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Really Pants posted:Okay, so what kind of enemies will wait an hour or a day for people to come back and kill them? Well, healing doesn't get shittier - you just get more dependent on the cleric, which is As It Should Be.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:53
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greatn posted:You don't run home, you spike the doors and set a rotating watch. Its like you've never played an RPG, Jesus Christ. I'm sorry for getting bored with Rogue when I was 9, and thereby forfeiting my status as a True Role Player
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Sep 24, 2014 23:55
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greatn posted:You know how every summer blockbuster now ends in the same set piece of a city being destroyed in a giant battle between the hero and some invading force? That's all theoretically exciting but after Man of Steel, Star Trek Into Dark, Avengers, Tranformers 1-4, and countless others its a little boring and predictable. You just described every edition of DnD there, peanut. Or like, EVERY roleplaying game ever. You cannot have a fullfilling ADVENTURE (Hint, what DnD is ALL ABOUT) without conflict. Conflict usually resolves in a climax. The climax is usually a giant rear end showdown in some fashion between the "protagonists" and the "antagonists". This is the nature of telling an epic story.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:22
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greatn posted:You don't run home, you spike the doors and set a rotating watch. Its like you've never played an RPG, Jesus Christ. What sort of drat stupid dungeon inhabitants aren't going to pour oil under the door, bar it from the outside, and laugh as you suffer from smoke inhalation? It's like you've never played an RPG, Jesus Christ. Seriously, forting up in the dungeon is a Darwin Award. Especially in older versions of D&D - no one wanted to face 48 wandering monster rolls in order to grab 8 hours worth of sleep. The "day" was the entire dungeon delve - and when you ran out of spells you left for somewhere safe. Searching every 10ft of the dungeon in detail didn't happen because dungeon crawling was deliberately a race against time and resources with wandering monster checks and the fact the monsters knew the dungeons better than you did and your only real advantage was that you were on the offensive. 3.0 of course accidentally removed the balancing factors here with the Rope Trick spell.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:23
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Arivia posted:Why don't we skip that part and just have the fun part where me and my friends actually get to engage in life or death heroic combat against the dragon? I guess to be fair, if you are going in with the expectation that you are basically playing Oregon Trail, but underground and the buffalo are really goblins that shoot back, then figuring out how to secure a campground is the fun part. But that only works if the rest of the game is built around your character's having about as much depth as an Oregon Trail family. EG pick a job (with almost no in game effect), a departure time (also with almost no in game effect), and then come up with some names that will make a funny tombstone. D&D hasn't written rules that enable that game play style in a very long time, and even when it did, it did a pretty terrible job of explaining what had to happen for the game to be any drat fun. For example, it's pretty amazing how much classic D&D bullshit goes away when each player is controlling 5 interchangeable mooks.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:34
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neonchameleon posted:What sort of drat stupid dungeon inhabitants aren't going to pour oil under the door, bar it from the outside, and laugh as you suffer from smoke inhalation? It's like you've never played an RPG, Jesus Christ. It's funny you mention this because my only experience with the original Tomb of Horrors ended with our group just kind of shrugging and giving up. It was actually our introduction to ADnD as well. We had managed to continue past the fake collapse (Spoilered just in case someone hasn't played the original ToH and doesn't want anything spoiled), had no party members die or have anything untoward actually happen to them and after scouring the entire dungeon and mapping it out for a whole in-game day we just... gave up and went home. To this day I have no idea what we missed, but I KNOW there was more to it. Edit: I was also playing the Fighter of the group, and felt like a complete badass because nothing could touch me, magic or otherwise. I loved that in ADnD Fighters were basically immune to magic because their saves were off the charts. Agent Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 00:37
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greatn posted:You don't run home, you spike the doors and set a rotating watch. Its like you've never played an RPG, Jesus Christ.  Please keep going on, continue telling me that the great huge fistfuls of RPGs I have played, tabletop or not, aren't real RPGs because I never holed up in a dungeon to take a break while monsters did the retarded thing and ignored me completely. Or how I don't endlessly fellate the old days as the glory and height of gaming.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:54
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NachtSieger posted:
You are literally endlessly fellating the old days as the height of gaming, clinging to an old edition.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:58
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greatn posted:You don't run home, you spike the doors and set a rotating watch. Its like you've never played an RPG, Jesus Christ. Try that in AD&D and watch what loving happens to you.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:02
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greatn posted:You are literally endlessly fellating the old days as the height of gaming, clinging to an old edition. So using tactics that were common only for a subset of players is more authentic roleplaying than playing Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition, huh?
