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nexus6 posted:TOXIKK - Gameplay Reveal Trailer: http://youtu.be/xuEZyeText0 Looks pretty impressive - very Unreal Tournament Classic - but their decision not to go free-to-play has probably undermined it already. They're going up against a new, official Unreal Tournament which IS going to be free. That's a hard bargain to beat.
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Sep 20, 2014 12:30
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I take umbrage to a self-styled classic FPS having vehicle combat, but it looks alright anyway. To me it looks mostly like Unreal Tournament with a bit of Halo spliced in.
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Sep 20, 2014 13:28
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RyokoTK posted:I take umbrage to a self-styled classic FPS having vehicle combat, but it looks alright anyway. To me it looks mostly like Unreal Tournament with a bit of Halo spliced in.
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Sep 20, 2014 13:35
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RyokoTK posted:I take umbrage to a self-styled classic FPS having vehicle combat  It looks really good, and like a whole lotta game for fifteen dollars.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:14
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If Unreal Tournament 3 was unable to succeed, I have a hard time believing another dev can come in and swoop in and save the day.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:24
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In related news, Reflex is now on kickstarter. It's an arena fps based on Quake 3 CPM, built from the ground up in its own engine. It's still very early in development but they have the movement system down and it looks like they're keen not to make the same mistake that quake live did by planning a decent ladder and matchmaking system. Here's a demo from an earlier build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvkz-Z8G8LE I think that they've been too ambitious with their kickstarter target but it's by far the most promising new 'arena shooter' in development: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex
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Sep 20, 2014 15:34
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Korendian Leader posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvkz-Z8G8LE it's a 20$ warsow ?
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Sep 20, 2014 17:17
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Those Toxikk guns seem really boring (moreso aesthetically), though. I know it's trying to capture the FPS staples of "Pistol, Shotgun, Assault Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Sniper Rifle" but, man, those things are hella boring in looks and animation.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:27
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Yeah, honestly the whole game is really boring looking. Maybe it's better when it's not a demo reel, but the guns look and sound flat, and the character/map art uncomfortably reminds me of the very busy UT3 designs.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:34
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Looks like fun. I'll probably play that until the new UT comes out  Cream-of-Plenty posted:Those Toxikk guns seem really boring (moreso aesthetically), though. I know it's trying to capture the FPS staples of "Pistol, Shotgun, Assault Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Sniper Rifle" but, man, those things are hella boring in looks and animation. Yeah this and the vehicles (not really a fan of vehicle based gameplay in arena fps tbh) were the only thing in that trailer that looks kinda bleh. The weapons all look like boring silver and square boxes.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:41
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unpacked robinhood posted:it's a 20$ warsow ?
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Sep 20, 2014 17:46
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nexus6 posted:TOXIKK - Gameplay Reveal Trailer: http://youtu.be/xuEZyeText0 That "NO COWADOODY FEATURES" thing they keep advertising over and over again is getting really obnoxious. That said, I actually like how the weapons look. Then again, I actually did like the weapons in the Rise of the Triad Remake, which was about the only thing I liked about it.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:58
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Korendian Leader posted:It's closer to CPMA but with modern features and infrastructure for competitive play. There's no special dash or wall jumping like in warsow. It does look like it would feel good to play... I am super skeptical about any arena FPS (especially not F2P) getting a playerbase though. I know it's kind of an impossible question to answer sufficiently, but I sure wish that they would address "how are you going to attract an audience". (It's nice to have an echo chamber of Quake diehards rooting for you but that's not going to float the game after release.)
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Sep 20, 2014 21:03
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So for a while everyone was trying to make oldschool isometric RPGs (Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Torment) so is the new trend going to be oldschool arena shooters?
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Sep 20, 2014 22:16
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Prenton posted:I ran out of patience with it as well. I finally finished it, died after killing the boss, and the ending played anyway. Which I thought was strangely apt given how fed up I was at it. That always happens in Doom II. If the boss brain blows, you win even if you're dead. I first learned this by watching a speed run where the player jumped into the explosion. I burst out laughing.
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Sep 20, 2014 22:59
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Johnny Law posted:It does look like it would feel good to play... I am super skeptical about any arena FPS (especially not F2P) getting a playerbase though. I know it's kind of an impossible question to answer sufficiently, but I sure wish that they would address "how are you going to attract an audience". (It's nice to have an echo chamber of Quake diehards rooting for you but that's not going to float the game after release.) It's one the devs have answered multiple times on various places but mystifyingly fail to address on the KS page. The main attraction to Reflex is going to be that it's essentially promode with proper tutorials that allow anyone to figure out the basics of movement and gameplay, and quality matchmaking. Hopefully they make it so a player's first 100 matches aren't just getting obliterated by high-level players without even really understanding what's going on. Making it accessible without dumbing it down in any way is what they've stated is one of their biggest priorities, and if that's not something that people appreciate then I guess the arena fps genre really is dead.
