|
Salt Fish posted:You gotta get real. There are dozens, soon to be hundreds, of people dying a day of this disease. quote:Investing in an isolation space and medical supervision for a dog is completely unrealistic. quote:Spain might have mishandled some aspects of the containment but that doesn't justify mishandling another. quote:If you want to shed tears then you should think of the soon to be diseased, displaced, starving, and otherwise dying Liberians who are going to be lost by the tens of thousands before this is over. My opposition to killing this dog is two fold, first of all it's inhumane unless we know the dog is sick, second and most important it will backfire hard. You can't just ignore the psychology of people an not expect to reap a whirlwind of poo poo. It's as pointless to try to convince an European that their beloved pets must be killed without bothering to confirm they are infected as trying to convince a Liberian not to follow traditional funeral rites despite the danger. It might come to that if things get Black Plague bad but antagonizing people by treating their pets like so much soiled linen will be incredible counter productive if your goal is to contain the epidemic before it gets that far. For fucks sake you have people foaming at the mouth whenever some pitbull is put down because it ripped the throats of a bus full of children, what do you think will happen if the government starts killing pets as a standard procedure without the slightest effort to confirm they are infectious? Do you really believe people will just hand over their pets to be sent to the ovens? If they kill this dog we better loving hope dogs are not infectious otherwise this poo poo would spiral out of control in no time. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Oct 8, 2014 |
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 08:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:54 |
|
|
Googled dog/Ebola question and I find nothing solid -just speculation and fluff. nobody seems to know for sure unless they've been eating human carrion. link: http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/10/dogs-eating-ebola-victims-spreading-epidemic/ this is from WND so take with a grain of salt, but it has some CDC info. better link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15757552 "Thus, dogs appear to be the first animal species shown to be naturally and asymptomatically infected by Ebola virus. Asymptomatic Ebola infection in humans has also been observed during outbreaks (18) but is very rare. Although dogs can be asymptomatically infected, they may excrete infectious viral particles in urine, feces, and saliva for a short period before virus clearance, as observed experimentally in other animals." asymptomatically infected + don't die = Typhoid Mary effect among dogs. So if a victim holes up and dies and their dog eats them out of starvation then yah, kill the dog. ... If culling house-pets makes people even a little bit less likely to report, it could worsen this outbreak. I know several people that love their pets more than any human-they are emotionally their children. And, fellow Goons, they will probably kill all the kitties too. and hamsters, parakeets etc. It's the only way to be sure. zimboe fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Oct 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 08:59
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:My Spanish is 30 years rusty, so bear that in mind. Here are some of the most important bits. La Paz is the name of a hospital in Madrid. Last year, Carlos III Hospital became part of La Paz and some of it's workers have denounced they have worse conditions and equipment since then.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:10
|
|
|
Not much time left before the contacts in the Dallas case start hitting the timeframe where people usually go symptomatic, right? Gotta be a lot of anxiety building up at every major health agency in the States. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Oct 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:15
|
|
|
Take the crying about a single dog to a facebook petition, this is a thread about a straight up apocalyptic plague that could kill millions of people. It's loving insulting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
MSF is complaining that the reduced number of flights to and from west africa are hampering their ability to provide aid: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/british-airways-hampering-ebola-aid-effort-west-africa-agencies
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
Gantolandon posted:If more people gets infected, this means their pets are also exposed. This is a serious health risk and should be investigated now while there is still a chance to do it, instead of killing the dog just to prove our commitment to the cause and respect for the people of Liberia. But no matter the result it's still an n of one. Quarantine and test wouldn't be hard, but let's not pretend it could give us any useful information. You'd have to run large controlled studies anyway no matter the result in this one case.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:24
|
|
|
zimboe posted:Googled dog/Ebola question and I find nothing solid -just speculation and fluff. nobody seems to know for sure unless they've been eating human carrion. Gotta show Ebola that taking hostages doesn't pay. This government will not negotiate with terrorists!
