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Well, too bad. Crimea is Russian now and it's gonna be Russian whether you like it or not, and my taxes aren't going to go on useless planes to defend Switzerland from an Italian or Austrian invasion.ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:He's not trolling, though. He really believes in Glorious Mother Russia and all that horseshit. More like I find American sense of superiority towards Russians intolerable. But since we've seen how America behaves when no one is there to keep them in line, I prefer a stronger Russia. Another Iraq wouldn't happen today, and Americans whining about Crimea after the last 70 years of foreign policy are loving hypocrites. Cippalippus fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Oct 4, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 23:41
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Cippalippus posted:Well, too bad. Crimea is Russian now and it's gonna be Russian whether you like it or not, and my taxes aren't going to go on useless planes to defend Switzerland from an Italian or Austrian invasion. Of all the reasons to argue for or against something,  MY TAXES is literally the worst.
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Oct 4, 2014 23:46
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No it isn't. You lack imagination. (Besides which, you're ultimately saying we should never consider the financial cost of any public policy, which is obviously wrong)
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Oct 4, 2014 23:47
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Why? I prefer roads and schools to paying glorified, unproductive welfare queens.
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Oct 4, 2014 23:49
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Bruiser posted:I didn't know we still used B1's .. that's awesome. B1s are awesome and we're still doing really cool poo poo with the radar through upgrades...etc.
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Oct 4, 2014 23:49
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Somebody go and dig up Joseph McCarthy, there's work to be done in this thread.
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Oct 4, 2014 23:51
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Cippalippus posted:I voted no, yeah. I prefer to let the rest of Europe and USA pay for planes and tanks for wars that will never happen, while I enjoy low taxes and excellent public services. Had I been Swiss, I might very well have voted no myself.
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Oct 4, 2014 23:59
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Cippalippus posted:I prefer roads and schools to paying glorified, unproductive welfare queens. I prefer roads and schools that aren't paid for with Jewish dental fillings.
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Oct 5, 2014 00:01
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How in the gently caress is this building still standing with all those snipers inside? 
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Oct 5, 2014 00:51
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Cippalippus posted:Well, too bad. Crimea is Russian now and it's gonna be Russian whether you like it or not, and my taxes aren't going to go on useless planes to defend Switzerland from an Italian or Austrian invasion. Are you real?
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Oct 5, 2014 01:18
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bitcoin bastard posted:How in the gently caress is this building still standing with all those snipers inside? Reinforced concrete is one hell of a thing. And I assure you, Cippalippus is an actual person. Opinions like his aren't uncommon in Europe. To a certain extent I even agree with him. I'm not sure about the point of favoring a stronger Russia to keep the US in line though. All of the Cold War debacles sorta prove that doesn't really work, while Iraq and Afghanistan prove that a Russia that doesn't care doesn't really change the scene either. Only America can solve America's problems. As far as Switzerland goes, I really don't see the points on having an air force or even an army. If things go so bad as to need them, the EU will have collapsed and everything will be so incredibly hosed anyway that there's little point in trying to plan for such a scenario. For Sweden, being a lot closer to a country that might, sometime in perhaps not so distant future, suddenly decide it actually wants to use that military might it's been spending on, having the capabilities just so we don't have to build them again from scratch if we need them is probably still worth it. Military capabilities take a very long time to build, but political intentions can change overnight, and Russia isn't exactly the most stable of countries.
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Oct 5, 2014 01:35
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TheFluff posted:As far as Switzerland goes, I really don't see the points on having an air force or even an army. If things go so bad as to need them, the EU will have collapsed and everything will be so incredibly hosed anyway that there's little point in trying to plan for such a scenario. Because "Russia will have to overrun everyone else before they get to our doorstep, so everyone else can pay to deter them" is a lovely attitude that doesn't work if everyone does it.
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Oct 5, 2014 01:41
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Sperglord Actual posted:I prefer roads and schools that aren't paid for with Jewish dental fillings. Goddamn.
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Oct 5, 2014 01:43
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To get this back on an airpower track I spent the past week in Chicago for work. On more than one occasion I saw V-22 ospreys buzzing around and I would have to say the are quite impressive in flight.
