Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS

XboxPants posted:

Does anyone remember what the previous device of Fitz's they looked at on the tablet was?

Didn't see this answered yet. The overkill device which they used in this episode was the gizmo that Ward and Fitz was sent to Russia to sabotage/destroy in S01E07 "The Hub". Back then it was a house-sized device that Fitz reverse-engineered in the field into a hand-held weapon to aid in their escape. It was explained as using sonic vibrations to destroy enemy weapons (...something something unstable molecules something...), so it was even possible to see it coming if you picked up on Fitz repeated mentions of it while they were discussing cloaking tech.

As for Simmons, my pet crazy theory is that she was secretly a Hydra agent all along, just working for a different head than Ward and Garrett, and after Fitz got hurt she got cold feet, but had to go back to Hydra for *reasons*. People speculated that she was a sleeper agent within SHIELD in season 1 as well, and there were hints at it. And the writers ought to know that the audience will obviously expect the twist to be that she is undercover when the preview tries so hard to make her seem like she's gone Hydra.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DancinBrud
Jul 23, 2007

Sure, Hunter, ask for a burial for Hartley, but just leave Idaho's body in the car!

The sonic device Fitz suggested was the Overkill Device from that episode last season where he and Ward went on a mission to Russia or wherever. Cool callback. (E: beaten!)

When Hunter mentioned his ex-wife, did anybody else's Mockingbird sense tingle? I'm guessing they'll change her backstory for the show since it's unlikely Hawkeye will appear.

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!

Slashrat posted:

As for Simmons, my pet crazy theory is that she was secretly a Hydra agent all along, just working for a different head than Ward and Garrett, and after Fitz got hurt she got cold feet, but had to go back to Hydra for *reasons*. People speculated that she was a sleeper agent within SHIELD in season 1 as well, and there were hints at it. And the writers ought to know that the audience will obviously expect the twist to be that she is undercover when the preview tries so hard to make her seem like she's gone Hydra.

This would be a really interesting direction for them to go in. I could get behind Simmons working against the team for awhile, but being brought back to the light side eventually.

What hints were there that Simmons was a sleeper agent? I never picked up on any.

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS

NowonSA posted:

This would be a really interesting direction for them to go in. I could get behind Simmons working against the team for awhile, but being brought back to the light side eventually.

What hints were there that Simmons was a sleeper agent? I never picked up on any.

Nothing overt. Mainly the scene at the end of S01E20 where Fitz wanted Simmons to reassure him that she wasn't Hydra and she gave a really genuine and heartfelt one. While it stands on it own as a touching moment of Fitz feeling horribly betrayed and having lost his former blind trust in the people he holds close, it just seemed like a perfect setup for Simmons turning out to have been lying to his face right then.

Slashrat fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Oct 1, 2014

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax
South Ossetia isn't Russia jeez

loving Putin apologists in this thread

Jetfire
Apr 29, 2008
Yay, Coulson learned how to use the holo-menus!

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.

Slashrat posted:

Nothing overt. Mainly the scene at the end of S01E20 where Fitz wanted Simmons to reassure him that she wasn't Hydra and she gave a really genuine and heartfelt one. While it stands on it own as a touching moment of Fitz feeling horribly betrayed and having lost his former blind trust in the people he holds close, it just seemed like a perfect setup for Simmons turning out to have been lying to his face right then.

Also there was some scene where she had a little off-hand remark to herself angsting about having to lie all the time.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

The episode was pretty alright for me outside of what's his face stealing the sniper rifle, running it all the way downstairs from perch Triplett had ready, through a crowd of people spooking them and blowing his cover, just so he could try to shoot Kreel from 20 feet away. That almost completely ruined the episode for me.

Maybe he's a bad shot.

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.
Who cares.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax
Maybe he wanted to watch his head explode in great detail.

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS
I just remembered reading that Donnie Gill/Blizzard/aka that SHIELD academy student that gained ice powers last season is supposedly appearing next episode. That puts Coulson's line in the preview into a completely different perspective.

Slashrat fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 1, 2014

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?