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:24
|
|
|
AA is for Quitters posted:Sierra Leone has never been on the forefront of things Zephro fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Oct 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:29
|
|
|
When they start to starve because the farmers are all dead, the people will eat the dogs. Turnabout is fair play.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:33
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:Take the crying about a single dog to a facebook petition, this is a thread about a straight up apocalyptic plague that could kill millions of people. It's loving insulting. I'm sure your indignation will weight heavily on the cat lady's mind when she's considering whether she should tell anyone that she begun making GBS threads blood yesterday. It's probably just hemorrhoids but if she tells anyone They will come and kill Whiskers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:33
|
|
|
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/190000-sign-petition-to-save-ebola-nurses-dog.html are you loving kidding me
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:44
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/190000-sign-petition-to-save-ebola-nurses-dog.html 0 of these people donated to any organizations like the MSF.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:45
|
|
|
Caconym posted:But no matter the result it's still an n of one. Quarantine and test wouldn't be hard, but let's not pretend it could give us any useful information. You'd have to run large controlled studies anyway no matter the result in this one case. It's useful for the start, just to give some indication if, in case of more infections, containment of pets is a priority. Especially that we don't have time for large controlled studies right now. In case of a larger epidemics, some pets will inevitably escape or get released. It's better to know now if they are going to be dangerous or not.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:45
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:Take the crying about a single dog to a facebook petition, this is a thread about a straight up apocalyptic plague that could kill millions of people. Why is it crying, though? There's actually a very valid point being made in that there can be unforeseen consequences if you approach this from a beep-boop I'm a robot mode. Whether you've never had a pet, or are someone who can/is willing to side with the government's actions here based on your own train of logic, there will be others who simply won't see it that way. If someone told you that they were going to put down a family member because they have ebola - you would probably have a few questions about that at the very least. Especially so if they 'might' have ebola, and we don't want to take any chances and here's a court order saying we can. Fine, to some people it's 'just a dog, get over it people are dying' - but the issue isn't how attached *you* feel to that animal - it's about how attached pet owners will start to really feel if they come to believe that their pet, ie family member is going to be put down. Maybe people will still call in or go to ER if they get sick enough - or maybe they'll just let their pet free or ask someone else to watch them temporarily - all very bad things if you are trying to contain an outbreak. It really seems naive to me to downplay the sort of exponential new threats and vectors that having this sort of policy might create - and really with an outbreak like this that depends on cooperation from the public, the last thing you want to do is alienate them from your attempts to help. Christ, we were just talking about how some regions were having attacks on HCW's because family members had no idea what was happening to their relatives. They couldn't see them, communicate, etc. Although this is a bit different from the example of 'We are putting your pet down because we do not know if they are/can be infected', the important thing to take away is that in the end you are left with the same emotions. Alienation, anger and resentment - all emotions you do not want to be stirring in your populations during an epidemic where it is imperative that they trust you and your actions as a government entity. That's the bad thing here, and it has every bit of relevance to the discussion. I don't think anyone is trying to belittle what's happening in Liberia or Sierra Leone or make it all about the dog - it just seems like a policy that is not without some potentially serious flaws and consequences.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:50
|
|
|
MeLKoR posted:I'm sure your indignation will weight heavily on the cat lady's mind when she's considering whether she should tell anyone that she begun making GBS threads blood yesterday. It's probably just hemorrhoids but if she tells anyone They will come and kill Whiskers. Many infected people are likely to go into full denial, hole up, and die. Especially cat lady types, who probably don't have all their poo poo in a single bag to begin with. ... They is the operative term there. If the people come to think of the authorities as They, it will be a great impediment to control, as in Liberia. zimboe fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Oct 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:51
|
|
|
Here I made a thread to discuss the Ebola Dog scandal so we can actually discuss the epidemic in this one. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3670498
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 09:55
|
|
|
Lemming posted:0 of these people donated to any organizations like the MSF. That might be because signing a petition is free though?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 10:00
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:Here I made a thread to discuss the Ebola Dog scandal so we can actually discuss the epidemic in this one. These people that are pointing valid reasons why my arguments might turn out to be dangerously counter productive sure are stupid. Let me open a thread mocking them so I can ignore what they are saying. And I'm gonna do it after someone posts an article saying 190.000 people are doing exactly what those people predicted they would. I like your debating style.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 10:01
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:Here I made a thread to discuss the Ebola Dog scandal so we can actually discuss the epidemic in this one. In gbs.  at the idea that any discussion could take place there.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 10:03
|
|
|
Redgrendel2001 posted:Just to expand on this...
