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If CONDI can still hold Dek PBF and Trib, other misc areas, and still provide decent SRP I stand firmly in the kill all caps/sov camp.
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Oct 14, 2014 18:34
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darth cookie posted:It would have helped. What is being done is making being in null more tedious. If it was explained what was being planned to make it less necessary to move around the map so much in the first place (because of self sustaining null industry, increased player density being possible within a single system etc etc) in tandem with the range nerfs then there probably would have been less complaining. We already know CCP's solutions to these things. Null Industry -> Freighter Convoys Player Density -> Fight over better space* *better space includes farming Faction Warfare and highsec Incursions
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Oct 14, 2014 18:37
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I've got my freighter alt trained. Sadly, I can't afford the actual ship though 
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Oct 14, 2014 18:40
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I'm sure I can work out a deal for you. I've got plenty of
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Oct 14, 2014 18:46
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:
This is going to be the #1 fun activity to ruin for others when the patch hits
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Oct 14, 2014 18:59
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n4lrah posted:This is going to be the #1 fun activity to ruin for others when the patch hits Also the #1 fun activity that will never happen
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Oct 14, 2014 19:02
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Glory of Arioch posted:But I have to be inside the glass house before the cliché metaphor works and this is not my glass house < Burn that mother fucker down then, with rocks in this case.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:10
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Glory of Arioch posted:initdot has been basing out of and living in 319 since before they were even in the CFC, back when test owned the conquerable parts of delve Init wasn't basing out of 319 during any of the pre-fountain war shenanigans all the way up to us purging delve. The only people there were Topgoon/Pizza and we lived in that station for the better part of six months. 319 is a great place to stage though.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:23
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Can we petition Riot to make EVE2 since they took all the not loving awful devs from CCP?
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Oct 14, 2014 19:24
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Omniblivion posted:Can we petition Riot to make EVE2 since they took all the not loving awful devs from CCP? No because riot are still bad and enforce a stupid meta and they have Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street who is generally considered to suck rear end. Convince valve to do it, but patches would come out sometime between weekly and every 7 years as devs got bored of working on it.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:31
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deadtear posted:Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street who is generally considered to suck rear end. Ebola suck rear end or the far worse Greyscale suck rear end?
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Oct 14, 2014 19:34
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Omniblivion posted:Ebola suck rear end or the far worse Greyscale suck rear end? Well he either ruined wow or he personally made Wrath the best expansion the game has ever seen, I'm not actually sure. Riot are bad though.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:56
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I'm glad they've set the JF jump range to 10LY. This patch is now perfectly fine to me! Yay
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Oct 14, 2014 20:40
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So should I just send all of my poo poo to syndicate now or wait until after the patch hits? Also is it possible to get carriers pipe bombed?
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Oct 14, 2014 20:49
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Torpor posted:So should I just send all of my poo poo to syndicate now or wait until after the patch hits? Also is it possible to get carriers pipe bombed? You'd need a shitload of smartbombs to kill a carrier  They have EHP >1m.Your poo poo is fine where it is. Out of all entities in the game, the change affects us the least.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:51
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Jump Freighters will have a range nearly the same as pre patch and can make one jump every 5 minutes. It's pretty bad but very manageable for logistics. That's around one million M3 of cargo per hour from Jita <-> YA0 and back per Freighter pilot. two million if you count Freight going in both directions. Zephyrine fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 20:58
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Glory of Arioch posted:You'd need a shitload of smartbombs to kill a carrier 
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Oct 14, 2014 20:59
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Can someone explain to me the logic behind Greyscale's obsession with "the game" and how the results "makes the gamesystem better" and "the players enjoy the game less" are not mutually exclusive? I mean is he thinking of himself as the Lars von Trier of game desingers who's game systems have to be disturb people to be considered "good" in his eyes?
