|
While we're talking about Hank, was Waid the first one to write him explicitly with Bipolar Disorder? I...actually really appreciated that, and the whole character just sort of clicked for me at that point.
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2014 23:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 08:41 |
|
|
Dreqqus posted:While we're talking about Hank, was Waid the first one to write him explicitly with Bipolar Disorder? I...actually really appreciated that, and the whole character just sort of clicked for me at that point. When was this?
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 02:18
|
|
|
notthegoatseguy posted:When was this? Pretty sure it was Avengers AI. Interesting idea, but a bit late on the "everyone must redeem Pym" train and sure to be forgotten.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 02:56
|
|
|
Wolpertinger posted:Uh, apparently I touched on a sore subject or something here, and I haven't read Avengers Arena but from the 20?ish issues I read, Academy seemed to focus mostly on a few specific characters from what I've read it seems like a good number of the main cast proceeded to move on into Arena, where they are either killed or turned into traumatized wrecks with PTSD which just seems kinda tasteless all around for a sequel what was a pretty light story. It's like writing a sequel to a children's book where all the main characters are forced to kill each other. I admit that you're a different case I guess in the sense that you're reading Avengers Academy right now and saying it feels like a lighthearted childrens' book, and I haven't read it since it came out, but the entire plot of the book is that the Avengers are recruiting a bunch of messed up kids they are concerned will turn out to be supervillains. That's the elevator pitch, day one. Over the course of the book characters actually DO go evil, we see alternate timelines where they are villainous scumbags, several characters choose to start murdering people, they fight in a couple of wars, a few people die. It's a book with an ultimately hopeful message, but it's still a book about messed up kids and how everyone worries they're going to become villains. So putting them in a series of books where they might be forced to kill and contemplate turning evil doesn't strike me as some sort of fundamental violation of their core concept. I get it if you're sad that one of them dies or you feel like the book isn't very well written or whatever. But I can't understand why people treat it as the most horrible comic ever published in a world where Nick Spencer, Ales Kot, Gail Simone, Daniel Way, Dan Slott, Jeph Loeb, Geoff Johns, Scott Snyder, and a dozen other writers with worse track records than Hopeless continue to get regular work. It's not even a very successful book and anyone who wants to can politely ignore it the next time they want to pretend no one ever changes and have Hazmat in a Hazmat suit wishing she could butterfly kiss Mettle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 04:55
|
|
|
I recall he also did that thing where he just hosed with, taunted and raged on people who complained about the quality of the writing; on his twitter or some such. Arguing with your fans is not a great idea. He had some good will as well because his run on Cable and X-Force showed he was competent but trying to defend what is a lovely premise to tie into a major movie at the cost of killing characters for no reason with a terrible main villian was doomed from the start and instead of even towing the company line or throwing the job under the bus he got incredbly defensive and acted like his poo poo was gold.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 05:37
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:Ales Kot,and Scott Snyder with worse track records than Hopeless continue to get regular work. What have they written that is worse than Avengers Arena?
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 05:42
|
|
|
Gawd, Avengers Arena was awful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 05:49
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:I recall he also did that thing where he just hosed with, taunted and raged on people who complained about the quality of the writing; on his twitter or some such. Arguing with your fans is not a great idea. He had some good will as well because his run on Cable and X-Force showed he was competent but trying to defend what is a lovely premise to tie into a major movie at the cost of killing characters for no reason with a terrible main villian was doomed from the start and instead of even towing the company line or throwing the job under the bus he got incredbly defensive and acted like his poo poo was gold. bobkatt013 posted:What have they written that is worse than Avengers Arena?
