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WarLocke posted:The other point was that pulses are a valid choice in a chassis that is all about facing the target for the least amount of time so you can spread the damage around more. Not really. The build is tight enough that you're giving up too much to use them, and in ideal cent play even the normal mediums don't get consistently used. You lose too many SRM volleys due to overheat if you use the mediums and end up doing less total damage. The only time the build is "supposed" to use the mediums is if you're not getting shot because you're directly behind someone, in which case great the slightly shorter pulse beam doesn't matter and you don't need to be twisting. If you are getting shot at, you shouldn't use the lasers at all, you just dump SRMs and keep going. Or you're a popsicle, in which case welp.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:23
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Gwaihir posted:Not really. The build is tight enough that you're giving up too much to use them, and in ideal cent play even the normal mediums don't get consistently used. You lose too many SRM volleys due to overheat if you use the mediums and end up doing less total damage. It's not that I don't understand your point. It's just I don't understand how you can only ascribe to one playstyle while rejecting others. 12 vs 12 with clans feel like a wholly different beast than any sort of IS only match. You want to do as much damage as possible in a short amount of time otherwise you're going to get alpha-ed down. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using your lasers with your missiles. I have not encountered a situation where my heat was an issue in this regard.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:02
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"Clantech is a huge pile of stupid bullshit and I'm jaw droppingly incredulous that they put it in the game wholesale as is" is a whole nother can of worms. You're right that with 12v12 brawls don't really last long enough for heat efficiency differences to matter though. That's something to keep in mind with all the mech sperging, really- we debate and obsessively fine tune builds down to a couple points of armor and a DHS in one location or another, but, really, the overall thing is so laughably off kilter that it's never really going to amount to all that much in reality. Even when it was IS only, in competitive team matches, optimizations were small, but meaningful differences. 12v12 and clans have basically tossed that all out the door. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 16:04
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Gwaihir posted:"Clantech is a huge pile of stupid bullshit and I'm jaw droppingly incredulous that they put it in the game wholesale as is" is a whole nother can of worms. I have been enjoying 12 vs 12 with clans. At first it was hard to deal with. New clan weapons and chassis'. I'm not a huge Mechwarrior sperg so I didn't exactly know what they all did. It took me probably quite a few games to learn that patience and positioning are even more important now. I'm comfortable playing against all the clans, being able to exploit their weakness. I know I can pretty easily take a Timberwolf out in my Atlas. Which admittedly does sound like a lovely statement because I have 15 tons on him. It's really the speed of the Timberwolf that is the main problem. That or they should have given every chassis jumpjets to give it less weapon tonnage, like the Summoner.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:13
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I use what is fun for me, I love medium pulse lasers cause they have nice visual and audio FX, I rarely use medium lasers cause they just feel weak in terms of visual/audio feedback. I know that often a normal medium laser would be the better choice, but I tend to equip what is fun for me to use and not what is the best. This might change if we ever get a meaningful endgame, like some community warfare stuff. In that case optimizing builds is part of the 'fun' as it plays into fullfilling a role in a pre-determined team, etc. But as long as it's just stompy robots shooting each other in random arenas I will use whatever sounds and/or looks nice. If it ends up beeing a good build that's just a bonus.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:14
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Gwaihir posted:"Clantech is a huge pile of stupid bullshit and I'm jaw droppingly incredulous that they put it in the game wholesale as is" is a whole nother can of worms. At least they gave Clan LRMs some sort of drawback (instead of them doing full damage at 0 meters like in table-top)  Also I just double-checked the anniversary post and we don't get the CN9-AH today; we get it on October 21st.  Guess I need to start saving up for/figuring out what to do with a CN9-D...Maybe lean into the big-engine gimmick and make a light-hunter/vulture? MLas, SSRM, MG, BAP?