The Sharmat posted:

Maybe he wanted to watch his head explode in great detail.
Must have not had good gun skills if he couldn't use V.A.T.S. from that vantage point, maybe he thought he would get lucky and the Mysterious Stranger would have got the kill.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
I think making Simmons a sleeper agent would be getting into Too Many Moles territory. It's a six man team. Skye was a mole for Rising Tide/her boyfriend/herself, May was a mole for Fury, Ward was a mole for Garrett/Hydra. If Simmons was also a mole, than the only one on Coulson's team WITHOUT a secret agenda would be Fitz. I think that's a bit much.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Oct 1, 2014

imperialparadox
Apr 17, 2012

Don't tell me no one has told the girl she isn't exactly human!
Counterpoint: this is a show with spies.

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Jamesman posted:

Didn't they set that up though when planning the mission? Specifically saying they'd need to blast him in the face up close to put him down? That's why Hunter went down there for the shot instead of the sniper position.

I'm not sure why that distance would make a difference with a high-powered rifle, but at least it didn't come out of the blue.

All they mentioned was getting him by surprise (before he could armor up) and possibly using armor piercing rounds. I don't remember them mentioning having to shoot him up close as it had been repeatedly stated the the safest way to deal with him was to keep your distance.

Either way, it was a really tacky excuse to get Kreel chasing Hunter so that Coulson could use the device on Kreel.

On a different note, I hope they didn't blow their effects budget these two episodes because everything related to Kreel and the Obelisk has been pretty good.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

So now that the show is good, the ratings drop far enough that it gets cancelled, right? :(

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

King Burgundy posted:

So now that the show is good, the ratings drop far enough that it gets cancelled, right? :(

Season 2 premiere was half of the season 1 premiere. :(

The ratings will probably never really improve. It burned away it's potential audience already and they are simply not realistically able to do the kind of stuff needed to bring that many people back (big stars with big cameos). I just hope it can coast along with the kind of ratings it has been getting. At least long enough for this whole 084/Coulson/Skye thing to be resolved.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Considering the Marvel cinematic universe is an entertainment juggernaut that makes billions upon billions of dollars, and Agents of SHIELD is an exceptionally convenient way to advertise the franchise and keep it in people's minds during the downtime between the films, it ain't going anywhere unless the ratings absolutely tank.

Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know

Asimo posted:

Considering the Marvel cinematic universe is an entertainment juggernaut that makes billions upon billions of dollars, and Agents of SHIELD is an exceptionally convenient way to advertise the franchise and keep it in people's minds during the downtime between the films, it ain't going anywhere unless the ratings absolutely tank.

Exactly, and we'll probably see some bumps when the Marvel films and Netflix series start up.

Sighence
Aug 26, 2009

Burning_Monk posted:

Exactly, and we'll probably see some bumps when the Marvel films and Netflix series start up.

I agree. The first tie-in helped a bit last season, and the tie-in and universe events with TWS catapulted the show back to watchable. Further ties to other parts of the franchise are highly unlikely to hurt. However, I think there's an important caveat: The show will live or die with the writers. I think the main cast, to a one, have proven themselves, doubly so the guys who play Ward and Fitz. Really the writers just need to rely on their arcs, as opposed to treading water waiting for an admittedly big twist like they did in the months between premiere and TWS.

Inkspot
Dec 3, 2013

I believe I have
an appointment.
Mr. Goongala?
Seconded.

I laid out the timeline for a co-worker today that between the release of Guardians, the second season premiere of AOS, Agent Carter, more AOS, Avengers 2, Daredevil, and Ant-Man, Marvel has things planned, at least, almost a year in advance in the MCU.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Inkspot posted:

Seconded.

I laid out the timeline for a co-worker today that between the release of Guardians, the second season premiere of AOS, Agent Carter, more AOS, Avengers 2, Daredevil, and Ant-Man, Marvel has things planned, at least, almost a year in advance in the MCU.

There is literally a loving timeline in Feige's office where he has a tentative plan out to like 2025 or some poo poo.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





Dexo posted:

There is literally a loving timeline in Feige's office where he has a tentative plan out to like 2025 or some poo poo.

That's not a bad thing, surely? Hell, if Marvel Comics did the same thing instead of just yearly writer's retreats, poo poo would make a lot more sense. You could play the long game and set things up years in advance rather than just lurch from "event" to "event".

