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It shouldn't be hard at all, considering a decent bit of sprites were digitized clay models. The big issue is that no one with actual modeling talent cares enough to make any.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:04
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The only enemy I would have trouble visualizing in 3D is the pinkie, because It basically looks like a disembodied Violator (spawn) head with vestigial appendages. Every current 3D translation of that demon looks really goofy to me.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:09
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I know Doom 3 is not liked much around here (I'm not a fan either) but the pinkie was actually decent. It wasn't a 3D copy of the original but hell, better than any 3d model for source ports.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:21
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Guillermus posted:I know Doom 3 is not liked much around here (I'm not a fan either) but the pinkie was actually decent. It wasn't a 3D copy of the original but hell, better than any 3d model for source ports. It was one of the better enemies in Doom 3. Naturally, there's only about five of them in the whole drat game.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:27
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I'm actually curious why more indie games haven't gone with Doom style digitized characters. Great digital cameras are cheap these days and it wouldn't be hard to set up a little light box to get good photos of them. If you use multiple cameras or a kinect perhaps you can even extract depth information and build a normal map so the sprites could be lit and shadowed properly too.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:40
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mod sassinator posted:I'm actually curious why more indie games haven't gone with Doom style digitized characters. Great digital cameras are cheap these days and it wouldn't be hard to set up a little light box to get good photos of them. If you use multiple cameras or a kinect perhaps you can even extract depth information and build a normal map so the sprites could be lit and shadowed properly too. That's actually effort. Ironic pixels are easy and lazy.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:44
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mod sassinator posted:I'm actually curious why more indie games haven't gone with Doom style digitized characters. Great digital cameras are cheap these days and it wouldn't be hard to set up a little light box to get good photos of them. If you use multiple cameras or a kinect perhaps you can even extract depth information and build a normal map so the sprites could be lit and shadowed properly too. It's a poo poo ton of effort, while garbage stick leg sprite sheets or Q3/UT level models can be made super easily and quickly.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:10
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Shadow Hog posted:I don't understand why convincing 3D models for Doom sprites are seemingly impossible to make. I mean, I get 3D modeling is a right pain in the rear end (having dabbled with it briefly, I can't say as I really understand how to do it properly myself), but it's like, the problems with those zombieman and Cyberdemon models are kind of self-evident, surely? People with really good skill for 3d modeling do it for a living. As you yourself pointed out, its kinda tricky. There's a reason why most mods re-use as many core game assets as possible, and most total conversions either look poo poo or never come anywhere close to release. 3D work is like a thousand times more time consuming than 2D work.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:12
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"Kind of tricky." 3D modeling is incredibly difficult and time-consuming.
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Sep 25, 2014 23:12
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Geight posted:Is that still a thing? I remember hearing that they used tachyons to describe how the tech worked, then there was a limited release and some people said it actually wasn't that bad, and then it just disappeared. I played most of The Darkness II on it (got it dirt cheap, don't remember how) and the only problem I had was some really really minor input lag. Barely even noticeable.
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Sep 25, 2014 23:17
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Shadow Hog posted:I don't understand why convincing 3D models for Doom sprites are seemingly impossible to make. I mean, I get 3D modeling is a right pain in the rear end (having dabbled with it briefly, I can't say as I really understand how to do it properly myself), but it's like, the problems with those zombieman and Cyberdemon models are kind of self-evident, surely? No one really tries because people with the talent to actually make convincing 3D models for Doom sprites generally have the artistic understanding to realize that the graphical style, game engine, and level design of Doom are completely incompatible with 3D models. At least with the Duke HRP, lame as it is, enemies actually look like they make sense occupying the taller, narrower, more realistically scaled spaces of Duke 3D. Everything is oddly proportioned and out of scale in Doom and any attempt to make it full 3D just looks like garbage. Doom is basically a really violent cartoon. That said, the Doomsday player model was actually pretty good. When it was a Quake 2 model. In 1998. Zaphod42 posted:People with really good skill for 3d modeling do it for a living. As you yourself pointed out, its kinda tricky. Think of all the many, many retail-quality or better models made for Half-Life, Quake II, Q3A, and UT over the years, and the many different modelers who made them. There are a grand total of two people in the entire Doom community who can even approach Adrian Carmack's skill at spriting in 1993 (Vader and Eriance). Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 00:08
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Woolie Wool posted:No one really tries because people with the talent to actually make convincing 3D models for Doom sprites generally have the artistic understanding to realize that the graphical style, game engine, and level design of Doom are completely incompatible with 3D models. At least with the Duke HRP, lame as it is, enemies actually look like they make sense occupying the taller, narrower, more realistically scaled spaces of Duke 3D. Everything is oddly proportioned and out of scale in Doom and any attempt to make it full 3D just looks like garbage. Doom is basically a really violent cartoon. This shows a lot in the conversions where Doom 3 modders try to do the Doom 1 or 2 levels.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:14
