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I wonder if another few cases are found in the US over the next couple weeks, which doesn't seem too outrageous, will communities freak out and cancel halloween trick or treating?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 05:43 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 05:02 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This just isn't true. Ebola is highly infectious and the slightest bit of infected bodily fluid (including sweat) coming in contact with the tiniest of cuts, nose, eyes, mouth, etc will pretty much infect you. The whole "you have to basically roll around in their vomit" meme is bullshit. You still have to gently caress up on a level akin to sticking your arm in a vat of infected feces, I.e. loving up following BCP and wiping your contaminated gloves all over your arms/wiping your hands all over your contaminated apron.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 05:45 |
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mod sassinator posted:I wonder if another few cases are found in the US over the next couple weeks, which doesn't seem too outrageous, will communities freak out and cancel halloween trick or treating? On the bright side Ebola is real pope hat can make for a easy costume
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 05:49 |
FAUXTON posted:You still have to gently caress up on a level akin to sticking your arm in a vat of infected feces, I.e. loving up following BCP and wiping your contaminated gloves all over your arms/wiping your hands all over your contaminated apron. That's, um, not true. What sort of viral load do you think is sufficient to cause infection?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:03 |
Discendo Vox posted:That's, um, not true. What sort of viral load do you think is sufficient to cause infection?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:04 |
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FAUXTON posted:You still have to gently caress up on a level akin to sticking your arm in a vat of infected feces, I.e. loving up following BCP and wiping your contaminated gloves all over your arms/wiping your hands all over your contaminated apron. quote:Dear Colleagues, My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:13 |
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Discendo Vox posted:That's, um, not true. What sort of viral load do you think is sufficient to cause infection? The sort of viral load sufficient to compromise properly handled PPE. Seriously if you've picked up dog poo poo with those hand baggies you turn inside out, then you are smart enough to follow BCP regarding donning/disrobing PPE. It's just as simple, you don't loving touch the outside of the garment. Ebola is not nerve gas.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:16 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This just isn't true. Ebola is highly infectious and the slightest bit of infected bodily fluid (including sweat) coming in contact with the tiniest of cuts, nose, eyes, mouth, etc will pretty much infect you. The whole "you have to basically roll around in their vomit" meme is bullshit. So you're saying 40 years of research is wrong now? Enlighten us, medical wizard bringing the conspiracy down.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:18 |
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Nintendo Kid posted:So you're saying 40 years of research is wrong now? Enlighten us, medical wizard bringing the conspiracy down. What exactly did I say that goes against 40 years of medical research on ebola?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:31 |
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I think people are getting probable and possible confused.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:37 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:What exactly did I say that goes against 40 years of medical research on ebola? No virus was found in urine (0 of 11), vomit (0 of 2), sputum (0 of 2), sweat (0 of 1), or the body louse (0 of 1). The part where you did poo poo like claim sweat was a method of infection.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:39 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:What exactly did I say that goes against 40 years of medical research on ebola? "Ebola is highly infectious and the slightest bit of infected bodily fluid (including sweat) coming in contact with the tiniest of cuts, nose, eyes, mouth, etc will pretty much infect you." Did ebola kill your short term memory?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:41 |
quote:Because the natural reservoir host of Ebola viruses has not yet been identified, the manner in which the virus first appears in a human at the start of an outbreak is unknown. However, researchers believe that the first patient becomes infected through contact with an infected animal. That's the CDC. Fauxton, you're quoting an article on sweat transmission with an n of 1. Notice how they don't discuss it in the conclusion. This also appears to predate the research on infectious levels, which are 1 to 10 particles. It really takes remarkably little exposure. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:48 |
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FAUXTON posted:No virus was found in urine (0 of 11), vomit (0 of 2), sputum (0 of 2), sweat (0 of 1), or the body louse (0 of 1). The CDC does list sweat as a method of transmission. quote:When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with You're talking about a single sample of sweat and using it to draw huge unsupported generalizations about every single sample of sweat from every patient. Maybe the sample dried out and the carried virus died before processing, or maybe the sample was taken too early.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:49 |
