized by these markers. It's thus not confusing when Sam "joins the cause," because of course he would. In terms of what "Captain America" represents in these films, Sam as a character is way more consistent with what Steve is about. Meanwhile, Bucky is about entirely different stuff. Firstly, he literally embodies the mechanization and automation of HYDRA: he's a programmed automaton with a cyborg arm. But in a broader sense, his long unkempt hair and sunken eyes (and amputee body and even Cold War iconography) are meant to evoke a Vietnam vet, dehumanized by violence and utterly traumatized. He's pretty much something across between Jason Bourne and Wolverine, as a "superhero" made in a lab through intense violation of his personhood. If they're going to make him "the next Captain America," that's fine...but it would need to do justice to the grittier, more critical nature of his storyline. Asking Sam to join up and fight feels appropriate in light of the hokey Greatest Generation conceit of the current franchise. But asking the same of Bucky is a tragic act; he's barely a man anymore, his humanity having been stripped by cynical and corrupt government. If he gets the shield, it means yet another ghoul of state power is pulling him back in - in fact, literally adorning him in their flag as a propaganda tool. That could be a great movie if they were self-aware about these things, but it would be tonally *completely* different. Or should be. Which is why I think they should make movies about Bucky that do explore these themes, but give the "Captain America" mantle to Sam to maintain the symbolic meaning the past 2 films have already built up. Xealot fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 09:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:And yet the best batmobile is still the biggest one yet.   Man they really simplified the animation as the show went on, didn't they?
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Sep 12, 2014 10:18
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Cardboard Box A posted:Man they really simplified the animation as the show went on, didn't they?
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Sep 12, 2014 10:21
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Xealot posted:He actually makes more sense, as a character to do that. Sam Wilson's whole deal is a moral code similar to Steve Rogers' that compels him to serve. His personal stake in the conflict in Winter Soldier is pretty much nonexistent, but he joins of his own volition because he believes it's the right thing to do (actually, literally to fight Nazis.) He and Steve's similarity is built up like the relationship in a romantic comedy: they have a meet-cute in the first scene, and as Steve struggles to make friends or find allies in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s impersonal glass-and-steel world, this organic connection he has with this other old-fashioned guy is shown to "just feel right." They're the same person, or maybe a perfect couple. If the assumed plan is to kill Rodgers in Cap 3 or Avengers 3, with Bucky taking over, I think Sam would be a good way to help Bucky become what Steve is. Bucky in Winter Soldier isn't even really Bucky. He's a brainwashed mess turned into a killing machine. WW2 Bucky could easily have taken up the mantle of Captain America, but I could definitely see this Bucky choosing it to keep the memory of his only friend alive, after a big heaping dose of character growth.
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Sep 12, 2014 11:57
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cams posted:I believe that for the last season, Adult Swim actually paid to have the show continued or something check wikipedia who knows I remember being in high school when the final episode aired. Adult Swim started playing the penultimate episode again and then let it play for a couple minutes before cutting in with a "Haha got you" and played the finale.
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Sep 12, 2014 16:34
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I can easily see them offing Rhodey in Avengers 2 if it's true that they aren't doing another RDJ IM solo film.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:44
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The list of non major characters is pretty short to kill off. I really don't see who they could kill off besides Pepper.
