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Torrannor posted:It's mainly down to tradition, a bit like the situation with Pluto, but unlike planets there is no easy definition for continents. Besides, different countries already view it as part of Asia, so it isn't even universally accepted as a continent. It's still a useful geographic subdivision, containing something like 90% of all Eurasian Christians, just like the Middle East is a useful subdivision of Asia. There's around 200 million Christians in Asia. Europe has approximately half a billion Christians. So, more like 70% 
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Oct 8, 2014 20:12
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As far as I'm concerned, Europe is a "region", like the Middle East or Central America, and continents are a pretty useless geographic division. Like, sure, there are lots of times when you habitually want to refer to a continent when you're talking about stuff, but I'm betting that it'd almost always be better and more accurate if you didn't refer to the continent.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:33
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North America
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Oct 8, 2014 20:34
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:After staring at a map of the globe for a minute, I'm struck by this thought: How the heck is Europe still considered a distinct continent in this day and age? Not only is Europe tiny, but there's nothing at all physically separating it from Asia. They're a contiguous landmass. Shouldn't they really just be considered one continent? If euros really want to be cheeky about how different they are from Asians, they can be a subcontinent like India. The steppe separates it from the properly populated parts of Asia, and has also functioned as a sort of no man's land between European and Asian civilizations for millenia. It's not really a proper geographical border, but makes a lot of sense as a cultural one along with the Urals, Caucasus and Bosphorus.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:37
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Torrannor posted:It's a commonwealth but not part of the United States? Weird BIAS posted:Canada is a part of the British Commonwealth of Nations, which excludes those US states and Canada does not refer to itself as a commonwealth as those US states do. Jokes fellas, look them up.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:37
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 An older map than from 1994 would probably show the general divide better, but this will serve.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:46
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It basically comes down to us conquering/dominating nearly everything else. And making the first accurate world maps. So we could call our peninsula a continent, while nobody was in a position to disagree. Deal with it.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:22
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Torrannor posted:It basically comes down to us conquering/dominating nearly everything else. And making the first accurate world maps. So we could call our peninsula a continent, while nobody was in a position to disagree. Deal with it. And soon it will be one nation instead of one continent.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:23
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computer parts posted:And soon it will be one nation instead of one continent. Third time's the charm, huh Germany?
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Oct 8, 2014 21:29
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wdarkk posted:Third time's the charm, huh Fixed that for you.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:29
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computer parts posted:And soon it will be one nation instead of one continent. Well if by "soon" you mean 300 years then maybe. Nobody wants to be "European" over their distinct nationality. Well, maybe I'm too pessimistic. Who could have predicted what Europe looks like today in 2014 in 1914? Still, I have a hard time seeing it happening, especially if you mean like a nation state. Fabulous Knight fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 22:06
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Fabulous Knight posted:Well if by "soon" you mean 300 years then maybe. Nobody wants to be "European" over their distinct nationality. All you need's one good secessionist war, especially if the people trying to secede are doing it for dumb racist reasons that you can post facto justify crushing them into the dirt.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:36
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computer parts posted:All you need's one good secessionist war, especially if the people trying to secede are doing it for dumb racist reasons that you can post facto justify crushing them into the dirt. I see. The EU has 28 official languages. Only two of the member states use English as an official language and the rest are not about to give up on speaking their national languages because of an idea of a greater Europe. But as we know, languages are an important tool in constructing local and national identities. A national language almost carries within itself a separate "world" of cultural identity and that is partly why analogies with America, although often used, are a bit shabby. This is just one of the huge problems with the idea of a "national" EU. A federal state is plausible in the near-ish future, but the Eurozone crisis and austerity have, shall we say, ruined the festivities for quite some time to come. If you actually meant a nation as in a federal state or even used "nation" as a synonym for "country" then I am really being pedantic here and apologize in advance 
Fabulous Knight fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 23:07
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Fabulous Knight posted:I see. There's no reason you can't have multiple official languages - hell there's no reason you can't have *no* official language. Fabulous Knight posted:If you actually meant a nation as in a federal state or even used "nation" as a synonym for "country" then I am really being pedantic here and apologize in advance That is what the US is (or began as), but generally it will slip into a more united sense if the correct influences are there.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:11
