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Cippalippus posted:That's a pretty short list of old crap that pales in comparison to the more recent bullshit that the USA has pulled on the world. I feel superior to Russia every time I walk down the street and I don't get attacked by a pack of wild dogs.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:26
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intresting article on USSR bioweapons programs: http://www.oie.int/doc/ged/D3266.PDF i'll just leave this little gem out here since it's topical I.V. Domaradskij & W. Orent posted:In conclusion, it should be noted that living standards in Russia remain low, and the overwhelming majority of scientists have a miserable existence.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:28
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Cyrano4747 posted:Bulgaria too. Arguably E. Germany, if we count the June Uprising of 1953 as a Soviet anti-democratic crackdown. There's a pretty god drat huge difference in kind between what the Russians did in the Baltics and Poland etc. versus anything we did in the Cold War. There's no moral equivalency here. We might not have clean hands, but they're a drat sight cleaner than the Russians'. Cippalippus posted:That's a pretty short list of old crap that pales in comparison to the more recent bullshit that the USA has pulled on the world. If you'd like something recent, besides the obvious Ukraine example, we could happily point you to Chechnya, Georgia, and all of the frozen conflicts in post-Soviet states like Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh. VVVVV The policy of invading neighboring countries to keep them from adopting the free market is even called the "Brezhnev Doctrine." Mortabis fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 20:36
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Cippalippus posted:Anyway, and to the point, the countries you listed didn't have anything to do with Russia, but with the Soviet Union, which at the time was ruled by a Georgian. Putin got you covered on that and evened the score. Unless Joseph Stalin is an immortal zombie, I'm pretty sure his Georgian rear end wasn't alive (or even ruling) past 1953. History is hard...so is a 10 second wikipedia search.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:38
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Mortabis posted:There's a pretty god drat huge difference in kind between what the Russians did in the Baltics and Poland etc. versus anything we did in the Cold War. There's no moral equivalency here. We might not have clean hands, but they're a drat sight cleaner than the Russians'. I'm not arguing for a moral equivalency (as if such a thing can even exist), I'm just saying that neither side really comes out of the last 70 years with a great moral high ground to operate from. If you really want to draw some kind of line between the US and the Russians in that period, I suppose it would be that while the Russians did their violent repressing personally we enabled others to do it for us, and frequently encouraged it rather emphatically. The US was directly responsible for establishing and propping up a lot of really lovely governments that did some really lovely things in the name of quashing "communist conspiracies and uprisings." Just start with the Bodo League Massacres and move forward from there up through all of the CIA supported anti-communist activities in Latin and South America. edit: not to mention how much of it was really puerile self-enrichment. Look up the brothers Dulles and the relationship between Guatemala, The US State Department, the CIA, and the United Fruit Company. edit x3: don't even get me started on the US in Africa. The fact that every US president from Johnson to Bush Sr. glad handed with Mobotu Sese Seko is pretty inexcusable. quote:VVVVV The policy of invading neighboring countries to keep them from adopting the free market is even called the "Brezhnev Doctrine." If you want to start pulling doctrines out I'll match your Brezhnev Doctrine with the Truman Doctrine that pre-dates it and Containment Policy in general. edit x2: before anyone gets their panties into too much of a knot, I do agree that Cip has a uniquely misguided reading of history and his posting is some of the funniest stuff I've read in TFR in a while. The way the Russians (INCLUDING the Soviet Period - there really isn't any arguing that Russia wasn't the dominant political power in that union) have historically treated those they consider in their "natural sphere of influence" isn't exactly something to be celebrated. Things like the Holodomor and Baigais Gads are really loving ugly and dark stains and it's very understandable why countries that suffered through events like those in living memory wouldn't be too eager to suck up to Putin today. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 20:56
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Moral high ground or not, i reckon there's some difference between killing folks for democracy, free market economy and waitresses in hotpants VS killing folks to turn the world into a humorless concrete plan economy where the masses live on cabbage soup and fear. edit: also this LingcodKilla posted:I feel superior to Russia every time I walk down the street and I don't get attacked by a pack of wild dogs 666 fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 21:08
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Chill Doomhate fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2014 21:21
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Me, I feel superior to Russia every time I look at a 1903 then look at a Mosin. Or every time I look at a Garand, then look at a slightly newer Mosin.