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FAUXTON posted:No virus was found in urine (0 of 11), vomit (0 of 2), sputum (0 of 2), sweat (0 of 1), or the body louse (0 of 1). Did you not read what I just posted from Emory's team? quote:Nutritional depletion was evident as well.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 06:50 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This just isn't true. Ebola is highly infectious and the slightest bit of infected bodily fluid (including sweat) coming in contact with the tiniest of cuts, nose, eyes, mouth, etc will pretty much infect you. The whole "you have to basically roll around in their vomit" meme is bullshit. I'm getting conflicting messages here. Here's what I've heard from this thread: 1) What you've posted above 2) 1-10 viruses are enough to cause infection 3) In the late stages of the disease, ebola patients lose liquids rapidly -- 5-10 liters per day according to what MIGF posted. 4) In a non-hospital environment, i.e. with no PPE, the *average* ebola patient will infect two others. It doesn't seem possible for all four of those to be true. What am I missing?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:03 |
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Grundulum posted:I'm getting conflicting messages here. Here's what I've heard from this thread: *median* R0 is 95% CI 2-3.55, from a phylogenetic analysis of transmision in rural settings with a limited sample size and an introductory event which was responsible for 14 cases detected by the study in Sierra Leone only.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:06 |
Grundulum posted:I'm getting conflicting messages here. Here's what I've heard from this thread: As for 4, this number may be substantially lower in the West.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:10 |
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Grundulum posted:It doesn't seem possible for all four of those to be true. What am I missing? When you're feverishly sweating, making GBS threads, and vomiting 5-10 liters of water per day, you tend not to be ambulatory enough to rack up huge numbers of contacts to spread the disease to. In rural areas distance between small settlements may also help minimize contact networks.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:13 |
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FAUXTON posted:You still have to gently caress up on a level akin to sticking your arm in a vat of infected feces, I.e. loving up following BCP and wiping your contaminated gloves all over your arms/wiping your hands all over your contaminated apron. That doesn't seem quite right given the current situation with the nurse in Dallas. Neither she nor the CDC have been able to pinpoint where, or even whether, there was a breach in protocol. Nancy Writebol also attested to not knowing how she got exposed Ebola while following safe practices. I don't think either of those cases involved fuckups as severe as what you described.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:31 |
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"I'm getting conflicting messages here. Here's what I've heard from this thread: 1) What you've posted above 2) 1-10 viruses are enough to cause infection 3) In the late stages of the disease, ebola patients lose liquids rapidly -- 5-10 liters per day according to what MIGF posted. 4) In a non-hospital environment, i.e. with no PPE, the *average* ebola patient will infect two others. It doesn't seem possible for all four of those to be true. What am I missing?" My Imaginary GF posted:*median* R0 is 95% CI 2-3.55, from a phylogenetic analysis of transmision in rural settings with a limited sample size and an introductory event which was responsible for 14 cases detected by the study in Sierra Leone only. My Imaginary GF posted:*median* R0 is 95% CI 2-3.55 As a technical writer versed in high science and carborator rebuilding-with-duct-tape, audience-deaf responses like these make me giggle. So much useful information potential in this thread. So little of that useful information passed on. Not a specific gripe to MIGF - it is happening much in this thread and IRL (In Real Life) (<<see what I did there?). Might be part of the reason why The Media can't figure it all out too.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:41 |
I think MIGF is just an ebola news repost bot like ...! in the bitcoin threads, at this point
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:45 |
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Otteration posted:As a technical writer versed in high science and carborator rebuilding-with-duct-tape, audience-deaf responses like these make me giggle. So much useful information potential in this thread. So little of that useful information passed on. Not a specific gripe to MIGF - it is happening much in this thread and IRL (In Real Life) (<<see what I did there?). Might be part of the reason why The Media can't figure it all out too. I do science, just not anything biology-related. So at least the answer made sense to the person who asked. Thanks to the three of you who responded.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 07:48 |