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Fabulous Knight posted:I see. Also considering the recent re-emergence of regionalism in the UK, Belgium, Spain and elsewhere we still have a way to go.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:13
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khwarezm posted:Also considering the recent re-emergence of regionalism in the UK, Belgium, Spain and elsewhere we still have a way to go. Re-emergence? And these separatist movements are hardly a hindrance for a more integrated EU. Both the catalan and the scottish indepence movements are decidedly more pro-EU than Spain and the UK, respectively. For them, a Europe of regions makes a lot more sense than the current union of nation states.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:39
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cebrail posted:Re-emergence? My point was that National identity hasn't gone anywhere and seems to be strengthened by the EU, more integrated sure, but many of the small countries see the EU as a chance to strike off from Spain, the UK, France etc. Its in their interests to support the EU so long as it remains relatively loose, a European United States is not really what people are looking for. And I say re-emergence because none of these movements were anywhere near as powerful about 40 years ago. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 23:51
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Well, it's probably by far the richest, whitest part of the inner East Bay, isn't it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhawk,_California Nope, never underestimate the power of the inner east bay. Danville/Alamo is ultimate FYGM territory. EDIT: More accurately http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhawk-Camino_Tassajara,_California
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Oct 9, 2014 00:01
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khwarezm posted:Also considering the recent re-emergence of regionalism in the UK, Belgium, Spain and elsewhere we still have a way to go. Regionalism can benefit heavily when there's high level governments above the current states to lessen issues of setting up a new country.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:04
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Nintendo Kid posted:Regionalism can benefit heavily when there's high level governments above the current states to lessen issues of setting up a new country. See my other post.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:05
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khwarezm posted:See my other post. Your other post has nothing to do with it, seeing the European Union hasn't removed constituent state sovereignty yet.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:08
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khwarezm posted:My point was that National identity hasn't gone anywhere and seems to be strengthened by the EU, more integrated sure, but many of the small countries see the EU as a chance to strike off from Spain, the UK, France etc. Its in their interests to support the EU so long as it remains relatively loose, a European United States is not really what people are looking for. And I say re-emergence because none of these movements were anywhere near as powerful about 40 years ago. I know that in Spain, Franco had been busy crushing regional movements and restricting the use of their languages. In the UK I would speculate it has something to do with the splintering of the British Empire and the UK now being just a nation state that is dominated by its English majority population. But someone more knowledgeable than me can probably go into better detail on this. And France has been decentralizing pretty intensely the last 30 years. I am not exactly sure of the details of why that is. I wouldn't put any of this on the EU though. I also feel that many of these smaller nationalities don't exactly want independence, but greater autonomy in their own affairs.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:09
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JosefStalinator posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhawk,_California Well, the Tri Valley's technically middle east bay, right? I mean as a Fremont-raised guy, I always considered everything north of the Mission hills (e.g. Pleasanton, Livermore) to be "not inner east bay". But yeah, I remember Alamo on 680 was (is?) one of those places where the East Bay Tea Party would put up its NOBAMA NOVEMBER COMMIE HEALTHCARE signs.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:21
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Panas posted:I know that in Spain, Franco had been busy crushing regional movements and restricting the use of their languages. In the UK I would speculate it has something to do with the splintering of the British Empire and the UK now being just a nation state that is dominated by its English majority population. But someone more knowledgeable than me can probably go into better detail on this. Scotland's entrance into the EU was a major issue in the recent election, creating a new state that automatically enters the EU and is given access to the EU's Structural funds, the internal market as well as recognition of their languages as fully official is enticing, I feel that people in Scotland or Catalonia would not have considered it a Referendum worthy issue without those factors. In both the cases for Scotland and Catalonia Spain has tried to influence the outcome by suggesting that automatic accession to the EU would not be allowed. France still doesn't really do much at all to recognize and support minority languages, Brittany doesn't have anything like the autonomy of Wales or the Basque country, recognition of National minorities and decentralization is still far behind most of the rest of Europe. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 00:37
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Nintendo Kid posted:
In my mind, "Europe" always encompassed the area surrounding the Mediterranean as well, so I always tended to include the nations of North Africa, Anatolia, and the Levant in "Europe". Anyway, if we draw the boundaries around the purple to orange regions contiguous with "the Western Eurasian Area", we'd get a fairly decently sized continent, a little bigger than Australia.
