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I mean I still like Emma, but I think it's important to understand authorial intent.
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Oct 13, 2014 13:38
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I like Fraw Bow.
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Oct 13, 2014 13:49
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Heck if we're bringing up examples I'm gonna use the entire female cast of Xabungle because in that show the men hit women, the women hit men, they both hit children and vice-versa. Slapstick equality makes it a fun time for everyone involved.
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Oct 13, 2014 14:11
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Sharkopath posted:Sara/Cynthia/Adette/Ana/Sochie/Lily/Kihel/Etc are the examples to use. I tried to stick to Zeta characters to make the comparisons more obvious. Fair point though. And the best female character in King Gainer is Asuham's sister.
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Oct 13, 2014 14:27
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Srice posted:I was mainly focusing on: Why is it terrible in this case even though the director has had dudes cry under very similar circumstances? Have they cried in that many episodes in a row, which, for right now, is every episode? If Aida cried once or twice, or a few times across the series it'd be different.
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Oct 13, 2014 14:57
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They cried when bad things happened to them, or people they cared about. The number is less important than how it was handled! (There's a reason why everyone makes fun of the times Kira cried, yet nobody makes fun of other Gundam protagonists for doing so) Srice fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 15:02
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Engaging Caros/Wickedhate is a bad idea since they don't really seem to want to have a real discussion at all, they'll just double down on their point without elaborating it. Still though, I'll repeat what I said earlier in about five different variations: The frequency of emotional outbursts doesn't matter that much, especially if it's used as a method of showing the characters growth over time. Several Incidents of failing to your grief in a row can serve as a simple contrast to a new found inner strength found over the course of the journey. It's a very simple character arc. Even if that arc never manifests, and Aida remains an emotional person throughout the whole journey, why is that a bad thing? Why are you ascribing negative connotations to emotions, why is it a sin to cry, or laugh, or feel deep felt despair? Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 15:07
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It ignores her actual role in the story so far, that of the driving force. She's the main character currently, even though Bellri is the one we are following. As of the latest episode Bell is the Gundam Pilot Girlfriend, he's taken the literal backseat and is just following her around. She's aligned with what we believe to be the protagonist faction, she's the one who feels the strongest about the state of the world as is, she's the most rounded character in the show right now.
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Oct 13, 2014 15:14
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I like that there is an opposing viewpoint in this thread though, because it makes me really think about why I like these characters, and all that thinking just makes me appreciate them more.
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Oct 13, 2014 15:16
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Sharkopath posted:Even if that arc never manifests, and Aida remains an emotional person throughout the whole journey, why is that a bad thing? No one is doing that and that's been stated a lot already. Don't build strawmen. The frequency is why people think it's a negative point, it's ridiculous and not arguing against it at all to say "just ignore how much she cried that doesn't matter". That's the whole reason it's an issue.
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Oct 13, 2014 15:19
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Also, in regards to the crying, she cries for only seconds in each episode, in entirely reasonable situations, where it'd be weird for her NOT to cry. Compare/contrast to entire episodes spent with the primary protagonists acting like spoiled children in 0079 and Zeta.
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Oct 13, 2014 15:20
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WickedHate posted:No one is doing that and that's been stated a lot already. Don't build strawmen. The frequency is why people think it's a negative point, it's ridiculous and not arguing against it at all to say "just ignore how much she cried that doesn't matter". That's the whole reason it's an issue. She's probably cried for less than 30 seconds total, this entire show. Once when she was potentially facing execution, and the other times in regards to the death of her mentor and potential love/lover.
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Oct 13, 2014 15:21
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WickedHate posted:No one is doing that and that's been stated a lot already. Don't build strawmen. The frequency is why people think it's a negative point, it's ridiculous and not arguing against it at all to say "just ignore how much she cried that doesn't matter". That's the whole reason it's an issue. I'm not ignoring the frequency of emotion, I'm stating that's what makes her a good character. There's a fundamental opposition here, in that you think crying makes her a bad character, and I think it makes her a better one. That scene where she starts to tear up when she's discussing the captain with bell is the most realistic depiction of someone dealing with their grief I've seen tomino do.