One of my favorite TV shows back in the day, Babylon 5 had the major story points of the whole five year run planned out in advance. Sure, lots of the details got switched around as actors left and new ones arrived and as the main writer came up with new ideas on how to get where he was going. But that was just picking which side streets to drive down. the starting point and destination never really changed.

Compare that to shows like Battlestar Galactica or Lost or Twin Peaks, which were shows that looked like they had a master plan but turned out to being made up on the fly instead. How much of fans' dissatisfaction with the endings of BSG or Lost could have been avoided if they'd actually known where they were heading before they started driving? Might Twin Peaks have actually managed to go anywhere at all if there had actually been a plan?

No, I think having a loose plan that you're willing to adapt to events is the way to go for something like the MCU. Turns out that Guardians of the Galaxy is the highest grossing film of the year? Well let's tweak things to get the GoG characters more screen time. Don't think you can keep Chris Evans past his six film commitment? Start getting possible replacement Caps into the mix. But sticking to a broad plan of intervening movies building up to an Avengers movie every three years or so, and knowing more or less what those films are about so you can build up to them in the other films and TV shows and what not? That's smart thinking in my book.

Sure as hell beats the "let's keep throwing poo poo onto the wall and see what sticks" approach that DC's doing. Particularly since the best things they've done lately, Arrow and The Flash (I caught the pilot and it was great), are explicitly NOT in the same universe as the DC films! :cripes:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
This may be getting a bit The First Evil/BSG, but did anyone else get the impression that fake Simmons wasn't...entirely fake? The way that "she" was subtly guiding Fitz's actions this week, to the point of outright noticing Creel's file before he did? It almost felt like she was some Loki-esque outside force manipulating him.

The Yellow Ant
Apr 6, 2004

I can lift 50 times my own weight in hope.

BrianWilly posted:

This may be getting a bit The First Evil/BSG, but did anyone else get the impression that fake Simmons wasn't...entirely fake? The way that "she" was subtly guiding Fitz's actions this week, to the point of outright noticing Creel's file before he did? It almost felt like she was some Loki-esque outside force manipulating him.

When Fitz stares past Simmons' shoulder and says "or do we" he is looking at the file.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

I think the main difference between a great series and one like Lost is being willing to end it on a high note. Lost and Heroes and other shows started off interesting with some sort of plan, but then as they took off things got rewritten to extend it and they just petered off into plot delays and mediocrity.

BrianWilly posted:

This may be getting a bit The First Evil/BSG, but did anyone else get the impression that fake Simmons wasn't...entirely fake? The way that "she" was subtly guiding Fitz's actions this week, to the point of outright noticing Creel's file before he did? It almost felt like she was some Loki-esque outside force manipulating him.

I think that's just his subconscious working.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
That's what they want you to think. :argh:

Mr Beens
Dec 2, 2006
I like Skye's new field outfit.
Good start to the season so far, things are looking good.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice
So, is there any word on a soundtrack being released for this show? I'm a big ol' Bear McCreary fan and I think the title/Coulson's theme are neat. Kind of riffing on the Avengers theme but not.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to
Uh am I the only one that heard Dale Cooper talk about his Daughter? The only person with a mystery dad plot point is Skye, so he's Skye's dad.

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.

twistedmentat posted:

Uh am I the only one that heard Dale Cooper talk about his Daughter? The only person with a mystery dad plot point is Skye, so he's Skye's dad.

Yeah but it's been known for a while that Agent Cooper was playing Skye's dad, that's why nobody made it a big thing in this thread (I think).

At least I knew it.

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
I thought the season finale showed Raina referring to him as Skye's dad. Trey MacDougal has come a long way since Charlotte left him.

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!

Asimo posted:

Considering the Marvel cinematic universe is an entertainment juggernaut that makes billions upon billions of dollars, and Agents of SHIELD is an exceptionally convenient way to advertise the franchise and keep it in people's minds during the downtime between the films, it ain't going anywhere unless the ratings absolutely tank.

The show exists to serve ABC's ends, not Marvel Studios'. Why on earth would Marvel need any help keeping the MCU fresh in people's minds as long as they're releasing at least two films per year?

