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The pilot was bad, the second episode was better. But it doesn't matter, because we are enjoying the show. The overt references are a little much, but being able to pause, explain something niche and nerdy to my SO, and then continue on has been a very pleasant experience for us. In the pilot, when Barbara was walking towards Jim with the backside of the clock visible on the outside of the building, with all those green colors surrounding her, I got to pause and explain who Oracle was. The less obvious stuff like that is fun. The show works for me. It's plodding and dumb, and overacted, but it's pretty to look at and I don't dread watching it. It doesn't bore me, and I've been looking at it like an Elseworlds tale. Unlike the superior Arrow (which took me countless viewings to get into) - this show has me on the hook from the start. I especially liked when the SO asked "what year is it?" And I realized the show does a really good job of mixing technologies (Cobblepot stealing the early 2000's cell from the preppie kid who was driving a late 2000s SUV, while inside Gotham everyone drives late eighties and mid 90s Sedans and uses old late 90s CRT monitors). In that regard it reminds me of Archer. Anyway, I like this show, despite its major, major flaws.
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Oct 2, 2014 13:54
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The Lord Bude posted:Why does everyone have a problem with the character he played in Dexter? I only watched the first 5 seasons or so but I never had a problem with him. Dexter became progressively bad as the show went on before having an inexplicitly amazing fourth season. I think the response to the critical praise was firing anyone who had a hand in that season since it then just kept getting worse again- I can't blame the actor for his preformance since I don't think he could have done much more with the part. If he gets a chance to show off acting skills in this show then I'm happy for him. imperialparadox posted:There has to be something up with the Waynes in this version, because I have to think that was the true goal of the robber that shot them. If I'm remembering right in the comic the father jumped in front of the mother to protect her, and that spooked the robber and he panicked and shot, but in the show he seemed to do it anyways even though the father was clearly being compliant. Was the robbery just a cover-up for a hit? I'm thinking that the robbery was definately a murder, there is no reason to shoot each of them. He did not even take Thomas Wayne's wallet or other jewelry, he just awkwardly slow-walked away from the crime. Darko posted:The Nolan movies and some comics are very critical of the idea of Batman and make Alfred complicit in the whole thing (he kind of had to be, as Bruce's guardian). I'm a big fan of showing Batman as a psychopath or stories making a point that Batman is a guy driven by issues taking things into his own hands, but I'm a bit afraid that this show is going to pull that off poorly with what has been done so far. Alfred being struck raising Bruce due to a sense of duty could be really cool when put up against his confusion on how to raise a child. Butlers can serve, help, clean up after you, and really assist you in a lot of things but are not usually in a position of giving orders to their employer. Alfred's natural position of making sure Bruce's life stays stable in conflict with his new role of parent has way cooler and interesting possibilities than him freaking out over the candle and just being a boring bad parent. I've currently grouped the characters into three categories based on if I am happy when they come on or if I then go into the other room to get snacks: Oswald Cobblepot is so awesome that if this show tanks I want a crossover with Hannibal to give the actor a chance to really showoff what he can do. The Penguin hating his name is a neat thing that really got me interested in him, never reading the comics means that I've only seen short and campy versions of the character who are more interested in wacky schemes than criminal overlording. The scene I'm watching while typing is incredible, his mediocre attempt at ransoming off a person just feels so pathetic and desperate until he just commits to being monstrous. Selina Kyle is the worst part of this show and feels like a character who is meant to appeal to children on a show that in no way is meant to be fun for the whole family. I hope they get rid of her soon because even if cast perfect she is messing with the vibe of the show. Drifter posted:Following modern Batman Lore, he's practically family back a generation. CuwiKhons posted:I've been thinking about this episode again and I'm really irritated at the "no psychologists for Bruce" thing. Alfred knows that Bruce is self harming. He's also ten years old. If you're the guardian of a ten year old who has been through some serious trauma and is reacting to it by hurting himself, it's time to talk to a psychologist, whether he loving wants to or not. JediTalentAgent posted:Besides, how useful has mental health system of Gotham been, anyway? Arkham Asylum been good at rehab/treating people with mental disorders? Christ, even the mental health experts in the town tend to go nuts, too. Alfred comes from a dated social position and obligation which is just a few steps away from having been owned by the Wayne family, that is just one reason he is a terrible guardian. I get the feeling that the Wayne family had links to Arkham Asylum and helped shut it down when they found out it was terrible or actively let it be terrible. This would make them insisting on no psychiatrist order sensible as them protecting their son and Joe Chill could have been a former patient killing them out of revenge and/or to stop them from re-opening the asylum.
