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Tracula posted:Just one because I believe the definition for death touch is "Any amount of damage this creature does is enough to destroy target opponent creature" So you still only do one damage but it's enough to destroy any amount of toughness. Please don't use the word target loosely because it has a very specific meaning and deathtouch doesn't interact with targeting in any way.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:53
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Sorry  I'm still not all that versed on things and I forget that you really do have to be very, very specific in how you word things.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:54
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Madmarker posted:Nissa is easily the better drop in a deck that has access to green. Its resistant to removal, protects itself, and generates a 4/4 every turn. Nissa can function on an empty board. Wingmate cannot. Thats the main difference, and its enough of one to make it a better choice should it be an option. If you are playing Abzan, you are decidedly a value midrange deck, and are probably leaning defensively on most of your creatures rather than offensively. Meaning that you will not always be able to attack even when you have creatures. Further, the main creature with flying that needs to be blocked (Stormbreath) cannot be blocked by Wingmate Roc. Nissa works better as a threat in that strategy as she can convert every unnecessary land into a creature, and these are far more resistant to removal than roc as Nissa can continue to produce threats herself, meaning every turn she is unanswered, she becomes hard to answer.. It's not that roc is bad. I'm not even saying that it wont see play, its just there are better options in WG and WR, I am unsure of in a primarily WB deck and WU will probably play the wrath over it. Could be. I will admit I am not a fan of Junk/Orzhov colors, but I do love me some Gruul Izzet. It really feels like Temur is just this great smashing together of Gruul/Izzet.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:57
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I've been playtesting with Murderous Cut and without any "enablers" you routinely get to places where, e.g. you have 3 cards in your graveyard and you're able to play another spell then 1-mana-kill-your-thing the same turn thanks to delve. It's really easy to fill up your graveyard. Especially when you're also playing cards like Despise/thoughtseize, windswept Heath, other removal spells, etc. Plus your own creatures that get killed. Turn 1 Windswepth Heath into Elvish Mystic, turn two Despise and a 2-drop, Turn 3 Abzan Charm or something, suddenly your Murderous Cut is really close to being a 1-mana unconditional removal spell.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:59
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The best delve enablers are instants and sorceries.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:02
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Madmarker posted:Now before we go to crazy with this, the original conversation chain that triggered this was about why Wingmate Roc's price wasn't soaring. Now, without getting to high and mighty or rocing the boat here, I am fairly confident this card should remain nested in trade binders for until Theros is gone. Unless their is some particularly foul interaction I'm missing, it will stay in the budget wing of most LGSs for a while.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:02
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jassi007 posted:Could be. I will admit I am not a fan of Junk/Orzhov colors, but I do love me some Gruul Izzet. It really feels like Temur is just this great smashing together of Gruul/Izzet. I mean, my deck of choice (u/w control with no wincons other than elixir) is rotating soon, but this set is really hard on me, as I am not seeing the UW durdle deck. I like having counterspells, card draw and wraths, and notably all 3 are pretty weak this time around. So none of these decks are really speaking to me. I'm probably going to play a bunch of limited to grab fetches and sit out of standard until a proven UW shell comes along. Veyrall posted:These aren't your dad's puns. These are turbo-puns! Thank you, I was wondering when someone would chirp up about those.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:03
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Tracula posted:Sorry It's actually kind of silly but with newer cards whenever you have to choose something you can generally assume that you're targeting it, but if the phrase choose a permanent is specifically used that's always an effect to keep in mind since it means it gets around abilities that prevent targetting (this templating is usually only used on clone variants any more). But at some level Magic becomes a tyranny of little words and effects (but that's usually only when you're playing for a good chunk of prize and/or against jerks).
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Sep 15, 2014 21:05
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odiv posted:"That spell" refers to the one you targeted, the non-creature one. If it said, "counter target spell instead" I think it would counter any type. Double G doesn't help much with being put in a 3 color deck. Also, her +1 only untaps forests, which makes it even worse without shocks. I'm sure she's fine, but it just feels so bad to lose all that value.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:05
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Madmarker posted:Now before we go to crazy with this, the original conversation chain that triggered this was about why Wingmate Roc's price wasn't soaring. Now, without getting to high and mighty or rocing the boat here, I am fairly confident this card should remain nested in trade binders for until Theros is gone. Unless their is some particularly fowl interaction I'm missing, it will stay in the budget wing of most LGSs for a while. I'm disappointed you missed this one, so I added it for you.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:08
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Some Numbers posted:I'm disappointed you missed this one, so I added it for you. Thanks, I'll edit my earlier post to reflect that, hopefully it'll stop a few people from squawking.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:10
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Bread Set Jettison posted:The best delve enablers are instants and sorceries. A burn spell with Delve would be scary.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:14
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jassi007 posted:Could be. I will admit I am not a fan of Junk/Orzhov colors, but I do love me some Gruul Izzet. It really feels like Temur is just this great smashing together of Gruul/Izzet. I'm just not certain there's something in Temur colors making it slambang better than Junk. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Stain the Mind or Despise running around in a black splash deck which would at least give it a good proactive solution to Stormbreath, which is its biggest enemy.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:15
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Entropic posted:A burn spell with Delve would be scary. A delve-Fireball would be awesome.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:20
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Madmarker posted:A delve-Fireball would be awesome. Also, broken.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:21
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Madmarker posted:A delve-Fireball would be awesome. Empty the Pits is probably the closest we'll get to that.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:22
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Madmarker posted:A delve-Fireball would be awesome. Reprint fireblast in the next set. Oh and ball lightening.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:22
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Angry Grimace posted:Also, broken. Depends on how they costed it, XXRRR probably would be fine, but yes XR Delve-Fireball would be busted.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:23
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Delve Death Cloud
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Sep 15, 2014 21:45
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I want a delve killing wave because just burning an opponent isn't that fun.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:46
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Delve Shaharazad.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:47
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I think Killing Wave was the most confounding-to-newbies card in recent memory. There was a brief period where people were trying to combo it with blood artists and trying to explain to new players what that deck was trying to do was harder than you'd think.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:48
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So Karsten Cotter says Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are just busted. I'm inclined to agree. Link Edit: vvvv for legacy. And as far as standard, I can't see the control deck(s) of the format not playing 3/4. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 21:49
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suicidesteve posted:So Karsten Cotter says Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are just busted. I'm inclined to agree. Dig Through Time is weird because its obviously busted, but blue doesn't seem like a very strong color in Khans in general. Could it fit into Temur somewhere? His Legacy deck might be less busted if he took the Mental Missteps out and made it Legacy-legal. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 21:51
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I had a few random thoughts about cards - now I'm not saying these are good, just that maybe there's a home for them now. Hornet Nest: I saw this do work in some random newbie's deck at Monday Night Magic last week. It blocks effectively, can't be burnt out, and the tokens scare off even big threats. The mono-red pro player he played against would have been dead on board if he didn't have a Legion Loyalist. I think this could be at least a sideboard card against the ground-pounder Monsters decks. Silence the Believers: Mana ramp seems like a common theme for your two-drop slot, and the flexibility of exiling maybe two creatures as an instant seems worth looking into, no? The only issue is that it doesn't hit Planeswalkers; well it does hit Sarkhan, but not Elspeth or Nissa.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:00
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Cunso posted:In the prerelease primer they posted today they only confirmed each clan has a chance of a Khan, but that they're not going to say what the other 7 rares are for each clan. That's actually kind of cool.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:20
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I really want to Chord out a Hornet Nest when a big creature swings in, but I just can't justify the spot in my deck. Maybe I'll throw it in there just for fun. Also, hitting it with a burn spell to ambush fliers is super fun in limited, but that probably wouldn't fly too well in constructed.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:22
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odiv posted:I really want to Chord out a Hornet Nest when a big creature swings in, but I just can't justify the spot in my deck. Maybe I'll throw it in there just for fun. The hornets are 1/1 fliers so I'd say they're at least average at flying.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:22
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Karsten makes some really good points about both blue draw spells and as much as I'm a fan of non blue decks in legacy, a part of me thinks it would be hilarious if playing anything other than blue was not viable. I think he is dead on about how easy it is to enable delve in common cantrip heavy blue decks and I'm extremely curious to see how the format shakes out with these cards in it.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:30
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For clarification his name is actually Carsten Kotter. This is confusing because Frank Karsten is another player who writes things that are neat to read. Just sayin' Frank Karsten doesn't usually write about Legacy while Carsten Kotter does.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:37
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Was there anybody that didn't think those two cards were loving bonkers though?
