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The people receiving homeschooling/abstinence only sex ed might be more likely to be in massively controlled authoritarian type environments where their privacy, freedom to socialize, and access to the opposite sex is severely curtailed compared to those who received more comprehensive sex ed?
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Oct 14, 2014 07:35
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So what?
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Oct 14, 2014 07:38
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Shbobdb posted:So what? It's a possible confounding factor in determining whether abstinence-only education really works (for the limited definition of "works" here) because it may be that abstinence-only education merely tends to exist in environments that already diminish sexual activity.
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Oct 14, 2014 07:44
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Shbobdb posted:Your sources use a lot of wiggle words. The first one admits that teens receiving abstinence only education have sex later than those who do not. The second one is particularly loving egregious: The percentage of sex-havers who had abstinence only education is only meaningful in comparison to the percentage of students total who had abstinence only education. I doubt that 1/3 kids has abstinence only education so that would make them over-represented in the sample if they are indeed rarer than that. But either way, the conclusion you are asserting can't be reached from the data you posted alone.
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Oct 14, 2014 07:51
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Kilty: Maybe, but we know that comprehensive sex ed doesn't work, so why not just do abstinence only everywhere? If Abstinence only education doesn't work for specific segments of the population, we can refine the curriculum. Surely that is a better approach than sticking with something that has already. Edit: ^^^ As long as we agree the data presented is poo poo, I'm cool. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 07:52
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Shbobdb posted:Maybe, but we know that comprehensive sex ed doesn't work, so why not just do abstinence only everywhere? If Abstinence only education doesn't work for specific segments of the population, we can refine the curriculum. Surely that is a better approach than sticking with something that has already failed. How do we know that comprehensive sex ed doesn't work again, I missed that step?
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Oct 14, 2014 07:56
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My high school sex ed was the health class teacher closing the door, admitting that he wasn't comfortable discussing sex with teenagers, and telling us to just not do it, then opening the door and moving on to the next unit. In retrospect I should've complained to the administration, but they might've backed him. Fortunately we had a couple of weeks of sex ed in lieu of 8th grade gym class that was very informative and well-taught. The discrepancy there seems weird.
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Oct 14, 2014 08:11
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I've told the story of the waterhead science teacher in like 5th grade (Mrs. Ferguson, with her wardrobe of A&M shirts) that closed the book on the day we got to the evolution chapter and said, "We're going to skip this because God made you in his image." but when it came to sex ed, I had a barely closeted lesbian Health teacher in HS and she was full on condom-on-the-banana sex ed and gave no fucks. So, you know, I guess it sort of balances out a bit. Take what you can get in small town, Friday Night Lights Texas.
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Oct 14, 2014 08:19
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Depending on how you look at the data, either abstinence only education increases the age of sexual initiation (and also may increase chastity) or comprehensive sex ed decreases the age of sexual initiation (and also heavily enriches for the population having pre/extra-marital sex).
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Oct 14, 2014 08:27
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Shbobdb posted:Depending on how you look at the data, either abstinence only education increases the age of sexual initiation (and also may increase chastity) or comprehensive sex ed decreases the age of sexual initiation (and also heavily enriches for the population having pre/extra-marital sex). I didn't realize we were in the conservative mind-set land where delaying the age of sexual initiation was the only goal of sex education. Within that framework, "for the love of god don't try it, everything will fall off!!! Honest!" is as good a message you can get. Carry on.
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Oct 14, 2014 08:29
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Trabisnikof posted:I didn't realize we were in the conservative mind-set land where delaying the age of sexual initiation was the only goal of sex education. Within that framework, "for the love of god don't try it, everything will fall off!!! Honest!" is as good a message you can get. Carry on. By delaying onset of sexual initiation, you make other alternatives more appealing, like higher education. By delaying onset long enough, you push the responsibility for education into the private sector and don't have to deal with those ethical issues voters. However, for those who do not delay onset of sexual initiation, you increase the likelyhood of a pregnancy-related outcome occuring. Obviously, this is a moral failing on behalf of the family of the pregnant individual.
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Oct 14, 2014 08:53
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Pope Guilty posted:My high school sex ed was the health class teacher closing the door, admitting that he wasn't comfortable discussing sex with teenagers, and telling us to just not do it, then opening the door and moving on to the next unit. In retrospect I should've complained to the administration, but they might've backed him. Fortunately we had a couple of weeks of sex ed in lieu of 8th grade gym class that was very informative and well-taught. The discrepancy there seems weird. My elementary school sex ed in Florida was "this is a  and also wear deodorant". Middle school sex ed was done through gym class so since I was in gifted instead of gym, I never got any but I guess it consisted of slideshows of STDs and how you'll get them all and your dick will fall off if it ever enters a vagina. There was none in high school, just a "life skills" class where we listened to stories about Vietnam and watched Lifetime movies with a football coach. 