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Sep 20, 2014 23:21
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Yo, Plutonia is some of the worst garbage dooming you could possibly do. For example: warp to MAP29 to witness truly terrible map design. The road that leads nowhere in the south takes the cake.
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Sep 20, 2014 23:39
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Plutonia Map29 is some win.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:08
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I think one of the problems with making a new arena FPS game is that people generally consider Q3, UT99, and UT2k4 the apex of the genre. Most of the new arena FPS games I've seen don't seem to add anything that would actually fit with the genre. It all seems to be the same grappling hooks we've seen since Threewave CTF back in 97 and stuff like wall-running. All of the new arena games look like rear end. They all seem to use the same minimalist style for their levels that makes everything look the same. UT99 and Q3, on the other hand, have a lot of varied environments that really make the game stand out. In Q3, you can play in Hell, Hell with flesh bursting through the walls, futuristic lab areas, and lovely-looking space levels. UT99 pretty much has everything in the book; crypts, castle, space stations, ghettos, high-rises, temples in space, sub pens, and so on. PRO L33T MLG GAMERZ might like maps that are basically giant grey metal structures, but for most people, it looks boring as poo poo. Toxikk seems like it's trying to do something different, which I applaud. Finally, new arena FPS games' combat just lacks the visceral feeling that games like UT99 have. In UT99, I know I've hosed up someone horribly when I lob three rockets at them at once and watch their gibs fly and bounce everywhere after making a really over the top scream or see an enemy's corpse do move around like it's dancing when I keep unloading my Minigun or Pulse Gun into them after they die. In Q1, the gib sounds and very fast gib chunks that fly everywhere make the Rocket Launcher feel extremely powerful. The new FPS arena games have middling combat that feels boring and lacks any of the oomph that old FPS arena games have. Bouncing around like a moron doesn't keep my attention for very long if the combat feels lifeless. Plus, I hate the obnoxious assholes that play arena FPS games these days. I love the games, but christ the communities can go gently caress themselves.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:16
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Reflex looks like it does right now because they couldn't afford textures before the kickstarter. It's aiming to have a bunch of different texture sets for map makers that you can see concept art for in the KS video. Also the robots gloriously explode into bloody chunks on every kill in the current build and the weapons have pretty good sound effects to them.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:22
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A lot of those bad design decisions are driven by the communities. I remember on the Quake Live forums there was a big thread for "recommended" game settings to put into a config file and one of the settings basically disabled texturing by LODing all the textures into blank expanses of flat colors. Another disabled most of the lighting. These people are insufferable shitheels normal people don't want to engage with, and will quickly displace normal people in places that they colonize. In other news, a map layout from my upcoming ECWolf mod Operation Serpent. This is all one map, split into four quadrants joined by elevators.  And inside a cavern full of lava. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 00:22
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Woolie Wool posted:A lot of those bad design decisions are driven by the communities. I remember on the Quake Live forums there was a big thread for "recommended" game settings to put into a config file and one of the settings basically disabled texturing by LODing all the textures into blank expanses of flat colors. Another disabled most of the lighting. These people are insufferable shitheels normal people don't want to engage with, and will quickly displace normal people in places that they colonize. Look, you're not really playing a competitive shooter unless you're playing at 640x480 on a CRT from 1998 at 900FPS.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:32
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Woolie Wool posted:A lot of those bad design decisions are driven by the communities. I remember on the Quake Live forums there was a big thread for "recommended" game settings to put into a config file and one of the settings basically disabled texturing by LODing all the textures into blank expanses of flat colors. Another disabled most of the lighting. That's my understanding as well. They're too busy trying to appeal to Q3-playing grognards instead of actually trying to branch out and add their own twists to things. Instead of trying to mimic Q1/CMPA's movement system AGAIN, why not try something completely different, like an improved and more user-friendly version of UT2k4's system, or hell, pull a UT99 and simplify it by not having a complex movement system, but have a tweaked version of the Translocator or another tool that can be used to teleport to various areas? I think it'd be cool as hell having something like a mix of UT99's movement and Threewave CTF's grappling look instead of another CPMA copy. I'm sure you'd have dubmass Reddit and Youtube commentators trowing temper tantrums about how it's not "oLdSkEwL" because it doesn't control exactly like CMPA/Q1, but I'd be a bit more interested in trying it than playing Yet Another FPS With CMPA-Inspired Movement That'll Die Within A Month Of Release. Also, those Wolf3D maps are drat impressive. I really need to get into playing Wolf3D TCs and custom maps one day. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 00:34
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There's an unbelievable number of Wolfenstein 3D maps out there. Any Wolfenstein mod that does not use a custom exe can now be loaded in ECWolf by dumping its data files into a pk3, IIRC. With TCs that do use a custom exe, you'll have to convert it yourself, if possible. I recommend B.J. Rowan's Project Totengraeber as an introduction to Wolfenstein mods, which I ported to ECWolf in January. It was made in 1999-2000 and even today has some of the best Wolfenstein maps I've ever played (48 maps continuously, no episodes). As for Operation Serpent, I'm taking a very different approach to any map sets I've made before in that each map is a self-contained idea built around a central concept, and absolutely gigantic in scale. That map has 458 enemies (the original engine's maximum was 149) and takes about an hour to complete. Operation Serpent First Encounter has eight maps (seven are now complete, the eighth will just be a stub map with the boss) and will hopefully be released Q4 2014 (if the music is finished on time). Those eight maps provide about as much gameplay as 30 normal Wolfenstein maps.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:42
