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Kerzoro posted:If you are asking for MODULAR stuff... um... well, the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut can be put together so that you can rotate their weapons, open their doors, move their heads... Wait, what? In what universe is a Gunpla not a toy but a Warhammer mini is? By virtue of being flexible, snap-fit, and colored out of the box, kids can put together (or customize) a cool action figure in addition to hobbyists making display pieces out of them. In fact, there are entire lines of Gunpla designed for the explicit purpose of being toys that you take with you, some of which even have chips that interact with arcade machines. Not to mention that Warhammer minis are way more fragile both structurally and in materials. The problem described in this post: Chill la Chill posted:Have they actually even progressed in the plastics department either? I was dumb and bought the giant tau robot cuz it was on sale but since regretted it but at least picked up painting minis (x-wing and infinity in this case cuz they are far superior games) again. It was no better than the poo poo they had a decade ago. Meanwhile, my gundam real grade released 2 years ago has incredible paneling detail and moving parts that GW can't even bother putting on their large robots and baby carriers. And no flash. The Gorkanaut/Morkanaut is a phenomenal example of GW's bad art direction, too, seeing as how the robot depicted would be completely incapable of achieving locomotion. I'm reminded of the Centurions with the plates bolted on their crotches that prevent their legs from moving in front of them, forcing the marines to an eternity of waddling like the Toy Story squeeze toy aliens. Outside of the 3 or 4 hinges the kit provides, real toy functionality would be impossible.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:13
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... and they are much easier to put back together in case they fall apart, unlike resin and metal.
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Broken Loose posted:The Gorkanaut/Morkanaut is a phenomenal example of GW's bad art direction, too, seeing as how the robot depicted would be completely incapable of achieving locomotion. I'm reminded of the Centurions with the plates bolted on their crotches that prevent their legs from moving in front of them, forcing the marines to an eternity of waddling like the Toy Story squeeze toy aliens. Outside of the 3 or 4 hinges the kit provides, real toy functionality would be impossible. On the other hand since it's intended as a stationary model, real toy functionality doesn't matter, also its Orkz so "this can't possibly work" is kind of the point.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:35
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Literally The Worst posted:On the other hand since it's intended as a stationary model, real toy functionality doesn't matter, also its Orkz so "this can't possibly work" is kind of the point. "The fiction, which we write, says that these machines aren't supposed to work, so that's why they don't in real life"
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Oct 1, 2014 07:37
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Literally The Worst posted:On the other hand since it's intended as a stationary model, real toy functionality doesn't matter, also its Orkz so "this can't possibly work" is kind of the point. Actually one of the the main conceits of Ork technology is that it does work (poorly, oftentimes), but that the Imperium is so dead set in their ways that they refuse to believe or understand it.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:40
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S.J. posted:Actually one of the the main conceits of Ork technology is that it does work (poorly, oftentimes), but that the Imperium is so dead set in their ways that they refuse to believe or understand it. Yes, because being able to make a warp jump with a decomissionned vessel lacking both a fuel tank and a gellar field is the result of, not the oft-noted latent ork psyker abilities, but the orks knowing one neat trick to increase technological synergy the Emperor doesn't want you to know.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:55
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mr. stefan posted:Yes, because being able to make a warp jump with a decomissionned vessel lacking both a fuel tank and a gellar field is the result of, not the oft-noted latent ork psyker abilities, but the orks knowing one neat trick to increase technological synergy the Emperor doesn't want you to know. I guess you can ignore 20 years of fluff if you want  Is your example actually from something? Orks fly around in Space Hulks man, it's well established that Daemons either ignore them because they're Orks, or Orks have no problem fighting them and dying in the warp and having a good time regardless.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:56
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NTRabbit posted:"The fiction, which we write, says that these machines aren't supposed to work, so that's why they don't in real life" I'm not even defending GW, this is just a really dumb nitpick. S.J. posted:I guess you can ignore 20 years of fluff if you want Red ones literally go faster. The whole Ork psychic gestalt thing is a a thing.
