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Entropic posted:I think we're really feeling the lack of Doom Blade / Ultimate Price right now. If you want unconditional removal it costs 3 color-intensive mana now, and that's a huge difference from 1B. That and Supreme Verdict obviously. Bumping up how much 1-for-1 removal and board wipes cost by 1 mana makes a ton of difference to how the first 5 turns plays out in any given matchup. It's no Doom Blade but there is Murderous Cut.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:34
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Madmarker posted:Yeah, aggro is done for now, I mean everything is a midrange deck of one variety or another at this point, since creatures are awesome and removal sucks. If removal was better, there would be more pressure to play a low cost aggro deck, since answering those threats 1-for-1 is a losing proposition. Personally, I am a control player at heart, as in elixir.dec, I am hopeful that the protour comes up with some awesome UW control build I can crib from, or at the very least an awesome Sultai build. I dunno, this control list looks promising as a starting point. Also Andrea Mengucci is a CFB Contributor and his strategic content seems pretty solid so I dunno. Zoness fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 19:35
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Sickening posted:The mardu "play good stuff" deck is pretty expensive and was something I was putting together when khans was being spoiled until the jeskai build came around. I would probably be playing Jeskai if it didn't have Steam Augury in it lol.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:36
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Chill la Chill posted:You've just described the thragtusk-angel standard from a couple years ago. This is what happens when wizards only wants good creatures that aren't easily killed. And yet they will do so because of the feel bad of counters and kill spells. I agree that's partly it. here is development's manifesto on the balancing the pillars of ETB creatures vs Hexproof vs Wrath vs Conditional/Unconditional targeted removal. What good creatures can't be easily killed? I mean we do have a shittier wrath, we do have cut, we do have downfall and anger. Eventually people will start disdainful stroking siege rhinos, they have to.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:36
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:36 creature decks, devoting out hydras for 10+, 8+ 5cmc Sarkhan/Dragon decks, main deck Doomwake Giants... funny enough, blue isn't very good against genesis hydra. Doesn't matter if you counter the hydra or not, I'll get the other card in play. If some blue control becomes good, it will probably just lead to GR monsters going to Temur. Surak and Stoic Rebuttal are read to smash blue, in addition to good ol' green fireball mistcutter hydra.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:38
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Zoness posted:I dunno, this control list looks promising as a starting point. That is not a bad list, and is a good starting point for me.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:39
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mcmagic posted:I would probably be playing Jeskai if it didn't have Steam Augury in it lol. The only one deck jeskai deck posted from the SCG IQ actually ran it and it was an exact copy from the open decklist. Nobody else I have came across runs it.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:45
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Sickening posted:The only one deck jeskai deck posted from the SCG IQ actually ran it and it was an exact copy from the open decklist. Nobody else I have came across runs it. Yeah I was kinda joking about that. I still want to see how RW does for me for another week or so then i can try out Jeskai/Whatever looks good from the pro tour. I do like the idea of just playing Anger of the Gods and tons of white removal though so I'm not sure if I'll ever go full on tempo.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:47
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Sickening posted:The mardu "play good stuff" deck is pretty expensive and was something I was putting together when khans was being spoiled until the jeskai build came around. Yeah, I finally relented and started using perfect fits for the first time because I'm playing this deck and realized the other day it's actually more expensive than Esper Control was when Theros came out. Luckily, I had most of the the expensive cards already from last Standard. Edit: Speaking of the Mardu Midrange/Control list, after a lot of testing I've come to the conclusion that Brimaz is not great right now in this format. It's fine against aggro decks, but against any green midrange deck it's nearly useless. Basically not big enough to fight through most of their threats, and even Courser is good enough of a blocker to slow Brimaz to a crawl. I'm taking them all out of my deck and playing 2 Ashcloud and 1 Elspeth instead, both cards are great right now. qbert fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 19:50
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Rinkles posted:It's no Doom Blade but there is Murderous Cut. There is, but it doesn't quite have the same flexibility. You really can't reliably cast Murderous Cut on turn 2 in this format, and even turn 3 is pretty shaky. If Doom Blade was in standard right now, it would be a better removal option than Murderous Cut is at the moment. Unless Mono-black aggro actually becomes a thing, the only real targets Doom Blade would miss right now are Siege Rhino and Butcher. And color restriction aside, I'd take "always 2 mana" over "sometimes as little as one mana but then the next one costs 4 and usually somewhere around 2 to 4 but who knows" any day.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:53
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mr. mephistopheles posted:So I've come back to MTGO after quitting slightly before Theros and holy poo poo the new client is still so slow. That's the only way to play now, right?