Granted, I don't claim to know exactly what their ratings floor is (especially given that it skews much more towards 18-34 males than the bulk of ABC's programming), but I don't buy that the synergy involved renders it that much less susceptible to cancellation.

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.
I expected Creel to end up as a statue, but that they'd spin it as a "And he's gone for good now! :downs:" so they could have him "shockingly" show up again later, like what they did with Graviton... so I was really glad Coulson was smart enough to make that logical leap himself.

That said, Crusher Creel behind bars under the jurisdiction of this rear end in a top hat general is a great first step towards getting a Thunderbolts plotline started. That'd be an awesome spinoff show, I fuckin' love me some Thunderbolts. Throw them in against Luke Cage on his show or something, I dunno, whatever.

Braki posted:

I thought the season finale showed Raina referring to him as Skye's dad. Trey MacDougal has come a long way since Charlotte left him.

In the finale there was a "Skye's dad" character that Raina talked to, but we didn't see his face at that time. This is the first time we got to see who he actually is.

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!
Honestly, after having my expectations raised by the last few S1 episodes and the season premiere, I was pretty disappointed by last night's episode. The first half especially just dragged - it was almost as though this and last week's were originally conceived as one episode, and while that would definitely have been too much story for 43 minutes, it wasn't enough for twice that.

Also frustrating: the last few minutes seemed to go back to the S1 trope of treating incremental advancements in ongoing story arcs as though they were major revelations. Coulson is still carving Kree diagrams into walls, just like at the end of last season's finale... except May knows about it! Raina is working with Skye's father to carry out some mysterious evolution-related agenda, and the latter wants Skye back, just like at the end of the S1 finale... but we see his face this time! (I'll give the writers the bit with Raina and the obelisk. That was actually sorta cool.)

...and again, holy gently caress, that "He must have absorbed the obelisk and its deadly powers!" line. Sure, SHIELD has had some spotty dialogue even in most of its better episodes, but I have no idea how that one made it into the shooting script.

Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Oct 2, 2014

Canadian Tapeworm
Feb 14, 2012

Barry Convex posted:

The show exists to serve ABC's ends, not Marvel Studios'.

Both ABC and Marvel are owned by Disney.

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!

Canadian Tapeworm posted:

Both ABC and Marvel are owned by Disney.

A gargantuan entertainment conglomerate whose divisions have their own goals and purposes, yes. See the curious Marvel/Big Hero 6 situation for an even more recent example.

The show exists because ABC wanted to leverage the Marvel brand to boost its ratings. It does not exist because Marvel Studios was afraid people would forget about the MCU during the release gap.

Keshik
Oct 27, 2000

Barry Convex posted:

A gargantuan entertainment conglomerate whose divisions have their own goals and purposes, yes. See the curious Marvel/Big Hero 6 situation for an even more recent example.

The show exists because ABC wanted to leverage the Marvel brand to boost its ratings. It does not exist because Marvel Studios was afraid people would forget about the MCU during the release gap.

Synergy. Vertical integration.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Barry Convex posted:

A gargantuan entertainment conglomerate whose divisions have their own goals and purposes, yes. See the curious Marvel/Big Hero 6 situation for an even more recent example.

The show exists because ABC wanted to leverage the Marvel brand to boost its ratings. It does not exist because Marvel Studios was afraid people would forget about the MCU during the release gap.

I'm still willing to bet it gets a greater ratings latitude because of the Marvel connection though. It would be far more likely to get its order cut to 13 episodes and relegated to Friday or Saturday night than be outright cancelled.

That said, its ratings aren't all that bad. Its the highest rated thing ABC has going on Tuesday night.

Yeah, it had a huge drop from the pilot YOY, but that's not all that out of the ordinary.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
Spoilers for 2.06 from io9:

quote:

Joining the cast in episode 2.06, "A Fractured House" will be Tim DeKay (White Collar) as Sen. Christian Ward, Grant's abusive older brother. [Zap2It]

Brett Dalton explained what this season's arc is for Ward:

The question is, 'Who is Grant Ward without Agent Garrett, without somebody ordering him around?' He's created kind of in Garrett's image and now that Garrett's not there, he has to really decide who he is and what he wants.

  • Locked thread