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NFL revenue is almost 9 billion annually. Almost 4 times the GDP of Liberia.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:46
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Fog Tripper posted:Is there a reason to not stop all outbound commercial flights from effected areas? Or are the health care folks getting to and from them on commercial flights? There have been zero cases of ebola being contracted in the US. It's a bit premature. Ebola can be stopped from spreading to the US population by thorough tracking. Thorough tracking requires that travelers be forthcoming about their origin, health, and contacts. Having 50-fold fewer travelers originating from West Africa would be fantastic in theory, but that reduction would come at a great cost whereby the few travelers who do come from ebola-stricken areas become actively evasive. It's sort of like smuggling contraband. Legal goods brought into the US are easy to count and track. Illegal goods aren't. That really sucks when tracking is the best front line weapon to prevent the spread of ebola. I'd rather have 50 known travelers from ebola countries, who can be checked for symptoms twice daily, than 1 single unknown person who is actively trying to hide that he broke the law. This is leaving aside the large mass of good arguments about what horrible poo poo it would do to West African countries. I'm arguing here from the perspective that the US shouldn't stop flights for purely selfish reasons. Also there are no commercial flights from West Africa to the US, so this would require major international cooperation, so it's a bit moot anyway.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:47
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Brannock posted:
I know, I just become angry when we, as a civilization/species, insist on proving diderot, montesquieu and their enlightenment-era compatriots right. In any case, I think it is perfectly reasonable for a westerner to be both unintimidated by the disease (in any personal sense) and also to support massive and decisive international intervention. I miss old-timey bleeding hearts. It feels like there are few left with any kind of public profile significant enough for advocacy. Everyone gotta realpolitik
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Oct 10, 2014 00:49
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:If it hits millions of cases in West Africa it's going to infect the rest of Africa, including Nigeria and South Africa. And probably the Middle East. And probably India. Possibly make its way into Latin America. We're already dealing with random international cases and there are only 8000 of them in West Africa. Outside of a total halt of all commercial flights (never happening) this is going global. South America should be easy to avoid. There are no direct flights between it and West Africa, the countries there do little if any business with Africa. If anything they'll shut down all flights to Africa. The only way it's going to spread is through indirect travel through Europe and North America.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:54
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laxbro posted:If this spreads to wealthy nations (or just japan) I guarantee we see a ton of money invested in robots capable of performing the basic functions of nurses and anyone else that has to regularly come in contact with potential ebola patients. The US healthcare system already has diseases that require precautions for nurses and doctors and they occur on a regular basis at every hospital. The precautions are not infallible since you require patient notification or medical records/test results, but any type of outbreak would probably just be a boost in sales of supplies to facilities while they just continue to rely on human personnel. Adequately trained, supplied, and performing personnel are far more effective at the treatment than you probably expect, not to mention far cheaper.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:54
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PupsOfWar posted:I know, I just become angry when we, as a civilization/species, insist on proving diderot, montesquieu and their enlightenment-era compatriots right. I think if we had a poll, most people talking in this thread would be all for doing positive work in Africa. Look at that loving ship sitting there for weeks with medical gear, however. When you have people in positions of power willing to let their own citizens die over a few bucks, what are you supposed to do?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:54
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Brannock posted:*thousands of Liberians die of Ebola* Um, why would you ever panic?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:55
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Did the hospital Thomas Duncan went to send him away because he was uninsured?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:58
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From the Telegraph article (which has stopped updating for the night):quote:21.25 A Spanish nurse who is the first person known to have been infected with Ebola outside Africa is at "serious risk" of dying after her condition worsened Thursday, officials have said.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:04
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VideoTapir posted:Did the hospital Thomas Duncan went to send him away because he was uninsured? I think it didn't occur to the Texas doctor to test the man who'd recently been in West Africa for Ebola after he showed up with fever symptoms. Duncan's family say he had told hospital staff he'd recently gotten in from Liberia, and Duncan was a Liberian citizen. It's most likely that the hospital down there in Texas hadn't gotten around to being proactive in testing fro Ebola when someone shows up with symptoms fitting early stages. Given, they're pretty inspecific - fever, abdominal pain, vomiting - but the guy showed up on September 25, so it wasn't like the virus wasn't known to be reaching epidemic levels in Liberia and Sierra Leone at least. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:06