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Oct 7, 2014 19:56
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jassi007 posted:funny enough, blue isn't very good against genesis hydra. Doesn't matter if you counter the hydra or not, I'll get the other card in play. If some blue control becomes good, it will probably just lead to GR monsters going to Temur. Surak and Stoic Rebuttal are read to smash blue, in addition to good ol' green fireball mistcutter hydra. When did we start talking about Modern? You've got Tron on the brain.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:58
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He means Stubborn Denial. I feel like this metagame can go lots of places from where it is. Interesting to see the usual predicted paradigm of 'all aggro, no control' transition into 'all midrange, also midrange' though.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:02
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Spiderdrake posted:He means Stubborn Denial. I know what he meant.  Dear Wizards, give Standard a decent Combo deck to play.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:13
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Spiderdrake posted:He means Stubborn Denial. Well when you make a set that's basically focused on Junk as an archtype- Seriously, it was obvious from the start they were pushing Junk as the de facto standard meta and wanted to see how other things worked around it. With Carytid and Courser already in the format, they printed Siege Rhino, a decision that they knew for a fact would set the standard for the meta. This was a conscious decision by wizards to have Junk Midrange be the starting point that everything else would be compared to and have to be able to compete with. The fact that they have carefully avoided printing any true control cards for a while now should say something as well, since typically control is the answer to a heavy midrange meta but that's not a very attractive option at the moment. So instead of Aggro > Control > Midrange > Aggro, we have Midrange Tempo == Midrange Tempo, your current standard meta. To be honest I see this as one of the most heavily dev-sculped meta decisions outside of (you guessed it) Thragtusk/Angel and I guess maybe the titan cycle. It's currently a lot more interactive than something like Primetime/Valakut but it's very restrictive. There aren't even any good fogs in the format 
I Love You! fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 20:15
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Cernunnos posted:When did we start talking about Modern? You've got Tron on the brain. hehe, loving synonym card names.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:19
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I want to share the most satisfying play I've gotten to make in my MTG tenure. I was in the Legacy Challenge last Friday playing Miracles against BUG Delver Game 1. Turn 3 I am tapped down for all but one land, having used one mana for an upkeep Top activation (needed to draw land) and then a main phase Ponder for the shuffle, pass turn. Opponent windmills a Tropical Island and slams a True-Name Nemesis, having seen my hand with a Thoughtseize so he knew all but one card in my hand and knowing I had no Force of Will. I had a few options, but I had a Terminus and Brainstorm in hand, so the plan was to cast the latter, put Terminus back second from the top, then draw it off the Top on his next turn. Well, he thought I was digging for the Force, so after some hesitation, he returned the Trop to his hand to cast Daze targeting Brainstorm. My reaction:  Cast Misdirection discarding one of the two Counterbalance in hand. Change target of Daze to his own True-Name Nemesis. It is countered, my Brainstorm resolves, and he loses a land drop from the Daze to boot. I put that one Misdirection into the main mostly because of Abrupt Decay (I can't counter it, but I can Misdirect it to their own Jitte or Hierarch or Delver or even their own TNN since THEY control the spell doing the targeting), but drat that was insane value for zero mana. My opponent was initially confused and needed clarification on Misdirection to confirm what I did was Kosher. It was, and he extended the hand and said, "poo poo, I can't even be mad, that was loving nuts, dude. Well played."
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Oct 7, 2014 20:25
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 epic play for all the value!
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Oct 7, 2014 20:29
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meanolmrcloud posted:Just putting it out there that there is a really good chance that Treasure Cruise is going to get banned in the eternal formats. I judged a 46-player Vintage tournament where the first prize was a Lotus on Saturday. The players there during/after the event were debating whether Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time were the more broken cards in Vintage. Both of them saw a ton of play all the way up to the top tables. Only one deck in the top 8 was playing Treasure Cruise and another sole deck was playing Dig Through Time, so it wasn't like it was overpowering or anything. I think someone was also playing Monastery Swiftspear in their Delver deck. I could see Treasure Cruise getting restricted in Vintage just because it's a "one mana" draw spell. If the banned & restricted list is made by someone without a crystal clear understanding of Vintage, then it'll get restricted. I don't know anything about Legacy to say whether it'll get banned there though. LifeLynx fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 20:30
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Poor man's force getting it in. My most  moment recently was answering a Army of the Damned with a Decree of Pain the next turn in EDH. It's a grixis deck that draws tons of cards to begin with, so I had no maximum hand size.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:57
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I know it's not their primary focus, but I wonder how much Wizards tested Treasure Cruise in eternal formats prior to setting the final mana cost and how much they wish they could bump it up to 9U or 10U now - and I can't even tell if that would make much of a difference.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:40
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I know it's not their primary focus, but I wonder how much Wizards tested Treasure Cruise in eternal formats prior to setting the final mana cost and how much they wish they could bump it up to 9U or 10U now - and I can't even tell if that would make much of a difference. Did you play Standard during Odyssey?
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Oct 7, 2014 21:42
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I know it's not their primary focus, but I wonder how much Wizards tested Treasure Cruise in eternal formats prior to setting the final mana cost and how much they wish they could bump it up to 9U or 10U now - and I can't even tell if that would make much of a difference. Wizards doesn't actively test anything other than limited and standard last I heard.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:43
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I know it's not their primary focus, but I wonder how much Wizards tested Treasure Cruise in eternal formats prior to setting the final mana cost and how much they wish they could bump it up to 9U or 10U now - and I can't even tell if that would make much of a difference. MaRo has said that there's a reason it's a sorcery and not an instant like Ancestral Recall, hinting that it was too powerful during testing to make it an instant.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:48
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Toshimo posted:Did you play Standard during Odyssey? No, why?