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Even when 3D models are part of the design of a mod, like in Enjay's new wad with the Quake 2/SiN models for weapons and characters, they look like foreign elements in the Doom engine, and he used quality assets from retail games made by professionals.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:19
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Yeah, that TC or level pack of Doom 1 and 2 stuff in the Doom 3 engine looks like zero fun. Half of what makes the original Dooms so good is their pacing. If I can't feel like I'm speed skating through levels, it's not Doom. That mod looks like Really Boring Quake. Edit: I should mention that I didn't really enjoy Doom 3. I didn't beat it, though. Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 00:20
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Speaking of Doom made 3D really badly and Quake... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYttxbXK1A 
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Sep 26, 2014 00:24
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Still some drat good level design.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:26
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I thought it looked okay and then he picked up that shotgun  Are there any good Quake 2 user-made campaigns? I actually sort of like Quake 2 single-player.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:28
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Geight posted:I thought it looked okay and then he picked up that shotgun Another thing to note is that early 3D FPS games had character and weapon designs informed by the limits of early 3D rendering. The Quake II weapons are all angular and slab-sided, the Strogg incorporate big polygonal surfaces directly into their design. Contrast to Doom.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:31
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Geight posted:I thought it looked okay and then he picked up that shotgun I remember playing one but I unfortunately can't remember its name. It was highly tech themed and had a lot of blue in it. Quake II SP wasn't that bad. The weapons were much more balanced for SP than Quake 1's arsenal. I think that what was really missing were the intangibles, things that make the game feel intense and deadly but can't be boiled down to hard numbers (that and it was basically impossible to die once you had energy armor).
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Sep 26, 2014 00:34
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I do like seeing levels made in other games. There was one Blood mod that had a remake of Doom E1M1 as a secret level and it was really neat. Of course, I like to see them done well. There was a remake of several Duke3D levels in Blood that could be pretty good, but the very beginning that drop down the ventilation shaft was all hosed up and to survive the fall you had to do some messing around with jump boots and poo poo. Surely there was a better way than that.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:49
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I will always prefer Quake 1 over 2, as I love the gothic style mixed with industrial design. Am I correct in remembering id saying that the clash in styles came from basically one designer not knowing what the other was doing? Whatever the reason, I think it worked. Quake 2? Bleh. Also, did anyone else play the Q1 total conversion mod Shrak? I remember being really grossed out by it. One of the bosses was some huge fat demon, and I think you had to blow his stomach open. Edit: yep... http://youtu.be/JEt6IgA4Yi0 Edit 2: man, watching that video reminds of how I used to liken it to the first TMNT game for the NES. In that game, sometimes the regular enemies would get replaced with the weirdest, hosed up bad guys. Same game, but it's like you were fighting a completely different fight. That's Shrak, to me. Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 00:54
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Hey so I'm trying to play reelism with a friend online and I'm pretty stupid about playing with wads and sourceports, I've only done a little skulltag and otherwise done gzdoom stuff locally. What engine should we be using? We're using gzdoom because that's what it says is needed, but then how do we connect? Tried using ZDL to do standard multi, which worked, but then we're stuck because it says you can't pick the new game in multi after its already started. Do we need to enable some cheats console variable or something?
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Sep 26, 2014 01:04
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GZdoom's multiplayer is a goddamn mess and you'll have to use a server command to manually load a new map once everyone connects.
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Sep 26, 2014 01:07
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Elliotw2 posted:GZdoom's multiplayer is a goddamn mess and you'll have to use a server command to manually load a new map once everyone connects. Yeah I figured, that's why I usually use skulltag for multi. So should I ignore the website and try to load it in another engine? And if so which? I had the feeling other people were playing reelism multiplayer a lot, but is it actually just solo play? Or how do I find out what the names of the maps are?
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Sep 26, 2014 01:09
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Woolie Wool posted:Quake II SP wasn't that bad. The weapons were much more balanced for SP than Quake 1's arsenal. I think that what was really missing were the intangibles, things that make the game feel intense and deadly but can't be boiled down to hard numbers (that and it was basically impossible to die once you had energy armor). I dunno, the Super Shotgun in Quake II was pretty drat satisfying to use. It had a thundering "BOOM!" that rivaled God slamming his car door when you fired it. Oh, and the Railgun was fun to use as well. wafflemoose fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 01:10
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I figured, that's why I usually use skulltag for multi. So should I ignore the website and try to load it in another engine? And if so which? You kinda HAVE to use GZDoom. There's a Zandronum version some guy hacked together, but it disables a couple maps and is laggier than GZDoom could ever be. What you need to do is add '+map LOBBY' (without the quotes) in your launcher's command line / cvars section. This loads a lobby map that lets you choose a map and will automatically return to it when you finish a round. Set skill 0 for Normal play, skill 1 for extended, skill 2 for infinite mode, and skill 3 for Boss Practice mode.