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Oct 5, 2014 21:32
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For his next trick, forums poster Cippalippus will demonstrate that the Third Reich was governed from Vienna.
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Oct 5, 2014 21:38
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ChillRoommates posted:Correction: I feel superior to Russia every time I walk into the subway and I don't get attacked by a pack of wild dogs. All joking aside, that's pretty amazing and those dogs seem more chill than some human riders. I don't think I'd get anywhere in Moscow on foot, I'd be stopping to pet doggies all day long, then probably come down with some sort of disease.
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Oct 5, 2014 21:41
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LingcodKilla posted:I feel superior to Russia every time I walk down the street and I don't get attacked by a pack of wild dogs. Huh I feel superior to Russia every time I go on a date with my partner and we don't get beaten half to death by Neo Nazis.
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Oct 5, 2014 21:46
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Dunno guys, neutrality has worked out pretty well for us, but you're free to send your sons to die in another continent if you feel like it. I'm sure that you're much safer for that. Excuse me while I enjoy my much higher standards of living, education and public safety while you dig deep in twentieth century history to justify your terrible services and public health records to finance wars that you keep losing. It's amazing how idiots are still scared by Russians, who really couldn't give two fucks about what Americans think or want to do. American Society is paranoid and this thread, which is quite excellent when about the cold war, delves into McCarthy Era levels of idiocy when it's about current events. Edit Mortabis posted:We might not have clean hands, but they're a drat sight cleaner than the Russians'. Cippalippus fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 21:51
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Just remember, tomorrow's ruble will not be worth as much as yesterday's reichsmark.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:04
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I think you are mistaking amusement and disdain for threatened. Only reason anyone worries about Russia is its nuclear stock pile. As for the Swiss or whatever little country you are from, nobody gives a gently caress about you otherwise you would have been already absorbed by bigger neighbors. Beings being the home for a large poorly regulated banking system doesn't exactly make your hands clean from the worlds wrongs. Whole lot of pilfered blood money in those vaults... Why don't you treat your Muslims a little better while we have your attention. I hear you haven't been too nice to them with the turrets and stuff.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:05
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I wonder what Pussy Riot thinks re: the US being worse than Russia.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:07
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Can someone make a new smiley to tell these loving annoying D&D refugees to go back? Have more newbies or people interested in military stuff would be nice, but these loving D&D rejects are just annoying as loving hell.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:08
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Chill Doomhate fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2014 22:12
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Cyrano4747 posted:I'm not arguing for a moral equivalency (as if such a thing can even exist), I'm just saying that neither side really comes out of the last 70 years with a great moral high ground to operate from. If you really want to draw some kind of line between the US and the Russians in that period, I suppose it would be that while the Russians did their violent repressing personally we enabled others to do it for us, and frequently encouraged it rather emphatically. The US was directly responsible for establishing and propping up a lot of really lovely governments that did some really lovely things in the name of quashing "communist conspiracies and uprisings." Yeah, the US has done some loving heinous poo poo in the Americas, both actively and passively. It was always funny when people would sign up for classes by one of the more popular History professors, knowing he'd worked for the CIA and had a good relationship with the ROTC program only to find out that precisely because of how much he'd worked with the CIA, he knew what miserable pricks we had been.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:13
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LingcodKilla posted:I think you are mistaking amusement and disdain for threatened. Only reason anyone worries about Russia is its nuclear stock pile. As for the Swiss or whatever little country you are from, nobody gives a gently caress about you otherwise you would have been already absorbed by bigger neighbors. Beings being the home for a large poorly regulated banking system doesn't exactly make your hands clean from the worlds wrongs. Whole lot of pilfered blood money in those vaults... About our Muslim minority, nobody forced them to come here and certainly nothing forces them to stay here if they don't like it. We had a referendum about minarets, if that's what you're talking about, and we decided that minarets have no place in Switzerland. Don't like it? We don't care.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:14
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Cippalippus posted:The banking system is extremely well regulated to help the people who don't want to pay the taxes in their own countries. It serves us, not you, just like everything else we do, including not spending money on stupid poo poo like fighter jets, is about serving us and not you. There it is. 
