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The math worked... if Val and Jaclyn were ever targeting a guy. Which is why Josh said it can't get out that Baylor was going to receive votes. The girls were playing vindictively, targeting Baylor for some stupid reason (even before they got clued in). However, Rocker's lack of subtly made it clear to Josh that potentially the wrong person would be going home. It was still a gamble if Val's claim of two idol was real, but Josh knew better than to buy that load and made sure the vote went correctly. The initial idea was that the vote would be 3 votes Baylor, 3 votes Val, 2 votes to some dude. It wasn't stupid so much as a misunderstanding how the other girls felt about Baylor.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:44
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How did John not use the idol? Everyone is bad at this game. "Sure he told me he had an idol, but he's not going to use it on me!  "
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Oct 10, 2014 01:49
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Milovan Drecun posted:The math worked... if Val and Jaclyn were ever targeting a guy. Which is why Josh said it can't get out that Baylor was going to receive votes. The girls were playing vindictively, targeting Baylor for some stupid reason (even before they got clued in). However, Rocker's lack of subtly made it clear to Josh that potentially the wrong person would be going home. It was still a gamble if Val's claim of two idol was real, but Josh knew better than to buy that load and made sure the vote went correctly. The initial idea was that the vote would be 3 votes Baylor, 3 votes Val, 2 votes to some dude. It wasn't stupid so much as a misunderstanding how the other girls felt about Baylor. I think it was pretty stupid. It's for this exact reason that you don't split votes unless you have a solid 2/3 majority. The guys' math was fuzzy because they counted Baylor in both the majority and the minority. Putting 2 votes on Baylor and 4 on Val (which is what they did at the last second) makes much more sense with absolutely zero added risk. If the votes came out 4-2-2 for Val-Baylor-[any guy], even if Val plays an idol Baylor would still go home over the guy because they'd re-vote after the tie. I mean it doesn't matter too much if the guys' alliance really didn't care about whether Baylor or Val stayed, but the way they were acting was that Val was still the main target and ideally Baylor would stick around.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:45
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The thing you're missing is Val threatened two idols. That's why they acted as they did. Josh changed because he understood how improbable that would be and Rocker was acting shady. The plan called for Baylor to be a sacrifice if two idols were played, the guys assumed that Val and Jaclyn would target one of them. And ultimately, even if Val's plan had 'worked', Baylor would have been the one going home, something only Josh didn't want to see happen. The men concocted a plan where none of them could go home facing the worst case scenario.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:56
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Thanks to whoever had the thread stickied on viewing night. I don't see any good reasoning from anyone here defending the decision to get rid of Rocker. He would have been perfect to keep around until merge as a physical asset and he was reliable enough to count to stick to the plan especially after all that heat on him this episode. That tribe is in trouble. Rooting for Wes, Keith, Dale, Reed and Josh right now simply because they're all likable. Most of them may not be too savvy on strategy but it doesn't seem like anyone else in the game is either. I keep finding myself asking who Kelly is every time her name comes up. Vaguely recalled this from the last thread: quote:Who the gently caress is Kelly: Usually anybody named Kelly in any season of Survivor will be a totally generic, personality-less automaton, usually the boring cheerleader type.
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Oct 10, 2014 11:31
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There's a Kelly this season?
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Oct 10, 2014 11:33
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Rarity posted:There's a Kelly this season? Dale's daughter. I had to look it up in my own biography list too. 
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Oct 10, 2014 11:33
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Met posted:Dale's daughter. I had completely forgotten that Dale had a loved one.
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Oct 10, 2014 11:37
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I would argue that Jaclyn's loved one is more of a Kelly since I literally can't remember him doing anything except a brief moment of admiring his own biceps after he pushed someone off the platform in the second immunity challenge. EDIT: I'm seeing this season completely differently than most of you, because I'm enjoying the heck out of it and think there is some cooling gaming going on.