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Sep 26, 2014 01:12
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The original Quake 3 announcer may be in Reflex.
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Sep 26, 2014 01:23
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I will always prefer Quake 1 over 2, as I love the gothic style mixed with industrial design. Am I correct in remembering id saying that the clash in styles came from basically one designer not knowing what the other was doing? Whatever the reason, I think it worked. Quake 2? Bleh. The thing with Quake is that Carmack basically wanted Doom 3, John Romero wanted to make a fantasy RPG, and Sandy Petersen wanted to make an occult/horror game. They originally went with John Romero's idea, but John Romero couldn't really make the game design work so they went with Carmack's idea instead and Sandy Petersen and John Romero basically overlaid the trappings of their ideas onto Carmack's Doom clone gameplay. I personally found it odd and confusing even when I first tried the shareware in 1996 (I couldn't play the full game for three years because I had no CD drive). The game is all over the place stylistically with no cohesion or sense of an actual setting. It was badly, badly in need of an authoritative project lead (a Tom Hall, if you will) to maintain discipline and a unified artistic direction. Quake II at least had a defined setting an a consistent theme. Here is Stroggos, these are the Strogg, here is why you're killing them. It's no thicker than any other Id game plot, but like Doom and unlike Quake 1, it makes sense. Starhawk64 posted:I dunno, the Super Shotgun in Quake II was pretty drat satisfying to use. It had a thundering "BOOM!" that rivaled God slamming his car door when you fired it. Oh, and the Railgun was fun to use as well. Yeah, but it also had the machine gun, which was reasonably powerful from a numbers standpoint but absolutely sucked in terms of feel and feedback. And having no muzzle flashes was the worst. What were they thinking?
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Sep 26, 2014 02:09
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Woolie Wool posted:Yeah, but it also had the machine gun, which was reasonably powerful from a numbers standpoint but absolutely sucked in terms of feel and feedback. And having no muzzle flashes was the worst. What were they thinking? it also had those drawn-out pain stuns that made enemies feel like bullet sponges and they barely budge even when hit point blank with the super-shotgun, stopping all movement to go ahead with the elaborate death animations. i love quake ii, but killing strogg in Enjay's gene-tech has much more positive feedback with the shorter pain frames and more horizontal thrust. watching strogg gunners fall back and slide ten feet when you blast them with the ssg is neat.
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Sep 26, 2014 02:32
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The trick with Quake 2 is to make sure you gib everything, that way the gunners don't spray extra bullets at you and also the loving flies don't spawn.
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Sep 26, 2014 02:41
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It's too bad Quake II mods are all in loving C libraries that break between versions and platforms, a mod to punch up the original Quake 2 weapons and enemies would have been nice. Make everything tougher and more visceral, add muzzleflashes and make the MG and CG feel more powerful (without necessarily making them so in reality). Also cover versions of the music with a less grating production, that poo poo gets fatiguing after a while and I'm a metalhead.
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Sep 26, 2014 02:57
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Woolie Wool posted:Also cover versions of the music with a less grating production, that poo poo gets fatiguing after a while and I'm a metalhead. When Quake 2 came out I used to listen to the CD music on the bus everyday. Quake 2 multiplayer had some really fun mods back in the day.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:32
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Sprites are so much cooler than models. This is the way Doom was meant to be played.
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Sep 26, 2014 05:55
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I don't really like Brutal Doom, but I do like Serious Sam 3 which is basically BD except a bullet hell, what does this mean? Actually a big part of why I don't like Brutal Doom is because I shoot an enemy and it plays the pain.wav 600 times in the span of 5 seconds and it hurts my ears.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:06
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That fucks up American McGee's texture choices so bad. The rock walls, gray floor, and metal trim were all similar colors and blended in together in the original texture set; here they clash horribly. And of course GRUNGE FILTERS ALL OVER EVERYTHING. Detail means things are ridiculously rough and covered in filth. E: What the hell is going on with the status bar? Is that bloom?
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Sep 26, 2014 06:06
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Yeah, Brutal Doom adds bloom and stuff.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:08
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I've played Brutal Doom before and it doesn't look like that. That's ENB Series or some other similar tool.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:10
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Yeah I've played a ton of BD and it doesn't look like that.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:12
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Elliotw2 posted:Oh, I just looked, they've "improved" some. This is actually a pretty effective design for an enemy, because as soon as I saw it I thought: burn that abomination with fire!
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Sep 26, 2014 06:48
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I also like how the player's face looks like a downsy Harrison Ford.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:51
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