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It seems like there's a trend in online discussions to play armchair epidemiologist and claim definitively that the virus isn't easy to transmit without direct contact. This is not true. Persons without direct contact have been infected by the virus before. We do not have all the evidence on this current strain to claim anything definitive on how it's transmitted. Humans have a tendency to create scenarios where a threat is only a danger to people who lack the knowledge or intelligence they possess. We see this in every comment section of a horrific crime or tragedy where people call out mistakes the victims must've made to find themselves meeting a gruesome death. There's an assumption that the victims made an error that they would simply avoid. There's also a subtle elitism in that claim that it requires direct contact. Quietly pushing the idea that this nurse in Dallas or all these West Africans would have avoided infection if only they weren't so dumb or careless. Conservatives do a similar trick on their mind when they see homeless people suffering. This tragedy only happened to that person because they made mistakes, mistakes that can obviously be avoided... But here's the reality: We still really don't have enough data to be making definitive statements (despite what the CDC is confidently pronouncing) about transmission. And there's epidemiological evidence that at times the virus can defy known transmission methods. The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy: quote:Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola Fruity Rudy fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 08:00 |
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It is said that asymptomatic infected are not (or minimally) contagious in a casual setting-such as an airplane. I accept this as true, or the data would be markedly different. But- what about more intimate contact? The asymtomatic carrier must have some viral load- i.e. if you drew his blood and injected it, you would very likely become infected- the most intimate contact possible- the limiting case. I apologize in advance for the fear-mongering I about to indulge in. Consider the following scenario: Joe Truckdriver is hauling a truckload of say, lumber somewhere. It's a long run. He is infected, but asymtomatic. Maybe he is feeling a little crappy, on the threshold of fever- but he won't let that stop him- he has a load to deliver and wants to get paid. He hauls out at a truck stop and rents a room for the night. He also rents one of the prostitutes that are ubiquitous at such stops. In intimate non-casual contact, he infects her, despite being without obvious signs of illness or disability. Next day he moves on-next night the same routine. He makes 2000 miles before he finally has to pull over, unable to continue. Meanwhile, the hooker(s) eventually infects other drivers- the E riding along in the trucks, a malign and hidden hitchhiker, following the roads of Africa as though they were arteries, spreading with the commerce and the comfort women. Eventually it reaches the Kinshasa Highway-which spans much of Africa east to west. It is thought this is how HIV spread so far and so fast and why Kinshasa Highway is called the "AIDS Highway" in some accounts. ... Q1. Any data on infectivity by asymptomatics in non-casual settings such as sex, sharing needles (surely), etc? Q2. Did TED have sex with his girlfriend? If so, how is she? Q3. How would we tell if this route of transmission is occurring? What signature in the distribution would reveal this? Q4. Is there a window just before symptoms appear that an asymptomatic may become contagious due to viral load (maybe only hours wide)? ... One sick but busy whore at the right (wrong) place could wreak havoc. e: puntc. prosody e2: this is an MIGF-type question. zimboe fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 09:31 |
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So is the nurse that got infected the same one who he met with the first time he went to the hospital?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 09:33 |
The North Tower posted:So is the nurse that got infected the same one who he met with the first time he went to the hospital? I ask yet again, does anyone know what the infected/not status of TED's family are?
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 09:54 |
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Nessus posted:I don't think it is, though that WOULD be kind of ironic. Under quarantine at this time. Presumably, they would be under isolation should they exhibit symptoms. Asymptomatic infection is possible; to gather sufficient data, I'd recommend testing all known contacts. What will be really interesting is whether the nurse's husband develops an infection, and to what extent they exchanged bodily fluids during the nurse's incubation period. E: The North Tower posted:So is the nurse that got infected the same one who he met with the first time he went to the hospital? I'm still trying to find somewhere that has uploaded all of Duncan's released medical records online. I'd be interested to read those and see all recorded instances of this nurse's name popping up.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 09:59 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:What will be really interesting is whether the nurse's husband develops an infection, and to what extent they exchanged bodily fluids during the nurse's incubation period. See my post above about intimate vs. casual contact among asymtomatic carriers.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:14 |
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Someone reported this way earlier (maybe incorrectly) but one Ebola patient in Germany has died, reportedly just tonight
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:19 |
