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computer parts posted:It could be a neighboring planet; if you're going to lock away an entire planet it's probably a good idea to not be standing on it. The Last of the Time Lords (except all those ones on planets outside Gallifrey that you can go to). Kind of removes the pathos a bit. Psybro posted:Killing off companions had technically been done before if you count Sara Kingdom, and gruesomely at that, but the Doctor is so drat powerless in a lot of the story and his TARDIS and companions get drawn right into the centre of the danger. People always forget Katarina Regarde Aduck posted:No. No you don't do this poo poo here. This isn't the UK thread where you piss yourself and cry because someone used a gendered insult. This is the doctor who thread for straight men with big virile balls. Also you're a oval office and so's Basil Brush. Go buy me a BRCT over it (so I can get the next in the series of Basiltars)
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Sep 15, 2014 10:13
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Craptacular! posted:If they cast a woman as this Doctor would all this talk of insults still happen? It's not like he doesn't needle Clara all the drat time, anyhow. She's having a date night which often heightens vain behaviors, so his usual jabs take on the twist of insulting her vanity. I have no problem with the Doctor insulting Clara. It's the fact that in every episode they've been obnoxious comments about her looks. Call her headstrong and brash, call her abrasive, call her high strung, call her a know-it-all. When she gives the Doctor another schoolteacher lecture about hope or morality or whatever the gently caress else have him say "thanks, mom!" All of these speak to her character, and could lead to some really fun bickering between them. Hell, he can insult her looks occasionally too. But it starts to be a little #Problematic™ (please reblog) when in every episode he's put down her looks. Besides, even independent of the niggling social issues regarding women and insecurity about their appearance, personally I think it's just plain obnoxious and a dumb schtick. It got kind of boring and samey when 11 kept using the same two jokes on Rory too. (Yes, we get it, Amy is your BFF and you'll only ever view Rory as an accessory to Amy's company. It was only funny the first 20 times) Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 10:19
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Can anybody point out to me any times other than in Listen that Twelve made jabs about Clara's appearance? I'm not doubting they exist, I just don't remember them.Jsor posted:It got kind of boring and samey when 11 kept using the same two jokes on Rory too. (Yes, we get it, Amy is your BFF and you'll only ever view Rory as an accessory to Amy's company. It was only funny the first 20 times) And in fairness, Amy definitely wore the pants in that relationship. I always read those sorts of comments from Eleven as not caring about how marriages technically work so much as this one actually worked, and even at his best Rory was whipped as hell.
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Sep 15, 2014 10:31
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Cleretic posted:And in fairness, Amy definitely wore the pants in that relationship. I always read those sorts of comments from Eleven as not caring about how marriages technically work so much as this one actually worked, and even at his best Rory was whipped as hell. Well, yeah. That was  (though I object to the general tenor of your statement, ain't nothing wrong with Amy being the dominant partner). I thought the "Rory Pond" jokes were really funny for a while, it's just that in my opinion it got old, tired, and samey after the umpteenth time.
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Sep 15, 2014 10:37
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Jsor posted:It got kind of boring and samey when 11 kept using the same two jokes on Rory too. (Yes, we get it, Amy is your BFF and you'll only ever view Rory as an accessory to Amy's company. It was only funny the first 20 times) To be fair also, 11's joke-per-minute rate had to be 4-5 times higher than 12's so far.
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Sep 15, 2014 11:18
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Jsor posted:I have no problem with the Doctor insulting Clara. It's the fact that in every episode they've been obnoxious comments about her looks. Call her headstrong and brash, call her abrasive, call her high strung, call her a know-it-all. Great, another misogynist who wants to tear down a woman for showing drive, initiative and leadership qualities. #banbossy When will men realize that women are made of porcelain and that any criticism, no matter how slight, will shatter their fragile egos, and thus tantamount to assault?
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Sep 15, 2014 11:29
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Cleretic posted:Can anybody point out to me any times other than in Listen that Twelve made jabs about Clara's appearance? I'm not doubting they exist, I just don't remember them. I only remember the one from Inside the Dalek: quote:Clara: How do I look?
