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SeanBeansShako posted:I love that Drink Wine is a nickname. I'm going to remember that one. The two things an infantry muster roll must contain for each common soldier is full name and place of origin. Cav. rolls often just have names. (Often, listings for officers do not contain place of origin, probably because that's designed to make bounty jumping harder, which an officer wouldn't do. Their fraud, of course, is on a larger scale.) After that, they may or may not contain CVs, age, marital status, number of children, civillian occupation, rate of pay, and sometimes nicknames, but none of those seem to be mandatory. And nobody keeps death lists. Thanks a lot, guys. (Statistics is an Enlightenment invention.) I've read a secondary source on Italy that say that Parman rolls contain physical descriptions but I've never seen any German ones with those, which is too bad. Edit: It's really funny that German, Bohemian, or Hungarian guys will be listed under their hometowns but guys from elsewhere just get "England" or "France." It gets vaguer and vaguer the further you get from Eastern Germany. Like, even a Dane or a Pole will get his hometown listed but an Englishman just gets "Engellandt." Will your average Saxon even know where that is? I found one dude listed as "Nickolai Tartar from Tartary," which could have been a whole bunch of places. ("Tartar," like the people I run into named Boehme {"Bohemian"}, probably represents a Musterschreiber trying, and failing, to come to grips with a very difficult last name. This is all Zs what do I dooooo) Edit 2: I wonder if a roll from Elsass or something would list Frenchmen under their hometowns but simply wave imprecisely at Bohemia. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 11:26
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What language did the various Bohemian, German, Hungarian, Italian and Austrian nobles use in their day to day life in the early modern period? How about in the Holy Roman Empire's court? Could the colonels and generals understand what their pikemen said?
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Oct 8, 2014 12:29
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Hogge Wild posted:What language did the various Bohemian, German, Hungarian, Italian and Austrian nobles use in their day to day life in the early modern period? How about in the Holy Roman Empire's court? Could the colonels and generals understand what their pikemen said? However, while Tilly (a loyalist Dutch) could speak German, he was self-conscious enough about it that he had someone else translate his pre-battle speeches, standing next to him. I have read one interrogation which took place in Italian and was translated into German for the records. All the Englishmen in this one company where the pike is (for some reason) full of Englishmen give their first names in the German manner and presumably know enough German at least to answer the question "Full name and place of origin?" The regiment I'm studying right now, which has been somewhere near Milan for the entire winter season, mentions that when people go shopping or whatever they'll take a friend with them specifically "because he can speak the language," so even the guys who have no Italian know people who do. Meanwhile, the Oberst Lieutenant can speak and write in German which is, as far as I can tell, fluent. The more educated a dude is the more likely he is to sprinkle Latin and French, Italian and Spanish, into his letters. Wallenstein was a Bohemian and his first language was Czech, but he never writes in Czech. (His spelling has a thick Czech accent though.) Robert Munro's memoirs are peppered with German vocabulary words for specific military-related things, like he'll say Morgenstern, Lunt, Lager. Traces of the language he discusses them in. The Empire's administration probably speaks...Latin? Ask Jauche Charly. Considering the wide varieties of languages we call "German," though, it's probably difficult for a Saxon to understand a Swiss, for heaven's sake. (In reenactment, our Fendrich is Saxon. He begins the day by yelling at us in Standard German and ends the day yelling at us in Saecsisch. Can't understand a goddamn thing.) During this reenactment season, I have gotten pretty good at the phrase "SHOW-ME-WHAT-I-NEED-TO-DO," said as slowly and clearly as possible. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 12:53
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Do we know what the hell Englishmen were doing over there and how they got there? Is it kind of like the French Foreign Legion, where there's a tiny-but-steady (and loud) trickle of people who can't get their fighting-and-drinking jollies anywhere else, and become known as "les fuckings" after their favourite word?
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Oct 8, 2014 13:13
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I imagine fighting either for money or simply over religion as the current monarch hates those other guys.
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Oct 8, 2014 13:15
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I don't know. I learned in school that nobles would be speaking Italian in the Baroque. The language of culture and art. In the 18th century it's just French all the way.