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Oct 10, 2014 12:05
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Met posted:Thanks to whoever had the thread stickied on viewing night. King Burgundy posted:Seriously. What is with all this weird Rocker defending. Dude was a bad sport and a creep even on the show.
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Oct 10, 2014 12:11
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I would argue that Jaclyn's loved one is more of a Kelly since I literally can't remember him doing anything except a brief moment of admiring his own biceps after he pushed someone off the platform in the second immunity challenge. Isn't he the guy with the crazy spider walk?
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Oct 10, 2014 12:12
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I think getting rid of Rocker was smart. I've heard time and time again from past winners that you want to keep people around that you can predict their decisions. It seems like Rocket had shown his choices were poor and undependable.
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Oct 10, 2014 12:27
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Anonymous Zebra posted:... Meh, I'm liking this season out of the gate too. I think we have a lot of posters here that maybe haven't seen past survivors AS they aired. I'm impressed that there are people actually playing the game already. How many seasons have we had where it takes almost until the merge for people to starting gaming instead of coasting? It's been great and the bigot is gone. I'm all for this season. E: My favorite thing about Rocker is that he was probably sold on the idea of letting people see the real side of him on the show and he pretty much is going to now be known as the guy that wanted to beat up women.  Oh you Rocker.
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Oct 10, 2014 12:48
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oneof27 posted:I think getting rid of Rocker was smart. I've heard time and time again from past winners that you want to keep people around that you can predict their decisions. It seems like Rocket had shown his choices were poor and undependable.
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Oct 10, 2014 13:32
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Rarity posted:There's a Kelly this season? They said her name and I instinctively said "Who the gently caress is Kelly?" because seriously who poor Kellys.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:49
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Fast Luck posted:I feel like he kind of got caught in the middle a bit after he made that promise to Jeremy, but he really did put in an effort to help Val and he really was (otherwise) loyal to his alliance. Actually, his plan to save Val was supposed to make her use her HII and boot another person not in the alliance, which wouldn't undermine his team at all, although in reality that plan would have backfired if the men voted 3-3. Basically my opinion on him is that he's an rear end in a top hat and kind of a moron but that I'm not sure if he deserves the disloyal/unreliable tag necessarily... he was trying to do right by all the people he owed something to. Yea, Rocker really didn't screw anybody but Josh, is already doing the same kind of poo poo with his Baylor alliance. I mean, it was a great play by Josh, but he was the one who really installed that narrative within the rest of Rocker's alliance and only to help himself personally.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:52
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Rarity posted:Isn't he the guy with the crazy spider walk? That's the one!
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Oct 10, 2014 15:16
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I would argue that Jaclyn's loved one is more of a Kelly since I literally can't remember him doing anything except a brief moment of admiring his own biceps after he pushed someone off the platform in the second immunity challenge. How could you forget a dude who wishes he had a tail. It really is pretty implausible that they managed to cast another dud Kell(e)y, but I guess when you have the chance to get someone as dynamic as Dale on television you do whatever it takes
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Oct 10, 2014 15:24
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Fast Luck posted:I feel like he kind of got caught in the middle a bit after he made that promise to Jeremy, but he really did put in an effort to help Val and he really was (otherwise) loyal to his alliance. Actually, his plan to save Val was supposed to make her use her HII and boot another person not in the alliance, which wouldn't undermine his team at all, although in reality that plan would have backfired if the men voted 3-3. Basically my opinion on him is that he's an rear end in a top hat and kind of a moron but that I'm not sure if he deserves the disloyal/unreliable tag necessarily... he was trying to do right by all the people he owed something to. I agree with you guys, mostly, but I think it's stretching to say he was reliable. I do think in his moronic way, he wasn't being disloyal. But he revealed sensitive information to advance his own agenda (keeping his pair safe) which wasn't going to serve his alliance down the line. Why should any one of the guys care about their allies' counterparts? They'll need some, not all. And 3 weeks later what happens if there's a true Pagonging? Rocker probably survives that because of his idol, does he save Val then? And Val would virtually be in the same position this last week, so Rocker would be again put to the test between Jeremy/Josh and co, and her idol bluff may have gained steam. His play was definitely moronic and uneven but I don't think there was any ill intent.. which makes him kind of stupider. And he was vocal in a way that he drew his own target on his back. Like people who think Rocker shouldn't have gone, were you not dropping you jaws and muttering 'shut up' when he outed himself at reward?