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Oct 14, 2014 21:00
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GaussianCopula posted:Can someone explain to me the logic behind Greyscale's obsession with "the game" and how the results "makes the gamesystem better" and "the players enjoy the game less" are not mutually exclusive? I mean is he thinking of himself as the Lars von Trier of game desingers who's game systems have to be disturb people to be considered "good" in his eyes? It's the same logic that promotes suicide bombers to believe that there are 72 virgins awaiting them on the other side.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:07
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Omniblivion posted:It's the same logic that promotes suicide bombers to believe that there are 72 virgins awaiting them on the other side. Yes, I'm very sure that somebody with bad ideas about video games is comparable in any way, shape, or form, to suicide bombers.  Next thing we know, Greyscale will be literally Hitler.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:10
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Zephyrine posted:Jump Freighters will have a range nearly the same as pre patch and can make one jump every 5 minutes. It's pretty bad but very manageable for logistics. It's slightly worse than that -- 5 min per jump was based on the old 5 LY max range. (rest in peace, you beautiful bastard) Making a 10LY jump in a JF will require you to wait 10 minutes. It's basically 1 minute per LY traveled.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:10
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GaussianCopula posted:Can someone explain to me the logic behind Greyscale's obsession with "the game" and how the results "makes the gamesystem better" and "the players enjoy the game less" are not mutually exclusive? I mean is he thinking of himself as the Lars von Trier of game desingers who's game systems have to be disturb people to be considered "good" in his eyes? The logic itself isn't bad. A good game is one with difficult choices, that promotes conflict (if it's PvP-based), that allows for a wide variety of viable tactics, etc. The overall goal of "make nullsec the size of an ocean instead of the size of a puddle" is a good one. Of course people are still understandably upset because CCP never follows through on anything and has ignored wildly imbalanced risk/reward structures throughout the game for years, but at the same time you can't make regions effectively "far apart" unless getting from one to the other is actually difficult. The mechanics that allow you to pack everything you own into a carrier and jump to Syndicate on a slow day are the exact same ones that promote the cold war/stalemate between the CFC and the east. Players will complain about any kind of added difficulty regardless of whether it's actually good for the long term health and design of the game, so the important thing is to be able to distinguish between that on one hand, and systems that don't do what Greyscale thinks they will do on the other. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 21:15
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Tuxedo Catfish. A good poster. I really do have high hopes that these changes will actually shake up the null metagame over time. I have fond memories of fighting with Baltecfleet in the Fountain War, which is the last time I can recall when subcaps truly mattered a lot before Archon/Supercap-Ball-Of-Doom became the new meta. Would love to see a return to beautiful and deadly schools of fish taking fleet warps from bubble to bubble, dodging bombs, and headshotting enemy FCs. (6VDT  )
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Oct 14, 2014 21:27
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Greyscale is literally worse than isis because 
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Oct 14, 2014 22:06
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GaussianCopula posted:Can someone explain to me the logic behind Greyscale's obsession with "the game" and how the results "makes the gamesystem better" and "the players enjoy the game less" are not mutually exclusive? I mean is he thinking of himself as the Lars von Trier of game desingers who's game systems have to be disturb people to be considered "good" in his eyes? Ill take greyscale trying to shake up nullsec no matter how whacky his ideas are over the continued stagnation of the game 
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Oct 14, 2014 22:07
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Stick Insect posted:Jita pubbies are stupid: Man, not wanting to make several extra clicks in Jita lag to save half a million in fake space money? Whoa, crazy, what a pubbie, lol
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Oct 14, 2014 22:27
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So what will happen to N3 and PL when the changes hit? The narrative of them being the rampaging huns on our doorstop is a cute one, but surely their position on the map is far more inconvenient than the CFC's?
