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Cernunnos posted:
No I'm not missing the point. The point was to have a non-rotating format where they could reprint all cards legal in it. Nothing more. Saying that its intent was any more than that is silly. The original announcement for the format was simply this statement: "... many of you have called for a non-rotating format that doesn't have the card availability problems of Legacy. We propose Modern as that format." There was none of this 'they have to have separate identities' nonsense, there was just the goal to have a format where card availability concerns could be addressed. And I do just go play Legacy. And Vintage. Multiple times a week.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:36
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You are literally completely missing the point of Modern as a format.
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L0cke17 posted:No I'm not missing the point. The point was to have a non-rotating format where they could reprint all cards legal in it. Nothing more. Saying that its intent was any more than that is silly. The original announcement for the format was simply this statement: "... many of you have called for a non-rotating format that doesn't have the card availability problems of Legacy. We propose Modern as that format." There was none of this 'they have to have separate identities' nonsense, there was just the goal to have a format where card availability concerns could be addressed. No, you are missing the point. Your argument is nonsensical since none of the cards you just mentioned are on the Reserved List.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:36
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Angry Grimace posted:No, you are missing the point. Your argument is nonsensical since none of the cards you just mentioned are on the Reserved List. What? I'm saying that modern would be better if they reprinted some cards that currently aren't on the reserve list for use in it. That was my original point.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:40
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L0cke17 posted:What? I'm saying that modern would be better if they reprinted some cards that currently aren't on the reserve list for use in it. That was my original point. You just said was that Modern was created to avoid card availability problems and nothing more. There's literally nothing preventing Wizards from reprinting Force of Will, Daze and Wasteland either in Standard or in a supplemental set like Conspiracy. As for the point that it would be better if it had those cards in it, I imagine the vast majority of people playing Modern would likely disagree with you because free counters are bullshit. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 00:43
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Angry Grimace posted:You just said was that Modern was created to avoid card availability problems and nothing more. There's literally nothing preventing Wizards from reprinting Force of Will, Daze and Wasteland either in Standard or in a supplemental set like Conspiracy. Exactly! You just summarized my point very well! Which is that there is no reason they can't print those cards except that they have some sort of stick up their asses about efficient LD and countermagic. And it would definitely be better off with them, because then they can remove the fun cards off the banned list and make a format where you get to do actually powerful things instead of just playing 3-color goodstuff decks and not get punished for not interacting with your opponent.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:46
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L0cke17 posted:Exactly! You just summarized my point very well! Which is that there is no reason they can't print those cards except that they have some sort of stick up their asses about efficient LD and countermagic. And it would definitely be better off with them, because then they can remove the fun cards off the banned list and make a format where you get to do actually powerful things instead of just playing 3-color goodstuff decks and not get punished for not interacting with your opponent. I mean, no, that wasn't your point, but I suppose there's nothing preventing you from saying that it was.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:49
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Seriously if you already play Legacy I don't see why you care that Modern isn't Legacy. Just go play Legacy and ignore Modern if you don't like it. There's nothing forcing you to play the format.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:53
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I'm considering whether to get a Khans box (the 36 pack one) as a birthday present to myself in the hope of some fetchlands or Planeswalkers for trading/selling, or trying to assemble a Sultai Delver decklist like this one. Opinions? Having played a bit more with Delve I really like the mechanic and this deck looks up my alley, but the problem is of course the cost of some of the main pieces like Courser, Caryatid, Thoughtseize, Hero's Downfall and of course Polluted Delta. Obviously that decklist is only a jumping off point but those seem to be the big spends that bring it together, and would probably be assembled from now until Christmas considering wages and whatnot. Is Standard volatile enough that by the time I get this deck, the set will be figured out and it'll be potentially crap? On the other hand, getting a box would mean I could do a limited dealio with my friends for the cracking process, and hopefully have a blast while potentially opening some decent stuff to sell/trade and also fill out my sparse commons/uncommons. EDIT: I also forgot to give an overall thanks to thread for the to-the-point answers to my probably inane questions, and how accommodating everyone seems to be towards newbies getting into the game. Big props to neetengie also for responding fairly quickly whenever and being particularly helpful! The Wicked Wall fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 00:56
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The Wicked Wall posted:I'm considering whether to get a Khans box (the 36 pack one) as a birthday present to myself in the hope of some fetchlands or Planeswalkers for trading/selling, or trying to assemble a Sultai Delver decklist like this one. Opinions? Buying sealed product is a bad idea unless you just like the visceral thrill of gambling or you're going to use them for drafting/limited. The idea that you just need some cards to fill out your collection is actually a terrible idea disguised as a good one. You'll just end up with a billion pieces of cardboard you don't need or want (since most commons are unplayable in anything other than limited). There's only so many uncommons that are actually good in any set, and those are typically obvious (e.g. Monastery Swiftspear, Murderous Cut) and you can just buy those the same way you buy rares. Just buy singles for any card you need. (FYI "Delver" is something different than "Delve." Yeah I know.) Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 00:58
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Buying with the intent to open certain cards or some amount of value is a terribad idea. Buying a box to run a draft with buddies is a fine, maybe even great idea. Do not, DO NOT expect to get value out of a box.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:00
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It's possible that specific deck becomes crap, but all the rares are powerful and versatile enough that I would be surprised if they didn't see play for the entire lifetime of this Standard. That said, I think the answer on which to do depends on if you'd rather draft or sealed or whatever with some friends or assemble a Standard deck.