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Oct 10, 2014 16:03
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Milovan Drecun posted:I agree with you guys, mostly, but I think it's stretching to say he was reliable. I do think in his moronic way, he wasn't being disloyal. But he revealed sensitive information to advance his own agenda (keeping his pair safe) which wasn't going to serve his alliance down the line. Why should any one of the guys care about their allies' counterparts? They'll need some, not all. And 3 weeks later what happens if there's a true Pagonging? Rocker probably survives that because of his idol, does he save Val then? And Val would virtually be in the same position this last week, so Rocker would be again put to the test between Jeremy/Josh and co, and her idol bluff may have gained steam. His play was definitely moronic and uneven but I don't think there was any ill intent.. which makes him kind of stupider. And he was vocal in a way that he drew his own target on his back. Oh yea. It was a really dumb thing to say.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:31
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Haha, I didn't even realize that the girl's name is literally Kelley. I thought we were talking about Kelleys in the metaphorical sense, but nope, I take back my previous statement because obviously if I didn't even know her name then she is a true Kelley. I feel like there is some paradox in that statement but I'm standing by it.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:47
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Rocker being bad at Survivor is a big part of why it was a questionable decision to cut him this early. The guy is a moron and will reliably piss people off more each week. He should be the easiest guy in the world to cut whenever you need to.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:51
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BGrifter posted:Rocker being bad at Survivor is a big part of why it was a questionable decision to cut him this early. The guy is a moron and will reliably piss people off more each week. He should be the easiest guy in the world to cut whenever you need to. He's not reliable enough to keep around as a goat.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:54
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Piell posted:He's not reliable enough to keep around as a goat. Not long term. He's worth keeping as a human shield for that first post merge vote though, especially with the chaos the BvW twist is likely to cause.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:02
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The point is that Rocker is no risk long term so there's no reason to NOT utilize him in the team challenge stage until you absolutely have no other recourse.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:16
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I am always happy to see a blindside when someone has an idol because there have been too many times that someone with an idol just skates by and then the opportunity to blindside them is lost. But that only happens when the idol-haver is in the majority alliance and the alliance won't flip on him, and Rocker will never ever be in the majority alliance after the merge. But then the issue becomes kind of like Terry in Panama where the majority alliance simply can't get rid of him because the fucker won't stop winning challenges. I expected Rocker to be really successful in any strength-based challenges (I don't count the sumo-style challenge as strength-based) and we hadn't seen any of those so far. Basically I think keeping him and getting rid of him both had their merits and ultimately, I probably would've wanted him gone just because he's a turd.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:23
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DaisyDanger posted:But then the issue becomes kind of like Terry in Panama where the majority alliance simply can't get rid of him because the fucker won't stop winning challenges. I suspect he'd have been more like James from China where he was an asset on the team based pre-merge challenges but not much of a threat once we got to the individual challenges. Too many balance or dexterity challenges like that one duel he lost to his girlfriend post merge for him to be a problem.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:31
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Haha, I didn't even realize that the girl's name is literally Kelley. I thought we were talking about Kelleys in the metaphorical sense I'm starting to realize I'm horrible at paying attention pre-merge because I saw the Kelly talk and didn't realize there was an actual Kelly either. (but seriously, the contestants can't even keep track of Josh Vs Reid so I don't feel too bad)
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Oct 10, 2014 19:14
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Kelley is fittingly the most invisible player in the game so far, but to be fair, almost no one in that tribe has gotten any time in the edit so far.