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Oct 13, 2014 15:24
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At what point does Aida crying a lot become Tomino making fun of Gundam SEED? The problem with immediately jumping on the sexism bandwagon on episode 1 is that Japan is a comparatively sexist country. Any time I watch an Anime I do so knowing from the outset that I'm going to have to be balancing the characters against "Oh, goddamn it Japan" moments. My question is: is this more sexist than other Tomino shows or other Gundam shows in general? After watching Gundam AGE and being forced to see nearly every supporting woman die horribly for cheap pathos I have to say Recon-G's doing pretty well for a "boy show" from Japan about giant robots featuring a main character who is a young man who will likely be expected to perform some number of "heroic" acts (like heroically shooting Aida's commanding officer to death, and heroically rescuing her from a castle tower she was escaping just fine on her own). We're three episodes in now and already the women in Recon-G are present and have presence. They act on the world around them and seem to be one of the driving factors of the story so far. This is much, much better than the women in Gundam AGE who either stood around doing nothing and letting men make all the decisions, made babies and got abandoned for 15 years (with a smile!), or got introduced for the sole purpose of getting killed 2-3 episodes later. The show could still disappoint me, but my expectations were very low going in and I have been pleasantly surprised so far at how few "Oh, goddamn it Japan" moments I've seen.
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Oct 13, 2014 16:00
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Gundam AGE is preeeeeeetty much the series' lowpoint in almost all regards (including treatment of women) so I don't think using that as a point of comparison is very valuable.
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Oct 13, 2014 16:10
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It's the most recent episodic Gundam show, it is absolutely worth considering. The best question we can ask is: do the women in the show have agency? Everyone's going to judge that on their own experiences and expectations but I personally think the women have and do show Agency. Other people clearly don't (and I find your reasoning interesting) and other people are going to need more time to make up their minds. Edit: Gundam AGE didn't start to show its incredibly creepy side until about 7-8 episodes in, so Recon-G could still disappoint me. I just want more of it to be out so I can make an actually informed choice. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 16:28
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PoptartsNinja posted:It's the most recent episodic Gundam show, it is absolutely worth considering. Other than build fighters you mean.
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Oct 13, 2014 18:37
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PoptartsNinja posted:It's the most recent episodic Gundam show, it is absolutely worth considering. The most recent is Build Fighters but that isn't exactly a paragon either. I otherwise do agree though. It is why I'll defend Aida (who seems to have actual agency so far even despite some questionable moments) vs Monday (GEEEEEEEEEEEEEE) who so far has proven to be kinda crap no matter how much poop-watching she does. The fact that Aida is taking Bell back to her folks gives me hope that he gets the G-Self for reasons besides "he is the best for it because of his penis" and that the G-Arcane is represented as a reasonable alternative rather than being a downgrade. We'll see how it turns out. With Tomino it could go either way. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 18:42
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The HG boxes call them Gundam G-Self and Gundam G-Arcane, so I'd guess it's at least a reasonable alternative on paper.
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Oct 13, 2014 18:56
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In Aura Battler Dunbine, the titular mecha is widely acknowledged as being a lovely prototype and having no business whatsoever being the unstoppable menace it turns out to be in Shou's hands. So hey, Tomino has done it before, just not in Gundam. 
