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I remember someone once posted here a nWOD conversion for Orpheus. Anyone have that link handy?
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Oct 7, 2014 18:30
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And DA:V20 is funded. Great kickstarter everyone. See you next time. 
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Oct 7, 2014 19:08
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Luminous Obscurity posted:And DA:V20 is funded. Great kickstarter everyone. See you next time. Wow, it only took two hours to get funded  . Niiiice.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:17
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I loved the art / layout of the original Vampire: the Dark Ages and hated it in Dark Ages: Vampire - I'm glad the kickstarter got funded, but doubt I will ever purchase a copy
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Oct 7, 2014 21:50
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I just appreciate every time an Onyx Path kickstarter comes out with a complete manuscript on day 0 of the project.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:20
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Erebro posted:Speaking of Reapers, Mage Antagonists finally won the spoiler vote. I'm kind of fuzzy on what makes most of the example Liches Left-Handed. I mean, the Tremere and body-jackers are sinister as gently caress, but why does prolonging your consciousness as an intelligent Ghost or Spirit make you an enemy of all Right-minded Mages?
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Oct 7, 2014 23:51
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Cryophage posted:I'm kind of fuzzy on what makes most of the example Liches Left-Handed. I mean, the Tremere and body-jackers are sinister as gently caress, but why does prolonging your consciousness as an intelligent Ghost or Spirit make you an enemy of all Right-minded Mages? Short answer: hubris. Long answer: when you're a screaming aggregate mass of thoughts and dreams pillaging the Temenos for mystical lore, or a ghost hard-wired to only do certain magical rituals every few decades, you're so far gone past humanity that even Scelesti go "whoa hey slow your roll"
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Oct 7, 2014 23:57
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Cryophage posted:I'm kind of fuzzy on what makes most of the example Liches Left-Handed. I mean, the Tremere and body-jackers are sinister as gently caress, but why does prolonging your consciousness as an intelligent Ghost or Spirit make you an enemy of all Right-minded Mages? I imagine it has something to do with discarding your humanity entirely. In a game so obsessed with symbols, the act of shedding your body to become something else seems very important. It could also just be that all the liche options involve some seriously nasty soul fuckery or something. One of the options involved is some straight up Asenath Waite horseshit, after all.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:58
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Cryophage posted:I'm kind of fuzzy on what makes most of the example Liches Left-Handed. I mean, the Tremere and body-jackers are sinister as gently caress, but why does prolonging your consciousness as an intelligent Ghost or Spirit make you an enemy of all Right-minded Mages? The wages of entropy. Immortality doesn't happen effortlessly; it takes its toll one way or another, to shore up the theme. The morpheans, for example, last they appeared (in Astral Realms), were sorcerers who crafted their own Oneiroi into, basically, mobile pirate-ship dreams roving the Astral. Transforming your own dream-soul into a vehicle and permanent residence, it turns out, has damaging effects on your psyche (who knew). Their goetia mutate into bizarre astral creatures, and in order to take in new knowledge, they have to actually invade other thought-realms and sleeping souls, physically stealing ideas to take back and hoard in the hull of their dream-vehicle.
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Oct 8, 2014 00:04
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Cryophage posted:I'm kind of fuzzy on what makes most of the example Liches Left-Handed. I mean, the Tremere and body-jackers are sinister as gently caress, but why does prolonging your consciousness as an intelligent Ghost or Spirit make you an enemy of all Right-minded Mages? Developer answer, paraphrased: The default is that a Mage chronicle is anti-transhumanist, in that the cost of immortality is almost always not worth it. The question is not if, but who is going to pay it; if you do, the example cost is losing your ability to interact with the waking world (Morpheans), or being forced into the insane politics of spirits and not being able to talk to humans as a human (Archangels of the Scions of God). If others do, the fact you aren't technically a monster biologically doesn't mean you get to avoid the very justified label. In my opinion, a lich has the highest chance of being a potential ally and even player character out of all the failure states of magic, but they're fundamentally tragic creatures; they sacrificed everything to avoid the specter of death, only to find what they sacrificed to be the thing that made immortality bearable. Tremere may be Kindred/Awakened hybrids, but less selfish liches are the ones who actually empathize with vampires. Assuming they don't envy them for the comparatively less crappy immortality. Erebro fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 00:05
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Cryophage posted:I'm kind of fuzzy on what makes most of the example Liches Left-Handed. I mean, the Tremere and body-jackers are sinister as gently caress, but why does prolonging your consciousness as an intelligent Ghost or Spirit make you an enemy of all Right-minded Mages? I don't think it does. If you transfigure yourself permanently into a spellcasting spirit and hang out in the Shadow other mages are probably inclined to leave you alone (unless their interests conflict with yours or you know something they want to know or w/e). They'd still probably tell their apprentices not to follow your example, though. I hope they tone down the [evil]->[hubris] find-replace, though. Soul theft is excessively prideful? That's the important thing to keep in mind about it? The mental state of the perpetrator at the time?
