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East Lake posted:
There's nothing really to dispute, brah. I know you come visit this thread about once a year, but is there any way we could round that down to no times a year? It never seems to end well.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:08
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Sure? I can not post if you want, I don't post often anyway, but I don't see what exactly it is you'd be gaining from that aside from transforming this thread into a tumblr that occasionally stops to shout down people who ask the crowd of self-described tastemakers a question. I'm not in here calling anyone a loving idiot, retard, or joking about loving people's mom's, or doing anything worse than the rest of the posting, but I can see why someone might prefer that to actual posting. My going against the grain is actually a good thing for this thread and maybe you should actually deal with the problem SoundMonkey. Posts like this are a problem. ansel autisms posted:What the gently caress were you even arguing? You didn't even post anything to dispute. You're a loving idiot. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 27, 2014 00:32
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THE PROCESS IS LOOK AT LOTS OF PHOTOS FROM ACTUAL GOOD PHOTOGRAPHERS (HINT: PROBABLY IN BOOKS NOT THE INTERNET), BUILD UP YOUR VISUAL VOCABULARY THEN GO OUT AND TAKE LOTS OF loving PHOTOS. SOMEONE ALREADY POSTED THIS EXACT loving THING: quote:“I like to look at pictures, all kinds. And all those things you absorb come out subconsciously one way or another. You’ll be taking photographs and suddenly know that you have resources from having looked at a lot of them before. There is no way you can avoid this. But this kind of subconscious influence is good, and it certainly can work for one. In fact, the more pictures you see, the better you are as a photographer.” – Robert Mapplethorpe East Lake posted:Talking about process might have the effect that it kills the illusion that a lot of the pictures in here aren't just as contextless and vapid as someone taking pictures of pretty hills. For some people it might be exactly that, so what? In fact most pictures of pretty hills probably are that shallow, which is why they are boring.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:45
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Right, that's one way to learn. Imagine you went to class and that's what your instructor got paid to tell you.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:49
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East Lake posted:My going against the grain is actually a good thing for this thread and maybe you should actually deal with the problem SoundMonkey. Thank you for the advice. East Lake posted:Posts like this are a problem. While it's true that man was not very polite, he's also, in my opinion, correct. About the first part at least, I don't know whether you're an idiot or not.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:54
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Musket and you say I'm wrong but autism and you both agree I didn't put forth any type of claim. An interesting conundrum.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:01
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East Lake posted:Right, that's one way to learn. That would depend on who the instructor is. Would you prefer to pay Bart Radfucker $999 for his rad 3 day landscape workshop or would you take advice from photographers who are actually good? They seem to say things like: quote:“A picture is what it is and I’ve never noticed that it helps to talk about them, or answer specific questions about them, much less volunteer information in words. It wouldn’t make any sense to explain them. Kind of diminishes them. People always want to know when something was taken, where it was taken, and, God knows, why it was taken. It gets really ridiculous. I mean, they’re right there, whatever they are.” – William Eggelston quote:“I enjoy the camera. Beyond that it is difficult to explain the process of photographing except by analogy: The trout streams where I flyfish are cold and clear and rich in the minerals that promote the growth of stream life. As I wade a stream I think wordlessly of where to cast the fly. Sometimes a difference of inches is the difference between catching a fish and not. When the fly I’ve cast is on the water my attention is riveted to it. I’ve found through experience that whenever—or so it seems—my attention wanders or I look away then surely a fish will rise to the fly and I will be too late setting the hook. I watch the fly calmly and attentively so that when the fish strikes—I strike. Then the line tightens, the playing of the fish begins, and time stands still.” – Stephen Shore quote:“A quote that I like very much… comes close to explaining my attitude about taking photographs…. “Chinese poetry rarely trespasses beyond the bounds of actuality… the great Chinese poets accept the world exactly as they find it in all its terms and with profound simplicity… they seldom talk about one thing in terms of another; but are able enough and sure enough as artists to make the ultimately exact terms become the beautiful terms.” – Stephen Shore Stop looking for someone to hold your hand, go out and educate yourself.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:05
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I don't think that simply looking at a particular work or body of art is any more helpful in becoming a maker of art than simply looking at Chinese characters is in learning how to communicate via Chinese, unless you want to become a simple imitator. eighthsamurai turned me on to the Primer of Visual Literacy, which is a fine introduction to visual design principles. If you want to get into the really abstract building blocks of visual art, Wucius Wong has an entire body of works that deal with those. Bruce Barnbaum's book deals with the question of process as well, but it's more tuned to the needs of the photographer. In any case, visual design has a kind of language that can be understood and extended to photography, and I don't understand the extreme hostility that some people here seem to have toward the idea that there is such a set of building blocks and that they can be consciously considered in the art-making process.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:16
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TheJeffers posted:I don't think that simply looking at a particular work or body of art is any more helpful in becoming a maker of art than simply looking at Chinese characters is in learning how to communicate via Chinese, unless you want to become a simple imitator. I'm not quite sure that analogy works. No, looking at a bunch of Chinese characters is not a good way to learn Chinese. However, if what you want to do is design your own Chinese character, looking at a bunch of other ones actually IS a really good idea. There's been a couple times where I've seen elements of someone else's work that I've looked at in my own photos, but rarely, and nobody other than me would probably even notice. I think one of the quotes above said almost exactly this except y'know, eloquent and poo poo.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:19
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Looking at paintings helps, too. There's no reason to limit yourself to photographs.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:21
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Terrible analogy and influence doesn't have to equal imitation.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:21
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deaders posted:Terrible analogy and influence doesn't have to equal imitation. Eh I can see what he meant. And yeah, I've picked up a few cool lighting techniques from looking at a bunch of Joe McNally's stuff, when I use them, it isn't imitation, it just happened to be that I first saw that technique in one of his pictures. If I also use the same backdrop, same pose, and similar subject, then yeah, I'm imitating him, but I don't think many people actually take it that far (other than the people who try to perfectly re-create every shot Ansel Adams ever took).
