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My Lovely Horse posted:With Masterplan. If I didn't have a laptop set up with that and a secondary monitor stashed where we play, I flat out couldn't DM. Ugh I'd have to DM in Windows. Yuck.
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Sep 19, 2014 20:49
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Mendrian posted:I think the shrouds-as-separate-damage instance is dumb if only because it requires you to optimize the assassin in a very narrow and specific (and unintuitive) way. Like usually I come to a board like this to answer a question about whether a character class is poo poo based on some poor noob who wants to play one in my game and I'm not going to hand him a binder full of acceptable options that narrowly work within the confines of an ambiguous ruling. Executioner just gives them a flat damage bonus on all weapon attacks, and they're still an assasin. They're just missing the fun shadowy things.
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Sep 19, 2014 21:06
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The Executioner may be more effective but it's also boring as hell. One Encounter power (ever) and an anemic selection of daily powers, then you're down to spamming at-wills basically. They have some cool and flavorful utility powers and I guess the out-of-combat applications of poisons could be fun provided all the pieces fall into place for you to use them that way, but after having played an Executioner through several mini-campaigns I'm in no hurry to do it again.
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Sep 19, 2014 22:02
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How bad is the blackguard?
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Sep 19, 2014 22:11
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S.J. posted:How bad is the blackguard? Fairly dull as a striker with aspirations at tanking, not incredible DPR, most of its powers work better on a paladin.
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Sep 19, 2014 22:25
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It depends, do you want to abuse strict wording of the rules by making a human blackguard who's only stat that matters is charisma with near infinite temporary hit points? If so it's boring but pretty okay. Do you actually want to play them as designed? If so they're not great.
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Sep 19, 2014 22:28
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Just wanted to make sure. If I ever play out my evil Paladin fantasy, I'll just use the actual paladin and steal blackguard stuff from time to time.
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Sep 19, 2014 22:29
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Honestly most of the Essentials stuff seems more useful as a Lego pile of spare parts to pillage for the non-Essentials classes a lot of the time (like, Slayers and Knights are pretty dull but Glowering Threat for a 4E Fighter? Yes please).
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Sep 19, 2014 22:33
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Kurieg posted:It depends, do you want to abuse strict wording of the rules by making a human blackguard who's only stat that matters is charisma with near infinite temporary hit points? If so it's boring but pretty okay. Even if you do, they're pretty bad (the other options are half-elf and tiefling, FWIW). Blackguards have high damage MBAs and semi-double-tap encounter powers, but nothing else that makes them strikery - no true multi-attacks, in particular. I've had fun playing one, but king of the strikers it very much ain't. It'll hit baseline, no problem - but you can hit striker baseline entirely classlessly by charging anyway... Blackguards are MUCH better if you hybrid them with Executioner. Kai Tave posted:Honestly most of the Essentials stuff seems more useful as a Lego pile of spare parts to pillage for the non-Essentials classes a lot of the time (like, Slayers and Knights are pretty dull but Glowering Threat for a 4E Fighter? Yes please). And Knights have a few tricks of their own up their sleeve. I particularly like the Eladrin build which basically plays like an Essentials-ised Swordmage - blink everywhere, piss the enemy off no end. Played with only Essentials materials, they're dull as loving ditchwater, though.
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Sep 19, 2014 23:43
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Either way the point seems to stand that the way to make Essentials stuff interesting is to mash it up with the pre-Essentials stuff which is where most of the interesting bits come into play.
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Sep 19, 2014 23:48
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Kai Tave posted:Either way the point seems to stand that the way to make Essentials stuff interesting is to mash it up with the pre-Essentials stuff which is where most of the interesting bits come into play. Well, that's not fair. The Essentials Wizard is pretty great, and I'm fond of the Skald's play pattern. The boring Essentials classes are basically just the classes that are boring in every other edition of D&D besides 4e, and they were made that way on purpose.