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Oct 8, 2014 00:18
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Daeren posted:...or a ghost hard-wired to only do certain magical rituals every few decades, you're so far gone past humanity that even Scelesti go "whoa hey slow your roll" "Most ghost mages are simply ghosts... A minority, though, are free-willed, clear-minded and retain all their powers, the mages’ mind and soul somehow staying attached to the ghost instead of vanishing upon death." Help me see the problem with this. Erebro posted:Developer answer, paraphrased: The default is that a Mage chronicle is anti-transhumanist But isn't the spiritual goal of Mage transcendence of the Fallen World? So everyone should be working towards immortality, but only the right kind? Cryophage fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 00:23
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Cryophage posted:But isn't the spiritual goal of Mage transcendence of the Fallen World? So everyone should be working towards immortality, but only the right kind? No, it would just mean that Death wouldn't completely suck in the way that the Fallen World twists everything Supernal to suck. Everything would die and move on in the best way possible after living an optimal life. People would let go when they need to, not a moment sooner or later. Maybe some people could embrace constant transformation, partial death, and perpetual renewal, but by the rules of Death they wouldn't really be the same person after a while. Leaving vibrant and living legacies behind to accomplish your goals is much more noble than extending your life to do it personally, by Pentacle mores.
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Oct 8, 2014 00:56
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Cryophage posted:But isn't the spiritual goal of Mage transcendence of the Fallen World? The Fallen World isn't fallen because it's a bad lovely world mages hate. (Well, some radical visionaries gunning for the Golden Road might feel that way. Sensible mages give them a wide berth.) The Fallen World is fallen because of something it suffers: the Lie. The spiritual goal is to transcend the Lie, but the Lie isn't what defines the Fallen World, but an affliction upon it. It's the symbolic tyrannies imposed from without by the Exarchs: the ability and tendency of the strong to subjugate the weak, the predatory and abusive relationship the secret world has to the known world, the tendency of ideologies to become twisted and radicalized. All that fun stuff. The part where people are living things with bodies that eat food, rather than raw symbol-forms that exist as occult semiotics, isn't the part of the Fallen World most mages object to.
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Oct 8, 2014 02:37
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Jill Tracy did a cover of Bela Lugosi's Dead with David J from Bauhaus. oWoD as gently caress. http://davidjofficial.bandcamp.com/track/bela-lugosis-dead-undead-is-forever
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Oct 8, 2014 02:49
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Loomer posted:Jill Tracy did a cover of Bela Lugosi's Dead with David J from Bauhaus. oWoD as gently caress. I still for the life of me can not understand how the gently caress Bauhaus, Dead Can Dance, or anything of a similar ilk was ever popular. But then my dream oWoD game would probably involve a rockabilly soundtrack so wtf would I know.
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Oct 8, 2014 03:20
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I Am Just a Box posted:The Fallen World isn't fallen because it's a bad lovely world mages hate. (Well, some radical visionaries gunning for the Golden Road might feel that way. Sensible mages give them a wide berth.) The Fallen World is fallen because of something it suffers: the Lie. The spiritual goal is to transcend the Lie, but the Lie isn't what defines the Fallen World, but an affliction upon it. It's the symbolic tyrannies imposed from without by the Exarchs: the ability and tendency of the strong to subjugate the weak, the predatory and abusive relationship the secret world has to the known world, the tendency of ideologies to become twisted and radicalized. All that fun stuff. The part where people are living things with bodies that eat food, rather than raw symbol-forms that exist as occult semiotics, isn't the part of the Fallen World most mages object to. 
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Oct 8, 2014 03:37
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Silver Ladder still best order.