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Oct 5, 2014 22:15
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Kill all subhumans my goon dude
Chill Doomhate fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2014 22:16
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ChillRoommates posted:As they say: you can't be neutral on a moving train. You can if you're doing business with the people who make it run on time. 
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Oct 5, 2014 22:16
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Jesus christ, how old are you kid? I'm betting nearing the end of high school or beginning college.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:18
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Cippalippus posted:That's a pretty short list of old crap that pales in comparison to the more recent bullshit that the USA has pulled on the world. Never stop posting. Edit: It gets better with every new page. Godholio fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 22:19
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Cippalippus posted:The banking system is extremely well regulated to help the people who don't want to pay the taxes in their own countries. It serves us, not you, just like everything else we do, including not spending money on stupid poo poo like fighter jets, is about serving us and not you. Hahaha, dude is more mad about Muslims ruining his hometown than bumfuck towns in backwoods Kentucky.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:19
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Mike-o posted:Jesus christ, how old are you kid? I'm betting nearing the end of high school or beginning college. Hey, I never expressed or saw that sort of sentiment in high school or college! I thought Cippalippus' viewpoint was based on well intentioned but badly thought through pacifism, but where did that come from?!
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Oct 5, 2014 22:21
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Mike-o posted:Jesus christ, how old are you kid? I'm betting nearing the end of high school or beginning college. Wanna bet he's trying desperately to shirk national service, too?
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Oct 5, 2014 22:21
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Cippalippus posted:The banking system is extremely well regulated to help the people who don't want to pay the taxes in their own countries. It serves us, not you, just like everything else we do, including not spending money on stupid poo poo like fighter jets, is about serving us and not you. On one hand, don't stop being a terrible and hilarious poster, but on the other, get the gently caress out of the awesome airpower thread.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:22
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Huh I feel superior to Russia every time I go on a date with my partner and we don't get beaten half to death by Neo Nazis. I feel superior to Russia every day I'm still not dead from chronic alcoholism.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:22
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Davin Valkri posted:Hey, I never expressed or saw that sir of sentiment in high school or college! I thought Cippalippus' viewpoint was based on well intentioned but badly thought through pacifism, but where did that come from?! You dig deep enough and holier-than-thou Europeans readily show their deeply held racism and xenophobia.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:22
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Ka loving boom.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:23
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hogmartin posted:On one hand, don't stop being a terrible and hilarious poster, but on the other, get the gently caress out of the awesome airpower thread. Have a Rafale to calm your nerves: 
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Oct 5, 2014 22:24
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:You dig deep enough and holier-than-thou Europeans readily show their deeply held racism and xenophobia. I don't think that one really required any digging 
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Oct 5, 2014 22:24
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Cippalippus posted:The banking system is extremely well regulated to help the people who don't want to pay the taxes in their own countries. It serves us, not you, just like everything else we do, including not spending money on stupid poo poo like fighter jets, is about serving us and not you. Suddenly I understand why you're so sympathetic to Russia. Do you ever long for the good old days when you could pack off pesky minorities in boxcars to Kazakhstan?
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Oct 5, 2014 22:24
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mlmp08 posted:Have a Rafale to calm your nerves: Thanks, buddy, I needed one.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:25
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I picked the perfect day to start reading this thread. 
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Oct 5, 2014 22:26
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hogmartin posted:On one hand, don't stop being a terrible and hilarious poster, but on the other, get the gently caress out of the awesome airpower thread. You're right, debating with Americans isn't very fruitless, albeit it's quite funny. Sorry for the derail.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:27
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Cippalippus posted:You're right, debating with Americans isn't very fruitless, albeit it's quite funny. Sorry for the derail.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:28
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Cippalippus posted:You're right, debating with Americans isn't very fruitless, albeit it's quite funny. Sorry for the derail. lol americans srsly amirite? lol
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Oct 5, 2014 22:30
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:You dig deep enough and holier-than-thou Europeans readily show their deeply held racism and xenophobia. Im a smug euro and am very cool qith muslims.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:30
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