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Sep 27, 2014 01:24
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East Lake posted:Imagine you went to class and that's what your instructor got paid to tell you. Most of the ones worth a drat have pretty much done that, in my experience. The best someone can do is facilitate exploration, and ask the right questions of the student, or rather, give them the right questions to ask themselves.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:27
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photography
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Sep 27, 2014 01:32
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I like the quote about Chinese poetry. Achieving realism is actually fairly difficult in writing and took a long time to develop in the west. Writers had to work on their technique, study, develop new methods and even the political situation could change their techniques. You can read the first chapter in a book describing how the writing is constructed here. http://www.westmont.edu/~fisk/articles/odysseusscar.html It describes thing that you don't necessarily "just get" by reading Homer. TheJeffers posted:If you want to get into the really abstract building blocks of visual art, Wucius Wong has an entire body of works that deal with those.
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Sep 27, 2014 01:33
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BANME.sh posted:photography same
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Sep 27, 2014 01:33
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Robert Adams writes very eloquently about photography, yet even he said:quote:“Philosophy can forsake too easily the details of experience… many writers and painters have demonstrated that thinking long about what art is or ought to be ruins the power to write or paint.” – Robert Adams - See more at: http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blog/13324/20-quotes-by-photographer-robert-adams/ quote:“C.S. Lewis admitted, when he was asked to set forth his beliefs, that he never felt less sure of them than when he tried to speak of them. Photographers know this frailty. To them words are a pallid, diffuse way of describing and celebrating what matters. Their gift is to see what will be affecting as a print. Mute. ” ― Robert Adams - See more at: http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blog/13324/20-quotes-by-photographer-robert-adams/ Some grounding in theory is probably useful but you will most likely get a much better return on time spent looking at more photos and taking more photos. Perhaps you think the suggestion to look at more photos is just to flick through them? I would have thought it is obvious that part of the process of looking at photos is analyzing them at the same time - why did they take that photo, why did they frame it that way, what works about it, how does it relate to their larger body of work, how does it relate to other photography created at that time, etc?
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Sep 27, 2014 01:54
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Right but if it's analysis then there's identifiable things that can be talked about and can't be summed up by quotes about the subconscious. You might not want to read that link I posted because it's long and sort of only semi-related but the point is that it's worth reading for anyone who has a passing interest in the craft of writing and deals with fundamental problems and techniques used in storytelling. Things that aren't immediately apparent to the reader. The tldr version is that Homer wasn't interested in creating moral complexity in his characters, and the old testament was because it was necessary to create its own believable history, but the old testament was almost unconcerned with describing visuals.quote:After this opening, God gives his command, and the story itself begins: everyone knows it; it unrolls with no episodes in a few independent sentences whose syntactical connection is of the most rudimentary sort. In this atmosphere it is unthinkable that an implement, a landscape through which the travelers passed, the servingmen, or the rear end, should be described, that their origin or descent or material or appearance or usefulness should be set forth in terms of praise; they do not even admit an adjective: they are serving-men, rear end, wood, and knife, and nothing else, without an epithet; they are there to serve the end which God has commanded; what in other respects they were, are, or will be, remains in darkness. A journey is made, because God has designated the place where the sacrifice is to be performed; but we are told nothing about the journey except that it took three days, and even that we are told in a mysterious way: Abraham and his followers rose “early in the morning” and “went unto” the place of which God had told him; on the third day he lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar. That gesture is the only gesture, is indeed the only occurrence during the whole journey, of which we are told; and though its motivation lies in the fact that the place is elevated, its uniqueness still heightens the impression that the journey took place through a vacuum; it is as if, while he traveled on, Abraham had looked neither to the right nor to the left, had suppressed any sign of life in his followers and himself save only their footfalls. quote:As head of Yale’s graduate photography department since 1979, Tod Papageorge is known by his students and pretty much anybody else he comes in contact with for his Old Testament level of crabbiness. He says things like, “Your work looks like it was made by someone who has never read a book.”