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Oct 8, 2014 03:42
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I Am Just a Box posted:(Well, some radical visionaries gunning for the Golden Road might feel that way. Sensible mages give them a wide berth.) I was always under the impression that although very few Mages ever reach it, Archmastery was a more or less universal goal among the Wise. That is, where Mages are all about learning, Archmastery comes from finally knowing. Sort of a: "Shoot for the moon; even if you miss, you'll land among the petty backstabbing of the Concillium" type deal. I Am Just a Box posted:The part where people are living things with bodies that eat food, rather than raw symbol-forms that exist as occult semiotics, isn't the part of the Fallen World most mages object to. Right, but death in the post-Lie Fallen world is explicitly terrible, is it not? The current underworld is not a good place to be, and it seems only rational for Mages in the know to seek out (semi?)ethical options to avoid it. Beyond that, Mages use magic to avoid death all the time. It just so happens that death by bullet = bad, but death by age = good? It just seems weird that apparently shapeshifters have to go out of their way to say "Hey, no, it's cool, totally mortal. No need to break out the pitchforks."
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Oct 8, 2014 03:43
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Mages see the underworld as part of the Fallen World, and it's explicitly lovely because of the Lie warping Death into a terrible weapon of control. And it's not that death by old age is good so much as death by eventuality is the health of everything. Death posits that nothing truly springs forth ex nihilo, and past a certain point, you're almost certainly going to be taking more from the world than you're giving back to it. It's the arcanum of metaphysical accounting.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:19
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yes, yes, this is what I want from my pretend wizardry
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Oct 8, 2014 04:26
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"Lich" isn't the same thing as "Immortal Mage". A mage who just sustained a Making Life or Unmaking Time "suppress aging" spell of some sort and was somehow lucky enough to never, ever see it dispelled wouldn't be classified as a lich and wouldn't be hunted down or probably even looked at askance by their cohorts. It's specifically mages that cease to be human beings in the course of attaining immortality that mage society is kinda ehhhh, I dunno, I dunno about that guy.... about. The thearchs don't want to give everyone phylacteries or ensconce everyone's soul into a personalized golem - they just want to dismiss the problem of mortality through sheer fiat.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:26
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Wait a second this is going to turn into another six page argument about Mage isnt it, isn't it!? ^ WE CAN STILL PREVENT THIS ^
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Oct 8, 2014 04:38
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So I ran a single-player session of Mage last weekend for a housemate in a low-fantasy setting based on Republican Rome. He cashed in two levels of Wisdom for XP. At Wisdom 5 should he have been making degeneration rolls when he sacrificed a couple of chickens and maybe a goat to recoup his mana at session's end? The animals were cooked and eaten by his employer's kitchen slaves, it's not like he was killing animals that weren't going to fry anyway.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:42
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zeal posted:yes, yes, this is what I want from my pretend wizardry Look man, if you don't want to blow up Heaven in the name of Glorious Magical Communist Revolution, I don't know what to tell you.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:44
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Animal sacrifice isn't a Wisdom sin at all by default, although conceivably you could make needlessly cruel sacrifices a sin against 9 or 10 or something.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:45
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if you're a mage and not running a series of interlocking mystery cults whose rituals slowly elevate their practitioners to sleepwalker status in preparation for sequential mass Awakening you're working for the Exarchs without even getting the filthy lucre of servitude e: in similar vein I will be frankly astonished if the write-up for Ptolemy Soter in the forthcoming Mage sourcebook on Alexander in India does not give him strong magely connections
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Oct 8, 2014 04:46
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V20 Dark Ages is set in 1242, the year Alexander Nevsky fought off the Teutonic Knights, so that's pretty cool.Alexander "Totally Not Stalin" Nevsky posted:Go tell all in foreign lands that Russia lives! Those who come to us in peace will be welcome as a guest. But those who come to us sword in hand will die by the sword! On that Russia stands and forever will we stand! I'm hoping they do W20 Dark Ages because I've always felt medieval werewolf was pretty awesome.
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Oct 8, 2014 05:44
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:V20 Dark Ages is set in 1242, the year Alexander Nevsky fought off the Teutonic Knights, so that's pretty cool. Now I want some sort of V20s Dark Ages / Crusader Kings 2 pen and paper/board game hybrid with rules of creating a dynasty and kingdom management or maybe I just want V20 Dark Ages with Sons of Abraham, The Old Gods, The Republic, Raja's of India, and a Russia expansion. 
