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trucutru posted:Sorry dudes, but Slaine rocks. He's a believable loser. Not a loving robot-man, a *princess*, or some feudal dipshit with a grudge but an actual character. Yeah, he's a gently caress-up, he's conflicted, that's the point. But this is the same series with a pretty accurate portrayal of PSTD. Well, Slaine is a pretty good portrayal of a goon in "love" (because, come on, that was just some infatuation) who doesn't really know what to do and, in the end, totally freaks out. what comes of slaine's "flawss"? what have you learned? what has he learned? what lesson or introspection did you gain through watching him play out? what did he accomplish? if he accomplished nothing, what did his failure illustrate? granted, what with there being a season 2, they still have a chance to give him these things, but that brings up the question of whether or not good characterization only pays off at the ending, with nothing worthwhile during the "journey" portion of the show. it's one thing to have flaws and mean something because of it. if you don't have that meaning, then all you have is a cheap imitation of characterization. which usually sucks.
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Sep 23, 2014 10:57
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So did Slaine just no believe the count when the whole plan was simply and directly laid out for him or what?
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Sep 23, 2014 16:12
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Dr_Amazing posted:So did Slaine just no believe the count when the whole plan was simply and directly laid out for him or what? Except for the princess, the count and his men are the only people who have treated him with any kindness. Cruhteo treated him like a dog. Inaho shot him down. Everyone he thought he was fighting for hurt him. Then, after a vigorous torture session, Saazbaum saves him, and is completely straight with him. He doesn't condescend to him, beat him, or lie to him. When he's about to get shot by a Terran, one of the count's men saves him again, pointing out that, hey, you've done nothing bad to us, you're ok, as far as we're concerned you belong here, regardless of where you're from or how you feel about Mars/Earth. He was probably very emotionally conflicted- his value system was taking a major shellacking, and everything was happening very fast for him.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:23
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so again, even when slaine gets his princess killed...it's not really his fault.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:32
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In writer terms, Slaine - and the entire finale really - were poorly handled. The random guy was right in that, if they wanted his split loyalties and confusion to be a story element, they should have had it mean something rather than just a minor background thing we all had to infer. He didn't really screw up anything, he did what a guy in his situation would do, but aside from his escape from Cruhteo's castle he never showed any engaging or decisive traits. He was supposed to be a vehicle for the audience to engage with the story, which might have worked if the audience cared about anyone other than Inaho... again, failure of the writers to understand the story from the viewer perspective. The simple fact that people spent ten pages arguing not about what might come later, but about what happened on the loving screen says the writers failed to create a narrative that made sense. A good counter example would be the end of S1 Geass; at least there was a clear sequence of events and motivations. If they writers were going to insist on that bungled sequence of events, then they needed to shoehorn in a narrator or something. There is a time and proper use for ambiguity in storytelling, but this wasn't it.
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Sep 23, 2014 21:20
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Banagher from Gundam Unicorn was a dude with a good deal of conflicted loyalties, but they were going for a ~grand tour of the solar system~ story there.
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Sep 23, 2014 23:55
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nehezir posted:so again, even when slaine gets his princess killed...it's not really his fault. See, I wonder if that's actually where they're going with this. Up until this point, it's been true that everything was out of his control. But this falls squarely on his shoulders, so the question is whether or not he evades responsibility. I hope Saazbaum survived, because he's the only character I can see getting a chance to call Slaine on his mistake. Basically, I think the writers either intend for Slaine to be a colossal fuckup who always claims that nothing is his fault because clearly it was all out of his control, or a person who takes responsibility for his mistakes and tries to fix things. I hope its the second one, because I have no idea how that would play out and I like surprises.
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Sep 24, 2014 06:09
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nehezir posted:so again, even when slaine gets his princess killed...it's not really his fault. Seeing him become an increasingly broken guy but without the caveat of "yeah but he deserves what he's getting so gently caress him" is what makes him interesting to me. It doesn't feel poorly done to me, because I feel like I can fairly well see the effects that all these events have had on him (I haven't rewatched the series to make sure that this wasn't just fan fiction made up in my head or something, so maybe it was secretly poorly done unknown to me), but if your metric for "is this a good character" is "is there a greater message in this?" then I guess I can see why you wouldn't be too fond of him. But me, I just like watching characters interact with each other/react to events in fiction, and if they can do so believably or amusingly then that's all I need. And Slaine doesn't feel like an unbelievable character to me.