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Oct 2, 2014 14:26
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Punishing David Zayas for Dexter is really unfair. Despite being given the worst B-Plots and dialog, he still came out as one of the only likeable actors from that series. He's fairly talented outside of Dexter, as well. You guys ever watch OZ? Tuxedo Jack fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 14:48
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Tuxedo Jack posted:Punishing David Zayas for Dexter is really unfair. Despite being given the worst B-Plots and dialog, he still came out as one of the only likeable actors from that series. He's fairly talented outside of Dexter, as well. Thank you for reminding me why I kept trying to like him in Dexter, I completely forgot how good he was in OZ or that he was in OZ hanging out with Lauren Vélez (María LaGuerta) and B.D. Wong (Father Ray Mukada). The latter was never on Dexter but you got me thinking about a happy ending for Angel Batista where he moves away from Miami before showing up in SVU land to find that his former priest buddy is now working for the police and openly gay- as Dr. George Huang's boyfriend is revealed for the first time as none other than Vince Masuka. I'm just going to splice amazing TV shows into ones that let me down whenever a good actor gets a tough break. Given how many people loved Dexter the salary that David Zayas received is reason alone to cut him some slack. Hopefully he was paid well and left the show having paid off his mortgage.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:21
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Phylodox posted:I hope this doesn't become one of those threads that's almost unreadable outside of the running commentary as the show actually airs. What do you mean, become?
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Oct 2, 2014 15:43
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 I mean in the sense that no-one has actually straight out called him a Riddler several dozen times like Cat and Penguin. The way they bring up the name Penguin is so awkward too, who would even say that with a straight face as an insult.Phylodox posted:I hope this doesn't become one of those threads that's almost unreadable outside of the running commentary as the show actually airs.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:52
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Jerusalem posted:In the comics, Bruce did go see a therapist as a young man. I love Grant Morrison so much.
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Oct 2, 2014 16:38
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Explaining bits of Morrison's Batman run out of context to people is always entertaining.
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Oct 2, 2014 16:41
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Second episode was better but still a lot to improve on. I think it might have been better if they saved off the Wayne murder for the season finale. The show could follow Gordon over the course of the year, adjusting to Gotham, Bullock, etc. We would get glimpses of the Wayne's, Thomas being a doctor, Martha maybe running the Wayne foundation. And we would have seen a happy/well adjusted Bruce. I don't think that's been depicted much (life before the murders minus the scenes in Batman Begins)
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Oct 2, 2014 16:57
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With the exception of Fish Mooney, who I thought was less interesting this episode, a nice improvement over the pilot. Definitely a stronger start than any of the other comic book TV shows (admittedly haven't seen the Flash pilot).Phylodox posted:Papa Wayne didn't specifically forbid Alfred from having Bruce see a psychiatrist, he just told him to trust Bruce to know what's best for himself. Right, I'm not getting where the Waynes are supposed to be anti-medicine. Alfred is feeling intensely overwhelmed with the responsibility of raising this future titan and is taking Bruce's parents' instructions to give him a long leash too literally in response. He's clearly terrified of how messed up this kid is but also that if he's too commanding he might mess up making the kid a "Wayne." This is leading him to make bad decisions. Darko posted:I don't mind the show making Alfred/The Waynes flawed to show how Bruce grows up into a psychopath. Yeah, Alfred's obvious anger problem has the potential to be an interesting addition to the story. If your ward grows up to be Batman, you made mistakes in raising him. Kin posted:The problem with showing the Wayne's as anything less than saints before Bruce becomes Batman in this is that it undermines his quest for vengeance. There's nothing wrong with undermining a quest for vengeance. The only defense of what Bruce does in becoming Batman is that he does it for Gotham, not to get revenge.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:00
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Sir Kodiak posted:With the exception of Fish Mooney, who I thought was less interesting this episode, a nice improvement over the pilot. Definitely a stronger start than any of the other comic book TV shows (admittedly haven't seen the Flash pilot). Yea that last bit is key. Where it turns from getting revenge to stopping another kid from having to go through what he went through
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Oct 2, 2014 18:07
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I was surprised to see this as a trending topic on facebook before it was posted here, especially with how mad a lot of people have been about the shameless villain winking, but they have cast Harvey Dent. Shame me if this was posted before and I missed it. http://comicbook.com/2014/10/02/gotham-casts-nicholas-dagosto-as-harvey-dent/
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Oct 3, 2014 02:32
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Buddington posted:I was surprised to see this as a trending topic on facebook before it was posted here, especially with how mad a lot of people have been about the shameless villain winking, but they have cast Harvey Dent. Shame me if this was posted before and I missed it. I kind of called this, though I think they will make him a law student or an ADA. Let's count how many times the word "face" is said around him. An example will be "well I wouldn't want to go into a face-off with him"
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Oct 3, 2014 02:33
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sbaldrick posted:Batman already has it's villain like this, who I hope will never appear on this show. You were saying?