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Sep 19, 2014 23:58
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The Essentials Wizard is almost literally the PHB1 Wizard though, unless that's the joke. The Skald is definitely a much better example of an interesting Essentials class though, as is the Berserker.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:05
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The Skald added a hell of a lot to the o-Bard, and suffered hugely in action economy terms. Conceptually it was great, but the aura really needed either to be at-will, or to be a free action to turn on. And needed to extend to 10/15 squares by tier. But then, I'd question the assertion that the Skald was Essentials. I'm never quite sure where the line is drawn though - both the Skald and the Berserker used some fairly essentials-y mechanics, but in terms of class design were very much pre-e in structure and functionality. Despite CharOp's fairly universal derision, I really like the berserker. I mean, it's basically a Knight with a couple fo bitching dailies (especially the aura-expander one) which can take Battle Awareness. What's not to like? I really like playing mine, currently languishing rather unplayed though D:
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Sep 20, 2014 00:08
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I'm working on a half-elf skald who does almost nothing but spam Eldritch Strike after hooking Purple Dragon Knight/Academy Master/all the White Lotus feats. I can't tell if this is the worst build or the worstbest.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:11
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Most of the White Lotus feats are trash, TBH. But that's a solid core to a build. But again, one which has a tendency to work better on an o-Bard than a Skald. All the Dimensional Step and Echoing Weapon powers still work, but your class features are more useful and a lot less fiddly and minor-action-intensive. If you play the Skald RAW, you're spending two minors on your first turn to activate the aura and use an at-will, then charging (hope you're in range). Should be fun though, which in the end is what matters. Worstbest for my money is the silly-rear end Eldritch Strike Knight build which takes advantage of WotC's lovely errata policy to use White Lotus Master Riposte on aura targets. Which are not, technically, marked, so you can MBA them if they do literally anything except both hit you and make you unable to hit them back as a reaction. Of course, I'd slap it with a fish as a DM, but even with just straight WLR, it's a solid catch-22 defender.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:20
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thespaceinvader posted:Most of the White Lotus feats are trash, TBH. Yeah White Lotus by themselves are not very good in most cases. The ones where you riposte the hell out of people who hit you back, yeah maybe. It's a total gimmick build where every turn I literally pop as many end-of-turn fiddly bullshit bonuses as I can. I think in epic play it will just get trashed. I would have preferred o-bard (probably valorous) but having things to do besides eldritch strike/aura/endless selection of minors really negates the point of the build.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:28
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Kai Tave posted:The Essentials Wizard is almost literally the PHB1 Wizard though, unless that's the joke. The Skald is definitely a much better example of an interesting Essentials class though, as is the Berserker. Yeah, my point was that Essentials took as its core premise the same thing other editions of D&D do, namely 'you only get powers if you're a spellcaster'. Skald is very much in this vein because it has spells and powers, but its melee interaction is (like other Essentials classes) wholly confined to the basic attack and riders you append to the basic attack.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:47
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I was trying to make a Bard for a friend in the character builder once, and the skald only powers kept popping up which made me angry. Not just because they were irrelevant to what I was trying to do, but because they were so needlessly complicated compared to a normal bard. Maybe the class is amazing to play as a whole by people who are experienced 4E players, but being offered as the "simple" alternative to the o-bard in the builder was stupid.
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Sep 20, 2014 09:14
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So I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask but I can't think of anywhere else. Between this thread and the 5th edition thread I've been bitten by the urge to play 4th edition after playing briefly in collage but leaving over an overly controlling DM who wanted to tell "his story". In any case due to my current situation prevents me from easily finding a physical group (living in the middle of nowhere, and the possibility of moving several hundred miles within the next half a year.) Whats the best way to go about finding a 4th edition group over the internet. I looked at play by post on the forums but most recent thread closed submissions literally the day before I decided to look. Sorry in advance if this has been answered elsewhere and I just skipped over it like an idiot.
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Sep 20, 2014 09:57
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Arivia posted:At least for part of it, 4e had Dungeon pumping out content every month, which Pathfinder does not. It has parts of it in various ways (the back matter in Adventure Paths, monthly Player Companions, etc) but nothing like the magazines. I do it by trusting my players(Also, while I do not have every class, feat, and power memorized, I have a pretty solid general idea of what most classes and most kind of builds can do at most level, which helps, but this just comes from experience), but I know for a fact that they are people who would rather slit their own throats then cheat. I do realize that not everyone plays with people like that. goldjas fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 10:19
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What's the best "dude on a horse " build in terms of race and class? Always wanted to play a horse back charger of some kind.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:00
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Cavaliers can ride a magic dinosaur from Heaven in paragon tier. On the other hand, Lances get an extra 1[W] on mounted charge attacks, so the real answer is probably some breed of charge-monkey Fighter or Rogue.
