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Lurdiak posted:As far as I understand, only Loeb wanted the reboot, and he didn't know poo poo about the running Ultimate titles, nor did he consult the creative teams of those books. It's just another one of his attempts to make a book That Matters so he can add it to his resume next time he tries to negotiate his salary on another hot title that someone better built up. And he figured if he killed enough people they'd have to go with his idea and reboot.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:02
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He even tried to kill Spider-Man, didn't he? Or did Bendis write that fake out?
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Sep 15, 2014 18:04
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Aphrodite posted:He even tried to kill Spider-Man, didn't he? Or did Bendis write that fake out?
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Sep 15, 2014 18:07
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Nothing'll top just slaughtering Dr. Strange in graphic fashion for no real reason at all. Well, maybe killing 85% of the X-Men roster including Wolverine in a scene that was essentially Loeb going "HE'S DEAD, SEE, DEAD FOREVER. THINK HE'S COMING BACK? NU-UH GONE FOREVER AND EVER"
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Sep 15, 2014 18:08
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I just want to know how no one at Marvel went "Wait, you want to do what now" as soon as the idea came up. Were sales for Ultimate titles flagging THAT badly, that they felt it was worth doing a massive shock value series and overturning years of storylines?
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Sep 15, 2014 18:09
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Kurui Reiten posted:I just want to know how no one at Marvel went "Wait, you want to do what now" as soon as the idea came up. Were sales for Ultimate titles flagging THAT badly, that they felt it was worth doing a massive shock value series and overturning years of storylines? I think everything but Ultimate Spidey was doing pretty poorly.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:13
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Loeb has had inexplicable pull at Marvel for the longest time. He essentially muscled his way into Greg Pak's Hulk series as it was reaching its climax simply so he could take some of the credit for it, and nobody said "Wow, that's kind of a dick move Jeph, maybe wait til the great-selling critical darling run is done".
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Sep 15, 2014 18:14
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When was the last actually good thing Loeb did?
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Sep 15, 2014 18:21
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OldTennisCourt posted:When was the last actually good thing Loeb did? The Long Halloween
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Sep 15, 2014 18:26
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The Long Halloween I'd dispute even that. For one thing, it's a whodunnit where the answers make no sense.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:27
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OldTennisCourt posted:When was the last actually good thing Loeb did? Nova
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Sep 15, 2014 18:29
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Lurdiak posted:I'd dispute even that. For one thing, it's a whodunnit where the answers make no sense. That's kinda intentional though.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:35
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Lurdiak posted:Loeb has had inexplicable pull at Marvel for the longest time. You do something okayish, people recognize it, and you coast on a gaggle of buddies and fans for the rest of your life.
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Sep 15, 2014 19:02
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Lurdiak posted:I'd dispute even that. For one thing, it's a whodunnit where the answers make no sense. Probably. I was talking about this in CineD a while back, but I'm honestly rarely into mysteries for the mystery. I just like the atmosphere, and Long Halloween has great atmosphere. It of course succeeds more on Tim Sale's merits than Loeb's, but his writing in it is at least passable. It doesn't actively drag down Sale's art with it like, say, Dark Victory.
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Sep 15, 2014 19:10
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I'd heard that Loeb wanted to take a break from comics after the death of his son, but Joe Quesada encouraged him to come and write for Ultimate Marvel instead. Of course, I think it was well after he'd done Hush with Jim Lee, which was the best-selling Batman comic in something like 20 years. That probably factored into it.
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Sep 15, 2014 19:11
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I feel bad for Loeb because of Sam's death and all, but ruining the Ultimate line in comics wasn't bad enough for him, so he proceeded to gently caress up USM on TV too!
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Sep 15, 2014 19:12
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Alhazred posted:That's kinda intentional though. Yeah but if you don't know that coming in you feel a bit cheated.
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Sep 15, 2014 19:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Probably. I was talking about this in CineD a while back, but I'm honestly rarely into mysteries for the mystery. I just like the atmosphere, and Long Halloween has great atmosphere.