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Oct 3, 2014 02:45
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I never knew that the reason Batman kicks so much rear end is that everyone he fights is twenty years older than he is.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:24
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Rocksicles posted:You were saying? gently caress that bullshit. The best Harvey Dent is the one where he is Bruce's friend and drinking buddy. Plus Batman and Two-face do fight physically.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:25
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Drifter posted:I never knew that the reason Batman kicks so much rear end is that everyone he fights is twenty years older than he is. Batman is never going to show up and the whole show is an experiment to test the notion of "The most interesting part of any Batman story is the villains/everyone who isn't Batman" so the age continuity won't really ever come to fruition.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:37
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I just realized, I don't care if this show is any good or not. I'll watch it as long as it's on the air. Because it's Batman.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:43
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Madkal posted:I kind of called this, though I think they will make him a law student or an ADA. Let's count how many times the word "face" is said around him. An example will be "well I wouldn't want to go into a face-off with him" "Harvey is so weird. He acts one way ... and then he's completely different. Dealing with Harvey is like guessing between which side of a coin is going to land."
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Oct 3, 2014 03:57
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Timby posted:"Harvey is so weird. He acts one way ... and then he's completely different. Dealing with Harvey is like guessing between which side of a coin is going to land." I don't get it, Harvey isn't really a thing till around the same time Batman shows up. They are really trying to cram as much into this as they can. I don't get it.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:18
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Buddington posted:I was surprised to see this as a trending topic on facebook before it was posted here, especially with how mad a lot of people have been about the shameless villain winking, but they have cast Harvey Dent. Shame me if this was posted before and I missed it. So Harvey's going to be a shining beacon of integrity and actively make a dent (pun not intended) in crime for years and years BEFORE Batman shows up?
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Oct 3, 2014 04:21
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I look forward to every plot development and character introduction being greeted with confusion as to how it could mesh with a future that the show will never get to and isn't building towards.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:23
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They should have hazardous things always nearly hit Harvey in the face. Magma, nails, bees, acid, whatever. "Gee Harv, you should wear some kind of facemask. You're really playing the odds!"
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Oct 3, 2014 04:32
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Just like how every Batman comic thread eventually turns into a "Batman is responsible for _____ deaths because he never killed Joker/Two-Face/Ivy, etc.," can we start a tally of many deaths can we put on Gordon for not killing the Penguin? Makes me hope Penguin does a Lemongrab freakout someday at Gordon and shrieks that all the murders he committed are Gordon's fault.
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Oct 3, 2014 08:10
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This show is great. It's exactly as ridiculous as it should be, but all the characters treat it entirely seriously.massive spider posted:I'm actually really liking Oswald and Nigma, the absurd villain performances are the best part of the show. The worst are the parts it wants the audience to take seriously. Loki_XLII posted:Near the beginning of the episode, Bullock bumped into a guy, who then called Bullock a clown. Bullock is going to be the Joker. CuwiKhons posted:I've been thinking about this episode again and I'm really irritated at the "no psychologists for Bruce" thing. Alfred knows that Bruce is self harming. He's also ten years old. If you're the guardian of a ten year old who has been through some serious trauma and is reacting to it by hurting himself, it's time to talk to a psychologist, whether he loving wants to or not. Rocksicles posted:I don't get it, Harvey isn't really a thing till around the same time Batman shows up. They are really trying to cram as much into this as they can. I don't get it. Sir Kodiak posted:I look forward to every plot development and character introduction being greeted with confusion as to how it could mesh with a future that the show will never get to and isn't building towards. Detective No. 27 posted:They should have hazardous things always nearly hit Harvey in the face. Magma, nails, bees, acid, whatever.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:40
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Timby posted:"Harvey is so weird. He acts one way ... and then he's completely different. Dealing with Harvey is like guessing between which side of a coin is going to land."