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Oct 8, 2014 06:07
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Cryophage posted:But isn't the spiritual goal of Mage transcendence of the Fallen World? So everyone should be working towards immortality, but only the right kind? And liches are spending all their energies and discarding their humanity to stay in the Fallen World forever. Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 07:23
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Helical Nightmares posted:Now I want some sort of V20s Dark Ages / Crusader Kings 2 pen and paper/board game hybrid with rules of creating a dynasty and kingdom management or maybe I just want V20 Dark Ages with Sons of Abraham, The Old Gods, The Republic, Raja's of India, and a Russia expansion. Don't tempt me to start writing up mechanics for another game I will never start.
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Oct 8, 2014 07:35
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If you told me that the Camarilla/Mind's Eye Society was really a massive PBEM with occasional live-action events I would not be able to refute that in any meaningful way.
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Oct 8, 2014 09:44
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Dave Brookshaw posted:And liches are spending all their energies and discarding their humanity to stay in the Fallen World forever. I get that it might be widely seen as unWise, but I would think though that someone who missed out on Ascension for fear of dieing before reaching Ascension would be the source of pity or derision, not a witch-hunt. I mean, it makes sense to hunt down Tremere-alikes for the same reason it makes sense to hunt down other magical serialkillers, but it seems odd that "Legacies who shape their physical forms past humanity who don’t survive beyond death have to make their status as not-liches exceedingly clear at Convocation." Spend all your time as a bear? No problem. Spend all your time as an unageing bear? Now we have a problem. In short:  Daeren posted:Wait a second this is going to turn into another six page argument about Mage isnt it, isn't it!? I'm sorry if I'm coming across as argumentative; I'm honestly trying to suss out the new setting.
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Oct 8, 2014 12:46
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Cryophage posted:I get that it might be widely seen as unWise, but I would think though that someone who missed out on Ascension for fear of dieing before reaching Ascension would be the source of pity or derision, not a witch-hunt. Another factor is that it's a law of nature that any magic - short of archmastery - that is maintained over a long period of time will either have unintended consequences or be warped by the Abyss into something dangerous to reality. Liches are having to saturate themselves with magic just to continue existing once they've made the plunge, and that's not going to be a safe thing to be around. Not to mention that once you've taking the leap of tearing out your soul to continue living, people get worried about what else you might do if provoked.
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Oct 8, 2014 13:44
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citybeatnik posted:I still for the life of me can not understand how the gently caress Bauhaus, Dead Can Dance, or anything of a similar ilk was ever popular. It's a thing you really had to live through, I guess. Music used to be keyed into subcultures much harder than it is today, where people would commonly integrate tastes into identity to a degree you only rarely see now. Or that might have just been highschool. Daeren posted:
I'm going to be p.disappointed if I miss Dark Ages chat scrolling past the same Mage discussion again.
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Oct 8, 2014 13:59
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Plus the original of Bela Lugosi's Dead is a good song and I will fight anyone who disagrees.
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Oct 8, 2014 14:29
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It's surprising how well so much of that held up, too. I suppose being its own unique peninsula worked out better for it than something like grunge, which you can still hear echoes of on today's rock stations.
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Oct 8, 2014 14:50
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Oh man, I'd love to be able to play a DA game that revolves around either being a Ventrue using the "traditional" method of increasing his Dignitas (showing up outside of someone's castle with an army and politely informing the owner that they were your vassal) or a Bone Gnawer tramp setting up a begger's guild.Loomer posted:Plus the original of Bela Lugosi's Dead is a good song and I will fight anyone who disagrees. moths posted:It's a thing you really had to live through, I guess. Music used to be keyed into subcultures much harder than it is today, where people would commonly integrate tastes into identity to a degree you only rarely see now. It might be the latter I suppose - I vaguely recall it being something I had to put up with then, but it always just seemed so goofy.
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Oct 8, 2014 14:55
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Gothic rock was never really popular, though. It was always a niche subcultural audience.
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Oct 8, 2014 15:03
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Yeah those subcultures don't really exist to the same degree today - unless they do amd I'm totally unaware because I'm am old nerd with a job. There's some interesting youth culture homogenization that happened with the of the internet. I remember young people identifying themselves musically (stuff like the Phish hippies, the DMB frat guys, or punk guys raging at Green Day appropriating their scene.) Does that still happen today on campuses? E: to bring it more around to topic, a lot of the oWoD makes more sense through the filter of subcultures. Here's the punk rock vampires, rap werewolves, etc. moths fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 15:12
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