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Sep 15, 2014 19:25
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Kurui Reiten posted:I just want to know how no one at Marvel went "Wait, you want to do what now" as soon as the idea came up. Were sales for Ultimate titles flagging THAT badly, that they felt it was worth doing a massive shock value series and overturning years of storylines? Yes. It was pretty much well dead and effectively buried by the time Loeb came on. The universe changing Ultimatium was supposed to try and do something to differentiate the line from 616. Which in effect it did, it's just that it was also a terrible story.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:22
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Solaris Knight posted:I feel bad for Loeb because of Sam's death and all, but ruining the Ultimate line in comics wasn't bad enough for him, so he proceeded to gently caress up USM on TV too!
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Sep 15, 2014 21:29
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Waterhaul posted:Yes. It was pretty much well dead and effectively buried by the time Loeb came on. The universe changing Ultimatium was supposed to try and do something to differentiate the line from 616. Which in effect it did, it's just that it was also a terrible story. Relative to where it is now, it was the picture of health in 2009. For whatever reason, Marvel seems to think it would be incredibly shameful and humiliating to simply admit that the Ultimate U has outlived its relevance and move on.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:35
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Barry Convex posted:Relative to where it is now, it was the picture of health in 2009. For whatever reason, Marvel seems to think it would be incredibly shameful and humiliating to simply admit that the Ultimate U has outlived its relevance and move on. Loeb wanted to write the Ultimate line and everything he wrote sold a shitload. He just decided to give the Ultimate Fantastic Four and Ultimate X-men to two of his lackeys from Heroes. They wrote some lovely lovely stories along with Ultimates 3 and then we got Ultimatium. The only good thing I can say about it was the character development that JJJ got.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:39
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What's the story with this? When EMH was canned for the All New, All Cinematic animated Avengers, Loeb went on to taint USM. Unless you mean what's with his kid dying? He got cancer, now all of Loeb's stories have to have a plucky young boy named Sam that is the key to everything.
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Sep 16, 2014 17:53
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Metal Loaf posted:I'd heard that Loeb wanted to take a break from comics after the death of his son, but Joe Quesada encouraged him to come and write for Ultimate Marvel instead. Towards the end of his time at Heroes he did his first post-Sam-dying Marvel work, Onslaught Reborn with Rob Liefeld with "proceeds donated to The Sam Loeb College Scholarship Fund". Then he did that "Last Wolverine/Sabretooth story" where is turns out everyone is a dog person, then Fallen Son because he knew the stages of grief and he saw dollar signs in literally cribbing a eulogy for his son to use when Falcon eulogizes Cap. By the time he did Ultimates 3 (concurrent with him jumping in on Hulk) Sam Loeb had been dead for a couple of years and he'd lost his TV jobs and Loeb had signed an exclusive deal with Marvel, I think. Quesada still might have asked him to revamp the Ultimate Universe, though. My favorite Jeph Loeb story was about how after the success of Long Halloween and Dark Victory he had a brilliant idea for two more "Long Halloweens", sure to be big sellers. One would be a yearlong murder mystery where Batman goes to New York and has to fight all of Spider-Man's iconic villains. Then in Long Halloween IV, a yearlong murder mystery takes Spider-Man to Gotham City where he gets to fight all of BATMAN'S iconic foes. These are the sort of big ideas Jeph Loeb brings to the table. When he spent half a Word Balloon interview making fun of Bendis for wanting to write nobody characters like Luke Cage all the time even though Bendis is an A-list writer and should never write a book that isn't one of the top 3-5 characters in the industry, he was pressured by the host about whether he thought he could do a good Luke Cage story. Loeb said he probably could do a good Luke Cage series, if he got Ed McGuinness or Tim Sale or Jim Lee to draw it, and if he could do a six or twelve issue arc where you have Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Man, Captain America, Doctor Doom, Deadpool, Magneto, and enough other important characters in it. Jeph Loeb is the worst event.
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Sep 16, 2014 23:50
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Edge & Christian posted:That timeline doesn't really sync up because Sam Loeb died in the summer of 2005, in the middle of Jeph's Superman/Batman run and as he was getting ready to launch Supergirl. Around that same time he had some sort of falling out with DC and was pulled out of the Infinite Crisis braintrust or whatever and after Superman/Batman and an incredibly delayed/abbreviated Supergirl arc he didn't have any comics work for a spell. Some of this may have had something to do with the death of his son, but it also coincides with him getting hired (and subsequently fired) from writing for Lost and Heroes. Right, I see. I don't know about these things so thank you for enlightening me.
