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No, no, no. Not an IMplosion. An EXplosion. Kirk crashes the ship into Soran and then the whole goddamn planet turns into a Gallagher watermelon.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:49
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One thing is awesome about that deleted footage though, Kirk took out Soran with not one, but TWO double fist punches.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:55
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Kirk doesn't die. He wills Soran to death, then Q shows up and says "see, Jean Luc, I told you you humans were on the verge of something special" and then Q and Kirk ride off on flying space motorcycles.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:08
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Kirk's shirt, of course, torn to shreds and him firing two phaser rifles into the air.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:13
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Sash! posted:You say that now... What? What are you talking about? F*ck.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:20
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Mean Bean Machine posted:What? What are you talking about? F*ck. That's how they wrote out the original female lead on Sliders. She was kidnapped by the hyper-evolved cro-magnon bad guys and sent to a rape camp.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:23
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Timby posted:Not just the script. It was filmed. Is it weird that I want to see the entire movie in this first draft form, complete with lack of music and cheesy sound effects?
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Sep 20, 2014 01:27
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CaptainQuirk posted:Best example of this is IMO the episode where they visited this historical memorial about two factions making peace treaty, end up traveling back in time and completely gently caress everything up changing history so that people got slaughtered. To be fair to Crichton, he was the only one genre-savvy enough to insist that they not change anything. His plan to set everything right was foiled by sheer bad luck. It's like if in Back to the Future Lorraine grabbed a gun from the dash and shot both Biff and George in the parking lot. Farscape! 
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 02:23
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Man, these knock-off Rizians are creepy as poo poo. Yeah... put on that scarf, giiiirl. They're probably psychic vampires or some poo poo. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 03:22
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Gonz posted:You think the end result was bad? The original, unrevised script had him dying from Soran shooting him in the back. I don't know how people can give Generations a pass at all. It's plot is the most convoluted thing ever and it has so many holes. Been said before, but: 1- Send Kirk back to his own time, where Sauren also was - now just a refugee 2- Have him not beam Sauren out of the nexus 3- Everyone wins, literally, even the villain Anti-climax maybe but a hell of a lot more logical. Plus Picard could have just gone "Oh, well poo poo" when Kirk died, just said "You win Sauren," and went right back in the Nexus. He literally had infinite respawns. He could have Groundhog day'ed that scenario for however long he wanted, and even taken vacation breaks in the Nexus if it got to be boring. Or he could have said "I know exactly where I want to go.. the bridge of the enterprise to just nuke the whole area he's in." There were literally thousands of solutions with the story element they put in, and they went for the dumbest one: Getting another aging Starship Captain to fist fight Malcolm McDowell. ED: Plus with the "Anywhere, any time" offer why wasn't he at least tempted to go back and save his family from burning to death in a fire? That is the dumbest loving subplot in the history of anything. It never tied in. ED2: Also gently caress that movie for wasting McDowell, the problems sure weren't on him. Plus he found his killing an icon in such a stupid way absolutely hilarious IRL, so I totally can't be mad at him. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 03:33
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Oh, they aren't psychic vampires, they're just self-absorbed dicks Voyager Episode 9 - The crew gets some shore leave, are denied some neat tech, then just kinda wander off after Janeway guilts a few people. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 03:46
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You know, all that Kostomojin or whatever the spelling is stuff is so absolutely silly and out of place that I honestly want to see what an Evil Dead movie would end up like in the Star Trek universe. I'm surprised that book wasn't bound in flesh and inked in blood to boot.
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Sep 20, 2014 04:23
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Voyager Episode 10 - Oh god, not a holodeck episode. Please... no. 
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Sep 20, 2014 04:47
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Wow I didn't know that existed. Well anyway Kirk was a dipshit for not grabbing Soren's weapon. See that's why I prefer him getting shot in the back to the bridge falling on him, Kirk dying due to his ego and overconfidence is much more appropriate even if getting shot in the back is a bit of an anticlimax.
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Sep 20, 2014 04:47
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Vengeance of Pandas posted:See that's why I prefer him getting shot in the back to the bridge falling on him, Kirk dying due to his ego and overconfidence is much more appropriate even if getting shot in the back is a bit of an anticlimax. The fact that Kirk didn't die heroically in starship combat in the captains chair of the Enterprise, with the bridge in flames around him, has always seemed like a shame. You have one shot to kill off the second most iconic character in the franchise and you waste it on him falling when trying to find a remote control seems really stupid. They should have decided on a heroic death for Kirk and written the script from there.
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Sep 20, 2014 06:07
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If they absolutely had to kill Kirk and the Enterprise-D in Generations, they clearly needed to have Kirk punch Picard and throw him in an escape pod then ride the Enterprise-D into a Romulan Warbird to save Earth.
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Sep 20, 2014 06:35
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eriktown posted:Has recurring character death ever been handled well in Trek, really? Kor and Kang?
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Sep 20, 2014 08:26
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Folks, I haven't read much of this thread, and I'm doing a first time watch of DS9 (only having seen scattered TNG episodes before). I'm about 4 seasons in now, and this holodeck episode with Spy Bashir and Garak just started. I can already tell it's going to be a good one!