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Brannock posted:*thousands of Liberians die of Ebola* You are a retard and should be shot. Also you misrepresented almost all your facts. How many ebola cases have been suspected in America and turned out to be false? I'd say the amount is well over 20 now.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:10
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VideoTapir posted:Did the hospital Thomas Duncan went to send him away because he was uninsured? No they did the classic quick checkup and then sent him away with some antibiotics.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:12
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SedanChair posted:Um, why would you ever panic? The point was that berating people to stay calm and not worry about this poo poo is having a counterproductive effect. This is actually a serious issue and should be taken seriously. Conflating someone saying "We need to do something about this" with "panic" is actually a really lovely disingenuous thing to do! Yet we have a bunch of smug know-it-alls rushing to go heh, this is nothing to worry about, peon. Were people "panicking" about global warming when it was still in its infantile stages and all the experts were going "Yo this is a serious situation and we better do something about it"? We probably should have. We didn't, and now we're dealing with the consequences, and anything we do about global warming is going to be damage control. Similarly, we didn't do much about this and now we're watching a country collapse in real time. Taking something seriously and taking measures to address it ahead of time, to prevent worse from happening, is not panic, and anticipating "worse" happening is not panic either.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:14
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No one is saying people in Liberia exposed to Ebola should not panic.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:16
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Arsenic Lupin posted:From the Telegraph article (which has stopped updating for the night): She's already on a ventilator? 
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Oct 10, 2014 01:16
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Brannock posted:The point was that berating people to stay calm and not worry about this poo poo is having a counterproductive effect. This is actually a serious issue and should be taken seriously. Conflating someone saying "We need to do something about this" with "panic" is actually a really lovely disingenuous thing to do! Yet we have a bunch of smug know-it-alls rushing to go heh, this is nothing to worry about, peon. Ebola is not going to kill the world, gently caress. How did you even come up with a global warming analogy? All you are doing is making GBS threads up the thread. Ebola Roulette posted:She's already on a ventilator? I think this is a good reminder, at least to me, that Ebola kills almost everybody. I was hoping that better medical care would change the outcomes. I'm not convinced of that anymore. Pohl fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:17
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Brannock posted:The point was that berating people to stay calm and not worry about this poo poo is having a counterproductive effect. This is actually a serious issue and should be taken seriously. Conflating someone saying "We need to do something about this" with "panic" is actually a really lovely disingenuous thing to do! Yet we have a bunch of smug know-it-alls rushing to go heh, this is nothing to worry about, peon. This is obviously a serious situation we need to get off our asses and do something about, but flipping out about IT'S COMING TO AMERICA AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE is stupid bullshit. America is not the place we need to worry about right now, it's loving West Africa.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:17
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Lemming posted:This is obviously a serious situation we need to get off our asses and do something about, but flipping out about IT'S COMING TO AMERICA AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE is stupid bullshit. America is not the place we need to worry about right now, it's loving West Africa. Please quote me where I said that or anything remotely close to it. In fact I've been talking about getting help for West Africa all along: look. Do people not bother to actually read posts? Pohl posted:Ebola is not going to kill the world, gently caress. How did you even come up with a global warming analogy? Because we were warned and we didn't do poo poo about it.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:26
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I'd say the majority of the world population lives in countries vulnerable to Ebola if it becomes a pandemic. Are people in the first world ok? Probably, but the first world is very much a minority of humanity.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:34
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euphronius posted:What do you own that is from west Africa. Ok it wil have an impact, but so does every event ever. A smoky volcano in Iceland had an impact on you. Doesn't the majority of Coltan, a rare earth mineral that is vital for computer chips, come from Africa? Also I think a sizeable chunk of the worlds copper, a huge portion of its rubber, and a not insignificant amount of oil etc etc? I'm no expert but I am under the impression that though the various African economies are small in terms of dollars that is mostly because the West vastly underpays them for what are some incredibly important raw materials. Yeah, maybe the stock market isn't going to fall because the economy of the DRC collapsed. But if Goodyear had to suddenly start rationing tire sales well.....