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Oct 8, 2014 13:17
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my dad posted:Looks like Blackadder (or Baldrick, at the very least) had some adventures in Germany. It reminds me of this, actually. HEY GAL posted:gefreyters, fendriches, gemeinweibels Funny to see the roots of our military ranks today. (Fähnrich, Gefreiter, Feldwebel) What they're doing changed a bit, of course: A "Fähnrich" is one of the higher officer cadet ranks, a "Gefreiter" is second-to-lowest rank of common soldier and a "Feldwebel" still is essentially the same as back then. HEY GAL posted:Considering the wide varieties of languages we call "German," though, it's probably difficult for a Saxon to understand a Swiss, for heaven's sake. (In reenactment, our Fendrich is Saxon. He begins the day by yelling at us in Standard German and ends the day yelling at us in Saecsisch. Can't understand a goddamn thing.) Ah yes good old Sächsisch. My Stepfather tended to rant a lot about how Sächsisch wasn't really part of the German language and how "die Sachsen" should just go back where they came from. I often riled him up by pointing out their ancestors where forcibly relocated to modern-day Sachsen by Charlemagne and actually came from Niedersachsen, where we live. 
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Oct 8, 2014 13:22
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Funny quote:Charles V posted:I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse. But why Spanish instead of Latin?
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Oct 8, 2014 13:29
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I don't know about early modern, but by the late 18th century Czech, Hungarian, Slovak, and other Central European languages were in serious decline because they'd been superseded by German in everyday usage by the educated. When nationalism became fashionable a bunch of languages were self-consciously reformed, modernized, and actively promoted by the intelligentsia. Before/during the 1848 revolutions the process accelerated considerably so that by the later part of the 19th century they were standard for elites. Eventually the Hungarians were trying to force Slovaks to learn reformed Hungarian instead of reformed Slovak, and so forth. HEY GAL posted:The Empire's administration probably speaks...Latin? Ask Jauche Charly. Hungary was still using Latin for administrative purposes until 1844.
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Oct 8, 2014 13:29
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How long do medieval battles last? Do people break for lunch?
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Oct 8, 2014 13:36
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EvanSchenck posted:I don't know about early modern, but by the late 18th century Czech, Hungarian, Slovak, and other Central European languages were in serious decline because they'd been superseded by German in everyday usage by the educated. When nationalism became fashionable a bunch of languages were self-consciously reformed, modernized, and actively promoted by the intelligentsia. Before/during the 1848 revolutions the process accelerated considerably so that by the later part of the 19th century they were standard for elites. Eventually the Hungarians were trying to force Slovaks to learn reformed Hungarian instead of reformed Slovak, and so forth. Quite the same in Finland except the elite's language was Swedish. And Latin stayed important in Universities for a while.
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Oct 8, 2014 13:37
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Hegel do you have any videos of your pike reenactments, more specifically the training? I am looking on YouTube but there is not a lot to see (just a lot of fat dudes reenacting english pike pushing against each other in a circle)
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Oct 8, 2014 14:15
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Hogge Wild posted:Funny quote: It's a contemporary witticism, and may be misattributed entirely: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor quote:Misattributed
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Oct 8, 2014 16:10
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Trin Tragula posted:Do we know what the hell Englishmen were doing over there and how they got there? Is it kind of like the French Foreign Legion, where there's a tiny-but-steady (and loud) trickle of people who can't get their fighting-and-drinking jollies anywhere else, and become known as "les fuckings" after their favourite word? SeanBeansShako posted:I imagine fighting...over religion as the current monarch hates those other guys. Animal posted:Hegel do you have any videos of your pike reenactments, more specifically the training? I am looking on YouTube but there is not a lot to see (just a lot of fat dudes reenacting english pike pushing against each other in a circle) HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 17:27
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Maybe there was a really good sports tournie going on then or something.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:28
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100 Years Ago Antwerp is a cause so lost that I'm half-expecting to see it rescued at the last minute by a photogenic dog, but nobody seems to have told the Royal Naval Division. They're still there, in their boutique foot-deep trenches, listening to shells explode somewhere else, hearing rifle fire at some other position. All through the day they listen to the sounds and wait for orders. Shortly before nightfall, orders arrive. The Division has suffered minimal casualties of 57 killed and 138 wounded. quote:Leading Seaman Tobin, Hood Battalion, RND 8,000 men of the RND. 205 battle casualties. However, only 5,300 men will take the west road to freedom and re-embark for Blighty. They'll be back in time, once they've been afforded such luxuries as "training" and "equipment". One of the battalions is put on a train, which is promptly dispatched in the wrong direction by the Belgian railwaymen; the men soon find themselves on an all-expenses-paid German package holiday. As for the rest, they're still in the trenches, waiting for orders that will never reach them. Between the shelling and the darkness, they haven't noticed their mates getting out of it.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:48
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Hegel == Trin Trigula > Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar Just saying. (not that I want an effort post by Rodrigo or anything).
