|
Hbomberguy posted:Please link this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSuTnCFqMkw The particular part you want is at 2:25, but you really have to watch it from the beginning to get the full vision on what Monty is. I hadn't really noticed until now, but he does sound REALLY autistic when explaining how he works, and also really unhealthy. As a reminder, the Haloid thing that he mentions at the beginning? It ends with Master Chief actually being a woman and female Master Chief and Samus making out and possibly loving. That's who they trusted to make a show with all females
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
I remember the story from one of the Podcasts where Burnie went a bit more into detail, but hell if I can remember which one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Metal Ray Sunshine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSuTnCFqMkw You guys are really making that sound so much worse than it is, that I really can't take any of it seriously. Especially considering I have seen other podcasts where Monty's there and interacting with Gavin and he's perfectly normal. People having precise workflows that they flip out over is very common in pretty much any specialized field.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 02:10
|
|
|
I don't think ripping keys off your keyboard because they "slow you down" is common I don't think that comic is making flipping out about workflows look like a sane thing to do
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 02:38
|
|
|
It's 'common' to do this very troubling thing, so let's not complain about it! On that note, gently caress XKCD for making fun of people's workflow problems. It's monstrous.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 03:05
|
|
|
Metal Ray Sunshine posted:As a reminder, the Haloid thing that he mentions at the beginning? It ends with Master Chief actually being a woman and female Master Chief and Samus making out and possibly loving. That's who they trusted to make a show with all females Not that it's really much better, but he didn't make Master Chief a woman. The twist IIRC was that it ended up actually being the Spartan character from Dead or Alive 4.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 03:18
|
|
|
An inability to deal with workflow changes is a huge problem. They're stuck using poser instead of an animation engine intended for final rendering, then they're stuck using an outdated version of it to boot. It probably took longer to produce what they did than it would have to make something higher quality in a different engine. Changing production pipelines for a long-term benefit in quality and productivity is common practice for any sort of media or software production and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be working in a professional studio.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
Kabanaw posted:An inability to deal with workflow changes is a huge problem. They're stuck using poser instead of an animation engine intended for final rendering, then they're stuck using an outdated version of it to boot. It probably took longer to produce what they did than it would have to make something higher quality in a different engine. Changing production pipelines for a long-term benefit in quality and productivity is common practice for any sort of media or software production and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be working in a professional studio. B...but that's what makes Monty such a special snowflake! He doesn't conform to using programs made for rendering like the sheeple masses, which makes his work as wonderful and unique! Can't you people see that he is a creative genius? Monty's just misunderstood, like all great artists. [/sarcasm]
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 03:49
|
|
|
If it's okay to make fun of how some people can't deal with it when their workplace makes them update Microsoft Office or even the Windows version they're using, then it is definitely okay to make fun of a guy for not being able to deal with an update to the animation program he uses. There's really no difference between the two.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 04:00
|
|
|
Srice posted:If it's okay to make fun of how some people can't deal with it when their workplace makes them update Microsoft Office or even the Windows version they're using, then it is definitely okay to make fun of a guy for not being able to deal with an update to the animation program he uses. There's really no difference between the two. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 04:08
|
|
|
HiveCommander posted:The difference being that most of those people aren't using Powerpoint to make an animated series with considerable financial backing We have RPGs made in Excel. Give it time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 06:04
|
|
|
HiveCommander posted:The difference being that most of those people aren't using Powerpoint to make an animated series with considerable financial backing
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 07:11
|
|
|
It's not so much that Poser is bad, it's just that its use is limited to pre-visualization. What other CG productions would be using to make simple rough drafts before committing to final animation, RWBY is using for its final draft. Essentially what they're doing is showing us an animatic and pretending it's a finished product.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 11:42
|
|
|
HiveCommander posted:The difference being that most of those people aren't using Powerpoint to make an animated series with considerable financial backing I don't know who is paying for this, but I wouldn't put my money anywhere near a project whose entire production hinges on a single person being able to diffuse matrix inversions or whatever with two clicks instead of three.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 11:43
|
|
|
Good Listener posted:I still would like to see this list they used for finalizing the show. I mean, you can kinda tell where they get some of the stuff but I've been interested at least to see what all got looked at beforehand. It's probably just the same generic list of "good anims" that been passed round and updated since the 90s. E: "Good" in this case meaning "popular", stuff like the big 3, FMA, EVA, Cowboy Bebop, Sailor Moon etc. Namtab fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Sep 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 11:55
|
|
|
Not only that, but RWBY's final render ISN'T a render at all, at least for season one. It's a playblast (playing the video in the preview window of the program itself). In other words, basically a pre-rendering stage test. Maybe they're going for a very particularly unique look, but I guarantee you can get better results by not doing that and taking the time to learn/use any 3D program's rendering function, including Poser. (or maybe, get this, a version that's not from 2005?)
