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Geight posted:Are we sure the arena FPS needs to be revived? Only if it looks like this: 
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Sep 22, 2014 18:28
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Segmentation Fault posted:Anyone check out the IKBlue/IKWhite Map Jam pack for Quake 1? The Wizard theme and derivatives is my favorite theme for Quake because it feels very Quake-y while moving away from the brown-grey that dominates the Quake palette in other themes. The map jam itself has many different themes going on, from a lava level serving up gobs of red to an Arabian-style courtyard colored in warm sunlight, to downright cold winter-themed maps. Funny thing is, whoever made that particular map didn't set up the CD audio correctly. I think they were trying to use CD Track 2, the title theme, but they instead set it up to use CD Track 1, which is the data track and can't be played as audio. Now, I ripped the CD's audio tracks to my source port's directory ages ago, because I'm not that interested in keeping the Quake CD in the drive any time I feel like playing Quake. Instead, I had a music CD in the drive, which the source port defaulted to when it couldn't find the ripped track. As such, I got to run around an overly-large Arabian cave with tons of ambushing Shamblers to "Amigos Para Siempre". Surreal, to put it mildly. Cream-of-Plenty posted:This is now a thread about Alan Wake.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:31
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Alan Wake is a game so depressingly far up it's own rear end. Somehow Remedy didn't realize that fighting haunted construction equipment wasn't fun, and that baffles me. Then there's poo poo like the recreation of the shot from The Shining where Jack Nicholson bashes through a door with an axe, but then Alan's narration says, "It was like Jack Nicholson in The Shining." gently caress you, Sam Lake. Also Enjay's release is pretty decent. Too many hitscan dudes, not enough health though. And why he decided to use butt rear end ugly Quake 2 weapon models I don't know. It's fun though, aside from a little frustration. I love seeing the type of stuff people can pull off in G/ZDoom.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:43
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I liked Sam Lake's stuff very much. It's cool how surreal but logical (in a symbolic sense) everything is. Great game despite the poor combat.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:50
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Alan Wake's okay. I need to finish it at some point, I only got up to the first "episode". It doesn't do anything amazing, and, yeah, the writing gets ham-handed at points, but it's still kinda interesting. Do people still even play Quake 1 or 2's multiplayer? And speaking of which, what's the closest thing I can get to Darkplaces in Quake 2? I know Berserker is popular, but it's finicky to work with...
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Sep 22, 2014 22:53
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The fact that Smooth Doom changes switch patches and stuff is really pissing me off. The last 3 wads I've played all had hosed up switch textures because of this poo poo. I tried to make a patchless version but I broke other things. EDIT: On a second try I think I got it working. You need to remove TEXTURES.*, TEXTURE2, ANIMDEFS, PATCHES, and FLATS from the pk3 using 7zip or something. SavageMessiah fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 00:17
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JackMackerel posted:Do people still even play Quake 1 or 2's multiplayer? Don't quote me on this, but I believe Quake 1's multiplayer scene is still quite active with the sourceport QuakeNet.
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Sep 23, 2014 00:29
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I miss Loki CTF for Quake 2. Basically just CTF with grappling hooks.
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Sep 23, 2014 00:39
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closeted republican posted:Only if it looks like this: Dude you don't even have truebright mode enabled. Jesus Chriminies.
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Sep 23, 2014 00:55
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:If you check out the Steam guides for DN3D:Megaton Edition, I think there's a guide or a link to get it, or at least a better sounding version. I was asking for the SC-88 sounds themselves, not for improved Duke music.
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Sep 23, 2014 00:58
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All this arena FPS talk makes me want to reinstall RedEclipse. It was simultaneously one of the freshest, most original arena shooters I've ever played, and one of the most half-baked, unpolished standalone games I've ever played. If you have a fetish for both amazing movement systems and godawful menu UIs, RedEclipse has you covered.
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Sep 23, 2014 01:30
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Arena shooters these days focus too much on "amazing skill-based movement systems" and not enough on making the movement system intuitive. Moving through the game world should be fast, fluid, and something you do without thinking too much or having to exploit bugs in game physics. If you want to make arena FPSes more accessible, don't automate bunny-hopping. KILL IT.
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Sep 23, 2014 01:52
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Have you considered trying the UT4 alpha?
