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jBrereton posted:No, it's totally valid, so long as you don't need them to do something in the first 3 years. Well I was just thinking that (iirc) since thugs don't really work before you get magic items on them, would creating an imprisoned Nataraja with an eye towards turning her into a mid-game supercombatant be a bad idea? E: this is for ragha btw Also I keep getting beaten by independents in the slowbrains game as Arcocephale because those goddamn hoplites and hypaspists cost so many bloody resources and I can't afford to raise them 
Kurnugia fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 17:42
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Kurnugia posted:Well I was just thinking that (iirc) since thugs don't really work before you get magic items on them, would creating an imprisoned Nataraja with an eye towards turning her into a mid-game supercombatant be a bad idea? It would indeed be a bad idea. Generally, you take an imprisoned pretender to pay for a strong bless. In most other situations you are better off taking it awake to expand or possibly asleep if you need the extra points and don't intend to use your god to expand. For arco, you should take an awake god in any age most of the time. You will be resource locked and the god really helps kickstart your expansion. In MA/LA 5ish elephants and a distraction squad can clear most indies but you need to clear some of your cap circle so you can make elephants at a reasonable rate. In EA you are probably going to get rushed by some heavily blessed moron next door so do whatever! Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 17:46
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New idea: Throne of Music
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Sep 16, 2014 17:56
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Speleothing posted:New idea: Throne of Music Throne of the Necrodancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0u6FFlrmUA
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Sep 16, 2014 18:00
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Nuclearmonkee posted:It would indeed be a bad idea. Generally, you take an imprisoned pretender to pay for a strong bless. In most other situations you are better off taking it awake to expand or possibly asleep if you need the extra points and don't intend to use your god to expand. And I'm early era with a non-combat pretender, it's the 3rd turn and I've conquered a single province. This is going to end well.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:04
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Re: imprisoned pretenders, my opinion is at this point in the 'meta' you typically want: 1) A major bless for your sacreds. This is usually done on a dormant or imprisoned pretender. 2) Or an awake PG 3) Or both an awake PG and a major bless with awful scales. I feel this is weaker in larger games that typically go long, though. You can still expand well without either of those things, but your first fights vs other players will be tough. And of course there are a few nations that are exceptions to the rule. MA Ulm and LA Midgard are good examples - their troops alone do just fine against enemy armies early on.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:29
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Have Some Flowers! posted:Re: imprisoned pretenders, my opinion is at this point in the 'meta' you typically want: And then you have nations like Lemuria, where having an imprisoned pretender is simply suicide in multiplayer. Or you nead a really, really large map to prevent geting rushed before you can empower your shadow tribune enough to summon your mages. You could say those kind of nations are exceptions on the other side, since there's no way you could survive when you cripple your bad research even further. Add to that the fact you have chaff very vulnerable against priests and you really don't want to start a game with waiting a couple turns until you can start doing more then move your single leader around. 
Libluini fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 19:07
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Kurnugia posted:Well I was just thinking that (iirc) since thugs don't really work before you get magic items on them, would creating an imprisoned Nataraja with an eye towards turning her into a mid-game supercombatant be a bad idea? Sloth 3 Magic 3 Awake Sage Philosopher spam build erryday
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Sep 16, 2014 19:26
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Kurnugia posted:Well I was just thinking that (iirc) since thugs don't really work before you get magic items on them, would creating an imprisoned Nataraja with an eye towards turning her into a mid-game supercombatant be a bad idea? That's a lot stuff to have to cover alongside an Astral hole on a hundred-point pretender.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:29
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Kurnugia posted:Is it a really bad idea to start with an imprisoned pretender? I think a better question would be to ask who picks a dormant Pretender? I have the feeling that people takes an awake Pretender if they need it for initial expansion, or a imprisioned one if they don't need one and want all the points for scales, a multiple bless, whatever. edit: lol, I mistyped who for how. Fixed. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 20:00
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Libluini posted:Not anymore. Instead I'll have to set my level 3 death mages to call god for a couple turns. (They're secretly also level 3 priests.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:07
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Libluini posted:Not anymore. Instead I'll have to set my level 3 death mages to call god for a couple turns. (They're secretly also level 3 priests. Someone claimed the throne of winter so I can't recruit my D mages anymore since iirc it keeps making the world colder.  Also lol expecting me to do anything other than turtle up like an insane survivalist
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Sep 16, 2014 20:17
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Kitfox88 posted:Someone claimed the throne of winter so I can't recruit my D mages anymore since iirc it keeps making the world colder. Something I learned to play better: Do PD only in moderation. Do forts in moderation. (It's expensive enough to fort every province I consider important, so I always shake my head at people building even more forts than me.) Sure, turtling up makes it harder to conquer you, but you waste a lot of ressources better spend elsewhere. This is why normally only spend enough PD to get additonal unrest reduction + enough PD for automatic patrolling in important provinces. Enough to slow down raiding and killing off the occasional scout. Everything else just delays the inevitable: A strong army you can't counter because you spend so much gold on PD instead of units/mages. On the other hand, it sure is funny seeing a raiding force getting swamped by scrub-tier indies just because someone bought a shitload of PD just before the attack.
Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 20:34
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Turin Turambar posted:I think a better question would be to ask who picks a dormant Pretender? I guess you could take a B9 Fountain of Blood dormant with high growth scales and then get at least a year of extra pop in on your capital before you want to break a nation into Blood a bit? That kind of thing?
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Sep 16, 2014 20:43
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Read the relevant Baalz guide and just use one of his recommended pretenders imo.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:03
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Libluini posted:Something I learned to play better: Do PD only in moderation. Do forts in moderation. (It's expensive enough to fort every province I consider important, so I always shake my head at people building even more forts than me.) Sure, turtling up makes it harder to conquer you, but you waste a lot of ressources better spend elsewhere. This is why normally only spend enough PD to get additonal unrest reduction + enough PD for automatic patrolling in important provinces. Yeah, I know the joke is Kitfox PD but I've learned not to put 50+ in every one of my provinces by now. Only the important ones or as insurance against pretender/thug attacks I know are coming in a very immediate future 
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Sep 16, 2014 21:42
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Turin Turambar posted:I think a better question would be to ask who picks a dormant Pretender? I have the feeling that people takes an awake Pretender if they need it for initial expansion, or a imprisioned one if they don't need one and want all the points for scales, a multiple bless, whatever. Scales/Rainbow pretenders seems to be very viable for some nations that have glaring holes in their magic. Getting up a pretender with a couple of 4's to bootstrap your magic to somewhere it's actually good. SC pretenders can also be dormant for extra points, since you wont have any gear ready for them before then. Imprisoned SC seems risky, as by then you will probably have needed it and are far past the point where you can reliably gear it.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:51
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Kurnugia posted:Is it a really bad idea to start with an imprisoned pretender? Yes
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Sep 16, 2014 22:09
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Decrepus posted:Read the relevant Baalz guide and just use one of his recommended pretenders imo. Death scales and an awake lich with 3 crosspaths incoming
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Sep 17, 2014 04:46
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Looking at UW nations today... Look at the move points. In their natural habitat, water, they move fast swimming (22) but somehow they move only 1 province per turn in the map. And their more clunky land shape is the other way around: they move slower (10) but they can move 2 provinces per turn. It doesn't make sense to me. Usually all units have a proportional movement in province/combat. If a unit is low because his armor, he moves slowly in combat and in province movement, and he is fast (flying unit, cavalry) he is fast in both. Oversight? They should have move map 2 in their natural shape. And why the Starspawn is so expensive at 200 gold? He is just S1H2+1 random path. If you want S2 the Star Child is cheaper, if you want a priest the proper priest is cheaper, if you want a researcher the slave mage researches more thanks to W2S2+1 random and cost less! I'm starting to understand why UW nations are considered so weak.
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Sep 17, 2014 13:08
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No underwater units can move more than one province a turn, unless they're teleporters. I don't know why. The starspawn is expensive because you're paying for priest and magic and researcher and void sanity and basic illithid chassis including amphibious, mindblast, and all that misc poo poo. He's got a lot of stuff - he's not particularly flexible with it, but like it or not, you've got to pay for it. Also, unrelated, why are Shadow Vestals like 27 years old and referred to as "girls"? Honestly, Dominions 
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Sep 17, 2014 13:21
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scalded schlong posted:No underwater units can move more than one province a turn, unless they're teleporters. I don't know why. quote:Also, unrelated, why are Shadow Vestals like 27 years old and referred to as "girls"? Honestly, Dominions They are referred as girls because they explain how they are converted in Shadow Vestals in their youth, when they were girls. But the troops you are using are supposed to be older, they train for years, etc.