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Oct 9, 2014 01:20
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computer parts posted:All you need's one good secessionist war, especially if the people trying to secede are doing it for dumb racist reasons that you can post facto justify crushing them into the dirt.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:37
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You need something to secede from first. The current EU is basically the US under the Articles of Confederation. Nothing a good war against the British won't fix. Go ahead, leave the EU. We'll make you come back 
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Oct 9, 2014 06:20
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khwarezm posted:Scotland's entrance into the EU was a major issue in the recent election, creating a new state that automatically enters the EU and is given access to the EU's Structural funds, the internal market as well as recognition of their languages as fully official is enticing, I feel that people in Scotland or Catalonia would not have considered it a Referendum worthy issue without those factors. In both the cases for Scotland and Catalonia Spain has tried to influence the outcome by suggesting that automatic accession to the EU would not be allowed. The President of the EU Commission has said years before the referendum that automatic accession and special exclusions would not be happening. The YES campaign was simply lying.
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Oct 9, 2014 06:42
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Riso posted:The President of the EU Commission has said years before the referendum that automatic accession and special exclusions would not be happening. The YES campaign was simply lying. The main hope seemed to be that it was a bluff. That, faced with the bureaucracy of disentangling Scotland from the EU, they would just cave and let them right in.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:27
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Well, the Tri Valley's technically middle east bay, right? I mean as a Fremont-raised guy, I always considered everything north of the Mission hills (e.g. Pleasanton, Livermore) to be "not inner east bay". Yeah, I'm an idiot who wrote inner instead of outer. You're right - Alamo/Danville is either outer or middle east bay. Also - the LaRouche people are active by the (one) Safeway in Alamo. I think they attract tea party people with the IMPEACH OBAMA signs.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:27
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Mike the TV posted:If someone could find a map of this, I'd appreciate it, but in the 60's Virginia Beach annexed all of Princess Anne County, making it the largest city in Virginia by area. No Puerto Rico? At least they are a commonwealth that is part of the US where commonwealth means it's something different from a state. Kentucky, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts are just fooling themselves.
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Oct 9, 2014 09:59
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Incoming BrittanypostPanas posted:And France has been decentralizing pretty intensely the last 30 years. I am not exactly sure of the details of why that is. I wouldn't put any of this on the EU though. I also feel that many of these smaller nationalities don't exactly want independence, but greater autonomy in their own affairs. The current debate on decentralization does include some talk of the EU, about creating regions of "European size". There's also a lot of comparison with German länder as proposed ideal level of decentralization. I don't know how things are going to shake out entirely but at the moment it seems like the new law is basically just going to transfer a lot of powers from departments and consolidate a lot of the smaller intercommunalités in the name of administrative efficiency. Of course, the law hasn't been voted on at all so we'll see what happens but as it stands decentralization is kind of a misnomer for the current efforts. And you're right that separatism is a minority opinion among smaller nationalities in France. It's unclear how strong support is for autonomy, polls aren't really taken on that question and election results don't show much support. The question itself is pretty touchy, I remember in 2012 when Bretons magazine commissioned a poll about separatism where 18% of people, including 53% of young people, expressed support for it the initial issue was quickly pulled from the shelves and then republished with a less provocative headline. I'm not saying it was a big conspiracy or anything, it's just a fairly taboo subject to talk about in public, no action from shadowy cabals needed. I'd be really interested in a poll on autonomy and separatism following the Bonnets Rouges movement and the Scottish referendum but I doubt we'll see anything like that anytime soon. There was a record protest a couple of weeks ago for the reunification of Brittany, the main demand of Breton nationalists and cultural activists (I consider myself to be in the second category) so people are a lot more riled up than before.   khwarezm posted:France still doesn't really do much at all to recognize and support minority languages, Brittany doesn't have anything like the autonomy of Wales or the Basque country, recognition of National minorities and decentralization is still far behind most of the rest of Europe. France's "support" of minority languages extends to allowing private immersion schools to exist and creating bilingual public schools. In the public schools it must be 50/50 French and the other language, but given that nearly everything outside of school is in French this isn't a very effective means of teaching the language. It's certainly better than it was 30 years ago but still pretty poo poo. Recognition of any sort of minority is a touchy issue for many in France as the state is officially colorblind towards ethnic or cultural minorities. Speaking of maps, a bit about the current territorial reorganization of France from 22 regions to, as the current proposal stands, 13. Initially the Ayrault government wanted 12 regions, including a merger of Brittany and Pays de la Loire. Jean-Yves Le Drian, current defense minister, former president of the Brittany regional council and close friend of Hollande convinced the President that it wasn't a particularly good idea as it was being proposed at the height of the Bonnets Rouges movement and could lead to more serious problems. Alsace is currently being folded into Lorraine and Champagne, despite the protests down there. Manuel Valls recently stated that the government didn't want Alsace to be on its own and thus "withdrawn into itself". There's a lot of fear in Brittany that we'll get fused with Pays de la Loire and maybe Centre later once things have calmed down a bit, but there are rumors floating around that Centre was left alone so that a law could be passed allowing Loire Atlantique to join Brittany and then the rest of Pays de la Loire to be fused with Centre. Who the hell knows really. 
