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Grimpond posted:It is unfair to people who actually suffer from OCD to claim this. and D&D Next, 5e, and just D&D are all correct since they were used officially to describe the same product at different points in its development and lifecycle. I am serious. As for were the monster came from. It came from a toy, Gygax's mind and produced this comic in a first ed book.  Here is the toy with a few other classic d&d monsters. 
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 03:24
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Now all we need are those creatures that are basically floating mines that look like Beholders to trick adventurers into attacking them so they explode in their face. Hopefully with a lot of pointlessly wordy text describing how they explode or some nonsense too.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:24
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goldjas posted:Now all we need are those creatures that are basically floating mines that look like Beholders to trick adventurers into attacking them so they explode in their face. Hopefully with a lot of pointlessly wordy text describing how they explode or some nonsense too. Gas Spores are confirmed to be in the book. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 03:27
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Fun fact: When a rust monster tries to eat your shield, drop it! It will be safe because it's not being carried or worn!Slimnoid posted:Supposedly Gygax (or one of his crew) made it up after using some cheapo toy figure that resembled the rust monster as we know it.  This is the crown jewel of my miniatures collection.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:28
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goldjas posted:Now all we need are those creatures that are basically floating mines that look like Beholders to trick adventurers into attacking them so they explode in their face. Hopefully with a lot of pointlessly wordy text describing how they explode or some nonsense too. MonsterEnvy posted:Gas Spores are confimermed to be in the book. Solid Jake posted:FINALLY, a monster to take melee Fighters down a peg! Someone should actually go through the MM and find out how many non-CR0 monsters are built exclusively around punishing melee fighters.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:29
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moths posted:Fun fact: When a rust monster tries to eat your shield, drop it! It will be safe because it's not being carried or worn! Is there any GM on earth who's this absurdly literal though?
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Sep 17, 2014 03:29
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Yeah, taking an action to make it so the rust monster has to destroy a 1ft cube of your shield with no save is a great alternative.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:30
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Is there any GM on earth who's this absurdly literal though? "I must remind you the system is not called D&D Next, that was the name of the playtest." Wasn't the Rust Monster created as a passive-aggressive way to take away magic items a DM realized were 'too good' or that the PCs 'shouldn't have'?
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Sep 17, 2014 03:31
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Grimpond posted:Where did this stupid idea for a monster even originate? How could anyone at any edition of D&D look at that and think it would be fun or fair to use?! NorgLyle fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 03:32
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ProfessorCirno posted:Someone should actually go through the MM and find out how many non-CR0 monsters are built exclusively around punishing melee fighters. Gelatinous Cubes were neigh-invisible to absorb the first person to walk into them. Remind me who's got point in marching order again?
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Sep 17, 2014 03:37
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For fun the toys and their monsters and how they look now.     
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Sep 17, 2014 03:38
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Cant we just rule that the Crossbow feats give you training and the ability to rig up some kind of autoloading device for your hamd crossbow?
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Sep 17, 2014 03:39
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The rust monster can't even eat magical gear? Who's this game for, children?
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Sep 17, 2014 03:40
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Sep 17, 2014 03:45
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Night10194 posted:Wasn't the Rust Monster created as a passive-aggressive way to take away magic items a DM realized were 'too good' or that the PCs 'shouldn't have'? No. It was just created on a whim. Alongside the Owlbear. moths posted:Gelatinous Cubes were neigh-invisible to absorb the first person to walk into them. Remind me who's got point in marching order again? The thief. Or the hireling if you can convince them.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:47
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goldjas posted:
I love the way that they basically describe the rusting effect twice just in a slightly different way
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Sep 17, 2014 03:52
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Ferrinus posted:The rust monster can't even eat magical gear? Who's this game for, children? Well, it's not like anyone needs magical gear in Next.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:56
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Serious post: how many of you ever encountered a rust monster while playing? I've been doing this poo poo since 2004 and never ever EVER dealt with a goddamn rust monster, as a player or as a DM in search of poo poo to throw at my players.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:15
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crime fighting hog posted:Serious post: how many of you ever encountered a rust monster while playing? I've been doing this poo poo since 2004 and never ever EVER dealt with a goddamn rust monster, as a player or as a DM in search of poo poo to throw at my players. Not once, but if you want to use it. It is in every edition of D&D.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:16