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Sep 25, 2014 01:02
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neonchameleon posted:Seriously, forting up in the dungeon is a Darwin Award. Especially in older versions of D&D - no one wanted to face 48 wandering monster rolls in order to grab 8 hours worth of sleep. The "day" was the entire dungeon delve - and when you ran out of spells you left for somewhere safe. Searching every 10ft of the dungeon in detail didn't happen because dungeon crawling was deliberately a race against time and resources with wandering monster checks and the fact the monsters knew the dungeons better than you did and your only real advantage was that you were on the offensive. 3.0 of course accidentally removed the balancing factors here with the Rope Trick spell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XnjK_M7-HA
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Sep 25, 2014 01:08
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greatn posted:You are literally endlessly fellating the old days as the height of gaming, clinging to an old edition. I like 4e, for sure. However, I don't fellate it, or cling to it, nor do I consider it as the height of gaming. I consider it an above average RPG with enjoyable combat. So no points for you for returning your endless grogpain to me.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:25
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The best thing about stopping to sleep for eight full loving hours in the middle of a dungeon full of hostile monsters actively seeking to murder you is how it combines not being the least bit realistic with also not being any fun whatsoever. It's no wonder grogs love the idea so much.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:28
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NachtSieger posted:I like 4e, for sure. However, I don't fellate it, or cling to it, nor do I consider it as the height of gaming. I consider it an above average RPG with enjoyable combat. So no points for you for returning your endless grogpain to me. ah yes, the old days of D&D Fourth Edition. Thank goodness no one in their right mind fellates the ancient editions prior to 4e.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:31
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Solid Jake posted:The best thing about stopping to sleep for eight full loving hours in the middle of a dungeon full of hostile monsters actively seeking to murder you is how it combines not being the least bit realistic with also not being any fun whatsoever. It's also something that was rare as hell in the editions it supposedly comes from. Like, you'd need to not to roll any ones on 16d6* every time you tried it. Or, having rolled a one, you'd need to roll something on this table (if it's a level 1 dungeon) that can't break down doors, get into the room without using a door, or even make lots of noise.  *Or, depending on circumstances, any ones or twos on 24d6. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 01:38
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C'mon, like there are any creatures in a dungeon that could knock a door off it's hinges. What kind of rube do you take me for?
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Sep 25, 2014 01:54
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Grimpond posted:ah yes, the old days of D&D Fourth Edition. Thank goodness no one in their right mind fellates the ancient editions prior to 4e. Well, he certainly wasn't referring to 3e/3.5e, and I definitely wasn't talking about pre-3e editions.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:58
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NachtSieger posted:Well, he certainly wasn't referring to 3e/3.5e, and I definitely wasn't talking about pre-3e editions. Yeah, I got that part.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:59
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Agent Boogeyman posted:It's funny you mention this because my only experience with the original Tomb of Horrors ended with our group just kind of shrugging and giving up. It was actually our introduction to ADnD as well. We had managed to continue past the fake collapse (Spoilered just in case someone hasn't played the original ToH and doesn't want anything spoiled), had no party members die or have anything untoward actually happen to them and after scouring the entire dungeon and mapping it out for a whole in-game day we just... gave up and went home. To this day I have no idea what we missed, but I KNOW there was more to it. Tomb of Horrors isn't anything like most classic old-school dungeon crawling. Or rather it's its own subgenre alongside Grimtooth's Traps. It was quite literally designed by Gary Gygax after Ernie Gygax and Rob Kunz were complaining that everything was too easy. And it was a deliberate attempt to kill both of their PCs. (The end result is it wasn't hard enough - they solved it first time because they knew how Gygax thought). It was then played as a tournament module rather than something you were meant to play normally. A better exploration-and-trap dungeon would be Whiteplume Mountain and a better general old school dungeon would be Caverns of Thracia. In short Tomb of Horrors was designed for people trying to show off. It should be played that way - or with alcohol, and a sense of fun glorying in all the ridiculous deaths. Treating it as a normal game is bad.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:13
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Those of you playing/running Hoard of the Dragon Queen, after the first night, got a question for the trip to the kobold camp. How are you meant to sneak past the ambush? I let the party climb the walls and move around it, but there's nothing in the module that I found in my quick glance about how you were actually meant to do it. Working as intended I assume?
