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They were cleared off Lung Wo street. Very violently too. They were beating people in full view of a gajillion journalists. How can they not know this is just going to come back and bite them in the rear end tomorrow?
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Oct 14, 2014 21:13
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Bloodnose posted:How can they not know this is just going to come back and bite them in the rear end tomorrow? Is this a serious question?
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Oct 14, 2014 23:40
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I'm not sure. The SCMP reports that the security secretary's approval rating has dropped to zero. CY's business thingy is looking increasingly illegal, now the police have beaten up unarmed students (a good alternative to gas?). I can't think of anyone in the government with any legitimacy anymore. I guess it's not a serious question because I don't expect anyone here to have an answer, but the Hong Kong government is just looking like a big useless pile of Uncle Tom's crap.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:19
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Bloodnose posted:I'm not sure. The SCMP reports that the security secretary's approval rating has dropped to zero. CY's business thingy is looking increasingly illegal, now the police have beaten up unarmed students (a good alternative to gas?). I can't think of anyone in the government with any legitimacy anymore. The bigger issue of a crackdown is that it creates bad optics in real democracies if regulatory authorities refuse to go over after CY. Who wants to be seen to support communist dictatorship over self-organizing middle-class demonstrators for democracy and freedom?
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Oct 15, 2014 00:23
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Well the ICAC have opened a case (they have to since a formal complaint was filed) and apparently an Australian agency is doing the same. We'll have to see how that turns out.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:37
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Bloodnose posted:I'm not sure. The SCMP reports that the security secretary's approval rating has dropped to zero. CY's business thingy is looking increasingly illegal, now the police have beaten up unarmed students (a good alternative to gas?). I can't think of anyone in the government with any legitimacy anymore. Do folks have really good unambiguous footage of police brutality? That's going to be helpful at this point.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:58
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I saw plenty of it while watching the raw stream. You can expect a lot of edited stuff coming later today as everyone digests what happened overnight.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:21
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Discendo Vox posted:Do folks have really good unambiguous footage of police brutality? That's going to be helpful at this point. Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvsrEF3gp-U
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Oct 15, 2014 01:30
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Pyramid Scheme posted:Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvsrEF3gp-U Christ that is nasty! The HK police are beating and kicking a handcuffed man who is on the ground!
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Oct 15, 2014 02:05
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Bloodnose posted:Well the ICAC have opened a case (they have to since a formal complaint was filed) and apparently an Australian agency is doing the same. We'll have to see how that turns out. Well Timothy Tong, the head of ICAC who spent millions on banquets and gifts, is still "under investigation". Donald Tsang got investigated about his artificially low rent apartment building in Shenzhen. Guess what? No one gets arrested. Ever. This is so loving bull poo poo. I was at the tunnel last night for a while, hauling water and stuff. Everyone there was on the edge. Now I see news like this in the morning. There might be fewer protesters who want to show up because of the violence, but the ones who want to remain have hardened their resolved. 37 people got arrested last night for illegal assembly and the police commissioner said raising your hands is not peaceful at all because you can charge people with umbrellas. The government right now is really full of BS. Wish they had the balls to say, occupy is too long, go away we are clearing segments of the road. Nope, instead they are claiming to recover government property and not dispersing protesters. Last night's scene shows the government is escalating as well. Remove storm drain bricks seems creative, but I hope no one tosses things at police.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:37
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/world/asia/hong-kong-protests.html This article has a great photo of the cops aggressively restraining a protestor while the cop in the middle looks like he's about to order an attack on the cameraman.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:41
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Government is bullshit, news at 11. We can all become this guy 
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Oct 15, 2014 02:47
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caberham posted:Well Timothy Tong, the head of ICAC who spent millions on banquets and gifts, is still "under investigation". Donald Tsang got investigated about his artificially low rent apartment building in Shenzhen. Guess what? No one gets arrested. