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PoshAlligator posted:I still haven't read any NAs, though I now have a stack of a handful I picked up on the cheap and I'd like to try them out. Do you know the name of the blooming one? Though I'll probably dip into one of the just released 12th NSAs first. Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible. It's written by Marc Platt, who did Ghost Light as well as some notable BF audios like Spare Parts and The Silver Turk. The story is basically the TARDIS explodes inside out and turns to a city, the Doctor has vanished and Ace meets some people who turn out to be the first time travellers from Gallifrey, pre-Time Lords, when Rassilon was first coming to power. There's a lot of flashbacks and a side plot which occurs on ancient Gallifrey with Rassilon. Much of what is written has been de-canonized, but it remains a fascinating apocryphal look at an alternative Ancient Gallifreyan society before the Time Lords, when they had a Space Empire and still remembered their pre-spaceflight world. It's also very well written, IMO.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:56
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ProfessorLoomis posted:Oh my god. The Doctor is just bustin' clara's balls, like all friends do with each other. Oh my god. This is a good post which explains why that may not be as relevant as you feel it is. Diabolik900 posted:I agree that what you're saying is the intention, but the problem isn't an in-universe "The Doctor is too mean" problem, it's a real world "including dialogue about the main female character's appearance every episode" problem. I'm not worried about how The Doctor's insults are making Clara feel. We can disagree about whether or not this is a problem, as long as we both understand what we're disagreeing about.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:56
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No, I'm starting to think alot of you guys are socially inept shuttins.. imagine that..
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Sep 16, 2014 02:59
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I don't really see it, moths. Twelve seems to me like he has no romantic interest in Clara whatsoever but rather considers her sensible, intelligent and reliable. Maybe the leaked scripts had notation suggesting jealousy on the Doctor's part, but I don't think it shows up even slightly on the screen. When he apologises to her in Deep Breath for acting like her boyfriend before, it's an apology for the flirty way he was leading her on as Eleven, which he now realises was unhealthy and inappropriate. I can agree that maybe there's an issue with all his oblivious insulting of her being looks-focused, but at the same time I think a lot of it is too weird to really play into that narrative, and some of it clearly isn't malicious - like, when Capaldi delivers "her face is so wide, she needs three mirrors", he sounds more impressed than anything. The bit where he assumes she's already taken her makeup off reads way more as his inability to tell whether Clara is wearing makeup or not, to me, combined with an impatience to get her to come with him, than a process of "you look ugly - you must not be wearing any makeup". It's not all like that, and if it continues apace maybe I'll change my mind, but I don't think it's particularly bad so far, and it's more than made up for by how important, confident, capable and pro-active Clara has been in these episodes. She's interesting, charismatic, good with the Doctor, good at solving problems, though not without her own flaws...I think the amount of spotlight she's getting in these episodes and the way it's framed is really feminist. At this point she's not the Doctor's sidekick but feels like she's genuinely sharing centre stage as one of two heroes.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:59
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I think we wouldn't be having this problem if people would simply source their tumblr quotes.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:01
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Android Blues posted:I don't really see it, moths. Twelve seems to me like he has no romantic interest in Clara whatsoever but rather considers her sensible, intelligent and reliable. Maybe the leaked scripts had notation suggesting jealousy on the Doctor's part, but I don't think it shows up even slightly on the screen. When he apologises to her in Deep Breath for acting like her boyfriend before, it's an apology for the flirty way he was leading her on as Eleven, which he now realises was unhealthy and inappropriate. I agree with this 100%. I still maintain that somehow 11 regenerated into Clara and picked up some dope from Pompeii and screwed with his memories to be her body double.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:01
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A person I know is an honest-to-god Aspie said the other day that Capaldi and Hurt are the best Doctors, and at first I thought it was because both have that Clint Eastwood thing. Tired old man who has seen it all before, and wants you to get off his lawn. But then I realized that both of them are also confused by so much around them, and react by burning it all down with bitter sarcasm. Twelve doesn't understand people at all, and the War Doctor doesn't care since he believes he exists to not care enough so that he can pull off a double genocide. From his intricate chalkboard antics, to his believing a lurking creature must exist simply because he wouldn't speak out loud if he was truly alone, well... I can understand people who enjoy pedantic arguments, or overly refining unimportant minutiae, or just don't get society and feel really bitter about it to enjoy this character. It might be why I like 9, he didn't fit in any setting either, but rather than be snippy/jealous he just shoved his foot in the door and mingled to the best of his ability. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 03:01
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Diabolik900 posted:I agree that what you're saying is the intention, but the problem isn't an in-universe "The Doctor is too mean" problem, it's a real world "including dialogue about the main female character's appearance every episode" problem. I'm not worried about how The Doctor's insults are making Clara feel. We can disagree about whether or not this is a problem, as long as we both understand what we're disagreeing about. This here I think is a good explanation as to where some of the confusion some people are having are.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:06
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So how are people "numbering" The Doctor's regenerations these days? Is Capaldi considered the 13th Doctor, counting Hurt before him? Or is Hurt sidelined? If Hurt does "count", does that retroactively make Eccleston 10, Tennant 11, and Smith 12, or do you count them in order of appearance in the show, making Hurt 12 despite canonically coming before Eccleston?
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Sep 16, 2014 03:09
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Hurt is sidelined and just referred to as the War Doctor. It actually doesn't matter that much because the numbering is used almost exclusively for fan discussions and hardly ever pops up in the show, or yeah, I'd kind of feel like he should be retroactively the Ninth Doctor. As it is, though, no big!
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Sep 16, 2014 03:11
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Evil Sagan posted:So how are people "numbering" The Doctor's regenerations these days? Is Capaldi considered the 13th Doctor, counting Hurt before him? Or is Hurt sidelined? If Hurt does "count", does that retroactively make Eccleston 10, Tennant 11, and Smith 12, or do you count them in order of appearance in the show, making Hurt 12 despite canonically coming before Eccleston? Generally Capaldi is 12 and Hurt is "War". (And the Metacrisis which technically counted as a regeneration is generally 10-2 or "Rose's Realdoll")
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Sep 16, 2014 03:12
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moths posted:He left a lot of leads stamped FOR FUTURE EXPANSION (The missing blanket, Doctor Who's Armyman Dan, Orson's recolection of his great-grandparents time adventures) and Moffat is psychologically incapable of leaving any interesting idea unrun into the ground. Well, she's been gone for 2 episodes now, so she's 50/50 so far for the season. On the other hand, I don't recall any deaths of "important" characters in the past couple episodes either, so, no reason to visit her in The Promised Land (even though The Promised Land itself was mentioned in logs in the previous episode)... RunAndGun fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 03:13
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I have a fun question: What if matt smith wasnt shown the door last year, what if he was wrapping up his fourth season on the show and rumors were floating around that, No, he wouldnt be leaving before his fifth. If he had stuck around longer than any newwho doctor and was gunning hard for Tom Bakers longevity record: Would you be annoyed? Would he be wearing thin at this point? Were the fevered cries in 2010 of "He can stay for a million years" actually going to have legs?
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Sep 16, 2014 03:17
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Android Blues posted:I don't really see it, moths. Twelve seems to me like he has no romantic interest in Clara whatsoever but rather considers her sensible, intelligent and reliable. Maybe the leaked scripts had notation suggesting jealousy on the Doctor's part, but I don't think it shows up even slightly on the screen. No, he definitely gets more prickly when faced with the idea that Clara can have a life apart from his. And there are very obvious ways he forces himself into her life. Then again, maybe I'm the only one who's dealt with that sort of psychodrama. You guys are lucky!
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Sep 16, 2014 03:17
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Evil Sagan posted:So how are people "numbering" The Doctor's regenerations these days? Is Capaldi considered the 13th Doctor, counting Hurt before him? Or is Hurt sidelined? If Hurt does "count", does that retroactively make Eccleston 10, Tennant 11, and Smith 12, or do you count them in order of appearance in the show, making Hurt 12 despite canonically coming before Eccleston? I keep thinking of Capaldi as 13, due to the line in Day of the Doctor. ("No, Thirteen!") Which actually creates a hole at 12 and whenever someone refers to him as "12" I've needed to take a moment to figure out which one they're talking about.  MattD1zzl3 posted:I have a fun question: What if matt smith wasnt shown the door last year, what if he was wrapping up his fourth season on the show and rumors were floating around that, No, he wouldnt be leaving before his fifth. If he had stuck around longer than any newwho doctor and was gunning hard for Tom Bakers longevity record: Would you be annoyed? Would he be wearing thin at this point? Were the fevered cries in 2010 of "He can stay for a million years" actually going to have legs? I was still enjoying Smith. The scripts were terrible and Clara needed characterization, but that was hardly Smith's fault.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:18
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I have a fun question: What if matt smith wasnt shown the door last year, what if he was wrapping up his fourth season on the show and rumors were floating around that, No, he wouldnt be leaving before his fifth. If he had stuck around longer than any newwho doctor and was gunning hard for Tom Bakers longevity record: Would you be annoyed? Would he be wearing thin at this point? Were the fevered cries in 2010 of "He can stay for a million years" actually going to have legs? Matt Smith owned and I would have been happy to have him in the role for as long as he wanted to do it. I don't think his chemistry with Coleman was all that good, though, and Capaldi is really great at being the Doctor too.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:18
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think The Doctor already trusts Clara fine though. As others have said he had faith that Clara could perform tasks on her own in the first two episodes, and even in the latest episode he ultimately trusts Clara's judgment enough to not go outside and see where they are. He just (unintentionally I think) insults Clara every now and then. I think this episode was all about the Doctor spinning his wheels and getting a bit too self-involved. He doesn't know what he wants to do and feels vulnerable, even to making up poo poo about imaginary companions. A vulnerable Doctor is a tetchy one, a bully. You're right, he wouldn't insult Clara in this way if he seriously thought it would drive her off. He's just trying to be number one in the pecking order. As has been noted, the Doc isn't exactly without prior form in the insult department, which goes way back (I remember 3 and 4 throwing around primitive for example), but usually it's in the context of a companion's limited viewpoint. Otherwise it's simply putting them at a conversational disadvantage so he can keep hogging the agenda. He's really a non-sweary Tucker, its the same M.O. After all, a hero without an audience is what, exactly?
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Sep 16, 2014 03:21
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Potsticker posted:
Yeah, basically. I could have had two or three more years of him, especially since his run had that horrible half season stuff happen to it.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:34
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I maintain to this day that Smiths half-seasons were the "half life 2, Episode 1/2" of television. Smaller projects, Delivered more cheaply and more quickly. Only they forgot two of those bits. "You'll never need to wait more than a few weeks for new 'Who'", Moffat said at the time (And i'm a massive moffat fan)
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Sep 16, 2014 03:42
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MattD1zzl3 posted:"You'll never need to wait more than a few weeks for new 'Who'" Yeah, if this turned out to be even remotely true I would've been fine with split seasons. Granted, I only started watching the show after season six had already aired, so I only had to put up with one split season.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:47
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Yeah, I liked Smith's take on the character a lot, and would not have complained in the least about more stories, but I am not sorry we have Capaldi now. For that matter, I liked David Tennant a lot, Chris Eccleston a lot, Paul McGann for the hour and a half or so I've seen of him (must listen to some of his audios), and...look, my favorite Doctor tends to be the one I've most recently seen, okay?
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Sep 16, 2014 03:58
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docbeard posted:For that matter, I liked David Tennant a lot, Chris Eccleston a lot, Paul McGann for the hour and a half or so I've seen of him (must listen to some of his audios), and...look, my favorite Doctor tends to be the one I've most recently seen, okay? Ain't nothing wrong with that. I feel the same way.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:53
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Jsor posted:Generally Capaldi is 12 and Hurt is "War". (And the Metacrisis which technically counted as a regeneration is generally 10-2 or "Rose's Realdoll")  One note though: Metacrises was NOT the extra regeneration. The 10-2 Doctor is the Doctor who looks like 10 who regenerated after he was shot by the Dalek. He put some of his regeneration energy (the part which gives him a new face/body) into his hand, which when touched by Donna grew into a human Doctor, like a worm tail regrowing a body and head.So the technical order of bodies is: 8-McGann 9-Hurt 10-Eccleston 11-Tennant 12-Another Tennant \____________________________Metacrisis Human Doctor 13-Smith 14-Capaldi Had there been a cut off Doctor body part or other receptacle laying around, presumably Smith could have pulled the same trick and kept the same face after healing his injuries and becoming young, when he had his final moment with Clara in the TARDIS (and hallucinated Amy). But without that, he had to finish and turn to Capaldi.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:02
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Astroman posted:
Maybe I'm kind of confused about what you're saying here, but... I just watched these episodes the other day, metacrisis human Doctor and 10-2 are the same person.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:10
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Astroman posted:
10-2 is the human doctor, yes. I consider Time-Lord 10 (post-metacrisis) and Human 10 (10-2), and to a lesser degree Doctor Donna as part of the "same regeneration." It's just easier to refer to 10-2 as the "extra regeneration" even though technically the "regenerated form" was the Time Lord body because 10-2 is the most obvious, visible change brought about by the regeneration.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:18
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Jsor posted:10-2 is the human doctor, yes. I consider Time-Lord 10 (post-metacrisis) and Human 10 (10-2), and to a lesser degree Doctor Donna as part of the "same regeneration." It's just easier to refer to 10-2 as the "extra regeneration" even though technically the "regenerated form" was the Time Lord body because 10-2 is the most obvious, visible change brought about by the regeneration. Ohh, this might have cleared up my confusion, but now I disagree with what was being said! I don't think using his regeneration energy just to heal his wounds is the same thing as regenerating into himself, the regeneration part of the energy was used up creating 10-2. Although it's been awhile since I watched Smith's explanation of his regenerations in Time of the Doctor.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:22
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thexerox123 posted:Maybe I'm kind of confused about what you're saying here, but... I just watched these episodes the other day, metacrisis human Doctor and 10-2 are the same person. There are 3 Doctors with Tennant's face. One was a Gallifreyan regenerated from the Eccleston form. One was a Gallifreyan regenerated from the Tennant form. The third was a human formed with Tennant's face and memories, out of Tennant's hand, residual regeneration energy, and Donna's DNA. There was a whole new regeneration after the Dalek shot, from Journey's End through the Specials it's an entirely new Doctor, he just kept the same form. It'd be like if the Time Lords forced 2 to regenerate at the end of the War Games (and Season 6b :iamafag: ) and exiled him to earth but he was able to keep the same face so that the Third Doctor was still played by Patrick Troughton.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:25
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Astroman posted:There was a whole new regeneration after the Dalek shot, from Journey's End through the Specials it's an entirely new Doctor, he just kept the same form. What are you basing this on? I think there are just 2. He specifically chose to vent the regeneration energy into his severed hand to avoid regenerating himself.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:34
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I really like Capaldi as the Doctor. I don't think he works as well for the whimsical Robot Hood stuff, but for the almost horror stuff and unsettling sci-fi stuff he just nails it.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:34
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thexerox123 posted:What are you basing this on? I think there are just 2. He specifically chose to vent the regeneration energy into his severed hand to avoid regenerating himself. The Doctor: No, not forever. I can change twelve times. Thirteen versions of me. Thirteen silly Doctors. Clara: Okay, so you're number Eleven. So ... The Doctor: Ha. Are we forgetting Captain Grumpy? Eh? I didn't call myself the Doctor during the Time War but it was still a regeneration. Clara: Okay, so you're number Twelve. The Doctor: Well Number Ten once regenerated and kept the same face. I had vanity issues at the time. Two 10s. 
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Sep 16, 2014 05:53
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surc posted:Is there still a general doctor who and/or classic doctor who thread? I am about to take the plunge and go full chronological through classic who and would like to have a place to talk about it. I love the classic show and I will talk about it until my face caves in and I have to develop a rudimentary sign language to continue to talk about it, so please share your thoughts and questions and ponderings about it as you go 
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Sep 16, 2014 05:55
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I just checked The Time of the Doctor, I'm guessing you're basing it on this line? "Well, number 10 once regenerated and kept the same face. I had vanity issues at the time." Pre-edit: Yeah, just saw your post. I still disagree... I think he's just simplifying things, instead of saying "Number 10 once started to regenerate, but didn't want to change, so vented his energy into a hand and grew a duplicate that is now in another dimension." In Journey's End, he says "Used the regeneration energy to heal myself, and as soon as that was done, I didn't need to change! I didn't want to, why would I? Look at me! So, to stop the energy going all the way, I siphoned all the rest into a handy nearby receptacle!" He started to regenerate, and a regeneration was used up, but it was used up on the hand, not on himself, he stopped it before he himself regenerated. Note: Matt Smith also used regeneration energy to heal River Song in The Angels Take Manhattan, and that didn't count towards his regenerations. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 05:58
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thexerox123 posted:What are you basing this on? I think there are just 2. He specifically chose to vent the regeneration energy into his severed hand to avoid regenerating himself. Nah thexerox123 is right on this one - the 10th Doctor didn't regenerate, he just used up the regeneration energy and created the (terrible idea of the) meta-crisis half-human Doctor thing as part of the completely unnecessary and ill-thought out "happy ending" for Rose. It was a big ol' mess and I wish it had never happened, but it did. The 10th Doctor very explicitly didn't change, but Time of the Doctor clarifies that he still expended the regeneration energy that was apparently set aside to turn him into his next incarnation.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:10
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Also come on guys. MetaCrisis Doctor is Handy. We discussed this, like, threads ago.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:12
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Hey guys, I like Doctor Who a lot and I like watching the current Doctor. He and his companion are very funny when they trade barbs. Well, that's my contribution to the thread. Thanks for listening.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:17
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I really enjoyed the shots at the start of Listen where the Doctor was chilling in/near in the void of space or the bottom of the ocean just to indulge his eccentricities.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:21
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Roach Warehouse posted:I really enjoyed the shots at the start of Listen where the Doctor was chilling in/near in the void of space or the bottom of the ocean just to indulge his eccentricities. If I were the Doctor, I'd do this just to show off. 'Oh, I had breakfast while overlooking a binary star system, no biggie.' EDIT: Rory's dad eating lunch while sitting at the TARDIS doors, looking down at the Earth, was pretty much the best thing. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 06:26
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Cleretic posted:If I were the Doctor, I'd do this just to show off. 'Oh, I had breakfast while overlooking a binary star system, no biggie.' "I have… seen things you people wouldn't believe… Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. Then I had breakfast. All those… moments… will be lost in time, like [small cough]... socks in a dryer. They'll probably turn up eventually."
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Sep 16, 2014 06:31
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ProfessorLoomis posted:Oh my god. The Doctor is just bustin' clara's balls, like all friends do with each other. Oh my god. We live in THIS universe, where Doctor Who is a show, and because it's a show millions of people are watching, every comment made contains cultural subtext and baggage. When The Doctor "busts Clara's balls," he attacks her appearance. What assumptions is Moffat making about women and society when this is the case? And make no mistake. They're assumptions. He's not being malicious, I don't think. He's operating under a series of societal assumptions that are incredibly harmful. And I don't enjoy seeing The Doctor be sexist like that. A lot of us don't. But when you continuously make arguments that this conversation shouldn't take place, you point out exactly why it should. Most people don't think about the assumptions, and confronting them is so terrifying for some that even pointing them out causes five pages of vitriol in an otherwise usually pretty chill thread, comparatively speaking. It's very sad, and I'm glad it's happening, but I wish everybody (myself included, mind. I'm not special) could have any kind of discourse about topics like this without it devolving into a shouting match at Parliament.
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Sep 16, 2014 07:16
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LividLiquid posted:But when you continuously make arguments that this conversation shouldn't take place, you point out exactly why it should. Most people don't think about the assumptions, and confronting them is so terrifying for some that even pointing them out causes five pages of vitriol in an otherwise usually pretty chill thread, comparatively speaking. I think you're massively exaggerating things/perceiving them weirdly. I didn't see any vitriol, mostly just exasperation with the topic going on and on and on. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 07:19
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