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Sep 27, 2014 02:31
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Bart Radfuckers dieing wish was this nonsense would all stop and that East Lake would stop posting.
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Sep 27, 2014 02:36
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The Dorkroom › Landscapes: WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS AND NO ACTUAL loving LANDSCAPE PHOTOS.
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Sep 27, 2014 02:40
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A whole lot of good posts and one upset east lake.
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Sep 27, 2014 03:11
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East Lake posted:Right but if it's analysis then there's identifiable things that can be talked about and can't be summed up by quotes about the subconscious. You might not want to read that link I posted because it's long and sort of only semi-related but the point is that it's worth reading for anyone who has a passing interest in the craft of writing and deals with fundamental problems and techniques used in storytelling. Things that aren't immediately apparent to the reader. The tldr version is that Homer wasn't interested in creating moral complexity in his characters, and the old testament was because it was necessary to create its own believable history, but the old testament was almost unconcerned with describing visuals. quote:After this opening, God gives his command, and the story itself begins: everyone knows it; it unrolls with no episodes in a few independent sentences whose syntactical connection is of the most rudimentary sort. In this atmosphere it is unthinkable that an implement, a landscape through which the travelers passed, the servingmen, or the rear end, should be described, that their origin or descent or material or appearance or usefulness should be set forth in terms of praise; they do not even admit an adjective: they are serving-men, rear end, wood, and knife, and nothing else, without an epithet; they are there to serve the end which God has commanded; what in other respects they were, are, or will be, remains in darkness. A journey is made, because God has designated the place where the sacrifice is to be performed; but we are told nothing about the journey except that it took three days, and even that we are told in a mysterious way: Abraham and his followers rose “early in the morning” and “went unto” the place of which God had told him; on the third day he lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar. That gesture is the only gesture, is indeed the only occurrence during the whole journey, of which we are told; and though its motivation lies in the fact that the place is elevated, its uniqueness still heightens the impression that the journey took place through a vacuum; it is as if, while he traveled on, Abraham had looked neither to the right nor to the left, had suppressed any sign of life in his followers and himself save only their footfalls. I think if you want to discuss photography in these terms you might want to go and do an arts degree. Most people find this "level" of discussion unnecessary and kind of wanky and pretentious.
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Sep 27, 2014 03:18
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Landscapes: wanky and pretentious.
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Sep 27, 2014 03:29
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When I think landscape I think of The Bible
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Sep 27, 2014 03:33
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No you'd think of Homer 'cause that's his strong suit. Bible is good for character development so if you have photos with that you may be interested in the Bible. What about Hesiod. Anyone think of Hesiod? deaders posted:I think if you want to discuss photography in these terms you might want to go and do an arts degree. Most people find this "level" of discussion unnecessary and kind of wanky and pretentious. quote:He also understands, as the poet in Theogony does not, how to use contrast to heighten an effect, and how to shift quickly from one image to another, in order to manipulate his reader's reactions to make an emotional point. In the poem on winter, for example (pp. 75-7), he begins by describing the effect of Boreas, the North Wind, on the inanimate world, the pastures of Thrace, the sea, the forest, and the individual trees of the forest. Then he moves to the animate: 'The animals shudder, with tails between their legs; they find no help in furry hides, the cold goes through even the shaggy-breasted.' Now he moves on to man: 'He makes the old man bend, round shouldered as a wheel.' Now, a contrast: East Lake fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 03:46
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Read these quotes from my boy Christopher Doyle http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0236313/bio?ref_=nm_dyk_qt_sm#quotes quote:I went to France and tried to learn cinematography. Then I realized that I didn't care. So I came back to making films as I could. I think I started to know what I was doing in the middle of "Days of Being Wild" (in 1991). You can't learn how to make films. You gotta make mistakes and you have to appropriate the mistakes, and then you learn from those things. Then you have a voice. quote:I went to Taiwan to study Chinese and, as usual, I hung out in bars, and people in bars are usually musicians and artistic kinds of people. I had accumulated a little life experience so I could articulate things which were a little bit more complex than I could actually do and for some reason Edward Yang trusted me. And then we made this film ("That Day on the Beach," 1983) that won all these awards and I didn't know what I was doing. I fluked it. quote:My best film is always my next film. I couldn't make Chungking Express now, because of the way I live and drink I've forgotten how I did it. I don't believe in film school or film theory. Just try and get in there and make the bloody film, do good work and be with people you love. quote:I didn't start making films until I was 34.But that wasted youth was probably the most valuable asset for what I'm doing now. You see the world, you end up in jail three or four times, you accumulate experience. And it gives you something to say. If you don't have anything to say then you shouldn't be making films. It's nothing to do with what lens you're using.