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 12:10
|
|
|
I watched this a while back, these strange passion projects are always interesting to me. This is something this guy's clearly spending a lot of time thinking on. The character and weapon designs seem like they have a lot of thought and time put into them, but the execution is so odd. The the music is decent, the VAs are all fairly solid, and while the SFX aren't stand-out, they're not terrible. The main issue seems to be the writing and direction. The writing has a very Kevin Smith feel to it. Not so much from the specific content, but because I feel like there are a lot of points where the writers said "Good enough, let's go." From what little I've seen of them, I don't get the impression they were ever staying late trying to hammer out script problems or even writing more than just a first draft. The weirdness from the animation limitations can work fine if the story and presentation are good enough to carry it. In a lot of cases, limitations can wind up making a story better because they force the storyteller to get creative. Basically, the writers are checking out too early and the art director is shackling their production with conventions that were built around a completely different means of telling a story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 13:13
|
|
|
I really don't like 'anime' humour in that turns up in a lot of shows and anime-inspired material. It feels like an infinite cycle of recursion, where they're making a reference to a genre convention that was itself a reference to previous ones, terminating somewhere in the 60s where a middle-aged japanese man wrote something he thought kids would laugh at. Kevin Smith's stuff often encounters a similar problem but with a reverence for something else. I mean clearly the writing isn't the focus of the show, but that doesn't mean you should half-rear end it with meme-level humor. You can do well-written action with interesting themes. Also I really don't like shows about 'sexy' anime fightladies. It creeps me, especiallly when the characters are super uninteresting beside one key gimmick each. I'd actually prefer a show where they literally said nothing. It would feel somehow less stilted and robotic than this. Kill La Kill is not for everyone but I feel it does a good job of criticising exactly this sort of genre/storytelling, pushing it to such an extreme that it simultaneously parodies the style and mutates it into something unique.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 13:52
|
|
|
Yeah that's what I mean. Granted it's been a while since I've seen this (also I don't watch a lot of anime, so I'm sure whatever was cribbed off of was lost on me) but the jokes didn't really stand out from the rest of the writing in terms of laziness, it was all lazy. The jokes were referential and generic because that kind of stuff isn't hard to make. Most good scripts get written and rewritten to hell and back. This stuff seriously sounds like a first draft by people who weren't even trying all that hard to begin with. Also yeah, while the designs are clearly one of the few things that have a lot of time put into them they're p skeevy. Like I said, I find these kind of weird passion projects interesting on an academic level. If you're making an entire story (especially in a visual medium) the amount of work involved is massive. The fact that this has entire teams of people working on it and still feels this low-effort is really surprising. While Monty obviously cares about what he's making, but I feel like he doesn't really understand what exactly that involves and the level of effort, self-critque, discipline, etc required of him (and the people working under him).