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Oct 13, 2014 20:38
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Okay, so the state of the world is pretty clear now. Cool! Apparently in the past energy conflicts got bad enough that everyone (or maybe just the victors of one war or another) decided to give a monopoly on energy production to one non-state entity. Opposing this entity was theoretically impossible due to everyone being dependent on them, and so their only concern were pirates- hence the Capital Guard (pretty intriguing that they're starting up an army now... things must be breaking down). Opposing this entity was also discouraged by quasi-religious or maybe even actual-religious taboo. Personally this concept is a bit iffy to me, how it would actually work, but it's a really Tomino idea, and it gets to the heart of things well enough that I can enjoy it. Especially because it leads to the interesting situation where His Holiness has a great deal of clout in Capital. Of course he would, he's as much responsible for their defense as their military or their energy monopoly. This isn't just a random future theocracy for no reason- it makes sense. There's a lot of seeming anachronisms like that- the shells are probably because energy is at a premium so Ameria resorts back to chemical propelled projectiles. Old-timey phones make sense when minovsky particles would disrupt wireless ones. All the public art is because the impressive presentation of the buildings are important to the mystique and taboo that protects the place (instead of the Classical grandeur of the Vatican, they went with postmodern(?) abstract stuff, which is kind of hilarious, as they're both quoting a millennia old style). Some thought went into this world. I like that this setup can be read as allegory for a few different things. Most obviously, Ameria is dependent on energy sources from a faraway theocracy and is starting an aggressive war to secure its energy independence. If you want to stretch things- there's a narrative that Japan attacked the US only after the US had cut off oil exports to Japan (protesting their intervention in French Indochina). By that narrative, the US had to know exactly how Japan had to react when its oil was cut off, so it was basically America forcing the war to happen. I have no idea how popular that narrative is in Japan or if Tomino's referencing it, but it seems a bit similar. (Even if these are inspirations for this situation, I wouldn't read them as commentary on real events, rather it seems like they're just flavor here. The only message here is "don't use technology/energy like fuckwits, humanity.") I think we can presume what was cut out of the other episode now- we can't just cover the Earth with solar panels because nations managing their own energy resources would inevitably use them to steal their neighbors resources and humanity would be plunged back into all-consuming war. Only with the careful management of the Capital Tower can humanity be saved from itself. It makes sense that he'd get slapped for saying that. The terribleness of this thread is kind of shocking to me. I guess I don't spend enough time in ADTRW, as it seems like this might be kind of normal? Honestly, I'm enjoying this more than I did Turn A at a similar point. Like, Turn A had a great premise that got bogged down in "woman who can't do anything and cries every episode" and "'hilarious' brain damaged enemy ace with two moon-hick sidekicks" nonsense pretty quick as the main antagonists. Corin Nander and his sideckicks ended up being awesome, but I wasn't anywhere nearly sold on them at the start when I was first watching Turn A. I'm honestly enjoying the characters way more than I was in Turn A at this point (except Loran was, from episode one, the best Gundam protagonist ever). Basically, while this could very easily turn to poo poo, it seems self defeating to assume that at this point. This ain't a "nothing to lose might as well have low expectations" kind of thing. You can ruin the experience for yourself if you're determined to. So just... roll with it for now. If it's poo poo when it's over, it's poo poo, and you haven't lost anything by trying to enjoy it. Right now it's shrodinger's poo poo. Any debates about its shitness are pointless. That's not to say any criticism is unjustified... just that it feels kind of hyperbolic to me at this point. Your triple posts are the best thing in this thread. Eiba fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 21:08
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Eiba posted:Basically, while this could very easily turn to poo poo, it seems self defeating to assume that at this point. This ain't a "nothing to lose might as well have low expectations" kind of thing. You can ruin the experience for yourself if you're determined to. So just... roll with it for now. If it's poo poo when it's over, it's poo poo, and you haven't lost anything by trying to enjoy it. Right now it's shrodinger's poo poo. Any debates about its shitness are pointless. This is a terrible mindset to have and basically boils down to "you're not allowed to criticize anything!" Gundam shows have a lot of bad. Even the good Gundam shows have a lot of bad. It is possible for a show to have both good elements and bad elements or for an element that is bad to eventually become something good while still being bad early on. You keep saying "roll with it! Have fun! Stop being critical!" That isn't how I enjoy things. Even things I enjoy, I will be critical of. v  v
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 21:16
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Eiba posted:Your triple posts are the best thing in this thread. I agree that the world setup is really interesting right now . My only complaints besides Monday is that I wish the pacing was a bit slower even, I would have liked an episode of just bell going about his day before the gundam arrives, its shame for a character driven show to only run 25, compared to turn as full run.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:20
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Sharkopath posted:I apologize for them, Instead of doing big structured prewritten walls of text I just throw my ideas down as I think of them. Of all the things I can say about the pacing, slow isn't one of them. It's breakneck. More time to breathe would probably help it, but I get the feeling an upcoming episode will do that.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:22