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Sep 12, 2014 19:16
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Xealot posted:He actually makes more sense, as a character to do that. Sam Wilson's whole deal is a moral code similar to Steve Rogers' that compels him to serve. His personal stake in the conflict in Winter Soldier is pretty much nonexistent, but he joins of his own volition because he believes it's the right thing to do (actually, literally to fight Nazis.) He and Steve's similarity is built up like the relationship in a romantic comedy: they have a meet-cute in the first scene, and as Steve struggles to make friends or find allies in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s impersonal glass-and-steel world, this organic connection he has with this other old-fashioned guy is shown to "just feel right." They're the same person, or maybe a perfect couple. Good poo poo. I agree they'll need to do some serious character work in Cap 3 if they want us to buy Bucky as Steve's successor. I'm watching an abridged episode run of Agents of SHIELD (skipping episodes unnecessary to understanding the plot, and the last one I've seen so far is TRACKS), and while the character work is abysmal outside Coulson and J. August Richards' character (but that's due to strong acting, not good writing), knowing the twist in advance really benefits the show. There's no loving way the showrunners didn't know ahead of time what was going to go down in The Winter Soldier. SHIELD is portrayed as cold and mechanical, and they make a serious point in "The Hub" about the disposable nature of lower clearance SHIELD agents. Of course, too, it's profoundly disturbing what SHIELD does to Mike Peterson. Of course HYDRA does worse later, but it's still totally hosed that they've continued using this poor screwed up single dad as a weapon. It makes them no better than "Centipede". They say it's to make him a hero, but it's hard to believe them given the behavior of Agent Hand in "The Hub". Plus, of course what SHIELD did to Coulson, not only using him as propaganda to rally the Avengers, but then doing horrific science poo poo to resurrect him, further exposes their morally bankrupt nature. And THIS in particular can't even be laid on HYDRA, because Nick Fury did it. I've also been reading reviews of the episodes at the AV Club, mostly to fill in gaps. But in reading reviews of the episodes I watched, the reviewer unintentionally takes SHIELD's side, and disparages Skye for undermining the mission. But Skye is the only member of the team with a true ethical commitment to doing good because she understands that "trust the system" is nonsense. Coulson tries to tame her anarchism, incorporating it into SHIELD's operation. Her occasional rule breaking is permitted so long as it does not truly threaten SHIELD. This is similar to how capitalism absorbs its critics. Coulson lures her in with knowledge, promising to help find her origin. Yet, he continues lying to her, rationalizing that some secrets are better left secret. In "The Magical Place", Skye roleplays as a badass SHIELD agent in order to use a computer (she has a bracelet on that shuts down any electronic devices she might try to use because SHIELD doesn't trust her). She gets results by bullying several people into compliance, imitating the behavior she's seen from Coulson, May, and Ward. it is profoundly disturbing, and shows her domestication, as she seems utterly comfortable imitating May. Hell, she even tells the guys she holds at gunpoint that her name is Agent May. Furthermore, May seems to reject her when she lets her be kicked off the plane, but it's just a gambit to give Skye the freedom to utilize "acceptable chaos". This is, in a nutshell, Coulson's team. They operate with "fake autonomy". They don't play by the rules, but DAMMIT, they get results. However, in a more profound sense, they still do play by the rules. The stupid thing that AV Club reviewer does is assume that Skye's assimilation into the culture of SHIELD is a good thing. Even the show, if you're watching carefully, suggests otherwise. And of course, given the events of Winter Soldier, Skye's initial skepticism is vindicated. SHIELD was, all along, a shield not for protection, but for concealment. Anyone else who hasn't, and is interested in the Marvel Cinematic Universe's deeper meanings should at least watch a few episodes of Agents of SHIELD. The pilot, "Eye Spy", "The Hub", "The Bridge", "The Magical Place", "TRACKS", and I'm told almost every subsequent episode is decent. I checked the thread in TVIV and there's little analysis of it going on. Disappointing.
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Sep 12, 2014 19:21
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cams posted:I believe that for the last season, Adult Swim actually paid to have the show continued or something check wikipedia who knows Yeah, the 2nd season was made in Canada iirc.
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Sep 12, 2014 20:03
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I... didn't even know we had any kind of animation industry up here. There's schools, sure, but most of the actual animation gets farmed out to Japan or Korea.
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Sep 12, 2014 20:09
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I like how Batman got everywhere by strolling purposefully. Also the psycho smirk when the bomb is revealed. Keaton in general did a good job of playing Bruce Wayne as a sort-of stunted maniac.
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Sep 12, 2014 22:16
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Vermain posted:I... didn't even know we had any kind of animation industry up here. There's schools, sure, but most of the actual animation gets farmed out to Japan or Korea. The polar bear of the Nelvana logo never tipped you off? You didn't watch Reboot?