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I'd ask "Why is it in every edition of D&D?" but that's more of a discussion towards legacy, sacred cows and stuff and I'll leave it for grognards.txt but I never understood the function of it. It exists solely as a "gently caress you" to anyone (melee classes) who rely on weapons to deal damage. Was there an edition where fighters were so OP they needed the occasional check against them like this? I'm genuinely curious.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:19
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crime fighting hog posted:Serious post: how many of you ever encountered a rust monster while playing? I've been doing this poo poo since 2004 and never ever EVER dealt with a goddamn rust monster, as a player or as a DM in search of poo poo to throw at my players. Also rust monsters were fairly common in the original Rogue, where they went by the name "Aquator"
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Sep 17, 2014 04:25
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crime fighting hog posted:Serious post: how many of you ever encountered a rust monster while playing? I've been doing this poo poo since 2004 and never ever EVER dealt with a goddamn rust monster, as a player or as a DM in search of poo poo to throw at my players. Once, in 3.5. It promptly ruined the head of my dwarf barbarian's axe, but given that Urist McAxebeard gave exactly zero fucks about anything that wasn't ale or skulls, promptly killed it by jamming the haft of his axe into the creature's skull. There's this kind of unspoken gentleman's agreement that obviously unfun monsters are best left off the table.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:35
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crime fighting hog posted:I'd ask "Why is it in every edition of D&D?" but that's more of a discussion towards legacy, sacred cows and stuff and I'll leave it for grognards.txt but I never understood the function of it. It exists solely as a "gently caress you" to anyone (melee classes) who rely on weapons to deal damage. Was there an edition where fighters were so OP they needed the occasional check against them like this? I'm genuinely curious.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:39
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I think it's silly to assume Rust Monsters and the like exist to 'balance' Fighters. I know it's a commonly held belief that every rule that makes Fighters suck a little more was installed by the gently caress Fighters Wizards Rule Cabal, but that's not really the case. Most information from Gygax's table is anecdotal but it sounds like most monsters were either created whole-cloth from some weird fever dream the guy had or it was created in response to a boring, repetitive task one of his players had gotten into the habit of doing. "I hit is with my sword" is pretty dull, and trying to scramble for a sharp stick or a club and trying to keep some distance from the thing is actually kind of neat. I'm not defending DnD's design, of course, because that's not very good design. At the very least I'd like to see a monster that eats spell levels or something. NorgLyle posted:Yes, fighters used to be amazing. It's hard to even describe how thoroughly the 3rd edition changes (not just to wizards but to thieves as well) wrecked the... I won't call it balance but wrecked the way the game used to work. Fighters, at one point, were the primary source of enemy removal; they did the most damage of any class including dedicated blaster spellcasters (who could deal greater damage in area effect attacks), they were the most resilient characters (by a stupid degree if they had a high constitution to go along with their strength), they had, for the most part, the best set of saving throws and they were the only class who could easily achieve an AC that actually needed to be rolled against by higher level enemies. Wizard's spellbooks used to be somewhat justified simply because they were so dramatically inferior in combat encounters to fighters; Clerics in pre-2nd edition were generally pretty okay but never had enough spell slots to go insane with the buffs the way they could later on; Thieves were the odd man out -- if you could get them in situations where they could use their class abilities they were great but 'you open the door and see seven bugbears, roll for initiative' was usually pretty bad for them, backstab was not as functional as sneak attack. Also this. Plus Rogues leveled so much quicker than everybody else that it almost didn't matter that they were strictly an inferior option - they pulled ahead in hit dice after a while even if they lacked a good-sized die.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:41
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crime fighting hog posted:Serious post: how many of you ever encountered a rust monster while playing? I've been doing this poo poo since 2004 and never ever EVER dealt with a goddamn rust monster, as a player or as a DM in search of poo poo to throw at my players. In one game a party member basically pulled a Full Metal Alchemist and when he died got his soul bound in an Iron Golem, so as a joke our DM had a rust monster guard the door to a place after he was getting cocky about getting past other traps easier. The rust monster near instantly died when the door swung open to reveal the big bad so it wasn't much of an 'encounter' just a way to make him go 'aw poo poo' for a sec.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:58
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moths posted:Fun fact: When a rust monster tries to eat your shield, drop it! It will be safe because it's not being carried or worn! Take better care of your cast iron pans, you monster.
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Sep 17, 2014 05:08
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The occasional puzzle / hazard monster can be really fun. I think part of the problem is that they aren't updated for modern campaign design, and instead function just like the dungeoneering puzzles they used to be. Bill The Generic Fighter gets his sword eaten, you flail around the dungeon for a bit and quickly roll up a new one. Maybe hide your Magic Sword of Asskicking +2 so you don't get disappointed by losing some especially good loot. Legendary Hero Wolfgang losing his ancestral family axe to some half-bit random encounter and being useless for an entire game session because his character is designed around axefighting? Not nearly as fun. Its the same reason why rolling stats, random loot tables, save-or-dies, weight requirements, and most kinds of trap are also falling heavily out of favor. They're great for a dungeon crawler, but terrible for a sprawling epic.