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Woolie Wool posted:Operation Serpent Please tell me this is one of those projects that has a chance of actually coming out and not something like a bazillion ZDoom/Wolf TCs that look promising but fade away? Because it looks great. Christ that is a run on sentence.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:57
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Considering that the mapping is 95% complete, it does indeed have a chance of actually coming out. The thing's almost done.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:59
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Bloodmobile posted:Reflex looks like it does right now because they couldn't afford textures before the kickstarter. It's aiming to have a bunch of different texture sets for map makers that you can see concept art for in the KS video. Also the robots gloriously explode into bloody chunks on every kill in the current build and the weapons have pretty good sound effects to them. What makes weapon design in a game like quake so good isn't simply the sound design, or how cool it looks when somebody explodes into gibs. It's how every weapon has a specific niche, they synergies this generates between them and how they respond without delay to player input. Also, the vitriol directed at people who play competitive fps games seriously and use configs to maintain a stable fps, maximise the readability of maps, visibility of player models and reduce overall visual noise is pretty odd. There's no obligation to follow their lead and I find having a robust set of cvars available vastly preferable to games like battlefield where very noisy visual effects like glare from the sun can't be disabled. closeted republican posted:[Big Ol' Rant]
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Sep 21, 2014 01:00
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Those Toxikk guns seem really boring (moreso aesthetically), though. I know it's trying to capture the FPS staples of "Pistol, Shotgun, Assault Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Sniper Rifle" but, man, those things are hella boring in looks and animation. Gotta say I would be really loving happy if those stopped being "the FPS staples" and were replaced with weapons that are actually interesting.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:04
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Woolie Wool posted:A lot of those bad design decisions are driven by the communities. I remember on the Quake Live forums there was a big thread for "recommended" game settings to put into a config file and one of the settings basically disabled texturing by LODing all the textures into blank expanses of flat colors. Another disabled most of the lighting. These people are insufferable shitheels normal people don't want to engage with, and will quickly displace normal people in places that they colonize. I feel like there's a sentence or two missing before that last one. I find it very strange to go from "these people are so dedicated to this game that they will squeeze every last drop of performance and visual clarity that they can" to "insufferable shitheels" without some intermediate logic.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:07
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Korendian Leader posted:Yeah, it's because they spent their time building a decent game engine from the ground up and haven't had the time or resources to work on the art or sound assets yet. Almost every asset in reflex right now is a placeholder. I like CPMA, but not when every new arena FPS tries to copy it's movement in one way or another. There's a lot of ways to take arena FPS instead of copying the basics of Q3/CPMA, adding a new feature or two, and patting yourself on the back. Cvars are fine, but when everyone and their goddamn mom makes the game look like what people in the 90s would think a 3D game looks like, it gets silly. I find that part of the fun of these games are things combat feeedback and how the levels look. If everyone is willing to strip away the cool environments and any sort of combat feedback so they can play "hop around like a flea while collecting items so that bright green men cannot collect them, then make the green men fall down by clicking on an area near them in a completely tan arena before they make you fall down", then I'm not interested. I've seen others voice the same thing on here and other sites, telling me this is one of those elephants in the middle of the room that arena FPS designers should be trying to deal with instead of pandering to Q3 addicts.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:14
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Tiger Schwert posted:I feel like there's a sentence or two missing before that last one. I find it very strange to go from "these people are so dedicated to this game that they will squeeze every last drop of performance and visual clarity that they can" to "insufferable shitheels" without some intermediate logic. Dude, it's Quake III Arena, it's run at a steady 60+ FPS on any decent computer for around 12 years. What they're doing is wringing the actual visual design out of the game so they don't have to look at anything other than featureless enclosures for identical glowing generic players, instead of the varied and interesting environments, moody lighting, and weird and wonderful cast of characters Quake III Arena was meant to have. If you tweak it the "correct" way, there are no textures, no lighting, no characters (all players use a single model glowing in neon colors), and a ridiculously wide fisheye FOV. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 01:16
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Woolie Wool posted:Dude, it's Quake III Arena, it's run at a steady 60+ FPS on any decent computer for around 12 years. What they're doing is wringing the actual visual design out of the game so they don't have to look at anything other than featureless enclosures for identical glowing generic players, instead of the varied and interesting environments, moody lighting, and weird and wonderful cast of characters Quake III Arena was meant to have. I mean, clearly they aren't playing the game for the art design, man. (and that's not to say that the art design isn't good, but...)