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Sep 23, 2014 16:21
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WarLocke posted:At least they gave Clan LRMs some sort of drawback (instead of them doing full damage at 0 meters like in table-top) Taking an XL with 2x SRM6, 2x ML is pretty drat fun. The speed, boys! You could add two MGs if that gets you hard. But, uh, yeah..
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Sep 23, 2014 16:26
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Kazvall posted:You could add two MGs if that gets you hard. But, uh, yeah.. Look I have an irrational fear of Embers now, MGs on unarmored sections is ridiculous.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:30
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Kazvall posted:I have been enjoying 12 vs 12 with clans. At first it was hard to deal with. New clan weapons and chassis'. I'm not a huge Mechwarrior sperg so I didn't exactly know what they all did. It took me probably quite a few games to learn that patience and positioning are even more important now. I'm comfortable playing against all the clans, being able to exploit their weakness. I know I can pretty easily take a Timberwolf out in my Atlas. Which admittedly does sound like a lovely statement because I have 15 tons on him. It's really the speed of the Timberwolf that is the main problem. That or they should have given every chassis jumpjets to give it less weapon tonnage, like the Summoner. Clans don't really have any weaknesses, all their gear is 100% straight up better in every single way. The only thing PGI did to limit them was sticking to the TT clan Omni construction rules (You can't change out the fixed equipment like engine, structure, armor, heatsinks, sometimes jets or weapons) while letting all IS mechs perform full factory level refits (Change anything at all) at will. Not being able to change out engines DOES significantly handicap some clan mechs, but not all of them, and even without engine swaps clan weapons are better enough that they're still going to vastly out-gun anything they face. For reference, most timberwolf variants in TT are worth about 1000 BV more than most atlases. They also generally cost more than twice as much since they all have XL engines. 2 Mad Cat As have a higher BV and cost 19,405,780 cbills more than THREE Atlas-RSes. (Yea, stock atlases suck, but w/e). WarLocke posted:At least they gave Clan LRMs some sort of drawback (instead of them doing full damage at 0 meters like in table-top) Streaks have been hit with the nerfbat so many times that they are just plain god awful. Depending on how you feel about Artemis you could probably swap it for a machingun, although I'd be hesitant to do that- Weapons in cent arms sorta get in the way of using your arms for the whole torso shielding gimmick that Cents are so good for. The Fasturion is a fun, but expensive mech. Disclaimer from the old Wiki page still applies: IMPORTANT NOTICE: While we here at the Word of Lowtax understand that human interaction might be difficult for you, ASK SOMEONE about this build first. We don't want you to spend six million c-bills on an XL370 and be disappointed with it. If you just want to grind out XP on this chassis, use the Zombie Fasturion instead. Tons: 50 Speed: 119.88 KPH Alpha: 28 MaxDPS: 7 Heat Ratio: 0.5 Description The Fasturion is a light 'mech in a Centurion chassis. While the weapon loadout is similar to the other Centurion builds, the big engine allows for a top speed of 120 kph with Speed Tweak, allowing this 'mech to keep up with Cicadas and light 'mechs. Unfortunately, the XL engine means that this isn't nearly as survivable as other Centurion builds, and you'll be much more reliant on absorbing hits with your arms. It features twin SRM6+ A and two ML, with FF, Endo, DHS, XL370, and 4 tons of ammo. The zombie version swaps the hug expensive XL370 for a std 300, which you likely have plenty of. Also quoting from ye olde wiki: Description This isn't a serious business build, as it's not fast enough to outrun anything important, while also lacking the punch of the Centurion A. What this is good for is grinding out your elite efficiencies on Centurions without laying down six million c-bitcoins on a massive XL engine to build a proper Fasturion. This uses Artemis because Centurion Ds come with it and the real Fasturion uses it. This plays like a Centurion A. Hide behind heavier teammates, shoot what everyone else is shooting in the butt. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 16:32