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Sep 27, 2014 04:02
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One thing I liked about Chungking Express was that he seemed to be using telephoto lenses on the street to make it look like you were a bystander watching the events happen, but I haven't seen it in quite a while so I can't remember exactly what he was doing in each scene or if it was cohesive.
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Sep 27, 2014 04:08
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East Lake posted:One thing I liked about Chungking Express was that he seemed to be using telephoto lenses on the street to make it look like you were a bystander watching the events happen, but I haven't seen it in quite a while so I can't remember exactly what he was doing in each scene or if it was cohesive. Lol shut the gently caress up already
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Sep 27, 2014 04:14
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Sorry Dave just tryin 2 post good drinkin my coffee.    (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 27, 2014 04:28
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 Aqua by TomOlson, on Flickr Aqua Light by TomOlson, on Flickr
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Sep 27, 2014 04:42
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RangerScum posted:
These are cool, I like these.  P9220022.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr
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Sep 27, 2014 04:51
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RangerScum posted:
Mr. Despair posted:These are cool, I like these. These are like manna after drudging through the latest posts.
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Sep 27, 2014 10:43
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RangerScum posted:
Owns, owns, owns. I thought that was film at first. It's not that difficult - if you think people are being asses, then step up and answer the question. It doesn't help answer the question when you just bicker over whether people are justified in their assholeness (real or perceived). In penance for continuing the East Lake derail, here is something KEH just shared that has some awesome landscapes in it: http://www.lightinframeblog.com/100-landscape-photographers-worth-knowing/#sthash.PBVaqTNK.vskv8CFa.dpbs On a side note, Papyrus is totally a Radfucker font 
luchadornado fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 13:25
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SoundMonkey posted:...which means... MUSKET WINS and also... SHAMPOO AND 97A BOTH LOSE. Worth it.
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Sep 27, 2014 15:19
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 img_0016 by barfish, on Flickr img_0011 by barfish, on Flickr
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Sep 27, 2014 15:27
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So the idea behind my poo poo watermark was that Bart Radfucker would have zoomed in too far in Photoshop and put it along the shape of the rocks. The funny part is that I submitted my photo thinking only that I wouldn't come in last. That is how my luck works for me. EDIT:You got rid of my avatar. 
NinetySevenA fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 16:59
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NinetySevenA posted:So the idea behind my poo poo watermark was that Bart Radfucker would have zoomed in too far in Photoshop and put it along the shape of the rocks. Technically you tied for last! edit: if you find me the URL of your old avatar (on the SA servers) I'll put it back above the text. edit2: i couldn't find your old one so i went and found someone else's av of a sushi roll being sad, it should come through soon. SoundMonkey fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 22:06
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You know, again, East Lake and one other person actually understood the question that I was asking. I guess I didn't word it well enough for people to get, and when I tried to explain it I got jumped on by everyone. I absolutely did not ask "what makes a landscape work?" But I guess letting the thread turn into a shitfest, piling on me for really no good reason, that was really cool. I just asked a question and this was the result? How would this make any sort of newbie feel comfortable coming in and asking a question? How does this build any sense of community? Sure, I guess it's "entertainment" to some, but is The Dorkroom supposed to be FYAD? Because that's what this thread sure looks like now.
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Sep 28, 2014 02:26
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ZippySLC posted:You know, again, East Lake and one other person actually understood the question that I was asking. I guess I didn't word it well enough for people to get, and when I tried to explain it I got jumped on by everyone. I absolutely did not ask "what makes a landscape work?" Ask better questions next time? I feel like you have learned an important lesson here but are too upset that people made fun of you to see it. Because if you think that anything that happened here looks in any way like FYAD or one of the other deep irony forums you might need to further your forums education as well as your art one. Just be happen that you sparked the discussion that resulted in: a mod challenge, at least one probation of a bad poster, and several big red titles (including yours which is hilarious btw).
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Sep 28, 2014 02:42
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ZippySLC posted:You know, again, East Lake and one other person actually understood the question that I was asking. I guess I didn't word it well enough for people to get, and when I tried to explain it I got jumped on by everyone. I absolutely did not ask "what makes a landscape work?" If only two people understood the question, in a thread that contains numerous intelligent people (assholes, perhaps, but not stupid), you can pretty safely assume it was not a very good question. Probably the best thing for everyone's blood pressure & continued ability to post is to chalk this one up to "welp that ended poorly" and move on with our lives.
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Sep 28, 2014 03:35
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