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Oct 14, 2014 09:41
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Quid pro Cuomo on running for President.quote:WSJ: Do you want to run for president? I love that last bit about how it was so completely unimaginable that he'd ever be Governor of New York, an office his father held for over ten years.
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Oct 14, 2014 13:51
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Joementum posted:WSJ: Do you want to run for president? Thats fantastic.
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Oct 14, 2014 14:13
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My sixth grade teacher was a fundamentalist Christian who was former military and then used the money from that to go to school in Oklahoma. She'd show us Veggie Tales regularly when we reached history of Israel/Judah. Sometimes I'll see friends sharing whatever WND links she posts on Facebook 
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Oct 14, 2014 14:24
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Shbobdb posted:Kilty: Maybe, but we know that comprehensive sex ed doesn't work, so why not just do abstinence only everywhere? If Abstinence only education doesn't work for specific segments of the population, we can refine the curriculum. Surely that is a better approach than sticking with something that has already. Or how about we treat teenagers like uh people instead of animals in need of training. The driving force behind abstinence only is based on shaming those who explore sexuality and not lowering teen pregnancy. It's no different than telling someone they're going to get in a wreck every time they jump in a car.
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Oct 14, 2014 14:33
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My sex ed was a couple days during health class, and was basically, "Abstinence is the only 100% safe method birth control/STD prevention. But there's also condoms and birth control." No condom on a banana games or anything like that, and no basket of free condoms, but they at least acknowledged other forms of birth control existed and were 99% (or whatever) effective. But separate of health class, I remember all the boys being called to the library in small groups (can't remember if the girls had to do it, too) one day where a couple of super-cool college dudebros told us we shouldn't have sex because chicks are scandalous and bad about having sex and then regretting it the next day and claiming you raped them and it totally happened to a guy they knew and it ruined his life so it's best to just avoid that type of hassle, man. I'm not sure who they were, but I suspect they were from the local chapter of Campus Crusade for Christ. We also had a Christian comedienne do her act for the school that was basically a bunch of abstinance only crap peppered with her constantly going CHA-CHING! because those Rally's commercials were big at the time.
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Oct 14, 2014 14:41
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God, highschool sex-ed. Our class had the misfortune of our teacher being a very attractive young woman who loved low cut shirts and taught proper sex-ed with a straight face. Most of us were beet red from start to finish, trying very hard to not get called out for a hard-on in class.
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Oct 14, 2014 14:43
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Not to steal Joementum's thunder when it comes to Vermont politics, but... Political candidates fling manure, really. quote:Every election year, politicians would stream to Thunder Road SpeedBowl in Barre to pass their fliers and press the flesh with real Vermonters. At the end of the day, race fans would leave behind a pile of unwanted paperwork.  Scott Milne, Republican candidate for governor, takes his winning cow-chip pitch Sunday at Thunder Road.
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Oct 14, 2014 14:46
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My sex-ed included bringing in 4-5 people with full blown AIDS to talk about how if you have sex you will get AIDS. That was fun.
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Oct 14, 2014 15:00
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On Terra Firma posted:My sex-ed included bringing in 4-5 people with full blown AIDS to talk about how if you have sex you will get AIDS. That was fun. This is insane. loving nuts. Bananas. Who the hell volunteers for that?
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Oct 14, 2014 15:12
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Shbobdb posted:Your sources use a lot of wiggle words. The first one admits that teens receiving abstinence only education have sex later than those who do not. The second one is particularly loving egregious: No, the third referenced this report: http://www.mathematica-mpr.com/publications/PDFs/impactabstinence.pdf which was a legally required evaluation of the abstinence only education program quote:Sexual Abstinence. Program and control group youth were equally likely to have remained abstinent (Figure 1). About half of both groups of youth reported remaining sexually abstinent, and a slightly higher proportion reported having been abstinent within the 12 months prior to the final follow-up survey (56 percent of program group youth versus 55 percent of control group youth; this difference was not statistically significant). It doesn't even encourage abstinence as intended, so it's actually useless in the real world.
