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So, DE Wrack chat: These guys are S3, T4, Save 6+, have 4+ Poisoned weapons, have FNP and Night Vision (but no shooting weapons). They're not as quick as Wyches (I4 to I6) and they don't have Dodge 4+ like Wyches either. They DON'T have Fleet or Grenades like Wyches do, but can take Venom or Raider as dedicated transport, even though they're Elites, not Troops. They have the same WS and BS that Wyches do, and cost the same, although you can take them in smaller units, as low as 3. Without going through all the weapon options, am I wrong to compare them to Wyches so much? Of course who knows what the new codex will change but it seems to me the Wyches are just a marginally better unit, at least in the current codex.
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Sep 20, 2014 11:00
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Well, for starters, the Wych Dodge only functions in close combat, so they melt much harder than Wracks to any shooting. Whereas Wracks are harder to wound and get FNP against everything short of a krak rocket.
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Sep 20, 2014 11:04
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So does that make them as tough as Plaguebearers, then? T4 and (usually) 5+ against everything? What role would they play in a DE list? Without Wych tricks they'll still fall over in CC...
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Sep 20, 2014 14:44
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3 Wracks can hide quite easily and quite cheaply on a backboard objective, and Wracks will kill more MEQs or more T3 stuff than Wyches in a round.They lose out on no Haywire, but gain Liquifier Guns as a bonus.
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Sep 20, 2014 14:50
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Poison only rerolls when Str is higher than toughness now, so they are not better Vs T3 because of that. Plaguebearers suck. They are slow and what makes them work is shrouding and glances VS AV in cc with 6s to hopefully tarpit a knight. You don't see many Plaguebearers unless they are summoned tactically or it's a softer fluffy list. More often you see daemonettes instead. No shrouding but higher Initiative and fleet. Speed for CC units is very important, reroll run is great when you have to and resolve charge is clutch. Witches seem to have similar things as daemonettes, as well as haywir'in Knights. Put in object secured and you got a winner in my book. We'll have to see how things go once the book drops. Wracks might be good to get a cheap venom or something.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:06
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will blow your mind.
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Speaking of Plaguebearers, would it be possible to make an okay Zone Mortalis force (no vehicles except the occasional Dreadnought, serious disincentives for bikes, very low points, tons of LOS-blocking terrain) out of the following? This would leave 79 points for upgrades: Nurgle Daemon Prince - 160 3 Nurgling Swarms -45 3 Plague Drones -126 10 Plaguebearers -90 =421 I'd probably give the Plague Drones the Deaths Heads since jet packs plus shooting is really cute in ZM. Other than that, I'm a little lost. I can drop a Troop choice if that helps, but my experience with ZM is boys > toys. I have zero daemons experience, just have an opportunity to get the models NIB for a steal, love Nurgle, and thought I'd ask.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:32
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Do Plague Drones have move through cover? IIRC Cavalry treats all terrain as dangerous in Zone Mortalis, so they might kill themselves before you ever see an enemy model. I'd also say Nurgle might be a little too slow to get through your average ZM board, but I've never played it myself.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:36
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Do Plague Drones have move through cover? IIRC Cavalry treats all terrain as dangerous in Zone Mortalis, so they might kill themselves before you ever see an enemy model. Nuts, you're right about Cavalry. That sucks; they're such good-looking models and I thought I'd sussed out a use for them. Edit: assuming I can get a house-ruled exception, how does the list look? Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 15:46
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thespaceinvader posted:Even weirder, I think the antler thingy is coming out of his gun. So... if he actually points the gun anywhere other than at the sky, he rips the head-tube out of hit pec? I don't know what the gently caress. That's the point, bro! Lear2DarkEldar.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O03WLn8SzaE&t=33s
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Sep 20, 2014 15:48
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krushgroove posted:So, DE Wrack chat: You're right to compare them. They cost the same and seem to fit the same role. Wyches are marginally better as an offensive unit, but wracks have more utility. They're the cheapest objective campers available, they're a cheap tax for venoms, and they're a cheap way to buy an IC a pain token. You can spend some points on them to have fun. For 60, you can bring 5 with a liquifier gun if you miss template weapons. For 25 more points, you can upgrade one to an acothyst with a hexrifle and piss off your opponent the one time the dice align and its special property works. Note that these options basically double your investment.
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Sep 20, 2014 16:28
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So I've got a game coming up against somebody playing Nurgle-themed CSM, what's a common list for that kind of army? I imagine lots of T5, FNP and lots of poison shenanigans, am I far off the mark? We're playing a 1250 point game.
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Sep 20, 2014 16:35
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Master Twig posted:Ah. Good to know. I kept finding the old rules, which made Malanthropes significantly less good. I'm glad these are the current rules. My Malanthropes (and Harridan) arrived just this morning. I'm so excited to get them put together and on the table.
