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I think that another reason why people netdeck is because cards cost money. If you buy expensive cards for your own brew, chances are that it just isn't going to be good, and you can't afford to just buy cards for another brew. If you buy cards for an established list, you at least know that the deck is decent.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:53
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PleasantDirge posted:And like AATrek said, almost never is a deck the pure brainchild of one player, it takes a village to brew a good deck. That reminds me, I've been meaning to change my name back to Chamale, that joke got old. Please update your ignore lists accordingly.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:56
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Some people get a lot of enjoyment from building decks and testing them out. Other people just enjoy piloting decks that are proven to be good. Neither preference is wrong. Whatever allows you to enjoy Magic. The only bad Magic players are those that bitterly complain after losing and blame it on anything BUT their own skill.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:59
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PleasantDirge posted:
Way to force [Chamale aka AATREK CURES KIDS] to change his name with your terrible quoting. RIP Best forum name 2014.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:00
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The thing I don't like about Net-decking is that there are lots of people who netdeck and then have almost no idea how to actually pilot the deck but will still parrot off the whole "this deck won an Open/GP/PT" spiel when you ask them about it. I enjoy dicking around with building my own decks. Taking an idea, slapping it together, smashing it into a friends deck, tweaking it bit by bit myself or on the advice/suggestions of friends at my LGS and then playing it again, and then tweaking it again, etc. The most competitive Magic I play is FNM though and I've never won with them (lots of 2-2 though) but I have a lot of fun. I think all the deck-building I've done has made me a bit better at Limited too.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:01
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Cernunnos posted:The thing I don't like about Net-decking is that there are lots of people who netdeck and then have almost no idea how to actually pilot the deck but will still parrot off the whole "this deck won an Open/GP/PT" spiel when you ask them about it. I hate deckbuilding and pulling cards out of boxes and poo poo. It's probably the biggest barrier to me playing constructed magic. Honestly just printing out a list and putting it together once is the easiest for me so that's usually why I do it. Then again I'm playing eternal formats where like, there's almost no point in brewing up some wacky goofball thing just to see how it does.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:05
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This week's Magic Online Announcements has a satisfaction survey that asks about Hearthstone and some known issues that will be fixed on October 22.quote:Let Us Know What You Think MOCS Promo  Metalworker Event Participation Promo  Temple of Mystery Store Activity Promo  Brain Maggot
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Oct 15, 2014 00:11
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JerryLee posted:I'm pretty sure that any reasonable definition of netdecking gives a pass to the people who actually collaborated on the deck, or at least on their own distinct variant. (People might still accuse you of it in ignorance, of course.) The point is that you're not going to convince me that your average dude at FNM last year brewed and tested mono-black devotion by himself.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:14
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Chill la Chill posted:If they were in the same colors I would play siege rhino and Quickling together all day for troll value and sweet synergy. It is your duty now to build 4 color Quickling Rhinos. Fuzzy Mammal posted:I hate deckbuilding and pulling cards out of boxes and poo poo. It's probably the biggest barrier to me playing constructed magic. Honestly just printing out a list and putting it together once is the easiest for me so that's usually why I do it. Then again I'm playing eternal formats where like, there's almost no point in brewing up some wacky goofball thing just to see how it does. See, I'm the exact opposite. I love brewing the most random jankiest Johnniest decks imaginable. And I will trade for the stupidest cards to do it. I will loving kill you by shrapnel blasting a Scuttling Doom Engine, you fucker! Or Spite of Mogis-ing my own Boros Reckoner after dumping half my deck (packed with Divinations, Jace's Ingenuity, and Steam Augury) into the grave! AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 00:17
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JerryLee posted:I'm pretty sure that any reasonable definition of netdecking gives a pass to the people who actually collaborated on the deck, or at least on their own distinct variant. (People might still accuse you of it in ignorance, of course.) The point is that you're not going to convince me that your average dude at FNM last year brewed and tested mono-black devotion by himself. Oh good, no one can ever accuse me of netdecking Abzan Midrange since I posted several versions of it in the Brewhaus before Khans was even legal. 