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Sep 20, 2014 09:02
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DarkLich posted:Folks, I haven't read much of this thread, and I'm doing a first time watch of DS9 (only having seen scattered TNG episodes before). 
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Sep 20, 2014 15:10
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MikeJF posted:If they absolutely had to kill Kirk and the Enterprise-D in Generations, they clearly needed to have Kirk punch Picard and throw him in an escape pod then ride the Enterprise-D into a Romulan Warbird to save Earth. Would have loved this.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:18
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Just got to (what I assume) is the heist arc, and like, man. Why do these people like Stark so much? They take a lot more poo poo from him than I'd expect, considering that introducing him into a volatile situation is slightly worse than introducing, y'know, the main cast. ed. MikeJF posted:If they absolutely had to kill Kirk and the Enterprise-D in Generations, they clearly needed to have Kirk punch Picard and throw him in an escape pod then ride the Enterprise-D into a Romulan Warbird to save Earth. Yeah. This or a long look at Picard before tackling Malcolm McDowell and tumbling off a mountain while fighting with him, no rocket boots or marshmallow dispensers to save him this time. Y'know, if we're being cheap. Which we were. betaraywil fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 18:23
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Gonz posted:Aw son of a bitch. It still impresses me that the test audience reaction was so overwhelmingly negative that Paramount paid a few million dollars to haul everyone back out to the desert and reshoot the ending.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:53
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:It still impresses me that the test audience reaction was so overwhelmingly negative that Paramount paid a few million dollars to haul everyone back out to the desert and reshoot the ending. It was an extraordinary thing -- II, III, IV and VI all had minor re-shoots and pickup shots done, but never an absolute re-shoot of fifteen minutes of the ending. I guess Paramount figured that because they had to pay Stewart's salary (which was pretty big after seven seasons of TNG) as well as Shatner's, they wanted to get the best reaction possible. Honestly, I like Kirk's death as it is, even though Picard should have just jumped back in time to Ten-Forward so he could shoot Soran in the head. Kirk was never John McClane. He gave his life to save some strange new world, because it made a difference. It's kind of strange that people want the new JJ-era Trek movies to see more new worlds and new civilizations, but they're mad that Kirk didn't go out in a firefight like the beginning of Star Trek '09.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:05
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Kirk should have been outsmarted by a computer and then committed suicide.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:11
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What could a computer say to break Kirk's brain causing him to explode? "You are a terrible captain." "Women are not attracted to you."
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Sep 20, 2014 20:14
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What if Generations had progressed the same, up to the point where Picard meets Soren in Ten Forward, where he just shoots him dead. Then the movie could be Kirk coming out of the Nexus somehow and teaming up with the TNG crew to free Picard. And at the end, handsome super-human P.C. Niloc flies in on USS DoubleExcelsior and saves everybody!
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Sep 20, 2014 20:29
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Cojawfee posted:What could a computer say to break Kirk's brain causing him to explode? To me the biggest wasted opportunity around Kirk's death is that he never set foot aboard the Enterprise-D. He should have at least got to see where the legacy went, like Scotty.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:42
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Knormal posted:"Everyone knows about the toupee and girdle." Kirk, lonely and broken, goes to the holodeck and activates a program of the original Enterprise bridge, and drinks green liquor next to a holographic recording of Scotty drinking green liquor from two years prior.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:56
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Hard Clumping posted:Kirk, lonely and broken, goes to the holodeck and activates a program of the original Enterprise bridge, and drinks green liquor next to a holographic recording of Scotty drinking green liquor from two years prior. Later, Picard runs into a genetic duplicate whose experiences differ sharply from his own. That brash duplicate hangs out with Tom Riker and Picard From Tapestry, because every TNG movie was done better as a TNG episode. Ed. Sorry that post could have had more subtlety, wit, and fun to it, if I'd thought longer and harder before making it. I guess it really is a TNG movie of a post.
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Sep 20, 2014 23:29
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Holy poo poo is "The Visitor" a good episode.
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Sep 21, 2014 08:11
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Has BBC America begun airing the remastered versions of the first few seasons of TNG? I just watched two episodes and there seemed like there were a ton of special effects that couldn't have possibly existed in 1987. I'm talking about crisp, HD floating holographic LCARS displays built into the conference room table, weather patterns seen on planets from orbit, and several exterior shots of the Enterprise that look like modern day CG.
Gonz fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 09:15
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Barlow posted:The fact that Kirk didn't die heroically in starship combat in the captains chair of the Enterprise, with the bridge in flames around him, has always seemed like a shame. You have one shot to kill off the second most iconic character in the franchise and you waste it on him falling when trying to find a remote control seems really stupid. They should have decided on a heroic death for Kirk and written the script from there. According to the writer's commentary, virtually everything wrong with Generations (time travel fuckery aside) was caused by them getting the idea to not do what was expected. It started with the decision to do the sailing ship scene instead of the Romulans attacking the observatory and ended with the decision not to have the captains fight Enterprise to Enterprise or at least team up, but to cook eggs and go horseback riding. Protip: When watching Generations, switch the commentary track on instead of watching the Nexus scene and listen to Braga & RDM (or talk about how sickening Picard's family is and how they should have put in a roman orgy instead. Edited because I forgot who wrote Generations. Cat Hatter fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 10:39
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Anything but Picard's fake fantasy family would have improved the Nexus scenes.