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Oct 14, 2014 15:19
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Shbobdb posted:Your sources use a lot of wiggle words. The first one admits that teens receiving abstinence only education have sex later than those who do not. The second one is particularly loving egregious: Your logic is flawed. You're mixing correlation and causation. You're ignoring the central quesiton: does abstinence lower the amount of sex having teens? And you're stuck out in the weeds, instead of rebutting the post with sources of your own. In other words, [citation needed]
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Oct 14, 2014 15:20
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mastervj posted:This is insane. loving nuts. Bananas. Who the hell volunteers for that? If I had to guess, I'd say people with AIDS.
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Oct 14, 2014 15:31
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VanSandman posted:If I had to guess, I'd say people with AIDS. You beat me to it. 
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Oct 14, 2014 15:34
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Stay classy, GOP webmasters
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Oct 14, 2014 15:39
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Sex ed was a low drama event in my recollection. Mostly memorization or anatomical names for the quiz. Recently however, in my beautiful state, sex ed has become a huge deal because it mentions anal sex and some other things adults are uncomfortable with. http://www.cds.hawaii.edu/ponochoices/faq/ The Christians are crawling out of tge woodwork. http://www.stopp.org/article.php?id=12560
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Oct 14, 2014 15:51
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Ron Jeremy posted:Sex ed was a low drama event in my recollection. Mostly memorization or anatomical names for the quiz There's a vas deferens between a man and a woman.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:03
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Shbobdb posted:Condoms can protect you, but have a very high failure rate. Now let's look at the only pictures of genitals we'll see in this class! Genitals completely destroyed by STDs. Also, the class is sex-segregated so we only get to see the fleshy bits of our own gender get destroyed by totally realistic and common diseases in America, like Haemophilus ducreyi I've never heard of this. What's the slang term for it?
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Oct 14, 2014 16:10
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Ron Jeremy posted:Recently however, in my beautiful state, sex ed has become a huge deal because it mentions anal sex and some other things adults are uncomfortable with. I thought only half of adults were uncomfortable with anal sex.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:15
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Cheekio posted:I thought only half of adults were uncomfortable with anal sex. You're doing anal wrong then.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:19
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DemeaninDemon posted:You're doing anal wrong then. Yeah both people are supposed to be uncomfortable.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:24
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 Conservatives have been jizzing over this new ad by Australia
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Oct 14, 2014 16:26
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zoux posted:I've never heard of this. What's the slang term for it? It doesn't have an English slang term that I'm familiar with, since it is mostly confined to the developing world. Chancroid is the medical terms. Since it is similar to syphilis, if it showed up in a major way in the US, I'd imagine that the terms for syphilis would be retained.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:28
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
I'm curious how do anti immigration Aussies justify the fact that white people have lived in Australia for a little over 200 years? Shbobdb posted:It doesn't have an English slang term that I'm familiar with, since it is mostly confined to the developing world. Chancroid is the medical terms. Since it is similar to syphilis, if it showed up in a major way in the US, I'd imagine that the terms for syphilis would be retained. Now would be a perfect opportunity to bring back "the grippe".
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Oct 14, 2014 16:29
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Reportedly, Tony Abbott's guys have made a deal with Hun Sen to ship the latest batches of boat people to Cambodia. Australia is AWESOME. Heh. Sadly, they don't seem as eager to ship the Sewff Effrickens to somewhere else. Goodbye Puhhhthh.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:31
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A lot of people don't seem to be understanding that what Shbobdb is saying is that the only thing abstinence education manages is slightly reduced amounts of sex (coupled with higher teen pregnancy and higher rates of STDs), while actual sex education heavily reduces teenage pregnancy and STD transmission.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:35
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Caros posted:Yeah, you mostly just have to remember that for a lot of these kids, sex ed consists of being told about the waterfall of passion that leads to the whirlpool of sin. Condom use is not exactly encouraged. Having been raised in this fundie environment I would like to say that it is nearly incomprehensible to regular people just how misinformed kids raised in these environments can be. In my case A.C.E. leaves "the talk" up to the parents, and mine just sort of wussed out and never got around to it. As a result I entered puberty and was having erections for nearly two years before I found out what that was all about. (I thought I had some sort of shameful disease/punishment from god for my lust.)
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Oct 14, 2014 16:36
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zoux posted:I'm curious how do anti immigration Aussies justify the fact that white people have lived in Australia for a little over 200 years? The same way we do in America? "We control it now so gently caress the rest of you."
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Oct 14, 2014 16:38
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
So, who are the target for this ad? Like where are they going to post it? If it's just internet then laffo, and for some reason I doubt they'll be posting it physically in boat people origin countries.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:38
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