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Oct 1, 2014 08:24
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Oh hey is this where we argue about the fluff behind ork technology instead of why GW didn't make a better model in the first place? Well then I'd say that the latest models are pretty consistent in their design aesthetics... something about how they are being done feels consistent to me... maybe its the proportions or where they put the details? Lots of detail too. That said, I actually like less and less of them. Why? Because the designs are getting unbelievably retarded. The autocannons on the Taurox, for one example, or the wolf sled as another. 40k isn't a serious game or anything, but the models are beginning to look entirely like toys since nobody is putting thought into how they work. I realize I'm literally painting toy models and sliding them around a table, but I'd like them to be somewhat grounded in reality instead of lol its a viking ship in space I can get that already with my micro machines which cost less and are somehow more realistic.
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Oct 1, 2014 08:30
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Literally The Worst posted:Red ones literally go faster. The whole Ork psychic gestalt thing is a a thing. You're about to start an argument with someone who played Orks for a decade and aggressively absorbed every piece of fluff about them that they could, but okay. Everyone knows the gestalt psyche is a thing, but the concept has always been originally based on a single small excerpt, written in the first person from an extraordinarily unreliable narrator who is speaking outside of his field of expertise and only shooting a theory to justify his lack of understanding. Ork technology works. Mek boys may not fully understand what they're doing, but they are definitely doing it. Yes, the Waaagh! is a thing. That's not the point. Ork ships do not jump around without engines bolted on or without fuel, Ghazghkull actually had to have Orkimedes develop actual teleporter technology that actually worked, Red Wunz Go Fasta has many times also been established as a phenomenon that the Imperials noted, without any actual evidence other than 'yeah man the red ones do seem to faster huh, that's weird.' 40k nerds for whatever reason just go right to the Ork psychic stuff and completely skip over the literal tons of information about how, oh I dunno, maybe the people examining and critiquing the technology come from a society that doesn't actually understand it's own technology? And etc, etc. None of which changes the fact that the Gorkanaut isn't going to be able to move just because Orks will it to, because there are giant hunks of metal in the way of it's completely stupid looking idiot legs. That model is garbage. S.J. fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 08:31
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Literally The Worst posted:I'm not even defending GW, this is just a really dumb nitpick. No less dumb than suggesting it's ok for a model to be static and totally unusable, for the cost of one that is, because people can't get them to work in the fiction ergo consistent design aesthetic 
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Oct 1, 2014 08:32
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Yo waddup Orky Psychic resonance discussion http://diaryofawaaaghgamer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/ork-myths-part-1-on-psychic-resonance.html?m=1 In conclusion: Ork tech is pretty drat sound. Don't confuse moronic Imperials inability to understand it with "only works because Orks are psychic. " Also does the current codex make any mention of psyhic resonance? I don't remember seeing it and I spoke to one of the design team members a few years ago. They confirmed that the Internet has it wrong, Ork stuff does work and the passages people misunderstand are a commentary on how Orks are underestimated. They said it was probably going to be explained better in the next dex. Daedleh fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 09:57
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Yeah, there's a really big difference between "Shokk Attack Guns elude the understanding of Imperials who believe guns are powered literally by prayer" and these models being unable to walk forward: Jesus, just look at the 360 view on GW's site. The *orkanaut is somehow worse. At least the centurions could lift one of their legs. edit: holy poo poo that thing's only 5 and a half inches tall?! and $105??? how can anybody defend this poo poo Broken Loose fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 10:31
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Oct 1, 2014 10:36
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i had a whole post going here but once i parsed the chains with dog bones on them i just sighed and deleted it come on. somebody tell me how many preorders this $81 piece of poo poo had.
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Oct 1, 2014 10:56
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Broken Loose posted:Yeah, there's a really big difference between "Shokk Attack Guns elude the understanding of Imperials who believe guns are powered literally by prayer" and these models being unable to walk forward: Wait, that's a dude in powered armor, inside even more powered armor??? 
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Oct 1, 2014 11:12
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"the small, jewel like objects of magic and wonder we call citadel miniatures"
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Oct 1, 2014 11:29
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BadOptics posted:Wait, that's a dude in powered armor, inside even more powered armor??? I recently became a Pressganger for Privateer Press, I personally salute GWs efforts to make it easier for me.
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Oct 1, 2014 11:55
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Calico Noose posted:I recently became a Pressganger for Privateer Press, I personally salute GWs efforts to make it easier for me. Things are aswome FagtasticalMondays fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2014 12:08
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Well if you're interested the Warmahordes thread is pretty good for helping people starting out with the game.