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Sep 17, 2014 13:29
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If someone wants to test something funny, I'm working on a mod with new and ludicrously powerful pretenders: This is seriously bad, don't klick this. I'm not really sure this mod would be a good idea in multiplayer however, since balance is one of those fancy words I don't know nothing about. -Some "Highlights": A horror-pretender based on the Vampire Queen, can summon other horrors. A life-draining tree. A female wizard with enough bonus-range for her rituals, she could compete with ballistic missiles and some other random crap. Libluini fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 14:59
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Turin Turambar posted:I'm starting to understand why UW nations are considered so weak. In addition to that, there is no means to get UW-only troops onto land, although there are many ways to get at least some land troops onto water, and despite UW nations all having, without fail, a ton of Water magic, there isn't very much strong direct damage battlemagic beneath the waves (even Water magic!), so they're not even really the best at what they do under the sea, they just have about a two-three year period of very settled expansion before anyone comes down to fight the inevitably forted-up provinces chock full of mages, temples (because otherwise they get their poo poo pushed in from every coastline) and PD. That's why they're weak.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:29
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The best thing about playing UW nations is using encase in ice on dumb landwalkers that try to move on your turf. Then those land dwellers turn out to be niefels and tarts and you become very sad. The reason why starspawn are so expensive is because well, they're starspawns. The base chassis plus the sacred status is ridiculous. amuayse fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 18:49
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Turin Turambar posted:Looking at UW nations today... I think what Ilwinter was trying to represent was that all underwater provinces are really drat big, and so it takes a while for even fast swimmer to get anywhere. Still kinda dumb.
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Sep 17, 2014 18:52
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 Okay
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Sep 17, 2014 22:17
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Eschatos posted:I think what Ilwinter was trying to represent was that all underwater provinces are really drat big, and so it takes a while for even fast swimmer to get anywhere. Still kinda dumb. The problem here is, you can make your own maps. You can define the RNG for those maps to make water provinces really, really small. Both together with this makes for really dumb bullshit.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:02
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Eschatos posted:I think what Ilwinter was trying to represent was that all underwater provinces are really drat big, and so it takes a while for even fast swimmer to get anywhere. Still kinda dumb. I also read that most water provinces are connected to multiple land provinces so they are MM1 for balance reasons. Given UW's general weakness, he could revert the change and give them a edge with the extra MM and still would be fair. :shambler vs shambler fight: Christ the RNG of this game!
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Sep 17, 2014 23:42
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Looks good for you, less shamblers eating all your money.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:50
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I end up spending several thousand gold on shamblers every single game I can. They might be the worst unit in the entire game but they're 1 resource apiece so I recruit like 6000 every turn and try to conquer the entire ocean or whatever
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Sep 17, 2014 23:58
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I personally like the icythids. Helps that you can recruit them on land where you actually have resources.
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Sep 18, 2014 01:20
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Nets can be very effective. I imagine that gold for gold icythids are probably a better value.
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Sep 18, 2014 06:54
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Ichtyids are legit good value for money; for 10 gold and 3 res you get 16 hp, 5 natural prot, 12 morale, 11 str, amphibiousness and spear + net, for a slightly larger res cost (8 instead of 3) you can instead get guys with 17 HP, armor and shields but no net. Ichtyids are a genuinely good investment; their low MR of 8 is their only real weak point but they are more than worth 10 gold each.
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Sep 18, 2014 07:02
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Someone posted a neat guide detailing sites that cause scale anomalies:
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Sep 18, 2014 08:13
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amuayse posted:Someone posted a neat guide detailing sites that cause scale anomalies: Mmm how is supposed to be read? Something like "If you have at least Nature 1 in your magic paths there is a chance an event creating a magical site called "The Gate of Deeper Slumber" that gives you 2 nature gems and increase sloth in said province?
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Sep 18, 2014 08:49
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Turin Turambar posted:Mmm how is supposed to be read?
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Sep 18, 2014 09:23
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Turin Turambar posted:Mmm how is supposed to be read? If a province has sloth scales / missing productivity scales that can't be explained by events or enemy dominion, that province must have the Valley of Shame or Gate of Deeper Slumber, and so you should probably search that province with an N1 mage
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Sep 18, 2014 10:08
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Turin Turambar posted:And why the Starspawn is so expensive at 200 gold? He is just S1H2+1 random path. If you want S2 the Star Child is cheaper, if you want a priest the proper priest is cheaper, if you want a researcher the slave mage researches more thanks to W2S2+1 random and cost less! Starspawn priests have a fairly high starting summoning skill so they're better at pulling things out of the Void Gate, which is pretty much their one use. Starspawn have a high racial base cost since they're towering beings with huge hp and special attacks built in, which compounds the cost formula's general bias against magepriests: compare LA Ulm's Black Priests at 160 gold for e1?1h2.
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Sep 18, 2014 12:03
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Black Priests get to fire anti-magic shotguns though.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:31
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