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Oct 14, 2014 22:30
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Magic Rabbit Hat posted:So what will happen to N3 and PL when the changes hit? The narrative of them being the rampaging huns on our doorstop is a cute one, but surely their position on the map is far more inconvenient than the CFC's? Nothing will change. Each side's combined cap/supercap fleet is still the only thing that can seriously threaten the other's sov, and either side can easily convoy to where the other attacks within a day or two. BL might find it easier to take some moons on the outskirts of CFC space, at least until dread alts/caches are in place, and then it'll be pretty much like it is now. Of the three things CCP has claimed they're working on to overhaul nullsec (mobility limitations, sov rework, bottom-up income/increased player density), this is by far the least meaningful, and isn't really even necessary if the other two are implemented correctly. It's also the worst way to limit mobility; the best way would be to make rapid movement of capital-only fleets pointless by actually making them rely on subcaps.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:51
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Siets posted:Tuxedo Catfish. A good poster. I believe that Malconis's Law addresses this situation. If anything it seems that the proposed changes are more likely to solidify and entrench the existing power blocks than cause any sort of shakeup. After all, all our capitals will be in our space ready to react to potential hostile incursions and far less likely to be on the wrong side of the map leaving our home systems vulnerable. Which will have a two fold effect discouraging deployments and offensive ventures while making it more difficult for potential aggressors to maneuver their forces into attack positions with out telegraphing their movements days in advance providing more than ample time to prepare a defense. After all fatigue will affect aggressors as much as defenders, more so in fact since defenders will be operating on their home turf and likely starting with little to no fatigue while the aggressors will be operating under what ever fatigue they incurred traveling to theater. That's going to put them in a very risky position of jumping into a potential fight against fresh opponents who already have the home field advantage with no means of rapid egress should things go poorly. I have no idea why anyone would think these changes are going to result in more activity in null sec.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:55
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Skex posted:I believe that Malconis's Law addresses this situation. Except our space is the entire western half of the map. Our capitals could be in our space and still be 4 regions away from a hostile incursion. That's the point. CCP has this vision that large empires will shrink as a result of unaffiliated small groups chipping away at our sov due to us being unable or unwilling to move our caps across our space fast enough. Death by a thousand cuts, essentially. Of course, this requires several small groups with sov aspirations to be attacking us simultaneously. You can decide for yourself if you think that is likely to happen.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:14
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Best Friends posted:Man, not wanting to make several extra clicks in Jita lag to save half a million in fake space money? Whoa, crazy, what a pubbie, lol I never have market lag in jita, anymore but yeah i mean w/e it's pennies. If you're just starting to market trade though as a isk-less newbie it's gotta smart a little.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:19
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JohnSherman posted:Of course, this requires several small groups with sov aspirations to be attacking us simultaneously. You can decide for yourself if you think that is likely to happen. It isn't. Anyone that clever or organized or interested in nullsec is either renting or already part of one of the big coalitions. We could get really cynical, and just give up some of the shittiest space to become game reserves. Like what we had going with Intrepid Crossing in Cobalt Edge, until Razor farmed them a bit too hard.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:30
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JohnSherman posted:Of course, this requires several small groups with sov aspirations to be attacking us simultaneously. You can decide for yourself if you think that is likely to happen. These mythical aspiring Sov holders must also be competent enough to overcome the same logistical challenge we face. e;fb by the post above me.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:31
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JohnSherman posted:several small groups with sov aspirations to be attacking us simultaneously. So, a coalition? 
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Oct 14, 2014 23:34
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edit: nvm
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Oct 15, 2014 05:08
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Best Friends posted:Man, not wanting to make several extra clicks in Jita lag to save half a million in fake space money? Whoa, crazy, what a pubbie, lol What half a million? I think you're awful at math. hazdoc posted:Yes, I'm very sure that somebody with bad ideas about video games is comparable in any way, shape, or form, to suicide bombers. Looking at the dude's giant red text, I'm thinking there's another connection there.
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Oct 15, 2014 08:05
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CainFortea posted:What half a million? I think you're awful at math. (11929 - 11299) × 970
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Oct 15, 2014 08:10
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JohnSherman posted:Except our space is the entire western half of the map. Our capitals could be in our space and still be 4 regions away from a hostile incursion. That's the point. CCP has this vision that large empires will shrink as a result of unaffiliated small groups chipping away at our sov due to us being unable or unwilling to move our caps across our space fast enough. Death by a thousand cuts, essentially. Given that it will be as much of, if not more, of a ballache for smaller groups to gain/hold sov, the chances of this happening will be small. I can see people deciding to set up caches of capitals in commonly contested areas to quickly counteract any smaller group and long term deployments being something that becomes a rarer occurrence.
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Oct 15, 2014 11:31
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Just when I begun to think the "flying piņata" thing was just an urban legend: https://zkillboard.com/kill/41784436/ Some of you guys had a little bit of fun. Congratulations to all involved. (BTW, wasn't impersonation a bannable ofense?)
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Oct 15, 2014 11:32
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Guess I'm spacepoor then. Assuming it takes you four seconds to buy that order out, what the hell are you guys doing that makes over half a bil isk an hour? With one account. (11929 - 11299) × 970 = 611100 (60 × 60) / 4 = 900 900 × 611100 = 549,990,000 ISK/hr  All this doesn't apply if you think "it doesn't matter cuz I mined the minerals myself!", of course.
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Oct 15, 2014 12:21
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