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Sep 13, 2014 02:24
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Vermain posted:I... didn't even know we had any kind of animation industry up here. There's schools, sure, but most of the actual animation gets farmed out to Japan or Korea. You gave us Heavy Metal man. 
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Sep 13, 2014 03:52
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Lobok posted:The polar bear of the Nelvana logo never tipped you off? You didn't watch Reboot? I actually totally forgot about Mainframe, for some strange reason. I was mostly thinking of traditional animation studios.
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Sep 13, 2014 04:22
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Cardboard Box A posted:The Big O is technically not a batmobile, really, but The Griffon is still the best batmobile, yes: What the gently caress show is this?
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Sep 13, 2014 15:44
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:What the gently caress show is this? Big O
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Sep 13, 2014 15:46
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Bongo Bill posted:Big O It was produced by some of the Japanese people who worked on Batman the Animated Series. The show is kind of Bruce Wayne doesn't wear a costume but instead got a giant robot from the 60s/70s. And is also a louse. Also has a catchy opening.
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Sep 13, 2014 16:14
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Wow, Flash Gordon much?
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Sep 13, 2014 16:22
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Am I wrong in thinking that action movies have been "themed" in each decade? In the 80s and 90s we had the Stallone/Willis/Arnold etc movies where the singlehandedly fight off terrorists or evil communists. Sometime in the mid 90s those blockbuster "kill the commies" movies slowed and action movies with Sci if elements like Independence Day, Jurassic Park and the Matrix replaced them and now we have spent 15 years with comic book movies on top? Are there any trend of themed action movies looking to replace comic book movies or did those just successful manage to incorporate the previous themes into mega successful movies? I'm not even sure I worded the last paragraph well, but I hope my question made a little sense.
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Sep 13, 2014 16:37
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Pillowpants posted:Am I wrong in thinking that action movies have been "themed" in each decade?
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Sep 13, 2014 16:45
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The Dave posted:Wow, Flash Gordon much? Hahaha, you're right.
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Sep 13, 2014 16:47
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TetsuoTW posted:Art and entertainment tend to reflect society and its concerns. Basically. Also, a change in target audience, adults alone simply don't do it anymore, so you need to have the child and teen audience. But the problem with that is that, to get your movie to a PG-13, you can't realyl have the over-the-top violence that were one of the main draw of action movies. However, with superheroes, nobody compalains if your protagonits doesn't slaughter hundreds of faceless mooks, or you can make them robots or aliens or something else inhuman.
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Sep 13, 2014 16:53
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TetsuoTW posted:Art and entertainment tend to reflect society and its concerns.
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Sep 13, 2014 18:22
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Hazo posted:See also: The recent slew of "White House falls to terrorists" movies (Olympus Has Fallen, White House Down) GI Joe: Rise of Cobra fits this list, too.
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Sep 13, 2014 18:30
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Hazo posted:See also: The recent slew of "White House falls to terrorists" movies (Olympus Has Fallen, White House Down) I dunno if two films counts as a slew but there are lot of cities getting blown up these days. Moreso than usual it seems.
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Sep 13, 2014 18:31
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I dunno if two films counts as a slew but there are lot of cities getting blown up these days. Moreso than usual it seems. Urban combat will obviously resonate with the trauma of 9/11.
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Sep 13, 2014 18:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Urban combat will obviously resonate with the trauma of 9/11. It's more than that; traditionally conflict is set far away from civilization (the Western Frontier, Afghanistan, etc) or civilization is abstracted away to be an incidental casualty (e.g., Alderaan is blown up but as an example of the Empire's might, the whole Phantom Menace Naboo thing). What we're seeing now are fights that take place in urban areas, specifically places the protagonists call home (Like San Francisco in Star Trek: Into Darkness, or just Vulcan in ST09). The conflict is now within ourselves, instead of with "The baddies".