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 10:38
|
|
|
AVeryLargeRadish posted:In gbs. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 10:39
|
|
|
back to topic: Is there any up to the minute news on the ground conditions in the Hot Zones? MSM has a big gaping hole about that, its all about the Texas dude and that bloody dog. Not much news seems to be coming out of there. Is everybody dead,or what? Twitter feeds? phone pics? ham radio? Or did they just leave the single telephone in the country off the hook? ... I think China is starting to firewall out some Ebola news-don't want to worry the public too much, I guess... Is that happening in MSM elsewhere? ... I have searched and from here in China nothing younger than mid-September. Though I did get a weather report for Monrovia. 77f. Thunderstorms. Its what they don't talk about that's important. I think it must be real real bad there, much worse than anyone is letting on. What are the They concealing from us? zimboe fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Oct 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 10:45
|
|
|
Small White Dragon posted:What pathogens are "The Stand"-level? Besides, I presume, Ebola. Lassa/ Machupo/Q fevers, Hantavirus, Marburg, Horse Measles, and many others you never heard of. the animal hosts are often rodents and bats.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:17
|
|
|
current: All but three doctors in Liberia have bolted and ran. the medical care providers are splitting too. they have basically no supplies or gloves or water. The bureaucracy is unresponsive... They have surrendered to the inevitable it seems. The system is prostrate. zimboe fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Oct 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:33
|
|
|
They are currently trying to kill the dog - https://twitter.com/PartidoPACMA Police and fire brigade evicting the protestors setup around the building. Its really stupid of the Spanish to do this, as there needs to be research done to see if family pets are susceptible, and this dog is the perfect test case. They are just making the problem a lot worse for every government as people are now going to think there pets will be killed, which means people will be less forthcoming when they have Ebola.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
zimboe posted:back to topic: Sierra Leone posted a situation report this weekend which showed 140 deaths in a day, and them the site went down on Monday and yesterday the past five sitreps were missing. Liberia has gone from posting daily sitreps to incomplete weekly ones. Flutrackers has some good information though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:39
|
|
|
If that dog does have ebola, provoking some sort of rescue attempt from the protesters is a perfect way to spread it even further 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:43
|
|
|
Apparently there's a suspected case in Southern California. Also the world bank released a 71 page report on the economic impact of the disease on West Africa: http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/2014/10/20270083/economic-impact-2014-ebola-epidemic-short-medium-term-estimates-west-africa The "High Ebola" (which only assumes 200,000 cases in all of West Africa) GDP loss for Liberia is 12% by the end of next year.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:52
|
|
|
Is it possible to make a dog sized level 4 containment suit for the dog? Then it could go outside and play while not posing a risk to others when not in isolation. Dogs have rights like people, join the movement. Cats should be culled immediately, they will be like the rats of the bubonic plague.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 11:52
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:
Gonna need to be propped up by the West even moreso than normal. For a long while, at that. I do not envy POTUS the task of prying an even semi-respectable amount of food relief and infrastructural aid out of congress, particularly after the size and expense of the military medical aid deployment.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:09
|
|
|
Pillowpants posted:Sierra Leone posted a situation report this weekend which showed 140 deaths in a day, and them the site went down on Monday and yesterday the past five sitreps were missing. How did they arrive at the name "Flutrackers"? sounds like something Yosemite Sam would say.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:10
|
|
|
I ran into Ebola and HIV at the deli the other day. "Hey guys, what are you up to?" I asked them. Ebola says, "I'm working on a plan to kill hundreds of thousands of Africans, and one dog". "Why one dog?" "See HIV, I told you no one cared about the Africans!" Only instead of this being a joke it's the actual opinion of at least 190,000 people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:12
|
|
|
CheesyDog posted:I ran into Ebola and HIV at the deli the other day. Yeah like HIV would need that explained to him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:30
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:Liberia/Sierra Leone/Guinea are outside the main AIDS belts in Africa, so it is probably not a statistically significant factor in anything. Off-topic, but since there seems to be some relevant expertise in the thread, why is HIV so much more prevalent in south/east Africa than it is in west Africa? Those states don't seem to be more developed or stable. Congo's low rate is a bit surprising too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:47
|
|
|
zimboe posted:Any data on the proportion of Ebola dead that were also infected with HIV? A person with an HIV impaired immune system would go out like a candle in a hurricane. I could be very wrong here, but isn't the deadly part of Ebola that it causes a cytokine storm? Wouldn't people with compromised immune systems be less able to produce such a cytokine storm?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:54
|
|
|
I was about to request some Ebola jokes from the GBS thread but you beat me to it. Sure and Mr. Rodney Richpigge up on the hill in his solid gold house probably thinks this is all a Good Thing. But Ebola-chan is no racist. She eats Whites too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:57
|
|
|
MeLKoR posted:These people that are pointing valid reasons why my arguments might turn out to be dangerously counter productive sure are stupid. Let me open a thread mocking them so I can ignore what they are saying. And I'm gonna do it after someone posts an article saying 190.000 people are doing exactly what those people predicted they would. You literally think killing one potential bola dog is going to trigger a chain reaction that could lead to civil strife
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 12:58
|
|
|
ohgodwhat posted:I could be very wrong here, but isn't the deadly part of Ebola that it causes a cytokine storm? Wouldn't people with compromised immune systems be less able to produce such a cytokine storm? Interesting point. AIDS protective against Ebola? What a cruel irony. Die slow or die fast.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 13:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:54 |
|
|
AreWeDrunkYet posted:Off-topic, but since there seems to be some relevant expertise in the thread, why is HIV so much more prevalent in south/east Africa than it is in west Africa? Those states don't seem to be more developed or stable. Congo's low rate is a bit surprising too. I'm guessing the giant jungle might hinder interaction a little bit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 13:01
|
|