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Sep 20, 2014 16:36
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I was really hoping they would have let all of the Wracks take Hexrifles, but there really wasn't too much room on the sprues for anything fun like that.xtothez posted:My Malanthropes (and Harridan) arrived just this morning. I'm so excited to get them put together and on the table. A Harridan takes up like half the table, good luck.
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Sep 20, 2014 16:42
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Do Plague Drones have move through cover? IIRC Cavalry treats all terrain as dangerous in Zone Mortalis, so they might kill themselves before you ever see an enemy model. I actually think I read it wrong; Cavalry treat all ZM difficult terrain as dangerous as well, but there's nothing making ALL terrain difficult/dangerous as far as I can tell.
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Sep 20, 2014 16:52
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Icon Of Sin posted:So I've got a game coming up against somebody playing Nurgle-themed CSM, what's a common list for that kind of army? I imagine lots of T5, FNP and lots of poison shenanigans, am I far off the mark? We're playing a 1250 point game. Lots of T5 and FNP due to Plague Marines, but you'll only really see any poison in close combat with them. I'd imagine lots of Plague Marines in Rhinos and maybe Nurgle-marked Obliterators, who are tough sonsabitches.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:00
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Karl Rove posted:This is probably a really stupid question, but Gate of Infinity says "using the rules for Deep Strike" for where you can move. Does this count as a deep strike for the purposes of things that prevent deep striking within a given area? Nothing jumps to mind as actually outright-prohibiting Deep Strike into a particular area, although there are a few things that mess with scatter (for better or for worse) and Gate is affected by those. Do note, however, that while Gate uses the Deep Strike rules, it is not the same as arriving from reserves and will not trigger Interceptor, Coteaz, etc. And yes, Servo-Skulls are amongst the many, many things GK no longer have access to. krushgroove posted:So, DE Wrack chat: They're certainly not incomparable, especially if Wracks still have availability as Troops in the new book/supplements; however, Wracks and Wyches tend to serve different basic roles, so I wouldn't try lining them up too closely. The main sticking point is resiliency vs. offense; Wracks are much tougher than Wyches (T4, FNP) and thus a lot better at enduring enemy shooting to cling to an objective. That's mainly what they are for; a Liquifier might occasionally score some kills, and you might sometimes assault with them, but really Wracks are just for staying alive and getting objectives for you. Wyches, on the other hand, are the typical DE glass hammer- they punch reasonably hard in CC (and especially so against certain types of units), but will crumble into dust if the enemy so much as glances at them. Which your army needs is going to depend on what your game plan is. With all units scoring now the need for Wracks is certainly somewhat lessened, but honestly Wyches aren't in a much better place due to issues with Overwatch and such. But the new codex might or might not completely change all of that, so probably prudent to wait.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:09
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SRM posted:Lots of T5 and FNP due to Plague Marines, but you'll only really see any poison in close combat with them. I'd imagine lots of Plague Marines in Rhinos and maybe Nurgle-marked Obliterators, who are tough sonsabitches. Nurgle obliterators would be T5/2+, right? That sounds pretty rough. I'm trying something new and going full mechanized. Librarian (ML 2), devastator squad (4x plasma cannons, razorback with lascannon), 3x tac squads (rhino and plasma gun per), a predator (autocannon, heavy bolters), and 2 dreads (assault cannons on both, because  ). Lots of AV11 and 12, limited on ability to crack AV14 (outside of lascannon and dreads punching things, but they never live long enough to do that  )but everything on the table can at least glance AV13. Running with Iron Hands chapter tactics (6+ FNP for everyone, all vehicles have It Will Not Die) so we'll see how badly this goes.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:16
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Icon Of Sin posted:Nurgle obliterators would be T5/2+, right? That sounds pretty rough. You'd also be likely to see some T6 bikes or chaos spawn. Usually with an attached chaos lord on bike.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:28
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Icon Of Sin posted:Nurgle obliterators would be T5/2+, right? That sounds pretty rough. And yeah, forgot Nurgle bikes and spawn. I've been wanting to convert some techno-monstrosities to run as spawn with my Iron Warriors. I use massive piles of bionics as a stand-in for Mark of Nurgle so they'd be a fun conversion project.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:50
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While you're looking at Dark Eldar on GW's site, don't forget the Unbound section!  http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40-000?N=102352+4294966297&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table
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Sep 20, 2014 21:58
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Post 9-11 User posted:While you're looking at Dark Eldar on GW's site, don't forget the Unbound section! Phil Kelly's unbound swarm lol
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Sep 20, 2014 21:59
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Moola posted:Phil Kelly's unbound swarm lol I was flicking through tabletop fix and found this kickstarter and instantly thought of you. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/433105762/olleys-armies-dwarven-prussian-army-scrunt-miniatu My favourite is 'scrunt mechanic with spanner'.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:03
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Do dark eldar warrior even exist anymore?