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 06:06
|
|
|
Unless you are Dennis Hopeless this is the weirdest loving thing to be obsessed over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 06:12
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Unless you are Dennis Hopeless this is the weirdest loving thing to be obsessed over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 06:16
|
|
|
I never read Arena or Undercover but I read his Cable and X-Force and loved it. So he's alright in my book.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 06:57
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I honestly don't remember any of that, I remember him saying that it wasn't his idea but he was happy with how it turned out but again, short of killing himself while skywriting I'M THE BIGGEST PIECE OF poo poo EVER across the entire sky would be considered 'taunting' the fans and 'thinking his poo poo doesn't stink' and 'writing a big gently caress you to the fans'. I could be wrong and maybe someone has a better memory than me(of better twitter-fu) but I seem to recall he basically went off about how he was "telling a story and gently caress your favorite characters or their characterization". Again I read Avengers Arena, it wasn't great but a lot of these guys just need to block fans on Twitter or make a fanpage account where they don't interact beyond "hey believers, here's another one of my comics!". Bendis is another good example of this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 06:59
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:I could be wrong and maybe someone has a better memory than me(of better twitter-fu) but I seem to recall he basically went off about how he was "telling a story and gently caress your favorite characters or their characterization". Again I read Avengers Arena, it wasn't great but a lot of these guys just need to block fans on Twitter or make a fanpage account where they don't interact beyond "hey believers, here's another one of my comics!". Bendis is another good example of this. Do you mean Bendis is an example of someone who just has a fanpage and blocks people? I am pretty sure Slott is an example of someone who will search you down if you insult him.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 07:03
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Do you mean Bendis is an example of someone who just has a fanpage and blocks people? I am pretty sure Slott is an example of someone who will search you down if you insult him. Sure, Slott is a good example of someone who doesn't deal with criticism well. Bendis blocks detractors and then jokes about his lovely writing in interviews.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 07:47
|
|
|
Bendis is one of my least favorite writers to have ever received work, but I've always thought he had a pretty cool personality.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 09:28
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:I could be wrong and maybe someone has a better memory than me(of better twitter-fu) but I seem to recall he basically went off about how he was "telling a story and gently caress your favorite characters or their characterization". Again I read Avengers Arena, it wasn't great but a lot of these guys just need to block fans on Twitter or make a fanpage account where they don't interact beyond "hey believers, here's another one of my comics!". Bendis is another good example of this. This is posted on October 12, 2013 right after someone links to an interview with him, which is the most milquetoast "I hope people will give this book a shot, I was uneasy about how I would handle the tone of Arena but I think I did okay" PR piece in the world. But if someone really wants to track down Hopeless "flipping the gently caress out" I guess it happened some time before October 12, 2013, assuming it happened? I did find his 'wrap up' interview about the project from a little bit after, which I guess is him addressing things: quote:Arena was a challenging project from the very beginning. Like I said in that letter to fans, it's not a concept I would have pitched on my own. I was hesitant to write a story based on such a dark concept using fan favorite characters I've loved for years. But the result was a book that really tested me as a writer and brought out some of the deepest character work I've ever done. It really has been the highlight of my career. Oh wait towards the end of the livechat thing he does say "I really expected more "Why are you so dumb?" and "Why do you like murdering children?" questions by now." That's literally the shittiest thing I can find him saying about 'the fans', which is incredibly reserved in comparison to say, 'the fans'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I went back and read all six pages of the Avengers Arena thread on here and considering it's 90% people saying that they hate the book and hate Hopeless and gently caress this book and gently caress this writing and gently caress this writer and gently caress this gay earth the only time anyone mentions Hopeless (outside of calling him a hack and a charlatan and a morally compromised person who did a decent Cable but gently caress HIM) is Onmi saying "Yes so the sequel to the editorially mandated shitpile must be AMAZING, especially when the writer has been completely flipping the gently caress out on anyone who happens to dislike this book." Again, my memory could be off, the tweets could have been deleted(although I would think that people would have reported that) but I have a strong memory of him, not "flipping the gently caress out", but not handling criticism in a very professional manner, I searched his twitter for stuff with the #avengersarena and didn't come up with anything but I also didn't google search or search any other comic forums. It's not really worth the energy because... I think at the end of the day you're right. There's a lot of hyperbole tossed around and particularly at that time people were really pissed off about the whole ordeal. Avengers Academy had just ended and was really well liked, not Runaways level(which also pissed people off) but it had a lot of goodwill and strong feelings for those characters. To see them tossed into a throw away comic that was being marketed to appeal to a new generation simply by the virtue of being similar to another popular franchise, with the promise that some of those characters would die was a big slap in the face to the fans. Could Hopeless have done better in the position? Yes. Would people still have hated him? Yes. There was no way around that. The dude was put in a position where he had to shoot your family's So there you go. You're right, he's not an evil monster nor the worst writer ever. ...and to be honest I'd rather reread Avengers Arena than reread Bendis' X-Men. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Sep 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
^^^^ I think part of the crap of Bendis' X-Men is many of us know he can be a better writer. Even though his Bendis-isms are in much of his early work with Marvel it is still pretty good stuff. In contrast, I was never thinking "Man, I expected better from Hopeless who wrote a great series of whatever" because...well, he hasn't written a good series as far as I'm concerned. Maybe Hopeless is some great, incredibly talented writer that was steering a destined to be sinking ship. I just scanned through his Marvel credits and nothing struck me as anything good. Maybe not offensively bad like Arena was at times, but nothing I'd want to spend money on (I recognize Cable and the X-Force is something most people here disagree with me on). But I read that one issue of AA penned by Gage and it was pretty good. Of course it also treated the "adult" superheroes as not bumbling idiots. That Hopeless isn't a literal monster really doesn't change anything. Avengers Arena is still a garbage series. I'll take others at their word that Hopeless' grasp of Zemo is good characterization but that really doesn't make up for the rest of the series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 18:24
|
|
|
TRO: You know it's the future because everyone has different haircuts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
I love how Hickman plays with all these new characters but it's obvious who his favorite team is. Susan's helmet looks awfully similar to Ultimate Reed's. Oh, and Cho and Pym are illuminati now? Neat-o. .