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Sep 23, 2014 02:01
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Woolie Wool posted:Arena shooters these days focus too much on "amazing skill-based movement systems" and not enough on making the movement system intuitive. Moving through the game world should be fast, fluid, and something you do without thinking too much or having to exploit bugs in game physics. If you want to make arena FPSes more accessible, don't automate bunny-hopping. KILL IT. That's what I liked about RedEclipse. The movement wasn't all bunny hopping and rocket jumping, it was based around wall running, double jumping, jetpacking (under certain rules), and using as much of the level's architecture as possible. And like you said is so important, it was fluid and intuitive. It felt like what they were trying to pin down in the UT games but could never get right.
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Sep 23, 2014 02:07
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Did UT99 have this kind of culture around it? I don't remember.
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Sep 23, 2014 02:11
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Gashroom posted:Did UT99 have this kind of culture around it? I don't remember. I somehow don't think so, since the genre was newer them, plus a LOT of people played LAN or, when desperate or on dial up, single player.
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Sep 23, 2014 02:28
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UT99 has a lot of people who use new renderers with HDR and 4k x 4k textures, so I don't know. UT2k4 has some of it with UTComp, though I don't think you can force the textures to be that bad in UE2.5.
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Sep 23, 2014 02:28
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Elliotw2 posted:Have you considered trying the UT4 alpha? That's publicly available?
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Sep 23, 2014 02:31
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There's been builds posted on github and stuff, I don't think they pulled them down or anything. edit: You can get them here, but you have to make a Unreal forums account and understand it's super alpha still. Karasu Tengu fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 02:33
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DoombatINC posted:All this arena FPS talk makes me want to reinstall RedEclipse. It was simultaneously one of the freshest, most original arena shooters I've ever played, and one of the most half-baked, unpolished standalone games I've ever played. If you have a fetish for both amazing movement systems and godawful menu UIs, RedEclipse has you covered. Holy poo poo this is an ugly game.
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Sep 23, 2014 02:36
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No it needs more Tron lines, I'm not blind yet.  Anyone remember Nexuiz? The real one that ran on DarkPlaces and was free. I found it a completely obtuse and incomprehensible game, its weapons seemed to be weird just for the sake of weirdness.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:04
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Yodzilla posted:Holy poo poo this is an ugly game. Actually, being the Cube Engine explains why people are claiming the UI is complete horseshit. Because the Cube Engine's UI is horseshit. I don't know why they thought it would be a good idea to pull it up in-world in front of you and have you use mouselook to navigate through it. I've actually not played much Cube Engine stuff, though, mostly because it's focused on multiplayer and none of my friends are generally interested. The sparse amounts of single-player content is usually highly mediocre.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:06
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I thought Alan Wake was a pretty rad game. I enjoyed the plot even if it was rather hammy and derivative of, like, everything. I even had fun fighting the possessed harvesters! The scene where you fight off waves of dudes on the heavy metal stage was fuckin' awesome, too.. I never beat the second DLC because my motherboard died right after I started it and I never bothered to install it on my new computer, oh well. Never got around to American Nightmare either.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:14
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QW/CPMA movement has a high skill ceiling but the basic techniques are not that hard. If "jump while turn mouse then repeat" is too hard for a player, they are probably not going to develop their skills far enough to do the other things in an arena shooter all that well either.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:24
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Woolie Wool posted:Arena shooters these days focus too much on "amazing skill-based movement systems" and not enough on making the movement system intuitive. Moving through the game world should be fast, fluid, and something you do without thinking too much or having to exploit bugs in game physics. If you want to make arena FPSes more accessible, don't automate bunny-hopping. KILL IT. Yeah Tribes would have been a much better game if they patched out skiing early on and people had to to play the game the way it was meant to be played.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:24
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Bathtub Cheese posted:QW/CPMA movement has a high skill ceiling but the basic techniques are not that hard. If "jump a lot while turn mouse" is too hard for a player, they are probably not going to develop their skills far enough to do the other things in an arena shooter all that well either. It's a much higher barrier to entry than, say, Call of Duty. You have to appreciate modern FPSes for being a lot more intuitive and less punishing to new players. Nobody in this day and age has the patience or the desire to start playing a new game where they can get their asses handed to them all the time by veterans that have the advantage of knowing the game's idiosyncrasies and mechanics. I'm guessing it's because the market is so loving saturated with multiplayer FPSes. If you don't enjoy a new shooter right away, that's okay because you can dump it and move on to another one. And you're going to have to anyway because in two months all the servers will be empty. If you want to make a game that has a very particular physics system with a high barrier of entry (and yes, "jump a lot while turn mouse" is a high barrier of entry for the market), it's going to loving fail in 2014.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:32