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 14:21
|
|
|
Srice posted:If it's okay to make fun of how some people can't deal with it when their workplace makes them update Microsoft Office or even the Windows version they're using, then it is definitely okay to make fun of a guy for not being able to deal with an update to the animation program he uses. There's really no difference between the two. I like how in that video how one of these things being unable to deal with was an additional click. I don't quite get why things need to be done so quickly like he seemed to be so focused on. If you're trying to make something you think is good, wouldn't you want to spend time on it? I completely understand deadlines and things like that but maybe if there didn't seem to be this air of him needing to do everything by himself as efficiently and quickly as possible, he wouldn't seem so crazy. This is just a thought, I don't really understand how the man's brain works. I've even fairly negative so I will give him credit for being able to make a good DMC off the walls type action sequence. However, I feel the ones you see in the trailers far surpass the ones I remember from the show. I honestly only really remember a big action sequence I thought was good was in that episode with the giant scorpion and crow. The next time one popped up I was not impressed at all even with robots and monkey man pole fighting. I'll end my post saying I still think it was amusing how they had a contest for picking the "battle uniform" for the random bunny girl who gets teased because furry racism. In a video leading up to season 2, one of their making of season 2 diaries or such, they had her voice actor even kind of confused about it since the character honestly did not have much presence at all. Granted, she probably got a bigger part AFTER this contest but thbbt.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
rainy day posted:Is there any in universe reason for this or is it just ~because~ http://youtu.be/4W5KhfJHF_4?t=42s
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2014 16:39
|
|
|
Good Listener posted:I like how in that video how one of these things being unable to deal with was an additional click. I don't quite get why things need to be done so quickly like he seemed to be so focused on. If you're trying to make something you think is good, wouldn't you want to spend time on it? I completely understand deadlines and things like that but maybe if there didn't seem to be this air of him needing to do everything by himself as efficiently and quickly as possible, he wouldn't seem so crazy. This is just a thought, I don't really understand how the man's brain works. From what I heard, Velvet got popular because surprise, a shy teased bunny girl ends up being popular with an audience of teenage girls and neckbeards. So then her role got expanded in Volume 2, warranting the contest in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 02:09
|
|
|
Good Listener posted:I like how in that video how one of these things being unable to deal with was an additional click. I don't quite get why things need to be done so quickly like he seemed to be so focused on. If you're trying to make something you think is good, wouldn't you want to spend time on it? I completely understand deadlines and things like that but maybe if there didn't seem to be this air of him needing to do everything by himself as efficiently and quickly as possible, he wouldn't seem so crazy. This is just a thought, I don't really understand how the man's brain works. The 40 second Tex vs The Reds & Blues fight took something on the order of eight hours to animate. I think its justified to gradually improve your workflow even if it means disemboweling a cheap 20$ keyboard. Now to the extent that I agree that using Poser is silly I'll also add I think it should have been possible to edit the shortcut in preferences; assuming its a sensible program like Blender.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
Good Listener posted:I like how in that video how one of these things being unable to deal with was an additional click. I don't quite get why things need to be done so quickly like he seemed to be so focused on. Dude literally pushes 55 on the microwave instead of 100 to save a button push.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
I had no idea that it wasn't even a final rendering that they were using, but that explains both the lack of any kind of lighting and the time they left anchors visible in the hand eating the cookies. So it's even worse than I thought. Jesus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 04:32
|
|
|
RWBY is actually the only thing I'm still watching from this season. I really enjoy it, it's goofy as all hell but really fun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 04:40
|
|
|
Solaris Knight posted:From what I heard, Velvet got popular because surprise, a shy teased bunny girl ends up being popular with an audience of teenage girls and neckbeards. So then her role got expanded in Volume 2, warranting the contest in the first place. You know, the sad thing is that the show actually used her to demonstrate how lovely being a Faunes was. And it was actually subtle and effective about it. I was genuinely impressed that the show did not sexualize a bunny girl and actually showed that being a bunny girl was lovely. But then Blake ruined it with her bullshit and then fans cropped up and began to be terrible people. VV She was being bullied, people were tugging on her ears and when asked if she ever encountered discrimination she was too scared to raise her hand. It was legitimately well done. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Sep 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 05:49
|
|
|
I don't exactly see what was subtle about it. Also they have both human ears and animal ears at the same time, which is… odd.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 06:12
|
|
|
Neeksy posted:I don't exactly see what was subtle about it. I assume this is only so they could reveal later "WHAAAAAAT? THAT'S NOT A BOW!" for Blake. Or it's too many clicks to take the human ears off in poser.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 07:42
|
|
|