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Sep 24, 2014 07:30
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I think that could work if he actually interacted with or reacted to more than 2 major named characters(and pillbug man). even his interaction with the princess is primarily in the earliest, least important parts of the show, or flashbacks. and I hate flashbacks for expanding upon characters. flashbacks exist in an isolated bubble with no fluid interaction between characters and no real progress. they're basically just vehicles for exposition dumps and revelations for information that typically is supposed to make you change how you view a character. rarely does it work as well as it needs to. the method behind slaine isn't inherently bad(it is still a technique afterall), but unless season 2 does one hell of a job turning his character's direction around, I don't think I'm ever going to have anything more than hate for him. at least it's not hopeless.
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Sep 24, 2014 12:41
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Dr_Amazing posted:So did Slaine just no believe the count when the whole plan was simply and directly laid out for him or what? FWIW, Slaine during the entire dinner scene knows the count is dead serious about his whole revenge plan on the Vers Empire. Yet he sees the count about to be defeated (maybe even killed?) by Orange he just rushes over even though he's too far away to be much of a help. I think Slaine is more interested in throwing the odds in the count's favor that straight up fighting Orange and saving him. TBH, Slaine seems to be like the guy who prefers to believe if he finds the right words or reasons he can talk anyone out of a bad move even if in reality it's nearly impossible. Selyum's getting shot is not his fault because Slaine had no idea wtf the princess is even doing in the same room. It's all just one long horrible coincidence how she is in the wrong place at the wrong time by the wrong person. @Inaho's love (?): I know we got the traditional anime montage sequence but apart from his sister making an offhand joke-y comment is there anything to support this other than the Creators Said So? It feels like a poor attempt to get the audience to empathise with a blank MC other than well just being the Deus Ex Machina of mecha battles. I can kinda get why Slaine cares for the princess but really? 
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Sep 24, 2014 18:54
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I was kinda hoping the flash back of Inaho's would just be a series of food sales and scrambled egg breakfasts. Thats about as much quirk as there was to him.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:05
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I'm pretty on the fence about whether or not I think they're in love or just really care for each other as friends.
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Sep 24, 2014 21:50
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I just watched the last episode and while I liked the show quite a bit before this, now I'm not so sure anymore. I like the idea of this ending, with everything suddenly turning to poo poo, but the execution wasn't very good because the characters weren't developed too well. Why am I supposed to care about Inaho getting shot again? Sure, him making all those giant robots look like ridiculous toys was cool but other than that I find him absolutely boring. Same with the princess who is always blaming herself for the war when there's really no reason and it really started to annoy me. After all it's been Saazbaum's fault all along. Saazbaum by the way is much more interesting and he's really the only I'm rooting for at this point. Slaine had all my sympathies before this episode but he lost it all with his dumb decision to protect Saazbaum. What did he think Saazbaum was going to do to the princess when he won the battle? To sum it up: This was fun to watch but the characterization is terrible. When the only guy you can root for is the supposed villain, something is seriously wrong.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:39
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KonvexKonkav posted:I just watched the last episode and while I liked the show quite a bit before this, now I'm not so sure anymore. I like the idea of this ending, with everything suddenly turning to poo poo, but the execution wasn't very good because the characters weren't developed too well. Why am I supposed to care about Inaho getting shot again? Sure, him making all those giant robots look like ridiculous toys was cool but other than that I find him absolutely boring. Same with the princess who is always blaming herself for the war when there's really no reason and it really started to annoy me. After all it's been Saazbaum's fault all along. Saazbaum by the way is much more interesting and he's really the only I'm rooting for at this point. Slaine had all my sympathies before this episode but he lost it all with his dumb decision to protect Saazbaum. What did he think Saazbaum was going to do to the princess when he won the battle? Saazbaum is loving amazing, though, so I'm ok with it. The Princess never did grow beyond "it's all my fault, regardless of all the evidence to the contrary." You're absolutely right, and that was annoying as hell. Inaho did have some characterization, but it was very subtle.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:40
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she's just now doing something about it, so I have to agree. if this happened with maybe one or two more episodes of wiggle room for development, it could have fixed a lot of things.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:09
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It matters that the villain said something you'd expect a hero to say, but it's so cryptic that it's hard to tell how he intends to do so. One thing that annoyed the hell of me with Slaine is that he has a bad habit of teleporting all over the place. Like there's no real continuity about how he gets from A to B to C and so on.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:17
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you mean like his offscreen capture by cruhteo? or his offscreen transporation to sauz's landing castle? or his offscreen trip to really...anywhere?