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Oct 7, 2014 21:58
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I really don't get why anyone cares about burger guy? Giving out free burgers to a bunch of fatties with no self control is dumb, good on that guy.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:09
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What happens if I chord for a Mistcutter Hydra? Can I choose 5 and cast the Hydra for that amount? Similarly, if I Genesis Hydra for 5 into another Genesis Hydra, can I cast that one for 4 and Hydra again?
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Oct 7, 2014 22:11
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Sharzak posted:What happens if I chord for a Mistcutter Hydra? Can I choose 5 and cast the Hydra for that amount? Similarly, if I Genesis Hydra for 5 into another Genesis Hydra, can I cast that one for 4 and Hydra again? No in both cases. They are x = 0 and they die.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:11
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Sharzak posted:What happens if I chord for a Mistcutter Hydra? Can I choose 5 and cast the Hydra for that amount? Similarly, if I Genesis Hydra for 5 into another Genesis Hydra, can I cast that one for 4 and Hydra again?
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Oct 7, 2014 22:12
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Cernunnos posted:I know what he meant. Dear Cernunnos, Jeskai Ascendancy.  Love, Wizards.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:14
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field balm posted:I really don't get why anyone cares about burger guy? Giving out free burgers to a bunch of fatties with no self control is dumb, good on that guy.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:23
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I know it's not their primary focus, but I wonder how much Wizards tested Treasure Cruise in eternal formats prior to setting the final mana cost and how much they wish they could bump it up to 9U or 10U now - and I can't even tell if that would make much of a difference. I think the way Wizards sees it is that Eternal formats can handle new, influential cards, and if they can't, well, that's what the B&R lists are for.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:26
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man reading the MTGS (I know, big mistake) banlist discussion about ascendancy its loving hilarious how much some players turn into giant loving babies at the mere prospect of combo.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:33
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Chill la Chill posted:
Misdirection gets there. In LSV's recent CF video about Grixis control in Vintage, his opponent Yawg Willed. In response he cast FoF to dig for a counter. His opponent Forced his FoF, and he Misdirected the Force onto Will. It was the most insane value play I've ever seen.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:42
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Reminder that Vintage Masters is leaving MTGO tomorrow, both events and packs.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:47
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Misdirection gets there. In LSV's recent CF video about Grixis control in Vintage, his opponent Yawg Willed. In response he cast FoF to dig for a counter. His opponent Forced his FoF, and he Misdirected the Force onto Will. It was the most insane value play I've ever seen. To be fair, his opponent arguably misplayed by FoWing the FoF instead of the Misdirection, but he probably didn't see how the Misdirection was being resolved, since the most obvious interaction would be to redirect the FoW to Misdirection, which is normally how Misdirection counters a spell. This and redirecting Ancestral are basically the nut high of Misdirection.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:53
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Zoness posted:To be fair, his opponent arguably misplayed by FoWing the FoF instead of the Misdirection, but he probably didn't see how the Misdirection was being resolved, since the most obvious interaction would be to redirect the FoW to Misdirection, which is normally how Misdirection counters a spell. Yeah I got to redirect three different Ancestral Visions in the event (I have more in the side for that matchup). It was awesome.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:56
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Zoness posted:To be fair, his opponent arguably misplayed by FoWing the FoF instead of the Misdirection, but he probably didn't see how the Misdirection was being resolved, since the most obvious interaction would be to redirect the FoW to Misdirection, which is normally how Misdirection counters a spell. If I read that right, the YawgWin and FoF were on the stack when the opponent Forced FoF, and then LSV had the Misdirection. The most backbreaking play I've seen with Misdirection was Recall, Recall in response, Misdirection the second Recall in response, Misdirection the Misdirection for a net of 6 cards.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:59
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:If I read that right, the YawgWin and FoF were on the stack when the opponent Forced FoF, and then LSV had the Misdirection. The most backbreaking play I've seen with Misdirection was Recall, Recall in response, Misdirection the second Recall in response, Misdirection the Misdirection for a net of 6 cards. Right, I meant the misplay was letting Misdirection resolve and then casting a FoW - the exact sequence was opponent resolves fastbonds and gushes Opponent casts Yawg's Will LSV: spins top, resolves a spin, then spins top again cracks fetch resolves fetch cracks lotus casts FoF Opponent casts FoW targetting FoF LSV casts Misdirection on FoW changing its target to Will Misdirection resolves Opponent casts a second FoW targetting FoF Second FoW Resolves First FoW Resolves LSV resolves his spin
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Oct 7, 2014 23:17
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field balm posted:I really don't get why anyone cares about burger guy? Giving out free burgers to a bunch of fatties with no self control is dumb, good on that guy. My main beef with the situation is that only taking two burgers when there are infinite burgers available is literally leaving value on the table
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Oct 7, 2014 23:44
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