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Sep 16, 2014 23:59
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Edge & Christian posted:One would be a yearlong murder mystery where Batman goes to New York and has to fight all of Spider-Man's iconic villains. Then in Long Halloween IV, a yearlong murder mystery takes Spider-Man to Gotham City where he gets to fight all of BATMAN'S iconic foes. These are the sort of big ideas Jeph Loeb brings to the table. I kinda want to read those, they sound like fun. There's certainly worse idea out there. As far as the history, I'd heard it that his son died, he retired after a while, Quesada convinced him to come back and since then all his stories have been depressing death-fests. Thanks for sorting things out.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:02
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It would literally just be the long Halloween part IV. If you want it, just read the long Halloween.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:04
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catlord posted:I kinda want to read those, they sound like fun. There's certainly worse idea out there. Spiderman: "Someone is using my oldest and deadliest villains in NEW AND UNEXPECTED WAYS!" Batman: "Clearly a criminal mastermind is behind this... but who!" Gwen Stacy: "It's me. And I'm not dead. I was never dead!" Gasp! edit: "just kidding! It is I, the Clay-melion!" Spider/Bats: "Then... WHO?!" Mysterious Figure: "all going to plan" *clicks off monitor* FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 00:06
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I really like Long Halloween but I can't stand the SHOCKING TWIST of who the killer on the last page. It just felt so unnecessary. It was like Loeb saw the Usual Suspects for the first time and desperately wanted to ape it.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:26
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I confess, Gwen Stacy still being alive is the last thing I'd expect to read in a Batman comic.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:26
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FilthyImp posted:After he shitfucked the Ultimate line, Marvel shunted him off to Animated. So he decreed that Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes shouldn't have season-long interrelated plot arcs because kids show. This happened during their Secret Invasion season, which .... yeah. Jesus Christ.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:45
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He still wrote Commando, snappy one liners and all.  He will always be on a pardon list because of it, even if Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum made me so loving angry to read.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:05
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Kulkasha posted:Azbats was definitely a dig against Xtreme 90's comics, though, from his story arc to his increasingly ridiculous costume. Batman defeating him to retake the title was a giant "gently caress you" to everyone who had pushed comics to be edgier during that time. I loved this, and it came at just the right time. I was just aging out/getting sick of 90s xtreme, and knightsquest was so boring, so after the increasingly promising knightsend, Bruce beating Ironbat by outsmarting him and tricking him into finally coming into the sunlight was amazing.
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Sep 29, 2014 05:41
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So, in retrospect where would we place Original Sin? I liked it a lot personally. The killer was pretty obvious halfway through (or even from the start for many people) but Bucky as a super secret space/dimensional assassin kinda rules and the whole story itself was pretty fun. Not gonna lie though, Axis looks more and more like it might end up here though.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:21
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Every event comic line that comes out from 2000+ will be poo poo and deserves to be mentioned here.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:43
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Gologle posted:Every event comic line that comes out from 2000+ will be poo poo and deserves to be mentioned here. Infinity was pretty good.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:25
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Defiance Industries posted:Infinity was pretty good. I liked Infinity except, and I'm robably going to get flayed alive for this, the Earth/Thanos portion of Infinity. I really preferred the Avengers running around space a lot more, and the invasion stuff just seemed to slow the action down. Thanos has been overused and overexposed lately, and I say this as someone who's first comic was The Infinity Gauntlet and who considers Thanos to be one his favorite villains/anti-hero. Mister Nobody fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 18:46
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I'm just saying, if everything is the worst event, then Age of Apocalypse and Ultimatum are exactly as good as each other.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:48
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Defiance Industries posted:I'm just saying, if everything is the worst event, then Age of Apocalypse and Ultimatum are exactly as good as each other. Age of Apocalypse has a special place in my heart based solely because reading and trying to piece together the storyline from disparate AoA titles my older brother had bought on a whim years earlier, helped me survive a 4 month long power outage without going insane. Ultimatum is just poo poo though. Mister Nobody fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 18:57
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Age of Apocalypse was pretty drat fun if you're an X-Men fan. My first comic shows in the mid nineties were spent hunting down every issue, so I may be a bit bias.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:29
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