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Oct 10, 2014 01:36
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Brannock posted:Please quote me where I said that or anything remotely close to it. In fact I've been talking about getting help for West Africa all along: look. Do people not bother to actually read posts? Your dumb GBS post was entirely about directly implying that people in first world countries should panic about getting Ebola you dense fucker.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:38
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Are people in the first world ok? Probably I think the scenarios discussed in this thread (workaholic culture esp. in customer-facing positions, the indigent, lovely handling of patients within health care systems, the fact that health care workers are among my those at highest risk leading to increased propensity of health care system collapse and concomitant accelerated infection rates, etc.) disprove any argument that the first world won't sustain a pandemic. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:40
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One thing ebola might effect is chocolate prices if we're talking economic reprecussions of the virus. West Africa is one of the most important suppliers of cocoa. Better stock up on your Nestle Quik you nerds!
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Oct 10, 2014 01:41
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icantfindaname posted:How exactly? If you think this is going to cause a recession in China or w/e that's pretty ridiculous. Fact is the economy of West Africa is so tiny even complete collapse is not going to affect much outside the immediate area. Unless you're a stockbroker it's not going to affect you From the last page, this is such an incorrect train of logic that I'm unsure where to begin. I do work on developmental policy in Uganda. Various studies I've read show that 3% of the wealth generated from extractive processes makes it back to the original area of extraction. 3%. The rest is value added along the production chain until the point of sale, or, the GDP added to your country by the extractive resource. Supply chains are run in such a way that a sudden and unexpected 5% decline in quarterly iron ore supply could cause 40,000 union workers to be laid off in America. West Africa is so poor because it is so rich. Do you use palm oil? Do any of the products you use contain palm oil or consume palm oil during the manufacturing process? How about bananas? Rubber? Latex? Cobalt? Silver? Copper? Lead? Gold? E: New Division posted:One thing ebola might effect is chocolate prices if we're talking economic reprecussions of the virus. West Africa is one of the most important suppliers of cocoa. Better stock up on your Nestle Quik you nerds! We discussed this two months ago. Its too late for cocao prices. Already trebbled due to this outbreak. E2: Multiple the economic impact in West Africa by 33 and you come to a rough estimate for the immediate global economic impact. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:41
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Lemming posted:Your dumb GBS post was entirely about directly implying that people in first world countries should panic about getting Ebola you dense fucker. No it was about smug knowitalls rushing to tell each and every remotely concerned person to Not Panic and to forget about it because it won't affect them one bit.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:44
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My Imaginary GF posted:
Why.....  This is worse than ebola dog.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:46
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My Imaginary GF posted:Multiple the economic impact in West Africa by 33 and you come to a rough estimate for the immediate global economic impact. Does anyone want to tell me what this would do to a fragile global economy? We probably should have listened to the experts before this went nuclear! I guess that would be Panicking though. Seriously, if you're American, contact your local Representative and both of your Senators. Tell them to get their asses agitating to do something substantial about this before it gets worse. We missed the window to prevent it, now all we can do is damage control. But substantive damage control is still better than token aid. It doesn't take long to write out three emails.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:50
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I used to be pro-ebola and anti-not dying of ebola but Brannock has set me straight.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:55
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Brannock posted:Does anyone want to tell me what this would do to a fragile global economy? We probably should have listened to the experts before this went nuclear! I guess that would be Panicking though. Yes, but if assholes like Inhofe are pulling the sort of poo poo they are at the current level of funding, do you seriously expect three e-nails to convince them to do anything other than reactionary CLOSE THE BORDERS! posturing when asking for the 20 to 100-fold increase in funding and resources we actually need? The best part is that we don't even have to close the borders for the worst fears of those who oppose that action to happen (i.e. coyness about travel history). Populist scaremongering and racism will be just as effective at intimidating Ebola victims into silence.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:58