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Oct 3, 2014 17:42
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Is there a reason Major Crimes Unit is somehow magically squeaky clean and Gotham Police aren't? Isn't Major Crimes a part of GCPD? Or are they like an FBI stand in or something?
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Oct 3, 2014 18:37
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Maybe Gotham is a prequel to Batman Begins, which makes more sense.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:05
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We need way less Bat ethics talk and way more artlessly expository puns, which is definitely this show's strength. What rabbit hole did you fall down, Jervis?!? Victor, you need to chill out. Enough with the crocodile tears, Waylon. You tell that Hagen, if he comes around here, I'll rearrange his face!!
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Oct 3, 2014 19:06
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Baron Bifford posted:Why is Oswald Cobblepot so impulsively violent? The depictions of him I'm used to are of a very dignified and self-controlling man. Most depictions I've seen of him are pretty similar to this, kinda goofy sadist with inferiority issues. But then it depends on the writer.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:07
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Yeah, Oswald is vicious, but he is usually in control as well. At the end of the episode, he kills a random fisherman just because.sbaldrick posted:Maybe Gotham is a prequel to Batman Begins, which makes more sense. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 20:38
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Baron Bifford posted:At the end of the episode, he kills a random fisherman just because.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:57
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It often feels like Batman writers don't know what to do with the Penguin so they just make him a cruel sadistic type. I don't like it much as a trend.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:30
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Baron Bifford posted:Yeah, Oswald is vicious, but he is usually in control as well. At the end of the episode, he kills a random fisherman just because. If I remember correctly, The Penguin tends to get more pointlessly violent the more his plans turn to poo poo. Considering that Fish Mooney broke his leg and was stuffed into the trunk of a for who knows how long then tossed into a cold icy river, I'd say that some bloody pointless murders are just what the audience needs.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:31
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Tiggum posted:
In a shocking twist, Bruce is going to go even more nuts and become a Juggalo.
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Oct 4, 2014 03:08
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Anything outside of Fish Mooney & Penguin didn't feel like much of a forward step for the 2nd episode but I'm giving a lot of rope here. I'm thinking that Selena/Cat is a framing device that is used each season if the series continues. One potential young villain as the 'watcher' of a part of the saga while another villain's criminal career is the center stage, learning from a mentor like The Fish/Penguin sub-plot.
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Oct 4, 2014 04:49
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I'm not sure why everyone gets so up in arms about Selena insisting on being called Cat. She's a teenage girl who really likes cats, the other homeless kids would know that because they all hang out together. It's not that weird that she took it as a nickname. Teenage girls are like that sometimes. Yeah, knowing what we know about her future it seems a little cheesy but it's not like it's coming out of nowhere, her love of cats could easily be from childhood. The Penguin thing is a little more tenuous but I'm excited to see if Oswald embraces it at some point during his rise to power or if in this universe it's always a way to push him into a murderous rage. I like him. He's trying so hard. Also I hope his mom shows up more because she's wonderful. I love oblivious parent characters. She thinks he's in a woman's clutches.  One thing I noticed in the second episode a few minutes ago was that the ridiculous bottomless pit in the room with the kidnapped children has noises coming out of it that I'm pretty sure were bats. Maybe the cave system is all over the drat place and we will get baby Bruce wandering around down there being a delinquent... or meddling with criminals... That would be magical. I love things that are entertaining and also stupid. chapstickie fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Oct 4, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 05:31
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chapstickie posted:I love things that are entertaining and also stupid. Camp is a beautiful thing.
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Oct 4, 2014 05:49
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Hope you all watched the first Episode of Nightwing, it's brutal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o297A1wmys0 It's fan made, kickstarter thing. ALready better than Gotham Rocksicles fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Oct 4, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 07:44
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I know it has been said a bunch already but god drat the shameless villain and character winking is out of control. I think ultimately that is DC's downfall with most of their movies and shows. They feel the need to shovel every bit of information down your throat as if they assume you know literally nothing about the universe. I find it annoying because if you know literally nothing about the universe then the reveal of a character as a villain would be just as good as regardless of how much name dropping you do, as long as it's a good story arc. For example, even though Game of Thrones has been out as books for ages, people who only watch the show still love the characters regardless of what they were predetermined to do. Hopefully they keep the winking under control as it goes further and that they only were doing it for the first few episodes as a cute nod to whats to come from the characters.
Windows 98 fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Oct 4, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 08:08
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