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Gwaihir posted:Clans don't really have any weaknesses, all their gear is 100% straight up better in every single way. The only thing PGI did to limit them was sticking to the TT clan Omni construction rules (You can't change out the fixed equipment like engine, structure, armor, heatsinks, sometimes jets or weapons) while letting all IS mechs perform full factory level refits (Change anything at all) at will. It seems as if the aspect of clan balancing is being done with heat and pinpoint damage. A UAC-20 fires 5 bullets per trigger pull, doing 4 per hit. It's incredibly hard to aim against lights and mediums that are moving. They just increased both the duration and heat of clan lasers making aim and window of advantage much more important. If you want to be doing high damage you'll now have really high heat. Most clan mechs suffer certain weaknesses in my eyes. Both lights are stupid slow compared to IS lights and are not an issue. The nova, being an energy boat, is hugely crippled by the heat penalties on it. The Summoner suffers from poor build designs and carries less firepower than the Stormcrow. The DireWolf is very slow and easily dealt with, or to run away from. If caught out of position the DW is hosed. Lastly, a large majority of clan mechs carry most of their payload in the arms. Neutering them is not an issue. This is the only 'weakness' I can put on the Stormcrow and Timberwolf, otherwise they are top contenders for the best mechs in game, at the moment. We'll see how it goes when the next wave is released. Looking at the stats I'm not too worry about anything except the Mad Dog being able to do an incredible alpha before shutting down.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:49
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Kazvall posted:We'll see how it goes when the next wave is released. Looking at the stats I'm not too worry about anything except the Mad Dog being able to do an incredible alpha before shutting down. I haven't theorycrafted it or anything but the Loki has a lot of pod space, a pretty drat good variety of hardpoint loadouts, AND ECM as a heavy mech. I really think it's going to be the standout of the next wave.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:58
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WarLocke posted:Look I have an irrational fear of Embers now, MGs on unarmored sections is ridiculous. Want to be a real dick? 3 mediums, 4 mg, 1 flamer. If I recall, carrying multiple flamers doesn't even increase heat so you only need 1 to be a dick. So which 3 DireWhales do I want to buy for cbills tonight?
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Sep 23, 2014 17:01
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In a world where the Shadowhawk is one of the best IS Mediums available, I can believe Loki has a chance to shine. 
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Sep 23, 2014 17:02
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Galaga Galaxian posted:In a world where the Shadowhawk is one of the best IS Mediums available, I can believe Loki has a chance to shine. Every Loki is one less Timber Wolf, it's a heavy. On the other hand, ECM on a heavy!
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Sep 23, 2014 17:24
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Kazvall posted:It seems as if the aspect of clan balancing is being done with heat and pinpoint damage. A UAC-20 fires 5 bullets per trigger pull, doing 4 per hit. It's incredibly hard to aim against lights and mediums that are moving. They just increased both the duration and heat of clan lasers making aim and window of advantage much more important. If you want to be doing high damage you'll now have really high heat. PGI increased c-ERML and c-ERSL heat by 1 over tabletop. Big whoop. cERLL and cLPLs are 2 points cooler. PPCs are totally unchanged. Ballistics and missiles are totally unchanged. Yea, clan mechs deal with weapons generating vastly more heat than they do in TT due to cycle times + nerfed DHS, but that's nothing unique to them at all, IS stuff has the same problem. In short, loving LOL at the clans and loving LOL at PGI for implementing the most heinously unbalanced addition to an already heinously unbalanced TT game wholesale.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:25
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Gwaihir posted:PGI increased c-ERML and c-ERSL heat by 1 over tabletop. Big whoop. cERLL and cLPLs are 2 points cooler. PPCs are totally unchanged. Ballistics and missiles are totally unchanged. Yea, clan mechs deal with weapons generating vastly more heat than they do in TT due to cycle times + nerfed DHS, but that's nothing unique to them at all, IS stuff has the same problem. PPC's don't deal all 15 damage to a single location, 5 points of it splashes to surrounding locations. Their autocannons fire in bursts which make them better at shaking enemy mechs, but bad at actually punching holes in armor compared to IS AC's. Clan lasers have had their ranges reduced from TT as well, though they're still superior to IS version at everything except burn time for the beams. Missiles don't do full damage inside 180 meters, unlike TT. Edit: clan lasers are too good still, and Gauss is still Gauss. If they fix those issues the gap will close pretty sharply between IS and Clans, even with the weight advantage Clans get.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:42