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Oct 5, 2014 01:44
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Cippalippus posted:I prefer Russia to America, and besides that, your taxes, and military spending and Obama huffing and puffing... And yet, Crimea is Russian, and loving rightly so. But this isn't the thread for it, and this isn't about the quality of the plane either, but Switzerland and most countries of Europe don't need to spend a single franc/euro/dollar on defense since there is nothing to worry about. All joking aside, this IS my favorite post of 2014.
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Oct 5, 2014 02:02
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Cipp, can you go back to talking about banging nazi chicks again? Thanks.
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Oct 5, 2014 02:39
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xthetenth posted:Cipp, can you go back to talking about banging nazi chicks again? Thanks. "Cipp, longing for the better days that never actually happened, drags a well-aged and lightly bearded East German prostitute into his rusted BMP."
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Oct 5, 2014 02:54
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Cippalippus posted:I prefer Russia to America, and besides that, your taxes, and military spending and Obama huffing and puffing... And yet, Crimea is Russian, and loving rightly so. But this isn't the thread for it, and this isn't about the quality of the plane either, but Switzerland and most countries of Europe don't need to spend a single franc/euro/dollar on defense since there is nothing to worry about. Am I having a stroke or did someone just post the best lol of all time?
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Oct 5, 2014 03:44
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I would like to know more! Is there a newsletter I can subscribe to?
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Oct 5, 2014 03:50
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Sperglord Actual posted:I prefer roads and schools that aren't paid for with Jewish dental fillings. 
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Oct 5, 2014 05:44
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priznat posted:I would like to know more! Imagine I wasn't phone posting and responded with a link to D&D
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Oct 5, 2014 06:06
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Snowdens Secret posted:Imagine I wasn't phone posting and responded with a link to D&D Yeah it was like there was a convoy of white trucks from D&D/LF into this thread labelled "humanitarian supplies" 
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Oct 5, 2014 06:53
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Oh that reminds me, humanitarian supplies for Priznat   e: so this post isn't substantively contentless, here's some week-ish old Canadian defense news: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-s-navy-looks-to-fill-fleet-gap-with-purchase-from-u-s-1.2775533 quote:The Royal Canadian Navy may purchase a soon-to-be retired ship from the U.S. to replace its two supply vessels forced into retirement, since a Canadian government ship-building program has been delayed by several years, CBC News has learned. I stumbled across this today, basically the gist is that both the USN and RCN are broke as gently caress, the US can't afford to keep running its fast fleet oilers and Canada can't afford to fix its broke-rear end boats. So Canada buys the still-functional oilers from the US and they don't go completely to waste. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 07:10
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Dead Reckoning posted:Because "Russia will have to overrun everyone else before they get to our doorstep, so everyone else can pay to deter them" is a lovely attitude that doesn't work if everyone does it. I don't think it will happen and don't want to pay a single franc for the armed forces. But you're free to buy into your own propaganda and believe that the Russians are warmongering barbarians and prepare for it. Why would I worry? In case you're right, you're still the one who will fight for me.
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Oct 5, 2014 08:31
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Cippalippus posted:In case you're right, you're still the one who will fight for me. Why would we fight for you?
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Oct 5, 2014 08:37
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Mortabis posted:I stumbled across this today, basically the gist is that both the USN and RCN are broke as gently caress, the US can't afford to keep running its fast fleet oilers and Canada can't afford to fix its broke-rear end boats. So Canada buys the still-functional oilers from the US and they don't go completely to waste. Oh lord the ship procurement here is another loving gong show. The shipyard chosen to build the replacement supply ships (Berlin-class) is no where near ready or possibly even capable to make them. Should be fun! If all goes well we'll be stacked with oilers, could be the USN's gas station for one of the fleets.
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Oct 5, 2014 08:41
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priznat posted:Yeah it was like there was a convoy of white trucks from D&D/LF into this thread labelled "humanitarian supplies" Actually the D&D Eastern Europe thread has been pretty unsympathetic to pro-Russian viewpoints.
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Oct 5, 2014 14:39
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The EU should require protection money from Switzerland. Let the Swiss dismantle their army, and pay their defense budget as tribute to the EU. After all it's already France and Italy that fill the roll of sky cop for the Swiss.