Elyv fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 01:01
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I felt a burning desire to buy a booster box until I went to one of those sealed generator sites and just punched "36" into the number of packs to open.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:02
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The Wicked Wall posted:I'm considering whether to get a Khans box (the 36 pack one) as a birthday present to myself in the hope of some fetchlands or Planeswalkers for trading/selling, or trying to assemble a Sultai Delver decklist like this one. Opinions? Saving up for a deck is fine, Standard barely rotated so if you want just look at events like GPs, StarCityGame Opens, and the upcoming Pro Tour for ideas on what you want to build, since everyone else will be watching too.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:03
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The Wicked Wall posted:On the other hand, getting a box would mean I could do a limited dealio with my friends for the cracking process, and hopefully have a blast while potentially opening some decent stuff to sell/trade and also fill out my sparse commons/uncommons. Do this and make your friends buy pizza and beer for the entry cost 
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Sep 30, 2014 01:10
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Angry Grimace posted:You're confused if you actually believe Modern players want Daze, Stifle, Wasteland and Force of Will in the format. I'm a modern player and I do want those cards in the format sooo
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Sep 30, 2014 01:20
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Cernunnos posted:Seriously if you already play Legacy I don't see why you care that Modern isn't Legacy. Legacy is a format destined to be perpetually gimped due to decisions made 20 years ago. There's a finite limit to how much that format can grow, and the prices on certain cards are absolutely pants-on-head retarded as a result of those decisions.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:22
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TheKingofSprings posted:I'm a modern player and I do want those cards in the format sooo Well that piece of anecdotal evidence sure cleared everything up.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:28
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You know what has kept the legacy format going for this long? counterfeits
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Sep 30, 2014 01:29
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean, no, that wasn't your point, but I suppose there's nothing preventing you from saying that it was. The first thing I said was that they didn't need to ban a bad combo deck that could win on turn 2/3 because they had the capacity to reprint good magic cards that could answer it if they were in the format and make the format better as a whole. That is the point that spawned this whole discussion.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:34
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Pete Zah posted:I felt a burning desire to buy a booster box until I went to one of those sealed generator sites and just punched "36" into the number of packs to open. Man I just tried this and I would have made out like a loving bandit. 4 foil rares, foil treasure cruise, foil POLLUTED DELTA, i made so much imaginary dollars just now. Screw waiting to draft my box im tearing it open right the hell now
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Sep 30, 2014 01:35
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Angry Grimace posted:Well that piece of anecdotal evidence sure cleared everything up. Do you really think, if the card availability problem was non-existent and people could buy legacy poo poo at the price of modern poo poo legacy and modern would be at their respective levels of popularity?
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Sep 30, 2014 01:35
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TheKingofSprings posted:I'm a modern player and I do want those cards in the format sooo I too wish to have my Wurmcoils played on tron mana and backed by countermagic to get completely stuffed by FoW, Daze. That sounds very fun and would totally not destroy Tron as a deck.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:42
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I Love You! posted:Man I just tried this and I would have made out like a loving bandit. 4 foil rares, foil treasure cruise, foil POLLUTED DELTA, i made so much imaginary dollars just now. Screw waiting to draft my box im tearing it open right the hell now Foil Treasure Cruise's price is insane. It's also unsustainable yes? Buy a case of Khans and just sit on them until like a year or 2 after rotation then throw them the individual boxes up on Ebay for like $400 each or something. Someone will buy them. As a separate topic what are the odds that a pack has a foil? From my Drafting and Sealed games it seems like ~1/5 but I'm not sure. I'm trying to figure out the odds of pulling any particular Foil from a pack. if it is ~1/5 the odds are ~1/1500.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:44
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Count Bleck posted:I too wish to have my Wurmcoils played on tron mana and backed by countermagic to get completely stuffed by FoW, Daze. Or the presence of wasteland would let you run the much better 16 post because that being banned with a ready answer would be dumb? E: or, y'know, sideboard the artifact that makes counterspells cost an extra 2 like Tron already does or just not give a poo poo and drop another threat because FoW is kind of rear end against fair decks and always has been TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 01:45
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So this is kind of interesting, I've been opening up a bunch of simulated boxes of Khans and on average the cards are worth significantly more than the box, even assuming selling on ebay. I'm seriously considering opening up my box I won from prerelease weekend at some point rather than waiting around to EVENTUALLY draft (don't buy boxes for cards new people!!!!)