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Sep 15, 2014 12:06
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Jesus christ how long are you people going to cry about a joke?
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Sep 15, 2014 12:12
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Pizdec posted:This episode did Ambiguity well, which is a pretty loathed concept in TV since Lost and not often done well in Dr Who, so kudos to Moffat for that. I realize it's subjective, but he absolutely did not do ambiguity well. This read like production, unable to choose between two explanations, stapled them together. The number of zany coincidences required to accept the no-monster angle would make creationist scientists blush, and you have to deliberately ignore most of what was shown on-screen. You're left with the same Lost-level garbage where no, it doesn't make sense - but it was about the characters all along.  Which can be fine and fun if it's done well. But they showed the monster on-screen, then showed it on-screen again through blurry TARDIS viewscreen*, gave it a motive (something something fear), established a background spanning through history to the end of time. But worst, it acted off-camera while the characters who might have absently been doing a thing were on-screen. Writing with the chalk, rolling chalk back to 12's shoe, switching off the television, etc. (*Unless that was just space debris dancing around? It was hard to tell.) If you've ever seen High Tension, the same problem crops up at the end where the split-personality killer gets into a car chase with herself - and then both cars are together in the last scene. One answer is clear and obvious, the other requires tortured reasoning and dismissing provided information. But then the harder-to-accept answer is signaled as the 'proper' one and it's just confusing and frustrating. Lying to the viewer for a "Fooled you!" Shyamalan isn't good Ambiguity.
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Sep 15, 2014 12:44
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Yeah, I think if Moffat really wanted to create an ambiguous string of events, he could have come up with something a lot less contrived than this.
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Sep 15, 2014 12:48
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moths posted:I realize it's subjective, but he absolutely did not do ambiguity well. This read like production, unable to choose between two explanations, stapled them together. The number of zany coincidences required to accept the no-monster angle would make creationist scientists blush, and you have to deliberately ignore most of what was shown on-screen. You're left with the same Lost-level garbage where no, it doesn't make sense - but it was about the characters all along. I'm going to reserve making a final decision on this episode until I see the rest of the season. If it is addressed again and it turns out that the first 75% of this episode was set up to something later then I'll consider it a great, albeit clunky, episode. If it's never mentioned again it'll seem like Moffat just trying to shoehorn some creepy scenes into an otherwise mundane episode.
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Sep 15, 2014 12:51
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Astroman posted:I do disagree with you there. I think it precisely because the War Doctor is very much still The Doctor that he shines. It really is the Doctor fooling himself and I'm glad we didn't see a harder edged Doctor. It just worked better for me personally that way. I also think the descriptions of the Time War across the ages, the Battle TARDISes, the Skaro Degradations, and Rassilon himself were exactly what I imagined the Time War to be. In that sense it fills in a nice gap. I don't disagree with you there, it is nice to get the sense of a good Doctor in a bad situation, but the way the War Doctor is talked about in the show made it seem as if there was more than just the Moment to be ashamed of. Things like still refusing to outfit the TARDIS with weaponry despite being in a massive war are a little too on the noise Doctor-y. It's not that I don't like that, but it seems a bit safe. I try to avoid too many specifics in my reviews themselves, but I did especially like the descriptions of TARDISes destroyed in battle, "blooming" (is this original to the novel?), and the Doctor using the TARDIS to ram people.
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Sep 15, 2014 12:53
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He left a lot of leads stamped FOR FUTURE EXPANSION (The missing blanket, Doctor Who's Armyman Dan, Orson's recolection of his great-grandparents time adventures) and Moffat is psychologically incapable of leaving any interesting idea unrun into the ground. Missy was also conspicuously absent, so maybe she's under everybody's beds and writing on our chalkboards.