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Sep 25, 2014 02:51
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Talkc posted:I was kinda hoping the flash back of Inaho's would just be a series of food sales and scrambled egg breakfasts. Thats about as much quirk as there was to him. Potential winner of Best series of Summer 2014. 10/10. Where are Inaho's parents actually? Does he live w/his sister only? Phobophilia posted:One thing that annoyed the hell of me with Slaine is that he has a bad habit of teleporting all over the place. Like there's no real continuity about how he gets from A to B to C and so on. Hmm---I didn't notice it but Slaine does go on an extensive tour of Earth and Mars when he's not suffering in some way or form. After being rescued Slaine starts to go to where the Princess is last seen on the base? For someone who is so disliked on Vers he sure has quite a lot of freedom of movement.
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Sep 25, 2014 05:32
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Alder posted:Potential winner of Best series of Summer 2014. 10/10. Where are Inaho's parents actually? Does he live w/his sister only? Saazbaum and his men are completely cool with Slaine- they let him go to do as he pleased. When he took the sky carrier, the mechanic was not alarmed that he was taking it, but that he was taking it out unarmed. It's the Loyalist Vers who are down on Slaine.
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Sep 25, 2014 05:39
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Alder posted:Potential winner of Best series of Summer 2014. 10/10. Where are Inaho's parents actually? Does he live w/his sister only? Moon rocks fell, parents died. I don't actually know, just seems the most likely candidate.
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Sep 25, 2014 07:56
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Mini teaser preview trailer thing for s2 out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWX0690CUO4 Rough translation of the lines: Marito: Chrysdale (?) Leader, launching! Inko: Hope [we/he/someone] can return home alive. Rayet: I don't have time to die. Yuki: You know, I joined the military because I wanted to protect you, and the world you live in. Magbaredge: Calling all ships - as per directive, Earth landing sequence will now commence.
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Sep 25, 2014 14:48
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darkgray posted:Yuki: You know, I joined the military because I wanted to protect you, and the world you live in. This only makes sense if she's saying it to Inaho, so two possibilities here: 1. Inaho is alive and Yuki's talking to him; (1b. Inaho is alive but in a coma, and Yuki's talking to him at his bedside;) 2. Inaho's dead, and Yuki's talking to his gravestone or something.
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Sep 25, 2014 14:59
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darkgray posted:Mini teaser preview trailer thing for s2 out: It's Clydesdale. Terran Kataphrakt squads are named after horses.
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Sep 25, 2014 15:04
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Was it ever explained how Slaine started his robot?
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Sep 26, 2014 04:57
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Brutakas posted:Was it ever explained how Slaine started his robot? My hunch is that the process of "granting aldnoah to knights" involves a kiss, and that the princess either on purpose or inadvertently gave it to him years ago and he/they never knew. See: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3648722&userid=141646#post435163386
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Sep 26, 2014 05:10
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If Inaho is alive, it was the princess. If he's dead, it was his dad. Schrodinger's explanation!
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Sep 26, 2014 05:13
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"Inaho is alive but it was his dad" is still a valid outcome
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Sep 26, 2014 08:20
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It occurs to me that Slaine has murdered or was present for the murder of literally every character he interacts with even slightly.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:19
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I like Slaine's name. It is fitting.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:25
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paragon1 posted:It occurs to me that Slaine has murdered or was present for the murder of literally every character he interacts with even slightly. So he's like the opposite of a good luck charm? a bad luck charm? or Death Flag Charm? 