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Sep 25, 2014 02:21
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greatn posted:You are literally endlessly fellating the old days as the height of gaming, clinging to an old edition. No one here is clinging to any old editions of D&D. Most of the people talking to you probably don't even play D&D anymore because of how familiar they are with the problems in the rules and the huge variety of other games there are to play now.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:23
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greatn posted:You are literally endlessly fellating the old days as the height of gaming, clinging to an old edition. Yeah, most of my posts in this thread are about how bad 5e seems, and I do like 4e, I guess. But I also kind of hate 4e. At least I got so frustrated with its flaws that I figured I'd be better off making an entire new game than trying to houserule it into submission. I don't think anyone here is fellating 4e at all. We all wish it had better balance for several badly-implemented classes, that it wasn't so drat bloated, that it wasn't so loving fiddly and poorly supported at high levels, etc. If I had to grade 4e, I'd give it like a C+. I'd fail 5e for being a derivative pile of poor decisions with no understanding of how its predecessors worked.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:34
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Jimbozig posted:But I also kind of hate 4e. At least I got so frustrated with its flaws that I figured I'd be better off making an entire new game than trying to houserule it into submission. 4e has become this impenetrable mess, to me. Jimbozig posted:I'd fail 5e for being a derivative pile of poor decisions with no understanding of how its predecessors worked.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:47
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I still play and love 4e, but it could sure as hell be better. It's fun, the combat is great, it's awesome to run, and my players get to be badasses. It's far and away the best D&D I've run in the 32 or whatever years I've been gaming. (Yes, I played during the "spike the door" days. Started with Moldvay Basic, then mish-mashed it with AD&D as you did in the early 80's.) 5e is maybe the 3rd or 4th best edition. But it's worse at tactical fun fiddly poo poo than 4e, and it's worse at dungeon/hexcrawl campaigning than both RC and 1e, so I don't really need it. Instead of getting the DMG and MM I'll be throwing too much money at Feng Shui 2, thankyouverymuch.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:00
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Jimbozig posted:Yeah, most of my posts in this thread are about how bad 5e seems, and I do like 4e, I guess. But I also kind of hate 4e. At least I got so frustrated with its flaws that I figured I'd be better off making an entire new game than trying to houserule it into submission. I don't think anyone here is fellating 4e at all. We all wish it had better balance for several badly-implemented classes, that it wasn't so drat bloated, that it wasn't so loving fiddly and poorly supported at high levels, etc. If I had to grade 4e, I'd give it like a C+. I'd fail 5e for being a derivative pile of poor decisions with no understanding of how its predecessors worked. 4E is personally my favorite edition of DnD. It's certainly not perfect, but it's also not terrible. It's an exciting tactics-based roleplaying game that, for once in its life, actually does what DnD is SUPPOSED to do: Be a dungeon crawler adventure game. The nice thing that 4E offers that previous editions don't is system consistency. It has flaws, but these flaws are transparent and you can go about fixing the ones that revolve around math with relative ease. My largest criticism of 4E is that it has a mountain's worth of material that is almost impossible to keep track of, with options for building characters that can span no less than three books. A close second criticism is the baked in reliance on enhancement bonuses and expertise feats, but that one at least is relatively easy to fix.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:01
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thespaceinvader posted:Thing is, for me, healing is something that happens between sessions, usually. The players go home at the end of the evening, the characters get a rest, and you reset next session. It's just too confusing otherwise, to remember what happened last time. This is fine if it works for your group but it cannot be codified into a system in a consistent way as "a session" is a nebulous thing. Some groups chip away at adventures over lunch, some meet once a week for 2 hours, some twice a week for 4 hours, some once a month for 8 hours etc. How to stop remembering what happened last time being confusing? Make notes, make sure players keep track of what powers they have used. Done.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:02
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neonchameleon posted:Tomb of Horrors isn't anything like most classic old-school dungeon crawling. Or rather it's its own subgenre alongside Grimtooth's Traps. It was quite literally designed by Gary Gygax after Ernie Gygax and Rob Kunz were complaining that everything was too easy.