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Sep 15, 2014 12:59
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Pizdec posted:It's kind of weird how many people are suddenly on the gender battle traction over the stupidest of things, this is some of his best poo poo since forever. What battle? It is simply about pointing out problematic themes. It is a good thing that people (including myself) are becoming more aware of it. That doesn't mean you cannot enjoy the show anymore or that you are a misogynist. Anyway, this episode was fun. I enjoyed the slightly disjointed structure and the general creepy atmosphere. Irish Joe posted:Great, another misogynist who wants to tear down a woman for showing drive, initiative and leadership qualities. #banbossy When will men realize that women are made of porcelain and that any criticism, no matter how slight, will shatter their fragile egos, and thus tantamount to assault? Maybe it's best for you to stop posting for a while. You seem to take this personally for some reason. saucerman fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 13:38
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I think the reason for the Doctor constantly ragging on Clara becomes clear in the context of this exchange from Deep Breath:quote:The Doctor: Clara, I'm not your boyfriend. The Doctor has chosen to be meaner to Clara to keep things appropriate in his own mind.
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Sep 15, 2014 13:47
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Dabir posted:And Gallifrey's sky is orange anyway. Ehh, it's been blue enough. They used the red/orange filter back in Invasion of Time when Leela was traipsing about outside but it was still blue-ish at points.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:38
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Teek posted:Ehh, it's been blue enough. They used the red/orange filter back in Invasion of Time when Leela was traipsing about outside but it was still blue-ish at points. Also, it was a fetching shade of Welsh overcast grey in The Five Doctors.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:42
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This episode was great. One of my favorite in a long time. Here is a screen cap for the scene in Pink's room. 
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Sep 15, 2014 14:51
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BioMe posted:Jesus christ how long are you people going to cry about a joke? It's just a bit of harmless banter
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Sep 15, 2014 14:58
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Irish Joe posted:Great, another misogynist who wants to tear down a woman for showing drive, initiative and leadership qualities. #banbossy When will men realize that women are made of porcelain and that any criticism, no matter how slight, will shatter their fragile egos, and thus tantamount to assault? Sorry, this is missing the obligatory reference to tumblr and includes no jokes about trigger warnings, so it cannot quite win the thread's award for the most insipid dismissal of any criticism. We'll take applications for next episode.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Last of the Time Lords (except all those ones on planets outside Gallifrey that you can go to). Kind of removes the pathos a bit. I mean like the equivalent of the Moon for Earth. It's possible (and indeed, likely) that by this stage of the Time War there were no more Galifreyan outposts.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:20
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Spacebump posted:This episode was great. One of my favorite in a long time. See, that just sets off all the 'wrong wrong wrong' detectors in my brain, it's creepy and it's great. This was easily the best part of the episode. EDIT - I mean, obviously they're mining the same seam as the Silence (big eyes, big head, classic grey alien thing) but this was done a lot better than the Silence, who were creepy for approximately half an episode and then became big rubbery jokes. Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 15:23
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computer parts posted:I mean like the equivalent of the Moon for Earth. It's possible (and indeed, likely) that by this stage of the Time War there were no more Galifreyan outposts. We just went to one that survived the Time War!
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Sep 15, 2014 15:24
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I didn't see this episode on Saturday because I got home late. I didn't see this episode on Sunday because I got sick and crashed before my fiancee and I could watch it. While asleep, I had a reoccurring dream I've had throughout my life - sometimes my bedroom, sometimes a place that's familiar to me (in this case my kitchen, but with nothing on the counter tops), but always knowing something is under the bed/around the corner/down the stairs/just outside the "how the hell did that get opened" front door. So this morning, on cold meds AND with that dream still in my head, I sat down to watch Listen.  This review should be fun.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:29
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Maybe The Doctor was raised by non-Galifrayans? Also I thought his species was 'Time Lord' until now, didn't realize you had to qualify to be one.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:30
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saucerman posted:What battle? It is simply about pointing out problematic themes. This pointing out has been going on for the last 5 pages.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:33
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Maybe The Doctor was raised by non-Galifrayans? Remember when the Master was taken to stare into the Untempered Schism to join the Time Lord academy?