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Sep 21, 2014 14:43
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Gonz posted:Has BBC America begun airing the remastered versions of the first few seasons of TNG? I just watched two episodes and there seemed like there were a ton of special effects that couldn't have possibly existed in 1987. I'm talking about crisp, HD floating holographic LCARS displays built into the conference room table, weather patterns seen on planets from orbit, and several exterior shots of the Enterprise that look like modern day CG. Yes they have Picard's fantasy should have been the big fight scene from Rambo IV, except its all Borg and Ferengi and Picard is on the back of that Jeep with the .50.
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Sep 21, 2014 15:52
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The mistake wasn't how they killed Kirk in Generations. The mistake was in chickening out and not killing Kirk at the end of Undiscovered Country like they'd originally planned. Kirk was going to die when he dove to save the president, and that would have been the perfect way for him to go out. That and making Valeris be Saavik they way they'd wanted would have made a good film much better. 
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Sep 21, 2014 16:58
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Cat Hatter posted:According to the writer's commentary, virtually everything wrong with Generations (time travel fuckery aside) was caused by them getting the idea to not do what was expected. Too bad I was expecting an exciting movie
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Sep 21, 2014 17:26
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The issue with Generations goes back way before you talk about how Captain Kirk should die or the plot holes with the Nexus. The issue begins with the fact that Kirk's storyline was finished and wrapped up perfectly at the end of Star Trek 6. There was no need for him to "bridge" the series after Patrick Stewart had literally just spent 7 years of television showing us why Picard was every way the equal to Kirk, not second fiddle and certainly not someone who burns his hand cooking eggs. Secondly, the Nexus is just not an interesting plot device in the slightest and the entire concept makes no sense and is completely magic. Yes Trek technology is basically "magic" in many ways but the Nexus has zero explanation and zero reason to exist. Why does this ribbon of energy exist? Why does it transport you into your fantasy/time/were not really sure? You could literally have a wizard flying through space doing the same poo poo with no change at all to the plot. Also the movie obviously is trying to probe the concept of family and the things we miss out on, but this is never explored outside of Picards family dying horribly then completely ignored and Picard's fantasy of what can only be described as a Victorian era British family that also makes no sense with Picard's history. He dislikes children and has never really expressed a true regret in choosing Starfleet over a family. He may have been warm to the idea of a son in that season 7 episode (which they should have just made his actual son instead of stupid DNA poo poo) but that was never a goal. His desire or fantasy just makes zero sense considering the true regrets he has had over the Borg and wolf359. Picard's family dies to artificiality create this longing for something Picard never really wanted and despite even having a way of undoing this within its own narrative just completely forgets about it because "who cares idiots?". So basically we have a film whose core concepts just never should have existed in the first place. You can almost compare it to the star wars prequels (even though Generations is infinitely better then those abominations) in that its a story that didn't need to be told.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:28
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MikeJF posted:If they absolutely had to kill Kirk and the Enterprise-D in Generations, they clearly needed to have Kirk punch Picard and throw him in an escape pod then ride the Enterprise-D into a Romulan Warbird to save Earth. Then you would have the 'Kirk vs Picard' Picard fans pissed because Kirk had to come and gently caress up Picard's ship. Kirk needed to go down with his own ship. Enterprise D should have been on the ropes, going to be destroyed and loss everyone. Not enough time to seperate the sausor or get people to escape-pods/life-boats. The first go through, it is destroyed and everyone dies. But Picard is in the Nexus and finds Kirk and convinces him to come back with him. Some technobabel reason why they can't go back any farther than just before the Enterprise D is destroyed. Rewind to the Enterprise D on the ropes, things seem hopeless again, when the Enterprise (no bloody A, B C, or D) comes out of the nexus, Kirk is at the captains chair. He looks around his empty bridge and slowly his crew, as they appeared in the original show, fades in to their positions. He smiles and orders Mr. Sulu to get them in between the Romulan Warbird and the Enterprise D. The original enterprise intercepts the warbirds fire long enough for the Ent D to separate the saucer with the survivors aboard. But the saucer is hit and damaged before it can escape, causing it to descend to the planet it below, but at least it is clear of the battle and the star drive section as it explodes. The original Enterprise is no match for the Romulan Warbird and Kirk knows it. Warp engines off line, weapons off line, life support failing, hull critical. He sees that the Ent D made it to the planet's atmosphere and orders the original Enterprise to ram the Warbird and maximum impulse destroying both ships in a massive special effect. Then we can return to the planet to resolve the fight between Picard and Soran or what ever. Hell, have the saucer section land on him.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:32
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Then again, the whole Kirk vs. Picard argument is silly anyway. Sisko is clearly the best captain of the franchise. He even was the lead designer on his own ship.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:52
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Literally every ludicrous fan fiction idea for improving Generations is way better than what we got, god drat.
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Sep 21, 2014 20:36
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