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Oct 15, 2014 00:18
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Angry Grimace posted:Oh good, no one can ever accuse me of netdecking Abzan Midrange since I posted several versions of it in the Brewhaus before Khans was even legal. It's a Biff situation, like in the hit motion picture Back to the Future 2
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Oct 15, 2014 00:19
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AlternateNu posted:It is your duty now to build 4 color Quickling Rhinos. Abzesper Espzan Azper Azpergers Asparagus
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Oct 15, 2014 00:25
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The only way to avoid accusations of netdecking is to brew alone in a cabin in the woods like the Unabomber, only making yourself known to the world when you send scrawling, typewritten manifestos on the power of obscure cards to Channel Fireball. Like Travis Woo.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:26
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For sure, the version I was brewing to start was a lot worse than the one Lax used at the PT - I think my first draft of Abzan Rhinos had Ajani Steadfast and Polukranos as additional 4-drops (which eventually became High Sentinels which eventually just turned into Wingmate Rocs).
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Oct 15, 2014 00:26
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LGD posted:No, but the average dude at FNM also doesn't claim to have created the deck and doesn't place a particularly high premium on being known as a brilliant deck designer. And if they're serious they probably did spend some time testing and making tweaks to the list and sideboard as a response to metagame considerations. On the other hand people who (seriously) complain about net-decking seem to put a lot of value on being an original deck designer, and are universally convinced that if only it wasn't for those drat dirty netdecks their latest brew would have torn up the local tournament scene and shown their brilliance to one and all. While they'd doubtless do better in circumstances where fewer people had access to tight, tuned lists, convergent evolution of decks is absolutely a thing and I seriously doubt that most people who complain about "net decking" would do nearly so well as they'd like to imagine. I ran into this a few months ago at a legacy IQ. The guy was playing slivers. Actual slivers. And not good slivers with 20 lords and Crystalline. No disruption, no Aether Vial, no spells at all that I saw. not even good lands; just 5 color slivers and stuff like Rupture Spire. He knew that if he wouldn't have had mana problems in our games (it turns out spending your first 2 turns to play a tapped rainbow land is bad) he would have wiped the floor with me. He didn't have a single creature successfully attack in either game. This is the same guy that tried to call a judge on my Delver checklist card because proxies aren't allowed, and who I explained my "cast probe for life, tap land, daze probe, replay land" (I was mana screwed and had just drawn a Confidant) half a dozen times before he pretended to understand. Clearly a master brewer. I don't remember his exact words regarding Delver netdecks, but I do remember being moderately insulted, which is quite the accomplishment, and that I could have gotten him DQ'd if I'd felt like it. But it was the last round, so screw it. Also of note, I was playing Grixis Delver which was both bad and not a net deck.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:35
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The only way to avoid accusations of netdecking is to brew alone in a cabin in the woods like the Unabomber, only making yourself known to the world when you send scrawling, typewritten manifestos on the power of obscure cards to Channel Fireball. The WOOnabomber? WOOnabrewer? Ill stop
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Oct 15, 2014 00:39
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AlternateNu posted:It is your duty now to build 4 color Quickling Rhinos. Yeah maybe I'm weird. Honestly though I will pay someone $10 an hour to come help me clean up my collection and get my 11 (  ) 85% complete modern decks together. +30% if you'll accept cards/boosters. Totally serious if you live in seattle hit me up. Just don't steal anything haha.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:44
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Yeah maybe I'm weird. I love organizing cards and I would do it if you lived in Mass  .Anyways, I have been watching LSV streaming Vintage Stax, and 1) it looks incredibly fun and 2) I keep wanting to get MTGO because I have decided Khans standard is the season I start playing big-boy magic at GPs and stuff, so I need more practice, but it looks so horrible and broken I just can't make myself do it.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:53
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Applebees posted:MOCS Promo Holy poo poo that is just amazingly bad art.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:00
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Anyways, I have been watching LSV streaming Vintage Stax, and 1) it looks incredibly fun and 2) I keep wanting to get MTGO because I have decided Khans standard is the season I start playing big-boy magic at GPs and stuff, so I need more practice, but it looks so horrible and broken I just can't make myself do it. It really is great to be able to play whenever, don't let all the whining - a fair share of which is coming from me, I'm sure - scare you away. If a playset of Wastelands weren't $600 or if Tempest drafts were at all playable (oh, you got a Portcullis? I guess I just lose.) I would probably be playing Stax now instead of RUG Delver. I'm pretty sure all I'm missing is the Wastes and Mutavaults.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:03