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Oct 5, 2014 14:42
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Cippalippus posted:I prefer Russia to America, and besides that, your taxes, and military spending and Obama huffing and puffing... And yet, Crimea is Russian, and loving rightly so. But this isn't the thread for it, and this isn't about the quality of the plane either, but Switzerland and most countries of Europe don't need to spend a single franc/euro/dollar on defense since there is nothing to worry about. This is my favorite post ever.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:26
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Cat Mattress posted:The EU should require protection money from Switzerland. Let the Swiss dismantle their army, and pay their defense budget as tribute to the EU. Yeah, what's the point of having an air force only during office hours? Dismiss the thing and be done with it.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:43
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Cippalippus posted:Yeah, what's the point of having an air force only during office hours? Dismiss the thing and be done with it. Indeed
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Oct 5, 2014 15:50
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Cippalippus posted:I don't think it will happen and don't want to pay a single franc for the armed forces. But you're free to buy into your own propaganda and believe that the Russians are warmongering barbarians and prepare for it. Why would I worry? In case you're right, you're still the one who will fight for me. I'm curious, how old are you?
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Oct 5, 2014 17:49
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Cippalippus posted:Yeah, what's the point of having an air force only during office hours? Dismiss the thing and be done with it. Tell me more.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:49
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Today is the 100th anniversary of the first air-to-air combat. On October 5, 1914, Sgt. Frantz and Cpl. Queneault of the French Air Force, flying a Voisin III. After bombing German positions (by tossing shells by hand), they see a German plane, an Aviatik BII, and start chasing it. The German plane, flown by Sgt. Schlichting and Oberlt. Fritz von Zangen, tries to fend off the French biplane with a shotgun, but the French team shoots the German plane until their tripod-mounted Hotchkiss machinegun jams. Damaged, the German plane dives in a death spiral, and the crash kills both its crew. AIRPOWER: World War 1 Edition Relatedly, and more Cold Warringly, it will soon (October 8th) be the 50th anniversary of the French Strategic Air Force (read: nuke-capable fighter squadrons). To celebrate, they will fly a KC-135FR, a Mirage 2000N, and a Rafale B in a special anniversary livery. I found some pics on a French blog.    
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Oct 5, 2014 18:47
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Cat Mattress posted:Today is the 100th anniversary of the first air-to-air combat. Depends on how you define it. There were a few early attempts to intercept enemy aircraft in the Mexican Revolution, but as the pilots on both sides were American mercenaries the "battles" were purportedly rigged affairs where they purposefully missed. Given the use of airplanes in the first and second balkan wars I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few instances there of people taking potshots with rifles etc.
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Oct 5, 2014 19:19
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Cippalippus posted:But you're free to buy into your own propaganda and believe that the Russians are warmongering barbarians Will Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan stand up, please?
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Oct 5, 2014 19:36
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Sperglord Actual posted:Will Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan stand up, please? You forgot Romania.
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Oct 5, 2014 19:55
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Sperglord Actual posted:Will Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan stand up, please? Guys, those are all rightfully Russian.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:19
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Sperglord Actual posted:Will Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan stand up, please? That's a pretty short list of old crap that pales in comparison to the more recent bullshit that the USA has pulled on the world. Basically if you think that after Iraq you are going to feel superior to Russia, boyo, you're going to be hit with a sore disappointment. American sanctions in fact are a blessing for us since we give no fucks about them and are strengthening our relationship with Russia. Anyway, and to the point, the countries you listed didn't have anything to do with Russia, but with the Soviet Union, which at the time was ruled by a Georgian. Putin got you covered on that and evened the score.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:19
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Mortabis posted:You forgot Romania. Bulgaria too. Arguably E. Germany, if we count the June Uprising of 1953 as a Soviet anti-democratic crackdown. But then it's not like the US is exactly clean when it comes to medlding in the foreign policy of others. We've got a whole doctrine plus corollary that taken together boil down to "no one ever gets to gently caress around in the western hemisphere but us, and we get to stick our noses into the domestic affairs of any other government in the Americas." And then we should probably just politely not talk about anything the CIA has ever done and we should really avoid looking too closely at US foreign policy from Truman -> Reagan.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:25
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