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Sep 30, 2014 01:46
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TheKingofSprings posted:Or the presence of wasteland would let you run the much better 16 post because that being banned with a ready answer would be dumb? Ah yes the age old question of why play that lovely deck when you can play this much better deck.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:47
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Count Bleck posted:Ah yes the age old question of why play that lovely deck when you can play this much better deck. There's not much difference man, tron would swap out for 16post in a heartbeat. E: they are cards that do the same thing, just one option is significantly better and probably should be legal
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Sep 30, 2014 01:51
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Print another Locus and let's get this bitch up to 20 post. Edit: Legitimately confused about the number of posts available.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:54
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Snacksmaniac posted:Print another Locus and let's get this bitch up to 20 post. Edit: Legitimately confused about the number of posts available. Vesuva, Thespians, Cloud, and Glimmer should make 16 total.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:56
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I Love You! posted:So this is kind of interesting, I've been opening up a bunch of simulated boxes of Khans and on average the cards are worth significantly more than the box, even assuming selling on ebay. I'm seriously considering opening up my box I won from prerelease weekend at some point rather than waiting around to EVENTUALLY draft (don't buy boxes for cards new people!!!!) This is why the fetches will go down in price. The EV of a box is higher than the price of a box so it makes economic sense to grab a crate full and open packs all day. This will drive the price down until it no longer makes sense.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:56
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Count Bleck posted:Ah yes the age old question of why play that lovely deck when you can play this much better deck. That's pretty much the entirety of competitive Magic though. I'm not gonna take one side or another about the wisdom of including legacy staples in Modern, but "it would kill cool decks" doesn't seem like much of an argument. If cool decks take primacy over all else, we'd be playing some weird format with like... Astral Slide, D&T, and Heartless Summoning.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:56
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Snacksmaniac posted:Print another Locus and let's get this bitch up to 20 post. Edit: Legitimately confused about the number of posts available. 12. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Glimmerpost, 4 Vesuva. I don't know where he's getting 16 from.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:56
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Wind Zendikon + Followed Footsteps = NpostCernunnos posted:12. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Glimmerpost, 4 Vesuva. Thespian's Stage.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:57
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Nehru the Damaja posted:That's pretty much the entirety of competitive Magic though. I'm not gonna take one side or another about the wisdom of including legacy staples in Modern, but "it would kill cool decks" doesn't seem like much of an argument. If cool decks take primacy over all else, we'd be playing some weird format with like... Astral Slide, D&T, and Heartless Summoning. They should really reprint Slide and Lightning Rift in Modern. At LEAST give us the cycling lands so we can Loam 'em back.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:57
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NovemberMike posted:This is why the fetches will go down in price. The EV of a box is higher than the price of a box so it makes economic sense to grab a crate full and open packs all day. This will drive the price down until it no longer makes sense. Yeah, it's definitely +ev right now by a pretty decent margin, ESPECIALLY if you can sell at store prices (even discount cheap online store prices). Ignoring most bin rares and even ignoring all uncommons that are actually worth something like charms I'm seeing an average of about 125-150 per box of money rares and foils at prices you could probably expect to sell at. There are some duds, and also some boxes worth 200+, but most are around the 120ish range so the odds of breaking even or better on a given box are good. Pretty neat, gooooooo saclands
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Sep 30, 2014 01:59
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Force of Will would make half the decks in modern unplayable, off the top of my head Tron, Scapeshift, Living End, UR Twin, and any deck that needs one critical spell to resolve will be gone overnight. The interesting thing is that it would be fine in Standard, since the card disadvantage matters more and almost all Standard decks can recover from having a spell countered.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:00
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Attorney at Funk posted:They should really reprint Slide and Lightning Rift in Modern. At LEAST give us the cycling lands so we can Loam 'em back. I would love for this but I don't think it's hugely likely at present because of how powerful the interaction between cycle lands and loam is.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:02
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Konstantin posted:Force of Will would make half the decks in modern unplayable, off the top of my head Tron, Scapeshift, Living End, UR Twin, and any deck that needs one critical spell to resolve will be gone overnight. The interesting thing is that it would be fine in Standard, since the card disadvantage matters more and almost all Standard decks can recover from having a spell countered. Yes, the deck you mentioned that is alive under a different name in Legacy and the three decks that would love to jam Force into their 75 will be killed off by Force. Combo is dead and buried in legacy, no resolving ad nauseums there.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:04
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The one thing I might not like about actually playing Legacy is that I can see it being rather unappealing watching my opponent rub ponders and brainstorms all over their dick, even if the cards aren't really oppressive by the numbers where the format is concerned. Stuff like Daze and FoW would probably be fine. I think Modern might actually be more fun (for non-blue players) if FoW was legal and Cryptic was not. What people said about it being rear end against fair decks isn't that much of an exaggeration, even if it might not feel that way when your big timmy play gets forced. e: unless we are also assuming that Wasteland is reprinted, I'd think Tron would cum bullets at the thought of a blue player going down card advantage to counter a spell for which you can uncounterably tutor up a replacement on your next turn using Eye of Ugin.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:06
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I have a foil treasure cruise but I have the bizarre feeling if I try to trade it at my game store I'll get laughed out as it's clearly an unsustainable spike.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:07
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