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Oct 1, 2014 12:19
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Calico Noose posted:Well if you're interested the Warmahordes thread is pretty good for helping people starting out with the game. things FagtasticalMondays fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2014 12:31
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Broken Loose posted:
 "The small, jewel like objects of magic and wonder we call citadel miniatures" vs. "Just stick a post in there to hold the shoulderpad on, it'll be fine."
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Oct 1, 2014 12:35
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I don't get why people seem to whine constantly about GW pricing, but I never seem to hear much hate for the privateer press prices in comparison. Take the Khador Colossal compared to the Gorkanaut, its an extra $30 for an extra inch? And that's in loving metal/resin compared to (in my opinion) much better quality plastic. Then you get the Winter Guard Rifle Corps, $50 for 10 models, when you can get 10 tactical marines for $40. I painted those Rifle corps and they were a bitch to assemble and to paint, much worse than the comparable GW bits, which are also much more customisable with extra parts galore. I'm a fantasy player who started moving over to Warmachine due to how much love it got at my club, and the efforts of the (creepily named) press ganger, who convinced me that it was all so much greener when you join the "good side". I love the world, it plays well and the models look cool, but gently caress their pricing and model quality. I'd personally buy so much more GW than privateer-press for that alone.
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Oct 1, 2014 12:47
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FagtasticalMondays posted:Cheers, when I have some money to spend I could seem my self picking up an army, generally how much would it be to get a competitive one off the ground? It's not terribly expensive to get to a 50 point army(the tournament standard) but the way people buy armies in warmahordes is that you tend to have a broad base of models to choose from, rather than collecting one army. I recommend starting small with warmahordes, so you can master things a bit at a time. Natrapx posted:I don't get why people seem to whine constantly about GW pricing, but I never seem to hear much hate for the privateer press prices in comparison. Yeah, I mean WM/H is cheaper to get into, but you aren't really saving money on models with them, which kinda sucks. The big thing is that you will only ever need one WGRC box. In fact, you'll rarely need more than one of any unit, whereas in 40k with the game being bigger, you have to buy more models just to play. WM/H being cheaper is more a matter of the game being smaller than the models. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 12:49
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The difference is that those ten WMH figures can change how your army performs substantially more than just adding hitpoints to a WHFB unit. Most people end up spending just as much on WMH anyway, but are happier about it because the rules let you use what you buy. Plus Privateer are OK with discounters, so knock 30% off the comparison prices.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:03
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I split into two a few years ago - Mantic for the big battles and abstracted rules and Warmahordes for the gritty micromanaging complex rules. The thing that strikes me about Warmahordes is that although the rules are just as (if not more) complex as GWs, they are extremely clear, logical and easy to pick up. Definitely start small though. The £30 battle boxes are designed as intro games. Pick a faction, get the battlebox and ask your locals for some games. People are much happier playing small games in WMH than 40k. You'll definitely want to start small - the sheer amount of special rules and tactical choices is overwhelming at first. Even your battlebox games will have more choice and tactics than any game of 40k you've played (and without any rule loopholes). From there it's hard to say what the average army costs since you tend to have a collection that you pick and choose from rather than a single fixed army list. I'd generally say that you'd be up and running at "full size" within £150 - and you'll have plenty of spare models to swap in and out. You'll probably have two casters/warlocks(generals) at that point. One of the things that's staggering is just how much of an impact swapping your caster out has on the way your army plays. I generally use either Deneghra or Terminus with my Cryx. With Deneghra it's a trolling army designed to shut down my opponents models with debuffs while Dene dances around, carefully carving them up with a scalpel. Terminus looks at an area of the battlefield each turn and declares every enemy model there hosed. He then stands there laughing while the enemy throws everything they've got at him, bouncing off his armour of 30-40. Changing out the single model in your army gives more variation than collecting an entire 40k army.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:14
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first thing I thought when I saw these was 'Dickwolves' Apparently elite troops in the Imperium can't have decent looking flyers.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:20
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LordLobo posted:first thing I thought when I saw these was 'Dickwolves' It feels like they've doubled down on the 40k aesthetic so hard that everything looks really dumb and awful. Now instead of appealing to teenagers, you're appealing to 8-year-old kids.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:22
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Suffer not aerodynamics to live!