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Sep 13, 2014 18:58
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computer parts posted:It's more than that; traditionally conflict is set far away from civilization (the Western Frontier, Afghanistan, etc) or civilization is abstracted away to be an incidental casualty (e.g., Alderaan is blown up but as an example of the Empire's might, the whole Phantom Menace Naboo thing). Not a film student or critic, but I've also been noticing a trend of "We're responsible for making the bad guys possible/who they are" lately, from Skyfall to Pacific Rim to Iron Man 3.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:29
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Vargo posted:GI Joe: Rise of Cobra fits this list, too. I would say, the sequel is better in that regard. Rise of Cobra only ends with Zartan taking over the White House. But I wouldn't recommend you watch Retaliation. It was super boring. It also has one of the most callous mass murder scenes I've ever seen. Millions of people died. Yet no one in the film gave a poo poo. Even the movie itself didn't give a poo poo, because it never went back to it. gently caress that movie.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:38
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Cythereal posted:Not a film student or critic, but I've also been noticing a trend of "We're responsible for making the bad guys possible/who they are" lately, from Skyfall to Pacific Rim to Iron Man 3. It's vaguely troubling that both Iron Man 3 and Star Trek: Into Darkness have plots that revolve around false flag attacks and came out within a couple months of each other.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:39
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GI Joe: Retaliation is amazing; the fact that all of London is vaporized and no one (not even British government officials) seems to acknowledge that it happened five minutes later is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to how crazy and ridiculous that film is.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:44
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HorseRenoir posted:GI Joe: Retaliation is amazing; the fact that all of London is vaporized and no one (not even British government officials) seems to acknowledge that it happened five minutes later is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to how crazy and ridiculous that film is. Personally, I love that part of the movie. Cobra Commander is in full scenery chewing comic book supervillain actively taking over the world mode, he just deployed his unstoppable superweapon, and it's all just fun that you're not supposed to take seriously. quote:It's vaguely troubling that both Iron Man 3 and Star Trek: Into Darkness have plots that revolve around false flag attacks and came out within a couple months of each other. See also: Captain America 2.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:46
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Cythereal posted:Not a film student or critic, but I've also been noticing a trend of "We're responsible for making the bad guys possible/who they are" lately, from Skyfall to Pacific Rim to Iron Man 3. You also definitely have a trend away from evil government agents and too much government power post 911. It's of course not absolute, but the US government and its (secret) law enforcement agencies got a lot more sympathetic in the early '00s.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:49
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HorseRenoir posted:GI Joe: Retaliation is amazing; the fact that all of London is vaporized and no one (not even British government officials) seems to acknowledge that it happened five minutes later is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to how crazy and ridiculous that film is. Oh, it's funny. But it's also a terrible, terrible, terrible thing. I know it's a dumb silly movie, but come on. If you want me to take things, even a little bit seriously, don't ruin a moment like that. No matter how silly the Bond movies got, the threat was always credible. Even Ghostbusters, Gozer isn't something to gently caress with. If she/he/it was some silly slapstick monster, it wouldn't have worked. I don't like that poo poo. It makes the movie seem toneless and lovely. Unless the goal is to be a 100% parody, which GI JOE was not. Despite it's subject matter. And no, I have no relation, or don't care about the comics/toys whatever. I just would prefer to have some weight when you senselessly murder millions of people in a movie. Other wise, it disconnects me entirely from everything that was happening. (Although, I was bored out of my mind within 15 minutes of the movie)
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Sep 13, 2014 20:52
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e X posted:You also definitely have a trend away from evil government agents and too much government power post 911. It's of course not absolute, but the US government and its (secret) law enforcement agencies got a lot more sympathetic in the early '00s. Maybe in the Bush years but that's literally the plot of Star Trek: ID and Captain America 2. Meanwhile, pre-9/11 you had plenty of sympathetic portrayals of the government (ID4) or pseudo-government agencies (Men in Black). e: Actually the Star Wars prequels were frequently commented on as being parallels to Bush (at least Ep II and III). computer parts fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 20:56
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Do people still read Dark Knight as glorifying Bush/neocons? I've gotten the impression (at least here) that it's more often seen as condemning them.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:12
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