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Oct 9, 2014 11:05
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The EU is supposed to be ruled bottom up; it even says so in treaties. The reality however is top down.
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Oct 9, 2014 11:10
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Hey, Soviet Commubot, I was looking up a bit about Breton Nationalism during the war and its reaction to the occupation and I found this: Its from the mid thirties, concerning some nationalists who were obsessed with the 'Irish example'. Some joined the Bezen Perrot and subsequently fled to Ireland after the war. you wouldn't know much about this would you? I'm surprised to see Pearse and the gang being lauded as martyrs for a totally different country.
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Oct 9, 2014 13:40
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khwarezm posted:Hey, Soviet Commubot, I was looking up a bit about Breton Nationalism during the war and its reaction to the occupation and I found this: In the 30s and 40s most of the fascists in Brittany were obsessed with Ireland, being the only independent Celtic country, and more than a few of them viewed the Irish as the most "pure" of the Celtic race. If you read French and want to see some crazy Celtic racism go read Celestin Lainé manifesto "Nos deux bases: Irlande et Prusse", "Our two bases: Ireland and Prussia". The Breiz Atao, Bezen Perrot, and other related groups were (and the tiny group of the same name still is) straight up Nazis who paraded around in Nazi uniforms during the war and went around killing suspected communists and Resistance members with the patronage of the German authorities. These groups were much smaller than the "Paotred ar c'hoad" pro-Allied resistance groups which were made up mostly of Gaullists except for the communist groups in central Brittany near Carhaix and the Monts d'Arre. Guys like Olier Mordrel and Celestin Lainé wanted to create their own IRA and had been in contact with the Germans prior to the war to try to get weapons and support for a planned uprising but the Germans decided it wasn't worth the effort and they believed (correctly, it turns out) that Mordrel and Lainé vastly overstated the amount of popular support they had. Ireland is where most Breton nationalists go when they get in too much trouble in France, this is true for both the Nazis in the 40s and the left wingers from the FLB-ARB in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Even now a lot of militants go to Ireland to study for a year or two during university although more and more go to Wales.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:13
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Given the absolute dominance of Paris, would a more federalized system even make sense for France? I get that it is kinda tautological, Paris is absolutely culturally and politically dominant because Paris is absolutely culturally and politically dominant, but isn't that also really true?
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Oct 9, 2014 16:06
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ArchangeI posted:Nothing a good war against the British won't fix. Go ahead, leave the EU. We'll make you come back
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Oct 9, 2014 16:18
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Oct 9, 2014 17:22
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 Good god that would be terrifying for a non-native to try and navigate, and I thought Moscow's was pretty awful when I lived there:
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Oct 9, 2014 17:35
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fermun posted:No Puerto Rico? At least they are a commonwealth that is part of the US where commonwealth means it's something different from a state. Kentucky, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts are just fooling themselves. Virginia has the best claim to the term in the continental US. It has weird quirks (like independent cities) that go back to the original settlements. Good point on Puerto Rico though. It should definitely be on that map.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:46
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