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Oct 1, 2014 13:25
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LordLobo posted:first thing I thought when I saw these was 'Dickwolves' The Nephilim is cool cause it actually has wings and a narrow fuselage, and the Stormtalon is ok if you dispense with any notion of it being a fighter jet and think of it as a helicopter with VTOL jets instead of a rotor. Otherwise, it's forgeworld (and still no fighter)
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Oct 1, 2014 13:27
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petrol blue posted:
The thing is, I'd actually be kind of OK with the Centurions and the Taurox and the Wolfjet and the Dogsled being unfeasible if they looked really cool but they just look retarded as hell for reasons above and beyond the lack of functionality.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:35
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S.J. posted:You're about to start an argument with someone who played Orks for a decade and aggressively absorbed every piece of fluff about them that they could, but okay. Everyone knows the gestalt psyche is a thing, but the concept has always been originally based on a single small excerpt, written in the first person from an extraordinarily unreliable narrator who is speaking outside of his field of expertise and only shooting a theory to justify his lack of understanding. Ork technology works. Mek boys may not fully understand what they're doing, but they are definitely doing it. Yes, the Waaagh! is a thing. That's not the point. Ork ships do not jump around without engines bolted on or without fuel, Ghazghkull actually had to have Orkimedes develop actual teleporter technology that actually worked, Red Wunz Go Fasta has many times also been established as a phenomenon that the Imperials noted, without any actual evidence other than 'yeah man the red ones do seem to faster huh, that's weird.' 40k nerds for whatever reason just go right to the Ork psychic stuff and completely skip over the literal tons of information about how, oh I dunno, maybe the people examining and critiquing the technology come from a society that doesn't actually understand it's own technology? And etc, etc. You're mistaking Warhammer lore for something that's internally consistent and sensible and then applying that to the faction that's written specifically to be a comedic interpretation of the game's flavor. Orks having a gestalt field where they just believe their tech works against all laws of physics and sense is no less ridiculous, and in fact functionally the same thing, as a space-faring race that doesn't understand their own sacred technology. That loving hysterical Space Wolf warboat was posted on this very page.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:40
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petrol blue posted:
Hahahaha I didn't even know that sure is magical And ha broken loose still continues to be right in all his board gaming opinions. You'd think by now that since GW only cares about you buying their poo poo and not actually painting them (rip golden demon) they'd have colored plastics or under gates to hide the ugly separation spots that gundams had 5-10 years ago. I also like the contrived notion to twist the psychic gestalt into being that red ones are self fulfilling ork fantasies instead of the possibility that orks recognize the need for quick optical identification of their vehicles' capabilities. I bet if they included a blurb about diamonds and checkered patterns we would believe they made them fly better or even fly them at all instead of squadron ID markings for flight wings. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 13:44
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:You're mistaking Warhammer lore for something that's internally consistent and sensible and then applying that to the faction that's written specifically to be a comedic interpretation of the game's flavor. Orks having a gestalt field where they just believe their tech works against all laws of physics and sense is no less ridiculous, and in fact functionally the same thing, as a space-faring race that doesn't understand their own sacred technology. That loving hysterical Space Wolf warboat was posted on this very page. Quote me where the lore says that Orks have this mythical psychic field that is responsible for all their tech working and lets them fire a box of shrapnel as if it were a gun.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:46
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The warmahordes two player starters are pretty cool, you get the same as two single player boxes plus an extra unit on each side and a mini rulebook.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:59
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Space dark age fantasy is neat and unique for its time. Race of self-aware beings made to make fun of tropes of said fantasy is better. Literature written from the propaganda POV of protagonist of the dark age fantasy to make it seem like the second is true is the best. Parody is good when it can serve as both parody and in universe grim darkness. The funny part is that us fans take the IG primer guide for what it is as an in-universe fiction element but can't do the same for ork facts. If you believe that ork psychos make their tech work you should also believe that Tyranids pose no threat and can be readily squished under your boot and tau oriental men can't see very well because of their squinty eyes. Those are all in the primer but correct me cuz I don't have it right in front of me.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:11
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Daedleh posted:Quote me where the lore says that Orks have this mythical psychic field that is responsible for all their tech working and lets them fire a box of shrapnel as if it were a gun. Maybe orks just understand how to routinely violate physics on a genetic memory level, which is much less ridiculous and threatening to the internal justification of why people spent hundreds of dollars on ork produktz. Chill la Chill posted:Space dark age fantasy is neat and unique for its time. Race of self-aware beings made to make fun of tropes of said fantasy is better. Literature written from the propaganda POV of protagonist of the dark age fantasy to make it seem like the second is true is the best. Parody is good when it can serve as both parody and in universe grim darkness. They maybe finally got to the part in the Horus Heresy book series where Horus fights the Emperor after 33 books and decades after the first time this lore was put down, but up until now there is no definitive explanation for why Horus fights the Emperor one-on-one, because either army book presents a different explanation of the motivations. This is a fairly clever way to go about it and way better than dull factual prose that dominates a lot of gaming, but leads to "I have consumed every piece of [my favorite faction]'s lore, and I'll have you know..." Whether we can safely establish whether orks have explicable technology is going to be important when I attack them with a giant blue cockboat [a uniquely developed ship for a faction that fears any new technology, but constantly has some anyway because reasons].