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Oct 8, 2014 22:52
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Found this, not 100% sure its true. Did stuff like this actually happen?How to Grind Coffee 101, WW1 German Trench Edition posted:Rudi’s granddad, Alfons, fought for Germany in WW1 and survived, and in the 1950’s he shared his memories with Rudi.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:25
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SkySteak posted:Found this, not 100% sure its true. Did stuff like this actually happen? I can't verify this one story, but "stuff like this" certainly happened. Problems getting food (and coffee) to the frontline, problems with command sending worthless supplies, and hungry soldiers using whatever they had on hand as tools. Killing for Peace describes hungry soldiers in the Vietnam War prying the C4 out of landmines and burning it to cook food.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:37
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:I can't verify this one story, but "stuff like this" certainly happened. Problems getting food (and coffee) to the frontline, problems with command sending worthless supplies, and hungry soldiers using whatever they had on hand as tools. Killing for Peace describes hungry soldiers in the Vietnam War prying the C4 out of landmines and burning it to cook food.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:45
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Certainly on the German side, I'd be prepared to believe that. Once the blockade tightened its grip they were all drinking disgusting chicory substitute, and like Captain Janeway, they all suddenly developed much more of an appetite to go out on trench raids and minor offensives, the objectives being to get into some enemy dugouts and nick all their food, tea, coffee, rum, fags, pipe-tobacco, socks, and anything else that couldn't be had on the other side. It's actually a major reason why the Spring Offensive bogged down as soon as it did; the blokes were too busy conducting informal resupply exercises to keep advancing. (In the absence of a proper pioneer corps after losses started to take their toll, they also enjoyed keeping POWs rather closer to the front than the Geneva Conventions dictated to do all the things they couldn't be bothered to do themselves, so the presence of the Senegalese heckler is actually the most believable part of the story.)
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Oct 8, 2014 23:48
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:I can't verify this one story, but "stuff like this" certainly happened. Problems getting food (and coffee) to the frontline, problems with command sending worthless supplies, and hungry soldiers using whatever they had on hand as tools. Killing for Peace describes hungry soldiers in the Vietnam War prying the C4 out of landmines and burning it to cook food. Not a terrible idea, actually, since Comp-B/C-4 burns quite readily. However a terrible idea to take it from the claymores as now instead of having several thousand ball bearings spraying dismemberment and decapitation at high speed when you hit the clacker, they instead now have the velocity of a wet fart. Not good for killing VC.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:49
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MA-Horus posted:Not a terrible idea, actually, since Comp-B/C-4 burns quite readily. Wouldn't that be carcinogenic as hell?
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Oct 8, 2014 23:53
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wdarkk posted:Wouldn't that be carcinogenic as hell? No more so than the Agent Orange getting sprayed all over you or the 5 packs of pall malls you're smoking per day.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:10
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wdarkk posted:Wouldn't that be carcinogenic as hell? Its fumes on burning are described as poisonous, but that does not imply they're carcinogenic.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:13
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Is that the same reason Claymores supposedly have "Warning: Do Not Eat" labeled on them?