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veedubfreak posted:Want to be a real dick? 3 mediums, 4 mg, 1 flamer. If I recall, carrying multiple flamers doesn't even increase heat so you only need 1 to be a dick. Doesn't matter, you can swap out the pods for a few hundered thousand c-bills to fit anything you like on any chassis. The B comes with 2 ballistic slots in each side torso, so it's not as easily crippled by getting his arms cut off. The A has two missile slots in one of his torsos so he can missile boat the best of them. But you can mount each of those torsos and any arm on any variant anyway.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:43
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Feindfeuer posted:Doesn't matter, you can swap out the pods for a few hundered thousand c-bills to fit anything you like on any chassis. The B comes with 2 ballistic slots in each side torso, so it's not as easily crippled by getting his arms cut off. The A has two missile slots in one of his torsos so he can missile boat the best of them. But you can mount each of those torsos and any arm on any variant anyway. There are only 3 Direwolfs anyway, and you need all three to get the basics, so I'm guessing he meant what three builds are recommended.
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Sep 23, 2014 18:12
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This thread title 
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Sep 23, 2014 18:14
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EoRaptor posted:There are only 3 Direwolfs anyway, and you need all three to get the basics, so I'm guessing he meant what three builds are recommended. Ya for some reason I thought there were 4. I looked the B has a dick laser while the other 2 have no center torso equipment, so that'll be the one to keep. Someone explain how clan lbx works. Or are they still just a shotgun like IS lbx. The big question is, will I be able to grind out enough cbills before the Twolf comes out with these whales.
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Sep 23, 2014 18:24
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veedubfreak posted:Ya for some reason I thought there were 4. I looked the B has a dick laser while the other 2 have no center torso equipment, so that'll be the one to keep. Someone explain how clan lbx works. Or are they still just a shotgun like IS lbx. Shotgun, performs just like an IS one. E: Every Direwolf build I throw together comes up crit locked. This mech is so gimped by that engine it's not funny. E2: Blergh E3: Firestopper E4: Paper Jam Dire EoRaptor fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 18:25
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Okay mechromancers, how do these setups look? CN9-A "Menturion" CN9-AL "Lenturion" (Such an original name, I know  )Not sure if I really need a max engine in the latter, since it's more of a sniper/harasser. But you can never have too much speed, and the only other things I could pick up would be another half-ton of armor on the legs or more heat sinks...
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Sep 23, 2014 19:16
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WarLocke posted:Okay mechromancers, how do these setups look? Yep, those sure are the menturian and large lenturian from the old days. Though, we did normal larges not ER, and it is less effective ever since ghost heat. If you want brawling AL try the classic lenturian, 4 ml 2 srm6. The menturian is a classic build that is fun because it is actually really customize-able, artemis can be added to make it a bit more of a skirmisher, and AMS can make it more of a support mech for the assaults you chill with.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:25
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WarLocke posted:Okay mechromancers, how do these setups look? I suspect you'll find the ERLLs far too hot, looks good otherwise though.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:36
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Is the next wave gonna give light pilots anything new at all? Kit Foxes don't go fast enough to get me off but I crave something new and not man shaped. An ECM heavy would be a significant game changer if only because it frees up an assault from ghost dad duty.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:05
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Paramemetic posted:Is the next wave gonna give light pilots anything new at all? Kit Foxes don't go fast enough to get me off but I crave something new and not man shaped. The Koshi (/Dasher IIRC) is a faster ECM-capable light, it's not going to be able to mount as many guns though (6-7 tons after ECM and maxing armor IIRC).