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Sep 25, 2014 05:04
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If you run or play in a Next play-by-post, go here.
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Sep 25, 2014 07:55
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Mr Beens posted:This is fine if it works for your group but it cannot be codified into a system in a consistent way as "a session" is a nebulous thing. Some groups chip away at adventures over lunch, some meet once a week for 2 hours, some twice a week for 4 hours, some once a month for 8 hours etc. *shrug* true. Doesn't change the fact that healing takes as long or as short a time as you narrate it to, and can easily be limited, in any game, to not happen in any place you don't want it to happen. The point I'm trying to make is that healing between fights isn't the point of the adventure, it's the thing you do so you can get BACK to the adventure. How much time or tension it takes depends entirely on how it's described, with the exception of actually doing the maths to add X hp to your total. Healing IN fights is interesting. Healing between fights is admin.
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Sep 25, 2014 08:09
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thespaceinvader posted:*shrug* true. 100% agree with that - long rests or what ever are best paced by the story, not any arbitary barriers such as in game hours or out of game time periods. Similar we do the same with levelling - we stopped using exp as a measure of progress ages ago. We level up when the story says so - lets us gently caress about on side quests and random stuff without worrying about accidentally outstripping any planned set piece encounters that the DM has crafted ahead of time, less fiddly book keeping, keeps everyone at the same level, provides exciting reward at appropriate moments.
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Sep 25, 2014 08:22
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Mr Beens posted:Similar we do the same with levelling - we stopped using exp as a measure of progress ages ago. We level up when the story says so - lets us gently caress about on side quests and random stuff without worrying about accidentally outstripping any planned set piece encounters that the DM has crafted ahead of time, less fiddly book keeping, keeps everyone at the same level, provides exciting reward at appropriate moments. How dare you suggest stripping away the DMs ability to do some operant conditioning with XP rewards!
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Sep 25, 2014 08:43
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Does Warlock/Rogue end up working well? From skimming it a bit it looks like you could perma-hide with Greater Invisibility and Cunning Action by level 9 (and before that still be able to hide when you need to with regular Invisibility). I don't expect it to have amazing dpr or anything but the Warlock spell list looks pretty alright if worse than wizard/cleric, plus regaining spells per short rest sounds pretty rad (more so if you houserule them to be even shorter, which I've seen a lot).
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Sep 25, 2014 19:55
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D&D 5e is the best 3rd edition and the third-best edition.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:01
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Part of me still wants to play AD&D someday. But I just fire up Baldur's Gate when that urge strikes.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:10
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crime fighting hog posted:Part of me still wants to play AD&D someday. But I just fire up Baldur's Gate when that urge strikes. I love what it did for the hobby and played it back in the day, but also strongly dislike it for what it did to the hobby, and think it is the worst edition.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:56
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AD&D 1rst ed is a good example of a game that needs to be taught, because reading the books and trying to gleam how to play it just made my eyes glaze over.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:59
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crime fighting hog posted:Part of me still wants to play AD&D someday. But I just fire up Baldur's Gate when that urge strikes.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:59
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crime fighting hog posted:Part of me still wants to play AD&D someday. But I just fire up Baldur's Gate when that urge strikes. I deleted the game off my computer after reading about people arguing the merits of dual classing vs multiclassing their kensai/wizards and remembering how dumb
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Sep 25, 2014 21:21
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ImpactVector posted:I tried to play the Enhanced Edition this summer but I made the mistake of looking online for character class ideas. That was kinda silly. You can play through that game as anything you want. I've played through 1 and 2 without expansions with a bard and a fighter/mage, and went through the entirety of the Enhanced Editions with a plain-rear end ranger.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:41
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PeterWeller posted:That was kinda silly. You can play through that game as anything you want. I've played through 1 and 2 without expansions with a bard and a fighter/mage, and went through the entirety of the Enhanced Editions with a plain-rear end ranger. Hey, plain-rear end ranger was a killing machine in Baldurs gate 1! Not as good in 2 but he was the cornerstone of dps in my party through the first one. Never did try a bard run, how did that one go? Also, my group continues Hoard of the dragon queen tonight, can't wait to go around bearing it up and squishing my enemies into goo. Will have our full party too so hopefully not as many close calls as last time.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:01
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