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Sep 15, 2014 15:35
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thexerox123 posted:This pointing out has been going on for the last 5 pages. Because of people going "I don't see the problem you should stop complaining".
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Sep 15, 2014 15:37
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Because of people going "I don't see the problem you should stop complaining". Right, that would be the battle that saucerman didn't think existed.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:39
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Maybe The Doctor was raised by non-Galifrayans? This has been a longstanding point of contention. The classic series occasionally mentioned "Shabogans" and "outcasts"; the Chancellory Guard's Time-Lord-ness is under dispute; and the established fact tht Rassilon heavily altered the genetics of Gallifreyans in order to create Time Lords raises questions about the relationship between "Gallifreyan" and "Time Lord". What the biological differences are, if any, remains uncertain.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:39
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thexerox123 posted:Right, that would be the battle that saucerman didn't think existed. It's as good a thing to talk about as any, though. We've spent pages and pages discussing the design of the TARDIS interior before, it's not like discussing a particular script quirk of season 8 is particularly stupid or offensive, regardless of whether it engenders disagreement.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:48
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Bicyclops posted:It's as good a thing to talk about as any, though. We've spent pages and pages discussing the design of the TARDIS interior before, it's not like discussing a particular script quirk of season 8 is particularly stupid or offensive, regardless of whether it engenders disagreement. I'm not saying it shouldn't be talked about, I'm just saying don't pretend that it hasn't been an ongoing back and forth for the past 5 pages.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:50
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The discussion reminds me of something I read on some blog around the time Capaldi was cast (maybe a little while after, or maybe a little while before) and people were talking about casting a woman as the Doctor - at some point Moffat had said there's no reason it couldn't happen in the future, and some plonker on this blog was having a right whinge about "Steven Moffat's feminist agenda", which just goes to show... something? Honestly, I've no idea. 
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Sep 15, 2014 16:11
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Plavski posted:Remember when the Master was taken to stare into the Untempered Schism to join the Time Lord academy? DoctorWhat posted:This has been a longstanding point of contention.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:16
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Metal Loaf posted:The discussion reminds me of something I read on some blog around the time Capaldi was cast (maybe a little while after, or maybe a little while before) and people were talking about casting a woman as the Doctor - at some point Moffat had said there's no reason it couldn't happen in the future, and some plonker on this blog was having a right whinge about "Steven Moffat's feminist agenda", which just goes to show... something? Honestly, I've no idea. Didn't Moffat say a woman playing the Doctor would be like a man playing the Queen? Which makes me doubt that Missy is the Master, as some have theorised.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:19
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think I erased The Sound of Drums from my memory, but yeah I guess that makes sense. He passed the final examination getting a score of 51%, the lowest possible pass rate. Romana got a "triple first", whatever that is.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:20
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Is it known whether The Doctor himself is legitimately a Time Lord, or could it just be a self-proclaimed thing? He was enough of a Time Lord to be President of the High Council for about ten minutes back in the day. I think it was established that he did get into the academy but didn't do well there.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:22
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Is it known whether The Doctor himself is legitimately a Time Lord, or could it just be a self-proclaimed thing? Graduated from the Prydonian Academy, but just barely and on his third attempt at the final. A total screwup, not cut out to really succeed as a Time Lord. (source: The Ribos Operation)
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Sep 15, 2014 16:24
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the brief glimpse of the thing under the covers made me think of these guys from MirrorMask
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Sep 15, 2014 16:28
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So what were Time Lords actually meant to do? Like, what do they study? When they graduate what kind of things do they do with their Time Lord degrees? anyway Listen was probably the best episode since season 5 overall but man that ending was so awful. When is Moffat gonna realise making Clara important in the Doctor's past isn't the same as actually giving her a personality? and wasn't it established that nobody was gonna really remember the events of the 50th, so how does Clara remember the barn? as well as what's already been covered with how can the Tardis go to Gallifrey in the first place?
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Sep 15, 2014 16:30
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