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Sep 15, 2014 22:40
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I'm a bit upset they didn't print 9UU: Time Trot: Target player takes another turn after this one just so I could read "It's literally a time walk"
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Sep 15, 2014 22:41
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I wonder if there could be some kind of controlling Jeskai thing with Jace/Thassa, Keranos and Sarkhan. Sarkhan/Keranos can bash to the face and blow up dudes while your blue guy of choice filters the cards for Keranos and you just play sweepers (Anger of the Gods/End Hostilities) that don't hit any of them.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:48
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I thought Wizards were going all out with the pre-release promos and that each of the 40 would get alternate art, but it looks like most (all?) of the cards are just stamped foils.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:35
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Rinkles posted:I thought Wizards were going all out with the pre-release promos and that each of the 40 would get alternate art, but it looks like most (all?) of the cards are just stamped foils. They were never going to have alternate art for the prerelease promos. They made alternate art for the intro deck box rares instead.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:55
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Angry Grimace posted:I wonder if there could be some kind of controlling Jeskai thing with Jace/Thassa, Keranos and Sarkhan. Sarkhan/Keranos can bash to the face and blow up dudes while your blue guy of choice filters the cards for Keranos and you just play sweepers (Anger of the Gods/End Hostilities) that don't hit any of them. Jace is rotating along with all the good stuff (aka boring overpowered poo poo) in U/W. e: Unless you mean the terrible Jace, who is definitely a BUg card. I'm reasonably sure control decks in the new meta will still be UWx, though, given that we have Elspeth, Banishing Light, End Hostilities and a myriad card draw spells. The question is the splash. Red for Jeskai gives you Keranos, Sarkhan, Magma Spray and Anger of the Gods. Black for Esper gives you Thoughtseize, Hero's Downfall, Murderous Cut and Ashiok. UWr looks very good against Rabble Red, Mardu aggro and mono-black aggro decks. UWb looks a lot better against Jund Walkers, Temur Monsters and Mono-Green Devotion. Esper has an edge against enemy control decks thanks to Thoughtseize and Utter End.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:59
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ungulateman posted:Jace is rotating along with all the good stuff (aka boring overpowered poo poo) in U/W. e: Unless you mean the terrible Jace, who is definitely a BUg card. The biggest problem seems like the fact that the card draw spells and Wrath effect are just straight worse than they were before.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:05
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Angry Grimace posted:The biggest problem seems like the fact that the card draw spells and Wrath effect are just straight worse than they were before. And good riddance!  I'm looking forward to making a control deck which isn't just jamming 4 Sphinx's Revs into a pile of answers and 6-mana game winners.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:15
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I'm not certain about Treasure Cruise in Legacy, but I'm sure it's worth trying out in Mono-U Tron. Other than Mindslaver, that deck really doesn't do anything with its graveyard.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:20
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:I'm not certain about Treasure Cruise in Legacy, but I'm sure it's worth trying out in Mono-U Tron. Other than Mindslaver, that deck really doesn't do anything with its graveyard. I'm fairly certain that people are underestimating delve for eternal. Although, I believe that Dig Through Time is more likely to make waves than Treasure Cruise.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:27
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