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It looks like something from the first myst
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Oct 15, 2014 01:05
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The only way to avoid accusations of netdecking is to brew alone in a cabin in the woods like the Unabomber, only making yourself known to the world when you send scrawling, typewritten manifestos on the power of obscure cards to Channel Fireball. And even then it turns out he had been thinking of a deck that someone else had come up with concurrently. Basically, Simpsons did it.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:06
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The only way to avoid accusations of netdeCking is tO brew aloNe in a cabin in the woods Like the UnabombEr, onlY making yourself knoWn tO the wOrld when you senD scrawling, typewritten manifestoS on the power of obscure cards to Channel Fireball. I found the hidden message. I sincerely wish Conley would put up more consistent results although IIRC he's on a playtest team w/ Ari Lax and Craig Wescoe or something.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:11
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The only way to avoid accusations of netdecking is to brew alone in a cabin in the woods like the Unabomber, only making yourself known to the world when you send scrawling, typewritten manifestos on the power of obscure cards to Channel Fireball. I send myself sealed and dated decklists via certified mail so everyone knows I can prove that I was the first to build a deck.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:13
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Cactrot posted:I send myself sealed and dated decklists via certified mail so everyone knows I can prove that I was the first to build a deck. i have mine notarized too
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Oct 15, 2014 01:24
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suicidesteve posted:I ran into this a few months ago at a legacy IQ. The guy was playing slivers. Actual slivers. And not good slivers with 20 lords and Crystalline. No disruption, no Aether Vial, no spells at all that I saw. not even good lands; just 5 color slivers and stuff like Rupture Spire. He knew that if he wouldn't have had mana problems in our games (it turns out spending your first 2 turns to play a tapped rainbow land is bad) he would have wiped the floor with me. He didn't have a single creature successfully attack in either game. This is the same guy that tried to call a judge on my Delver checklist card because proxies aren't allowed, and who I explained my "cast probe for life, tap land, daze probe, replay land" (I was mana screwed and had just drawn a Confidant) half a dozen times before he pretended to understand. Clearly a master brewer. I don't remember his exact words regarding Delver netdecks, but I do remember being moderately insulted, which is quite the accomplishment, and that I could have gotten him DQ'd if I'd felt like it. But it was the last round, so screw it. Also of note, I was playing Grixis Delver which was both bad and not a net deck. I realize you were just adding your own voice to the conversation, but I have to say I didn't expect for you to end it by saying you were playing a brew yourself (granted, with actual Good Cards in it). It's almost like being a bad, toxic shithead is orthogonal to whether one brews one's own decks or not, and doesn't have anything to do with whether having a solved format crowding brews out of real competition (for most practical purposes) is good or bad for the game.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:40
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Boxman posted:Holy poo poo that is just amazingly bad art.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:45
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Veyrall posted:I'm genuinely not seeing what's bad about it. It looks like a robot. Not particularly cool, but what makes it bad? It is made with the same poo poo CG style as Gild. I'm sure if you took that picture and blew it up to its native resolution like Gild, it would look like the most flat, low effort, piece of poo poo robot. Just be glad it isn't in motion or it would look like a bad Alpha Centauri cutscene.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:06
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Zoness posted:Way to force [Chamale aka AATREK CURES KIDS] to change his name with your terrible quoting. RIP Best forum name 2014. Your posting turns whole fields fallow and sours milk inside the cows so I don't know why your so mad dude changed his name from a rape joke, oh wait yes I do your an insufrable neck beard shitlord.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:06
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Yo dude.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:15
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I want to know what they're doing to MTGO. After the last update, this program is unplayable on my laptop and lags like gently caress all on my desktop....with a 4.4 GHz processor and 32 GB of RAM. The laptop isn't exactly slacking at 2.4 GHz and 8GB.... Every weekend I'm streaming Netflix in full HD and playing poo poo in multiplayer like Civ 5 or StarCraft with maxed out graphics. No lag. Want to draft? It'll take a full minute to cast each spell  I just want to understand how you gently caress this up so badly  It was fine a week ago, what did you do?!