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Sep 17, 2014 05:32
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Also, puzzle monsters are kind of bullshit when they've been in every rulebook of every edition in the game for the last FORTY YEARS. A gas spore is the least surprising surprise monster imaginable. Let's use WIZARD SPORES instead.
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Sep 17, 2014 05:47
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crime fighting hog posted:Serious post: how many of you ever encountered a rust monster while playing? I've been doing this poo poo since 2004 and never ever EVER dealt with a goddamn rust monster, as a player or as a DM in search of poo poo to throw at my players. In our Eberron 4E game, which takes place at Morgrave University, we fought rust monsters with magic missile projectors embedded in their foreheads during the section of finals designed by the warforged Mythiobiology professor, along with rats injected with a serum that resulted in them being constantly on fire and a gelatinous cube with a time bomb inside of it.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:01
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xiw posted:Also, puzzle monsters are kind of bullshit when they've been in every rulebook of every edition in the game for the last FORTY YEARS.  Do the WIZARD SPORES burst open to release wizards?
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Sep 17, 2014 06:07
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MonsterEnvy posted:For fun the toys and their monsters and how they look now. Holy hell, I owned that toy when I was kid. I distinctly remember playing with it when I was kid. I always thought it looked a little creepy as a kid. Who would think I was playing with a rust monster?
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Sep 17, 2014 06:13
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NachtSieger posted:
There's an Oglaf for that!   Obviously not safe for work.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:37
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Covok posted:Holy hell, I owned that toy when I was kid. I distinctly remember playing with it when I was kid. I always thought it looked a little creepy as a kid. Who would think I was playing with a rust monster? Holy hell, me too! Where did the original toy come from? I remember bending back its stupid feelers!
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Sep 17, 2014 06:38
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Ratoslov posted:There's an Oglaf for that! Yeah, we don't need wizard spores. Wizards are bad enough already.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:42
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Serdain posted:Holy hell, me too! Hong Kong  It was a crappy dinosaur toy set that Gygax picked up and made three monsters out of.
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Sep 17, 2014 06:51
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moths posted:Gelatinous Cubes were neigh-invisible to absorb the first person to walk into them. Remind me who's got point in marching order again? Gygax: Why is my game turning into the weird wizard show, argh!
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Sep 17, 2014 07:34
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With its comparatively minor punishments I can see how the rust monster would be interesting to run into in the right context. Picture this: "You approach a cave and see that the ground is littered with scraps of metal and pitted scraps of swords/armor. While most of it appears to be worthless - there is some that appears to only have a superficial coating of rust. As you venture further in, you can see a set of antennae attached to some kind of satanic armadillo that is happily chewing on a scimitar that turns to red dust in its mouth. Without seeming to take much notice of you, it waddles further back into the cave and vanishes around a corner." Then your players can comfortably witness the consequences of fighting the Rust Bug and have plenty of spare weapons/armour they can use lying around. Worst case - they can go and get some rocks to bash its stupid head in and find that it was keeping a horde of indigestible magic weapons! Or piles of gold it didn't really enjoy eating cause gold is less ferrous! That having been said - the risk of new DMs throwing them at a low-level party still exists and not warning them is still stupid.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:05
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Serdain posted:That having been said - the risk of new DMs throwing them at a low-level party still exists and not warning them is still stupid. The Dwarf Paladin saying he nearly lost faith because of Rust Monster eating his weapons is a decent warning. As is the thing were it says they fear them more then a squad of Orcs.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Dwarf Paladin saying he nearly lost faith because of Rust Monster eating his weapons is a decent warning. As is the thing were it says they fear them more then a squad of Orcs. Agree this might serve as some warning. However, I still think it's very likely that new DMs will read that with the same flavour as "Dwarves are scared of oceans" and "Orcs are scared of Tea Parties". That is to say, the race has a particular reason to hate it rather than the thing itself being threatening. It's this kind of in-built racism that makes it hard to tell when something is hated because its a universal threat or hated because all Good characters in D&D are racist bigots, while Evil characters will work with anyone and learn to love anything. It takes a truly Evil character to be Good.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:53
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Lord of Bore posted:Note that aside from the whip, all martial melee weapons are made of metal or have metal heads in the case of spears, flails and the like (unless you try and claim your maul is made of stone). Hope you packed a staff or a club or something. You could reverse a spear and use it as a staff?
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