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Sep 26, 2014 22:28
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paragon1 posted:It occurs to me that Slaine has murdered or was present for the murder of literally every character he interacts with even slightly. It took me a solid minute to remember that he talked to the king of Vers, and he's not dead yet
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Sep 27, 2014 09:34
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Yet. 
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Sep 27, 2014 09:36
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Brutakas posted:Was it ever explained how Slaine started his robot? It could also be that Cruhteo is still alive, if Saazbaum wasn't very thorough with destroying Cruhteo's castle. Someone could have found him resuscitated him, though I think it's not very likely. It did happen in the show before though. I personally hope he's dead for good, as that's one enemy less for Saazbaum. It would rule if the end is Saazbaum becoming a communist dictator ruling over Earth and Mars.
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Sep 27, 2014 11:23
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Slaine's dad worked with Saazbaum and studied aldnoah, so he probably discovered the secret to granting activation rights and gave those to his son. That seems most likely.
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Sep 27, 2014 15:16
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KasaiAisu posted:It took me a solid minute to remember that he talked to the king of Vers, and he's not dead yet The king was back on mars at the time. It may be a function of proximity.
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Sep 27, 2014 16:56
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What if the King didn't die because he was already dead!!!????!!!!!?????!!!!! Holographic projections, yo?
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Sep 27, 2014 18:25
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Spoilers: Rayregalia Vers Rayvers is actually will.i.am
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Sep 28, 2014 02:50
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Einander posted:I don't get why people would think Inaho was ever an autistic robot after that last episode. He didn't develop emotions, he's had them all along. This is a Gatchaman Crowds-style "Hajime is not a lolrandom goofball, she's a genius with communication issues" situation, where the writers created a deliberately difficult-to-understand protagonist with the intent of gradually peeling back the layers. It's character development by proxy, where the change is in audience understanding of the character rather than the character. Couldn't have said this any better. Inaho as a character was heavily underpinned by writing him as an underdog (inferior mechs) which makes you want to cheer for him to begin with. He ends up winning because of his ingenuity, and at least for the first half of the show, with the help of his friends (did you really not cheer when rear end in a top hat-sword-mech's face got smashed by Inko operating the shipping crane?). In every fight they had with a Vers mech, with the exception of rear end in a top hat-sword-mech round 2 and the Saazbaum fight, Inaho is backed up by his squad. It's easy to call him an autistic robot or deus ex machina, but better descriptors would be logical and stoic. His flaws are few and unobvious, and not fleshed out by the writing, but they're there if you look for them. Slain on the other hand is a lovely character that has and will continue to gently caress up everything into s2. His characterization dissolves into pretty much nothing by the end of the show, when my expectation prior to the finale was that he would continue to act in favor of the one thing he (should have) still believed in: the princess. Instead the conviction he showed through Cruhteo's interrogation disappeared in a matter of one ep over Saazbaum's dinner speech. When he lost that, he became nothing but a vessel for double protag homicide. You want to see an actual gray character strongly driven by personal beliefs and selfish motivations? See Garak from Deep Space 9.
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Sep 28, 2014 11:50
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Somewhere deep in my dark anime heart, I'm hoping that the writers assumed everyone would love Slaine and are now busily rewriting the second cours and turning it into an incomprehensible crazy-train. With reviving space-vampires, obviously.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:48
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Grim Up North posted:Somewhere deep in my dark anime heart, I'm hoping that the writers assumed everyone would love Slaine and are now busily rewriting the second cours and turning it into an incomprehensible crazy-train. With reviving space-vampires, obviously. IIRC Slaine ranks fairly high if pixiv fanart numbers mean anything and I see a lot of people liking him earlier before the ending (yes including me). BTW: If Inaho does make a great return somehow I'd like the writers to make *some* attempt at background story for him. How about a entire episode dedicated to his recovery and thoughts?
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Sep 29, 2014 04:30
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