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Oct 15, 2014 02:36
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Same here, when it was in beta my comp ran it fine and I could even stream it. Now that its out, it runs like complete poop and if I stream it it lags so much I start skipping phases.Applebees posted:This week's Magic Online Announcements has a satisfaction survey that asks about Hearthstone and some known issues that will be fixed on October 22. Through paper magic is not one of the available answers. Who writes these things?
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Oct 15, 2014 02:39
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Wadjamaloo posted:Who writes these things? The same people who have to publish a list of known bugs to warn players not to do those things because they can't be bothered to fix them.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:40
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Wadjamaloo posted:"How did you first discover Magic Online?" Do you mean a promotional insert, or an announcement at a tournament, or was it mentioned by a fellow player in a casual match?
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Oct 15, 2014 02:45
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Wadjamaloo posted:"How did you first discover Magic Online?" Well you you can't really discover Magic Online just through paper Magic. You can see an advertisement, a person can tell you about it, or you can read about it online, and those were options.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:50
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I honestly feel bad for the MTGO programmers. They're probably competent enough to make it work right but they're building in some relatively ancient, mostly defunct programming language aren't they? I imagine if they could start the whole thing over from scratch with a more modern language they'd have a more stable system all around and would have less trouble implementing new cards. Also they'd need to be mostly self administered rather than being completely under the thumb of another division (definitely won't happen). Bureaucracy rules with a fist of Red Tape.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:51
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Chamale posted:Someone who complains about the very idea of netdecking has no clue what collaboration goes into any successful Magic deck. The eternal thread credits me with inventing Breakfast Burrito, but there was tons of work put in by Oldsrocket, and a bunch of other goons who suggested we test certain cards or did the math for some matchups. Applebees posted:Well you you can't really discover Magic Online just through paper Magic. You can see an advertisement, a person can tell you about it, or you can read about it online, and those were options. The reason why its stupid for them to ask that question and not include paper magic is that its a question about advertisement. They ask because they want to know what forms of advertisement have best been promoting their product. With that idea in mind, nearly everyone involved in paper magic is going to become aware of MTGO passively, paper magic is advertisement for MTGO. eSporks fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 02:52
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Cernunnos posted:I honestly feel bad for the MTGO programmers. They're probably competent enough to make it work right but they're building in some relatively ancient, mostly defunct programming language aren't they? I imagine if they could start the whole thing over from scratch with a more modern language they'd have a more stable system all around and would have less trouble implementing new cards. Also they'd need to be mostly self administered rather than being completely under the thumb of another division (definitely won't happen). Honestly, I'd be surprised if that was a major factor. It's easy to say that "well just rewrite it in a better language" is the solution, but all that really does is give us v4 (and before that, v3, and so on...). The problems with mtgo are primarily that they have a very firm release cycle - they have four major releases a year, with no ability to move the ship date, and no ability to cut anything that won't be ready in time for release. So if scheduling constraints mean you have to cut something from a release? Well, it's going to mean that bug-fixing and cleaning up the code are the things that don't get done. With a schedule that firm, you really need enough staff to finish things well in advance of your ship date, so that you have enough time for the other things. The fact that they're not really paying a competitive salary (and hence not really getting the best people) doesn't help either.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:12
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Wadjamaloo posted:And then there was also Adam Prosak and the MTGS boards that simultaneously created the same deck. The real question is what website did all 3 of you netdeck it from? They have an option for word of mouth, stop being a sperg.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:13
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BaronVonVaderham posted:I want to know what they're doing to MTGO. After the last update, this program is unplayable on my laptop and lags like gently caress all on my desktop....with a 4.4 GHz processor and 32 GB of RAM. The laptop isn't exactly slacking at 2.4 GHz and 8GB.... Every weekend I'm streaming Netflix in full HD and playing poo poo in multiplayer like Civ 5 or StarCraft with maxed out graphics. No lag. Want to draft? It'll take a full minute to cast each spell Step 1. Produce a beta with incredibly bad performance. Step 2. Spend a bunch of money on contractors to fix performance. Step 3. Slowly undo those performance gains because you don't pay enough to get programmers who understand performance very well.
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