SSNeoman posted:You know, the sad thing is that the show actually used her to demonstrate how lovely being a Faunes was. And it was actually subtle and effective about it. I was genuinely impressed that the show did not sexualize a bunny girl and actually showed that being a bunny girl was lovely. But then Blake ruined it with her bullshit and then fans cropped up and began to be terrible people. The second scene was pretty well done. First kinda rubbed me the wrong way a bit with how our brave main character heroes just stood by and reminded the audience that racism was bad as it was going on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:The 40 second Tex vs The Reds & Blues fight took something on the order of eight hours to animate. I think its justified to gradually improve your workflow even if it means disemboweling a cheap 20$ keyboard. Now to the extent that I agree that using Poser is silly I'll also add I think it should have been possible to edit the shortcut in preferences; assuming its a sensible program like Blender. Please explain to me how ripping off your capslock key and f1 key to save time 1. saves time and 2. is not a sign of mental illness Like seriously, he could just not push those keys. Why does he need to rip them off? That's just plain crazy, and a definite sign that something is not right with that man
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 15:59
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:Please explain to me how ripping off your capslock key and f1 key to save time 1. saves time and 2. is not a sign of mental illness Eh, I hit caps lock when aiming for shift or tab often enough that I could see someone getting frustrated by it, and it's not like popping keys off a keyboard is difficult or permanent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
It's funny though since he rips off keys to save time, instead of presumably saving a lot more time by actually taking the time to sit down and learn how to use a newer version of Poser. (In this hypothetical I assume that using that time to actually learn a real animation program is completely out of the question, of course)
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
Maybe the guy's a loon.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
Maybe the key slowed him down because it got covered in greasy sweat and/or cheeto dust, or got broken from the sheer pressure of being violently mashed at incredible speeds. It's very odd to desire speed and efficiency but have to use an old program and destroy your keyboards in the process, while using 'like nine' monitors, in order to rip off a fight from the Matrix but with lesbians
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 18:52
|
|
|
A little surprised to see this thread here but oh well. I remember when the first trailers were released and wondering how they planned to add a storyline to connect everyone. Some of the VA tend to sound tinny/whiny in S1 and got a bit better in S2. I want to say it could be better but it could also be a lot worse. TBh, I forgot about S2 until I saw a bunch of fanart and well, not bad? I'm going to put into the box with all the battle series and see if anything changes in the future. I read SE for awhile but I dropped the anime since iirc had 51 episodes. I don't have time for this unless it's FMA:B. Very stylish character designs and interesting battles though wrt to SE.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
Neeksy posted:I feel like more effort and thought was put into everything around the show, the world, the character designs and commissioned digital painted portraits, the merch, the fan character inserts, etc. than was actually put into making the show as compelling as it clearly wants to be. Exactly. It's an animated version of a teenager's webcomic. Which invariably focuses more on the peripherals of coolness and less on actually competent storytelling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2014 15:04
|
|
|
Ccs posted:Exactly. It's an animated version of a teenager's webcomic. Which invariably focuses more on the peripherals of coolness and less on actually competent storytelling. Which is super interesting in itself. It's all the superficially cool aspects of various Anime, abstracted away from what made them actually cool. In Trigun, Vash the Stampede is 'cool' only in the abstracted, electric guitar rock of the OP. It's designed as an act of misdirection - this incredible individual is actually tremendously more complex than the surface it puts up. That's what the show is about, when you get down to it. Of course, nowadays you can look up the OP on youtube and find not only a full version of the song, but a 15-minute extended version that badly loops over and over, with 21,000+ views. Some people seem to want the illusion cast by the OP, but one that goes on for ever and is never inspected in greater detail. I bring up Trigun because it has 'cool fights' and also 'cool weapons', things this show aspires to have. To compare: In Trigun, both of these things are extensions of the narrative and themes. All of Vash's weapon, including the spoilery ones, are extensions of himself in very literal and symbolic ways. The story is exploring him through what he is 'made of', and why he chooses not to be the man implied by his wanted poster (the other main character carries around a giant heavy cross full of guns and 'mercy' - hm...). In RWBY, Ruby has a gun scythe because...it's a cool idea Monty Oum thought of? Because scythes were in Soul Eater or Devil May Cry? I like cakes, especially ones with icing. If I conclude that I should just eat the raw icing sugar out of the box, I am doing something wrong. Or let's say I happened to really like a cake with a big Che Guevara picture iced onto it. It would be silly to start collecting Che memorabilia. Thus, also, to gunblades.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2014 15:41
|
|
|
It's almost exactly the kind of anime I'd make if I were 15 and had the technical ability to make an anime. No wonder the majority of the fanbase is 15 or at least "mental-age of 15" level.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2014 01:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Monty has some sort of background in dancing that influences his fightscenes so I assume it isn't so much about being 'cool' as something he just feels that the way it would have to move might look 'cool'; minor nuance there I feel, but you can disagree. Regarding Trigun I agree, RWBY doesn't have a lot of depth to it though it might be slowly gaining some; the recent episode I think was good on that front. ninjewtsu posted:Please explain to me how ripping off your capslock key and f1 key to save time 1. saves time and 2. is not a sign of mental illness I hit keys I don't want to hit all the time working in Unity and Blender, its not *as* frustrating for me but there are mild forms of aphasia(?) that can make it ten times frustrating. Not that having a form of aphasia isn't strictly speaking a 'mental illness' but I assume you define 'illness' broadly to mean schizophrenic instead of being a reasonable motor impairment. Also there's still that we seem to be taking one web infographic thing as gospel and assuming there aren't other reasons, they probably aren't good reasons either but they might exist.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2014 04:02
|
|