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Sep 21, 2014 01:18
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I'm saying if you let people who take the aesthetics out of the game because they "get in the way" and allow them to influence your design decisions and be your primary target audience, the game will suck for anyone who isn't them.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:19
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Woolie Wool posted:I'm saying if you let people who take the aesthetics out of the game because they "get in the way" and allow them to influence your design decisions and be your primary target audience, the game will suck for anyone who isn't them. People tend to forget that, back in the day, the aesthetics were one of the big reasons why people initially played games like Q3 and UT99. Things like Q3's "organic" texture animations and general eyecandy were important, if not moreso, than the gameplay in preview articles. Hell, one of, if not the, first Q3 video released was about the graphics and the power of the Pentium 3, not the gameplay. The shift to focusing only on trickjumps, movement, and other staples in arena FPS games didn't happen until after long after CS took over and arena FPS games almost died out.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:34
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Personally I think an arena FPS could sell even if it had no trick jumps at all and any unconventional movement techniques are patched out as soon as they are found. Hell, it might even sell because of that, because it would be easier to pick up and play and the movement rules would make sense to people who aren't grognards.EvilGenius posted:What's the origin of bouncy grenades in FPSs? The first I can think of is Quake 1, and the bounceyness was just perfect for bouncing death around corners and killing bad guys before they even knew you were there. Bouncy grenades do "work" in ZDoom but they're extremely hard to bank correctly and it's incredibly easy to kill yourself. It's certainly not as natural as in Quake. Come to think of it, they're in vanilla Hexen as well. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 01:36
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Woolie Wool posted:Personally I think an arena FPS could sell even if it had no trick jumps at all and any unconventional movement techniques are patched out as soon as they are found. Hell, it might even sell because of that, because it would be easier to pick up and play and the movement rules would make sense to people who aren't grognards. You could still add some sort of tricks, but you need to make sure that they're very easy to use, such as a weapon the user can quickly swap to. In the UT games, Translocator shenanigans are used to bounce around instead of trick jumps. "Constantly shoot disk in front of you and teleport" is a shitload easier to learn than all of tricks you need to survive in Q3. Something like a quick grappling hook key (ala the quick melee key in modern FPS games) could be an effective way to teach people that they can go fast easily. With item timing, you could just have a voice say something like "QUAD DAMAGE NOW AVAILABLE" whenever it respawns with a meter that shows how long it'll take until an item respawns so that people know exactly when it's respawned instead of trying to learn the timing themselves. I know the latest version of QL has a HUD indicator whenever an items spawns, which is a good step in the right direction.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:44
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Woolie Wool posted:I'm saying if you let people who take the aesthetics out of the game because they "get in the way" and allow them to influence your design decisions and be your primary target audience, the game will suck for anyone who isn't them. We totally need an old school FPS that is just untextured boxes fighting on grey rectangles.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:46
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Woolie Wool posted:Personally I think an arena FPS could sell even if it had no trick jumps at all and any unconventional movement techniques are patched out as soon as they are found. Hell, it might even sell because of that, because it would be easier to pick up and play and the movement rules would make sense to people who aren't grognards. Yeah, that's basically how UT99 and UT3 work. There's not many movement techniques that actually work well in DM, and you can disable the translocator to make it even more grounded. UT2k4 went in the total other direction however, but the trick jumps and air dodging is pretty simple to understand still, since it's just "get near wall, double tap D."
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Sep 21, 2014 01:51
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poptart_fairy posted:We totally need an old school FPS that is just untextured boxes fighting on grey rectangles. So... Minimum?
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Sep 21, 2014 01:53
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I want to point out here that you can argue as much as you like from a personal standpoint over how high skill ceilings or skill floors should be, but arguing from a financial/business standpoint is shite. The most popular and most lucrative multiplayer games currently in circulation (MOBAs) are some of the most infamously player-unfriendly and hostile games around, requiring an encyclopaedic knowledge to succeed at even the most basic levels. I'll grant that these games have their treadmills, their drops, their psychological tricks to keep people playing, but they also have tutorials and they have matchmaking on a party/team level - two crucial things that really encourage people to learn and to master the game. These were things that the QL devs boastfully rejected in the IRC logs in favour of item timers, simplified jumping and loadouts.
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