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Eiba posted:Basically, while this could very easily turn to poo poo, it seems self defeating to assume that at this point. This ain't a "nothing to lose might as well have low expectations" kind of thing. You can ruin the experience for yourself if you're determined to. So just... roll with it for now. If it's poo poo when it's over, it's poo poo, and you haven't lost anything by trying to enjoy it. Right now it's shrodinger's poo poo. Any debates about its shitness are pointless. On the contrary, I actually really do want to like it. I've been excited over it for a long while and so far the first few episodes have been really disappointing. You can't just tell people to stop criticizing things until it's finished. What's came out so far isn't that great, and even if the show does turn out to be really good(which I hope it does), the first few episodes will still be lower quality.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:24
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ImpAtom posted:This is a terrible mindset to have and basically boils down to "you're not allowed to criticize anything!" I guess I'm arguing against the general impression I got, rather than any individual. Which is stupid in retrospect, as there's a bunch of people saying different things, some reasonable, some silly, and throwing out a "y'all need to relax" isn't likely to hit the mark. Sorry 'bout that. Sharkopath posted:I apologize for them, Instead of doing big structured prewritten walls of text I just throw my ideas down as I think of them.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:33
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Personally, I'm really excited about what will be revealed/happen in the enxt few episodes, and I really hope the rumors of a the real opening not being used due to spoielrs is real, ebcause it emans something big is going to go down soon-ish.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:37
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Eiba posted:I guess I'm arguing against the general impression I got, rather than any individual. Which is stupid in retrospect, as there's a bunch of people saying different things, some reasonable, some silly, and throwing out a "y'all need to relax" isn't likely to hit the mark. Well, I can't blame you, there was a pretty bad period after the first two episodes. But yeah, people don't hate this show (well, most people), but there are elements worthy of being critical of even if you're enjoying it.(And I am enjoying it! More than I did the first episodes of 00 or Age at bare minimum.)
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Oct 13, 2014 21:43
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What sub groups are people finding for this? I'm not finding anything with english subs. We can ask about sub groups for this right?
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Oct 14, 2014 01:39
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Can we get to discussing how dumb the D-Pad mechs look in G-Reco? Like, how does the 4-arrow face unit even work, if it even does anything?
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Oct 14, 2014 02:02
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Jegan Ace posted:Can we get to discussing how dumb the D-Pad mechs look in G-Reco? Considering the Recterns are very obviously re-purposed construction
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Oct 14, 2014 02:05
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/\/\/\ Recten's going to get you!
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Oct 14, 2014 02:07
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Considering the Recterns are very obviously re-purposed construction Damnit Neddy, stop making me want to rewatch Patlabor. I didn't actually notice that they did that. Also, if you've seen the Gehenam HG kit (sp?), I get some real Zanscare vibes from that.
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Oct 14, 2014 02:08
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Jegan Ace posted:Can we get to discussing how dumb the D-Pad mechs look in G-Reco? They look just the right amount of outlandish, considering they're largely unimportant worker mechs.
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Oct 14, 2014 02:12
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Jegan Ace posted:Damnit Neddy, stop making me want to rewatch Patlabor. Never.  Da-da-da-daaaa da-da DA DA!
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Oct 14, 2014 02:13
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Somebody speculated on Capital's base location about a million pages ago. Remember that the upper terminus of a space elevator has to be at geostationary orbit - above the equator, so Capital has to be in South America (did we ever find out exactly where Jaburo was? I like that idea too), Africa, or one of the Indonesian islands.
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Oct 14, 2014 05:10
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Midjack posted:Somebody speculated on Capital's base location about a million pages ago. Remember that the upper terminus of a space elevator has to be at geostationary orbit - above the equator, so Capital has to be in South America (did we ever find out exactly where Jaburo was? I like that idea too), Africa, or one of the Indonesian islands. It's South Ameri  It got added to the G-Reco post on GundamGuy just a few days back.
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Oct 14, 2014 05:31
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's South Ameri Finally, the Unified Pan-African State became reality.
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Oct 14, 2014 05:33
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Sharkopath posted:Finally, the Unified Pan-African State became reality. I wonder if Ameria uses the Amero as their currency.
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Oct 14, 2014 05:37
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 14:04 |
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Does it mention in that text if the grey areas are unaffiliated nations or just like... ...gone gone?
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Oct 14, 2014 05:39
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