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FAUXTON posted:I think it didn't occur to the Texas doctor to test the man who'd recently been in West Africa for Ebola after he showed up with fever symptoms. Insurance was not a factor- the diagnostic questions get asked of every patient in that setting. The best theory the thread was able to come up with discussing his case was that the following happened: 1. When someone comes in for care, they're interviewed by a nurse who asks them diagnostic questions and enters their information on a computer system. 2. This system creates a profile of the patient, which is provided to a doctor who reads it and uses it to treat the patient. 3. The system is supposed to use a flag system to alter the doctor if the patient meets various criteria, such as the profile for a possible Ebola infection. 4. In this case, it appears that the nurse asked the questions and entered the information, but the hospital's system failed to flag the man as a potential Ebola case. 5. This is probably because the Electronic Health Record software the hospital was using (Prime, iirc) wasn't set up properly. 6. If this was the case, it is likely that there was no fault on the part of the physician or nurse, both of whom are trained to rely on the system to convey necessary information (the nurse and doctor may have never had a face-to-face interaction about the patient). 7. I received a partial confirmation of this theory from a recent discussion with someone from TX public health, who said that the problem was caused by a system failure, not due to personnel error. The setting made it inappropriate to ask for details.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:58
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FAUXTON posted:I think it didn't occur to the Texas doctor to test the man who'd recently been in West Africa for Ebola after he showed up with fever symptoms. This is not what happened. The Hospital did ask the question, the nurse did mark it in their system. The note from the nurse's system wasn't displayed in the doctor's system. Should the hospital's risk management team have figured this out? Hell yes. efb
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Oct 10, 2014 01:58
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Brannock posted:No it was about smug knowitalls rushing to tell each and every remotely concerned person to Not Panic and to forget about it because it won't affect them one bit. Nobody here is saying Ebola is not a huge problem you dense fucker. When people come in here asking if they should hide in the woods, saying "no" does not mean we are telling them to forget it exists or that we love Ebola.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:59
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New Division posted:Why..... I think "you should care about Ebola in West Africa because the outbreak there has already impacted the world economy" is a fairly relevant post but don't look at me I'm just an economist.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:03
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axeil posted:I think "you should care about Ebola in West Africa because the outbreak there has already impacted the world economy" is a fairly relevant post but don't look at me I'm just an economist. I think it will effect the world economy too.  Sorry if the joke was bad.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:06
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New Division posted:I think it will effect the world economy too. Oh. I thought you were saying "shut up about chocolate prices jeez"  Sorry!
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Oct 10, 2014 02:06
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axeil posted:Oh. I thought you were saying "shut up about chocolate prices jeez" It's all good.  
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Oct 10, 2014 02:07
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Discendo Vox posted:Insurance was not a factor- the diagnostic questions get asked of every patient in that setting. The best theory the thread was able to come up with discussing his case was that the following happened: Presbyterian retracted the statement that their electronic records were to blame. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/04/hospital-send-ebola-patient-home_n_5931780.html quote:We would like to clarify a point made in the statement released earlier in the week. As a standard part of the nursing process, the patient's travel history was documented and available to the full care team in the electronic health record (EHR), including within the physician's workflow.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:12
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Trabisnikof posted:Should the hospital's risk management team have figured this out? Hell yes.  So, not having fallback procedures developed beforehand for the intake of high-risk patients doesn't qualify?
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Oct 10, 2014 02:12
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Trabisnikof posted:This is not what happened. The Hospital did ask the question, the nurse did mark it in their system. The note from the nurse's system wasn't displayed in the doctor's system. This was stepped back, presumably after the electronic medical records company sent a very polite letter to the hospital. The nurse and doctor were both aware of travel history to West Africa.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:13
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Lemming posted:Nobody here is saying Ebola is not a huge problem you dense fucker. When people come in here asking if they should hide in the woods, saying "no" does not mean we are telling them to forget it exists or that we love Ebola. And not a single person said it's time to hide in the woods. What people are and have been saying is to not be surprised at the domino effects if and when it gets worse. What that means for any individual person depends on their particular situation.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:13
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