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Oct 1, 2014 14:27
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Daedleh posted:Yo waddup Orky Psychic resonance discussion Your website doesn't make a single point about how Ork technology is sound. Point 1 is "Imperials!". Point 2 is "they don't make claims about 100% of ork tech therefore the unmentioned tech is sound". Point 3 is "well here are some ideas I have". Point 4 is "20 years ago they wrote different fluff in a different game". Point 5 is "just believe". The only fluff that exists describing how Ork tech works is what people go off of when they talk about the psychic things. Every other race has some pseudo-scientific breakdown of how a bolter or shuriken catapault works or how psychic powers work or diagrams of weapons and stuff. As far as I know the only "tech" fluff that exists for Orks is that Imperial discussion, so why on earth would anyone treat it differently than what's in the other books? People seem content to assume that Imperials don't actually know how their own tech works despite the insane implications of that (and rather than assuming that's just the Imperial line and they actually have competent engineers), so why extend the same benefit of the doubt to Orks? And why are the Ork players so huffy about it? Like, just find me a piece of fluff that says Ork tech is super sound and makes a lot of sense, and then tell me why it coming from the Ork perspective would be a reliable narrator as opposed to any other perspective.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:37
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Chill la Chill posted:Space dark age fantasy is neat and unique for its time. Race of self-aware beings made to make fun of tropes of said fantasy is better. Literature written from the propaganda POV of protagonist of the dark age fantasy to make it seem like the second is true is the best. Parody is good when it can serve as both parody and in universe grim darkness. What this guy said. The ork psychic tech is the thing that works differently to how the rest of the universe works. Every other races tech might be augmented by psychic control but no other race can apparently believe a certain coloured vehicle to go faster. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the imperial piece isn't as reliable as the Infantrymans Uplifting Primer. E: also, why would there even be detailed diagrams of how ork stuff works? It's all custom built. Nothing has the same specs or design. You seemed to miss the point of what I wrote - it wasn't to conclusively prove that Ork tech works since that is and should be the default stance, but that the belief that it doesn't work is wrong. I love that you discount Gorkamorka, the granddaddy of modern Orks, but count a piece of fluff that doesn't appear or is even mentioned in the current codex. Daedleh fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 14:47
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Imperial propaganda that spreads the idea that they have no clue how any of their poo poo works is also cool and meta. Spreading lies about how thin, outnumbered, and desperate they are and actually employ doomed fleets to act as bait is on Dune levels of plans within plans. Now if any of the writers actually run with that idea I don't know. Of course that doesn't matter when my cool anime tech savvy army actually employs railguns. Now that is using magic to shoot some shrapnel.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:50
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"It works 'cuz I says it do!" is the quote, but I can't remember where that comes from. Early GW stuff was far more imaginative, casting the orks as a bio-weapon of a long forgotten super race. Ork beliefs psychic influencing reality originally extended way beyond guns; early Madboys' delusion and psychosis could manifest on the tabletop way back in 'Ere We Go. Old GW had some really cool ideas and concepts. In some ways, the ork thing mirrored how humanity's (and Eldar) pathos created the Chaos gods - except weaponized as a practical application. They lost a lot of that in the transition to producing GI Joe wolf-force rockets and power armor to protect your power armor. They're making the setting more cartoonish and less unique as they derive works from derived work. The 40k universe of today is something like a tenth generation photocopy of a photocopy. The only real exception is what FFG is doing with the role-playing stuff, which has a lot of callbacks to Rogue Trader days but is married to the IP of today.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:15
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