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Oct 9, 2014 00:20
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Is that the same reason Claymores supposedly have "Warning: Do Not Eat" labeled on them? I've never seen one that has that. But they DO have "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY" on them. Infantry is not good at convex vs concave.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:24
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MA-Horus posted:Infantry is not good at convex vs concave.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:58
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MA-Horus posted:I've never seen one that has that. But they DO have "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY" on them. I've also read about a case where some soldiers assumed the label meant that the back was not dangerous at all, and bolted a Claymore mine to the front of their Humvee with the idea of using it like a grapeshot cannon.
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Oct 9, 2014 01:03
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 That works fine in Battlefield.
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Oct 9, 2014 01:34
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:I've also read about a case where some soldiers assumed the label meant that the back was not dangerous at all, and bolted a Claymore mine to the front of their Humvee with the idea of using it like a grapeshot cannon.  I need to know how this ended.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:10
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Arquinsiel posted:
A bunch of guys with ruptured eardrums and concussions and every pressure vessel on the hmmvw busted. Probably. There's a 48 foot backblast zone on the claymore.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:49
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MA-Horus posted:No more so than the Agent Orange getting sprayed all over you or the 5 packs of pall malls you're smoking per day. The 'Smoking me be hazardous to your health' warnings that started appearing on packs during Vietnam tend to show up a lot in memoirs as a source of great amusement to men who are trying to avoid being blown up/shot on the reg.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:50
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Does anyone know anything about the American Revolutionary War Rolls? I was looking at my family tree on Ancestry.com that my dad's cousin has been working on for years and learned that one of my ancestors was a gunner in the Continental Army. All that's shown on Ancestry.com is that he was a Gunner listed in Roll Box 120 of the Continental Troops. To actually view the films of the War Rolls Ancestry wants me to become a subscriber. So what I'm wondering is how much more information might the War Rolls actually show? Like would it show years served and such? I'm trying to determine what battles he may have been involved in. From googling Roll Box 120 it seems to be the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Artillery Regiments. However wikipedia lists all of these regiments being formed from companies from the Northern states while this particular ancestor is from Virginia. Did men travel to other states to enlist in the Continental Army?
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Oct 9, 2014 04:45
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Azathoth posted:I remember reading an anecdote about German troops in Stalingrad receiving a ridiculously large shipment of ground pepper during their ill-fated attempt to keep supplied entirely by air transport, despite a critical shortage of food and ammunition. During Market-Garden, one of the many, many things that went wrong for the British at Arnhem left them unable to tell the RAF that their resupply missions kept dropping supply canisters either straight into German-held territory or close enough to it that they couldn't be recovered safely. One British paratrooper sees a canister land near enough to the British positions that he takes a chance and rushes out to grab it and bring it back while under fire. When he gets back alive it out that the canister he grabbed was full of red berets. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 05:03
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Man If I was in charge of one of those aerial resupply missions I think I'd have a standing order that anyone caught loading anything other than food, fuel, ammo and medical supplies would be flogged. Of course the mundane reality is probably closer to something like 'Well poo poo, the flight's scheduled to take off in ten minutes, we don't have any *insert any number of critical items* left at the airfield. Throw that crap on.'
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Oct 9, 2014 05:11
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MA-Horus posted:A bunch of guys with ruptured eardrums and concussions and every pressure vessel on the hmmvw busted. Probably. all the descriptions online of Operation Paul Bunyan (in response to the "Axe-Murder incident") mention SF guys strapping claymores to their chests.. probable exaggeration or serious SF bravado?
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Oct 9, 2014 05:24
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Azathoth posted:I remember reading an anecdote about German troops in Stalingrad receiving a ridiculously large shipment of ground pepper during their ill-fated attempt to keep supplied entirely by air transport, despite a critical shortage of food and ammunition. Ground pepper and condoms.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:24
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Were the peppers inside the condoms because that sounds like an painful sex accident waiting to happen.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:36
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Arquinsiel posted:
It ended with an officer noticing and losing his voice yelling at everyone involved. I don't know how you would even begin to write up a reprimand for that kind of thing.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:37
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