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Oct 10, 2014 20:02
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Listening to the John Rocker exit interview on RHAP and holy poo poo. Talking about the Twinnies "They say things that could make a dark man blush". "It comes to a loving turning point after you've been getting motherfucked for a minute and a half already, now you're getting motherfucked personally. It comes to a point do I sit here and take it and look like a pussy, or do I fight back and look like an rear end in a top hat. So I chose rear end in a top hat."
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Oct 10, 2014 20:06
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Another reason to get rid of Rocker that no one's mentioned: given how much that tribe is losing, they can't really afford to enter the merge with the other tribe united together in their hostility against the perceived leader. Josh is more useful to a new alliance at the merge if he comes with an extra reliable vote in the form of Baylor or Dale, than he is with all the baggage and hostility that Rocker brings. A vote shield like Rocker only works in getting you one spot further; if Josh (or anyone on that tribe) wants to win he needs an entirely new alliance. Granted, this is a Blood vs. Water season, so merge alliances are probably a free-for-all anyway, but it's still something to consider.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:31
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I'm pretty sure there are people who have not had a spoken word so far on this season, but Kelley is not one of them plus she's hot so she gets a lot of screen time.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:23
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Bigass Moth posted:I'm pretty sure there are people who have not had a spoken word so far on this season, but Kelley is not one of them plus she's hot so she gets a lot of screen time. I'm trying to think of who's gotten less screen time than Kelley and I can't do it. Maybe Missy?
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Oct 10, 2014 22:48
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rafington posted:I'm trying to think of who's gotten less screen time than Kelley and I can't do it. Maybe Missy? Reed
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Oct 11, 2014 00:13
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None of the women aside from Baylor or Natalie has made much of an impression so far
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Oct 11, 2014 00:20
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Poque posted:None of the women aside from Baylor or Natalie has made much of an impression so far Val 
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Oct 11, 2014 00:24
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Whose name is Reed KELLY
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Oct 11, 2014 03:33
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I get why they voted Rocker off. Like other people said, he's unreliable. He was literally telling the person they were trying to blindside what they were doing. Not something you want on your team if you want to make it to the end. He's decent in challenges, but not actually amazing. I don't think there's anybody they could have voted off that would have significantly *increased* their chances of winning challenges. Rocker also openly admitted he had a secret deal with a member of the other team, meaning, as a member of his guy alliance, that he has post-merge plans with 3 people other than you and has already undermined one of your plans to cement that alliance, even if he ultimately went along with it. It also means that if you make a secret deal with him he will tell everyone. He also had an immunity idol, and if a person gets to hang onto an idol with everyone knowing they have it for too long they have a very strong tendency to gain control over the game or at least their alliance. You don't want someone actually in control of the game other than you. This all adds up to someone you don't really want in the game. And there's a bit if a time window in the heat of the moment where everyone's been riled up against him, and he probably believes most people don't know about his idol and also his own alliance wants to stay strong or whatever. Post-tribal-shakeup, the idol becomes more powerful both because people don't have their original alliances to latch onto, and because he is more likely to actually play it. Dude had an idol, it wasn't a smooth-sailing "keep the strong guy around till the merge" situation. They could either vote him out now or risk that idol being turned against them. And now, there is a very good chance that idol is re-hidden at their camp and one of them has a chance of getting it. If I were on this season I'd love to be in final tribal next to Rocker, but I think his own alliance rightfully didn't feel like they could get there. Plus voting John out kind of helps brings the girls back into the fold. You don't want people on your tribe who are eager to vote for you after a shake-up. At least with this vote they can say hey, I know I was against you before but that was just how the alliances ended up, you know you can reason with me and I have made votes in your favour before when you were potentially on the chopping block.
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Oct 11, 2014 04:12
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Piell posted:Whose name is Reed KELLY 
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Oct 11, 2014 04:26
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Piell posted:Whose name is Reed KELLY 
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Oct 11, 2014 05:10
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