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b2n posted:Someone reported this way earlier (maybe incorrectly) but one Ebola patient in Germany has died, reportedly just tonight Medical evacuations to German: 1-2, or, new case? E: http://m.mdr.de/nachrichten/ebola-patient-leipzig-tot100.html#mobilredirect Sudanese medical evacuation. I wonder, related to the Sudanese case involved with the outbreak occuring within the UN military deployment? zimboe posted:See my post above about intimate vs. casual contact among asymtomatic carriers. I did, I wonder if they had sex during that time since kissing is a given and likely ruled out. Hopefully ruled out. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:22 |
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The HCW need something more like those full spacesuits, that can be completely drenched in poison before the disrobement process. They deserve the best available- they are the front line in this war. And a war it is. zimboe fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:25 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Medical evacuations to German: 1-2, or, new case? As I said earlier, this death seemed to have been reported in this thread prematurely because apparently he just died a few hours ago
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:31 |
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b2n posted:According to the news site Germany is 1 (healed) - 1 (still in the hospital) - 1 (dead) Hm. Help me with my German, is "Patienten" the plural form of "Patient"? E: "Bei dem nach Leipzig gebrachten Patienten handelt es sich den Angaben zufolge um einen 56-jährigen Mann aus dem Sudan, der sich bei seiner Arbeit in Liberia mit dem oft tödlichen Virus infiziert hatte. Es befinde sich in einem "stabilen, aber extrem kritischen Zustand", sagte der Leitende Oberarzt, Thomas Grünewald." From the initial description of the medical evacuation, via: http://mobil.n-tv.de/panorama/Leipziger-Ebola-Patient-geht-es-schlecht-article13755081.html \/\/\/\/ Ah, wasn't sure if this was Liepzig's second patient or not. Thanks for clearing that up. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:34 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Hm. Help me with my German, is "Patienten" the plural form of "Patient"? Not in this case, no. They're referring to the one guy. Basically: The patient that was brought to Leipzig is a 56 y.o. man from Sudan who became infected with the often deadly virus while working in Liberia. Currently he's in a stable but extremely critical condition, says the head doctor. Armed Neutrality fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:44 |
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Armed Neutrality posted:Not in this case, no. They're referring to the one guy. Ah, well, I thought it was plural because this is the second patient in Liepzig, the first being an Ugandan doctor. quote:"The patient is a physician from Uganda, who has worked for an Italian NGO and has looked after patients in Sierra Leone," Stefan Gruettner, Health Minister of the state of Hesse said. The patient's name was not disclosed." http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-patient-arrives-germany-sierra-leone-local-officials-090653305--finance.html Still in treatment, which seems outside the 11-16 day period for fatal cases, so here's hoping for convalescence.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 10:52 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Ah, well, I thought it was plural because this is the second patient in Liepzig, the first being an Ugandan doctor. No, Leipzig lies in the federal state of Saxony, the Health Minister of Hesse is referring to the patient in Frankfurt: One patient was treated in Hamburg and was discharged healthy after five weeks, one is still being treated in Frankfurt and one died in Leizpig. That's the three ebola patients in Germany till now. "dem Patienten" is the dative case. e: since I looked it up now: The patient in Frankfurt is treated in a BSL-3 setting not the BSL-2 or whatever the hell they are doing in Dallas or Texas de Europa. quote:Well-developed safety measures http://www.kgu.de/presse/pressemitteilungen/article/2014/10/03/ebola-patient-to-be-treated-at-the-university-hospital-frankfurt-germany.html Grim Up North fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Oct 14, 2014 |
# ? Oct 14, 2014 11:06 |
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Grim Up North posted:
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 11:21 |
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Note to self "5 gallon water jugs are a must have of any ghetto suit".
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 11:24 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 05:02 |
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The North Tower posted:So is the nurse that got infected the same one who he met with the first time he went to the hospital? It seems unlikely to me, but not impossible. Nurses are assigned to specific wards and while it is possible that the nurse was floating to ER from MICU the night this guy showed up, it's pretty unlikely. They might have made a special effort to limit this patients contacts and asked staff from the ER visit to attend in ICU, but that seems unwise given that the care settings are quite different. Grim Up North posted:e: since I looked it up now: The patient in Frankfurt is treated in a BSL-3 setting not the BSL-2 or whatever the hell they are doing in Dallas or Texas de Europa. I'm familiar with a hospital (near-ish to Dallas) and it is not at all equipped to handle such an infection despite being a level 1 trauma facility. No PPE coach, no antechambers for donning/doffing, and yet the hospital has already declared to staff it would be accepting patients. They're offering training (videos) on ebola, but given some of the other issues they have I'm sure it will fall well short of what is reasonable/required. I am not filled with confidence.
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# ? Oct 14, 2014 13:07 |