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Sep 23, 2014 20:17
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Koshi/Mist Lynx is the same speed as a stock Jenner (Aka not fantastic, but not nearly as bad as a kitfox). It also has 6 fixed jump jets and an active probe, leaving 7.5 tons of weapons space to go with the stock 3.5 tons of armor. At least it comes with DHS, XL engine, FF, and Endo, so fully loaded. The C variant carries ECM, AMS, an ERLL, and an ERML. Not a bad support/annoyance.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:26
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EoRaptor posted:Shotgun, performs just like an IS one. That's what I kept running into. Needs endo... How many uac2s can I fire at once without ghost heat? veedubfreak fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 20:31
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The fact it comes with a fixed XL engine, and low for the tonnage and that, means that adding endo would only make your problem bigger: you would run out of logistic space on your mech even faster.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:35
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veedubfreak posted:How many uac2s can I fire at once without ghost heat?
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Sep 23, 2014 20:37
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Ugh reading through all these drat mech builds is seriously making me give this another chance in it's current state despite ghost heat and dumb PGI.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:41
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hello internet posted:Ugh reading through all these drat mech builds is seriously making me give this another chance in it's current state despite ghost heat and dumb PGI. Play MegaMech, MY LORD! (Discretely)
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Sep 23, 2014 20:47
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This seems ill advised, but it should be entertaining. Ill Advised Less retarded build slightly less craptacular veedubfreak fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 20:54
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The new map is pretty awesome, there's tons of cover to break up firing lines but it's mostly low cover so LRMs aren't neutered.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:58
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Stupid question time: do all clan autocannons fire in bursts or just the ultra's? Also why are the ultra's cheaper than the regular for clan. I don't get it. Just  or is there some merit in the price difference?
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Sep 23, 2014 21:21
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WarLocke posted:The new map is pretty awesome, there's tons of cover to break up firing lines but it's mostly low cover so LRMs aren't neutered. So hiding behind a rock* and spamming LRMs while complaining about ECM is still the meta game?  *or something
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Sep 23, 2014 21:22
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Mindblast posted:Stupid question time: do all clan autocannons fire in bursts or just the ultra's? Also why are the ultra's cheaper than the regular for clan. I don't get it. Just They're only there to be "placeholders" for the solid rounds LB-X's are supposed to have as an option. I don't know why they bothered honestly.
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Sep 23, 2014 21:26
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EoRaptor posted:So hiding behind a rock* and spamming LRMs while complaining about ECM is still the meta game? When did it stop being the meta?
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Sep 23, 2014 21:28
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The Gate posted:They're only there to be "placeholders" for the solid rounds LB-X's are supposed to have as an option. I don't know why they bothered honestly. Rofl, that's really funny. Instead of making a toggle for ammo they just put in "normal" clan ACs. TT clans don't even have/use normal ACs, so I had no clue why those existed ingame either. veedubfreak posted:When did it stop being the meta? Pick any of the 5 times that they hosed up missile hit detection and they did no damage! (Balanced by the times when missiles exploded in such a large raduis that getting hit in the foot would blow your head off).
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Sep 23, 2014 21:29
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EoRaptor posted:So hiding behind a rock* and spamming LRMs while complaining about ECM is still the meta game? Idunno, the one match Ripersnifel, Kazvall and I had in it turned into a really awesome mobile brawl because there's no real way to set up firing lines and tons of ways to flank positions. Maybe once people learn the map it'll settle down but it's kind of the opposite of Alpine/Caustic right now IMO (there's basically no wide open areas). As for LRMs, it's weird I kind of want to try a lurm boat because it seems effective as hell whenever I'm being poo poo on, but red dudes drop off radar all the loving time between ECM and Radar Deprivation so I'm not sure how those other guys are managing to actually hit poo poo with them. e: Someone talk me out of buying a Locust. Only 1.5mil for the chassis!
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Sep 23, 2014 21:30
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