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Bunny hopping and trick jumps are not a problem. The problem is matchmaking. High skill techniques shouldn't be removed because players can't find anyone to play against at an appropriate skill level. The only thing you achieve by lowering the skill ceiling is a shallower game.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:33
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RyokoTK posted:It's a much higher barrier to entry than, say, Call of Duty. The notion that quake is less intuitive than Call of Duty is completely ridiculous. Anyone can learn the basics of quake in two minutes. You move, jump, aim, and fire. Call of duty has all kinds of unintuitive mechanics that you have just gotten used to, like iron sights and going prone. High level play in quake is somewhat unintuitive, but that is true of any game - unless the game in question has illusory high level play based on rpg progression and unlocks.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:36
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I used to work in a video store that had quake 3 installed on the point of sales machines. Non gamers playing against casual opponents is an absolute blast. The game is truly pick up and play like the best nintendo games.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:38
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Amethyst posted:Bunny hopping and trick jumps are not a problem. The problem is matchmaking. High skill techniques shouldn't be removed because players can't find anyone to play against at an appropriate skill level. The only thing you achieve by lowering the skill ceiling is a shallower game. If you could anticipate ten million people buying your video game, I'd say this is a legitimate argument, but it isn't. Arena FPSes are super niche and even popular ones are going to have a small community and a small pool of players, where you can't really isolate the skilled from the scrubs. I'm not great at shooters and I don't have any desire in being utterly dominated by people that can manipulate the game's physics that much better than I can. If I were to buy this theoretical new game, and I got my rear end handed to me completely by someone who has the map memorized and can literally run circles around me, I'd just quit right away. And I know with certainty that I'm not the only one. Amethyst posted:The notion that quake is less intuitive than Call of Duty is completely ridiculous. Anyone can learn the basics of quake in two minutes. You move, jump, aim, and fire. Implying that moving quickly in Quake 3 is "just jumping" is so loving disingenuous.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:40
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Look at this poo poo http://www.wikihow.com/Dominate-in-Call-of-Duty-4 Counter intuitive nonsense based on esoteric knowlege.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:40
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RyokoTK posted:If you could anticipate ten million people buying your video game, I'd say this is a legitimate argument, but it isn't. Arena FPSes are super niche and even popular ones are going to have a small community and a small pool of players, where you can't really isolate the skilled from the scrubs. I'm not great at shooters and I don't have any desire in being utterly dominated by people that can manipulate the game's physics that much better than I can. If I were to buy this theoretical new game, and I got my rear end handed to me completely by someone who has the map memorized and can literally run circles around me, I'd just quit right away. And I know with certainty that I'm not the only one. I'm not interested in your dull business arguments. Market rationalism is a terrible perspective to argue game design.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:41
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RyokoTK posted:Arena FPSes are super niche and even popular ones are going to have a small community and a small pool of players, where you can't really isolate the skilled from the scrubs.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:43
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Designing games based on market rationalism is what gave us pay to win and "player investment system" skinner box games.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:44
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as someone said earlier, if a high barrier to entry, a community hostile to newcomers, and gameplay that punishes poor play are unmarketable, that doesn't explain the presence of MOBAs as a huge moneymaker.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:44
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Also, the market argument doesn't hold up in a context where MOBAs are the fastest growing genre in gaming. EDIT: ^^^^^Yeah what fag boy jim said Amethyst fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 03:45
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Fag Boy Jim posted:as someone said earlier, if a high barrier to entry, a community hostile to newcomers, and gameplay that punishes poor play are unmarketable, that doesn't explain the presence of MOBAs as a huge moneymaker. Mobas are not hard to play at a low level at all. In fact they're way more approachable than the 1v1 RTS games they supplanted. They're also free to play.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:45
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If you want an example in the realm of fps games, look no further than counter strike global offensive.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:45
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Amethyst posted:Look at this poo poo All of that is basic first person shooter stuff. What is esoteric about any of that? You could apply all of those tips to any multiplayer shooter. I will admit I didn't realize you could shoot the helicopter.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:47
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:All of that is basic first person shooter stuff. What is esoteric about any of that? You could apply all of those tips to any multiplayer shooter. I will admit I didn't realize you could shoot the helicopter. It is objectively more esoteric than the basic mechanics of quake 3.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:48
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