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Sep 21, 2014 00:11
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LingcodKilla posted:Do dark eldar warrior even exist anymore? Of course? If anything they're going to be taken even more now, if Wracks are going to always be Elites.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:50
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Marine players, how do you deal with Broadsides? They're infuriating.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:37
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Sulecrist posted:Marine players, how do you deal with Broadsides? They're infuriating. Lascannons and missile launchers will both double them out, I think. It's been a long while since I played against them, though.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:50
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How many HPs to Dark Eldar vehicles have? 3 on the Ravager and 2 for everything else?
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Sep 21, 2014 01:54
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Uroboros posted:How many HPs to Dark Eldar vehicles have? 3 on the Ravager and 2 for everything else? Raiders, Ravagers, Razorwings, and Voidravens all have 3. Venoms have 2.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:56
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Sulecrist posted:Marine players, how do you deal with Broadsides? They're infuriating. Lascannons are pretty bad times for them, since they are longer-ranged than the normal Broadside weapons (SMS/HYMP), ignore their armor, and ID them. Meltaguns/Plasmaguns are also obnoxious for them, since they cut through most of their defenses and can fall out of a Drop Pod. Even just being forced to roll a bunch of saves can sometimes end badly for them; 2+/W2 is tough, but everyone rolls 1s sometimes. The two big weaknesses of Broadsides are range and morale- if you can take advantage of those, they are in trouble. With Leadership 8 any casualties are rather likely to make them book it off the table (and powers like Terrify can make it even more likely- really, the whole Telepathy tree is excellent against Tau.) A 36"/30" range is pretty good, but most Imperial armies go to 48", meaning you can often leave them stranded if you deploy cannily. Broadsides being forced to move for 1-2 turns can really change the way a game plays out, so don't be afraid to go on the defensive if the Tau player sets up poorly.
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Sep 21, 2014 02:16
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God Daemon Princes are so loving rad when they churn out warp speed and iron arm with the black mace.
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Sep 21, 2014 07:10
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JackMack posted:I was flicking through tabletop fix and found this kickstarter and instantly thought of you. Those are some handsome scrunts!
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Sep 21, 2014 10:52
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GW CEO job vacancy is up. How many of us are applying?
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Sep 21, 2014 13:28
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JackMack posted:I was flicking through tabletop fix and found this kickstarter and instantly thought of you. Olley's style really has calmed down a lot. I used to absolutely detest the "Iron Claw" stuff he did for Citadel where everything was entirely made from creases. These new dwarfs are actually pretty neat, and mostly not so Steampunk that it sets my teeth on edge.
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Sep 21, 2014 14:06
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I dunno, there's still something about his style I absolutely cannot stand :-/
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Sep 21, 2014 14:29
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Haha, the advert pretty much says 'if you don't fit into our culture or way of doing things, we won't hire you'. Unbelievable that they don't want a new loving CEO to instigate some form of change? If they wanted to maintain the status quo, Kirby wouldn't have left!
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Sep 21, 2014 14:51
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Lord Twisted posted:Haha, the advert pretty much says 'if you don't fit into our culture or way of doing things, we won't hire you'. to me that read as "you can't just fire everyone and move production to China". GW is a pretty happy work environment for a lot of the staff and offers some pretty good opportunities to rise within the company. Even the humble hobby store worker is encouraged to submit work to Black Library. I don't think it's a bad thing at all for them to want a CEO who understands and values that.
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Sep 21, 2014 15:09
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Where do you apply? Also  at this http://investor.games-workshop.com/bribery-policy-statement/quote:Woe betide anyone who lets Games Workshop or themselves down!
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Sep 21, 2014 16:07
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Cataphract posted:to me that read as "you can't just fire everyone and move production to China"  How in the world did you get that from this?quote:We have a strong culture of personal development at Games Workshop and there are many resources and opportunities for both personal and professional development. If the way you behave at work and the attitudes you display fit with ours, it is highly likely you will be successful, well rewarded and happy. However, it is only fair to say that people who don’t fit with our culture, or who play at fitting, will be unhappy and consequently unsuccessful. That comes across as "Kirby's views and attitudes are well-entrenched and we aren't about to start changing them now" so much that it's not even funny. Also the shareholders couldn't give a tin poo poo if a CEO fired everyone and moved production to China, so long as that money kept rolling in. In fact, given GW's recent financial developments, the stock price would probably go through the roof if someone did that (not that I want that to happen, I hasten to add. The "moving production to China" part, that is; GW's management could use a clean sweep, I feel).
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Sep 21, 2014 17:29
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Sydney Bottocks posted:
Cause for years they've prided themselves on having a business that doesn't outsource the miniature production and that everyone who works for the company is, at some level, a hobbyist. Yes, of course the company would be more profitable if it outsourced production and maybe, as a share holder, you'd not care. But it's been stated that it's important to the culture of the company that they employ people who are local and involved in the hobby.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:02
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For pete's sake, just sell the whole mess to Activision, already.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:37
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