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 16:13
|
|
|
Thorperion is my OTP.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 16:22
|
|
|
Hyperion was giving me some serious Kingdom Come Superman vibes. Visually at least.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
I find it weird that Marvel is putting out both .1 issues and Annuals despite them often fitting the same one-off story by a different writer niche.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
There are a lot of questions I have about this book (Avengers 35) that can't be answered for a while obviously. But there's one I'm going to ask here anyway. When Star Brand was talking with Nightmask about The Bleed. Isn't that a DC thing? I don't recall anything like that in Marvel but it's quite obvious I've missed something along the way. Or was it a New Universe thing they're bringing up?
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
This was a pretty cool issue, and I can't wait for more. But I really like the new shield costumes, even though they're mainly just black versions of their old ones. Carols costume looks rad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
Deadpool posted:There are a lot of questions I have about this book (Avengers 35) that can't be answered for a while obviously. But there's one I'm going to ask here anyway. When Star Brand was talking with Nightmask about The Bleed. Isn't that a DC thing? I don't recall anything like that in Marvel but it's quite obvious I've missed something along the way. Or was it a New Universe thing they're bringing up? I think they are talking about the stuff inbetween universes that was shown deteriorating at the beginning of Infinity or early in Avengers or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
Senor Candle posted:I think they are talking about the stuff inbetween universes that was shown deteriorating at the beginning of Infinity or early in Avengers or something. Avengers #9 I think is where we see the super flow. It wasn't referred as the Bleed, though. Leper Residue posted:Carols costume looks rad. Susan's looking really. And incredibly pissed. Which is really I need to know to know the Illuminati are hosed. Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 21:45
|
|
|
Rereading it and Sue is super brutal. She rips the Illuminati beacon right out of Cho's palm with a force field.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
I love a good (short) time jump. Nothing like a good "ooo! How did things get this hosed?" to kick your day off. Love the additions to the Illuminati and can not wait for the next issue.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 22:32
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I can't understand why people treat it as the most horrible comic ever published in a world where Ales Kot continue to get regular work.  Really liked Avengers #35, when a time-jump like this is done well it can be a pretty great hook. Bradshaw kinda bothers me though because everyone looks like a teenager. It'll be interesting to see if/how events from the gap get revealed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 23:23
|
|
|
tragedyjones posted:Rereading it and Sue is super brutal. She rips the Illuminati beacon right out of Cho's palm with a force field. Whoa, I didn't realize that was what was happening at first. That is a serious chunk of flesh she rips out too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
Deadpool posted:There are a lot of questions I have about this book (Avengers 35) that can't be answered for a while obviously. But there's one I'm going to ask here anyway. When Star Brand was talking with Nightmask about The Bleed. Isn't that a DC thing? I don't recall anything like that in Marvel but it's quite obvious I've missed something along the way. Or was it a New Universe thing they're bringing up? Weirdly Warren Ellis stuck that poo poo in I think New Universe, as he came up with the idea of The Bleed in Stormwatch.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
Leper Residue posted:Whoa, I didn't realize that was what was happening at first. That is a serious chunk of flesh she rips out too. Jesus, I didn't get that either. Angry Sue is scary.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 23:59
|
|
|
hope and vaseline posted:Jesus, I didn't get that either. Angry Sue is scary. This has been the case forever. Don't ever piss off Sue Richards. She will ruin you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
It is kind of amazing the parallels that Avengers and Multiversity seem to make towards each other on the same day. It's almost like they planned it. e: This has a completely baiting headline, but the third and fourth pictures are the examples. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/09...iversity-today/ Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Sep 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:08
|
|
|
I wonder if we'll see Medusa and Meggan also side with Sue against their husbands.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:10
|
|
|
I love how the recap page lists how the theme of the Avenger's (apart from being life) was about dealing with problems through expansion and diversity and working as a group to overcome problems. While the Illumaniti's method of dealing with problems is secrecy and trusting a group of Elites to do everything, and don't you dare question them. One minor question. This issue of Avenger's is supposed to be set 8 months in the future, fine. That's why Starbrand and Nightmask are out in space (and Nightmask is reverse aging.) cool. That's why Hyperion has a beard and working alongside AIM. Fine, I get all that. Going into the future that is WEIRD is a comic thing. (And brilliantly it allows Hickman to finish his story while sidestepping Axis, cool.) But how come Cannonball and Smasher can marry, move off world and she can get knocked up and have a baby all in 8 months?
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:14
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:But how come Cannonball and Smasher can marry, move off world and she can get knocked up and have a baby all in 8 months? Maybe they got married because of the baby.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:16
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:I love how the recap page lists how the theme of the Avenger's (apart from being life) was about dealing with problems through expansion and diversity and working as a group to overcome problems. I'm pretty sure it was implied during Infinity (I think) that the two were in a relationship. Teenage Fansub posted:It is kind of amazing the parallels that Avengers and Multiversity seem to make towards each other on the same day. It's almost like they planned it. This gets me giddy with fanboy optimism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 08:41 |
|
|
Leper Residue posted:I'm pretty sure it was implied during Infinity (I think) that the two were in a relationship. It was not implied it was outright stated, and with Bobby being jealous.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 00:41
|
|