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Sep 20, 2014 15:03
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crime fighting hog posted:What's the best "dude on a horse " build in terms of race and class? Always wanted to play a horse back charger of some kind. Warlords with Greatspears make a good showing of it, though. 
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Sep 20, 2014 16:49
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Anyone with access to the Mounted Combat feat or Mark of Handling can make full use of mounts. Goblins have a special feat for it too but I don't think it particularly offers anything special. The real thing to remember with mounts is that you can ride anything that has the mount keyword and get full access to its mount powers. Fighting a gnoll riding a giant spider? Knock him off and take it for yourself!
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Sep 20, 2014 17:27
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AXE COP posted:The real thing to remember with mounts is that you can ride anything that has the mount keyword and get full access to its mount powers. Fighting a gnoll riding a giant spider? Knock him off and take it for yourself! Just to clarify/add on to this, it doesn't have to have the mount keyword to ride it, it just has to be a larger size than you; the mount keyword indicates it has special powers which you need Mounted Combat to use. Also it has to be willing, so the spider might not cooperate (but that's what Nature is for).
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Sep 20, 2014 17:46
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As I recall, Cavalier is supposed to be a really bad class and you are better off taking certain feats and themes with just about any other class.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:07
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Cavalier is awful, but it's the only way to get the sorta neat Celestial mounts without houserules (the Summon Celestial Steed power used to be a utility with a level so Paladins could take it, but that was changed later).
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Sep 20, 2014 20:11
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:As I recall, Cavalier is supposed to be a really bad class and you are better off taking certain feats and themes with just about any other class. It is. The best way to play a mount using class is to play a Small Fey Beast Tamer, Ranger or Sentinel Druid, and ride your animal companion. But mounted combat in 4e, as with most D&D editions, is pretty lovely.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:47
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So how much should I shell out for the Dungeon Master's Kit ($ ) ?For reference, I'm looking at a "never used, only opened once" kind of secondhand deal that I have a lead on.
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Sep 23, 2014 00:44
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P.d0t posted:So how much should I shell out for the Dungeon Master's Kit ($ If it's not a mom and pop shop, never pay over Amazon's going price for used.
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Sep 23, 2014 00:59
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Anyone know a good resource for pre-generated characters? Especially ones done in a snazzy, visual format that would appeal to people who have never done a TRPG before?
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Sep 24, 2014 06:04
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Have a scroll through these and see what you think: http://dungeonsmaster.com/pre-generated-character-library/ If you've got new players, a quick cheat sheet that describes good situations to use their abilities in goes a long way.
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Sep 24, 2014 08:35
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Can multiple creatures grab the same target at once, RAW?
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Sep 24, 2014 22:38
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Yes. Each grab beyond the first adds 2 to the difficulty of the escape check, one check for all grabs, against the highest relevant defence of all grabbers
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Sep 24, 2014 22:43
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Really Pants posted:Can multiple creatures grab the same target at once, RAW? Yes, and to escape, assuming the creatures are allies, the following applies: Against Multiple Grabbers: If the creature is trying to escape and is grabbed by more than one source at once, the creature makes a single check against the highest of the grab DCs. The DC increases by 2 for each grabber beyond the first, to a maximum increase of 8.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:44
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Alright, thanks.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:46
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Has anyone tried porting 13th Age's background + icon system wholesale into 4E? Any issues that could come up? I can't really think of too many problems with it, but I was hoping someone had more experience with it.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:28
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IT BEGINS posted:Has anyone tried porting 13th Age's background + icon system wholesale into 4E? Any issues that could come up? I can't really think of too many problems with it, but I was hoping someone had more experience with it. Majuju tried it in his Set Sail game but there's too much stuff that relies on being trained in skills like utility powers and stuff. And Themes and Feats and Items and stuff that all provide various bonuses to skills.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:03
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YEAH BOO TO THAT There are a million problems, because things like grabs are tied to Athletics/Acrobatics, or jumping in combat, or how to balance DCs, or whatever else. My workaround: everyone gets at least 4 trained skills, no class lists. Trained skill checks use [highest attribute] + [1/2 level] + 5 for checks. Untrained skill checks are [second-best attribute] + [1/2 level]. Haven't had much chance to test it yet but I think it'll work OK.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:58
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I've often thought a cool use of class skill lists would be to say "you can replace your Attribute mod with +3 for any untrained class skills" but there ain't enough hours in the day to test poo poo like that.
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Sep 25, 2014 05:08
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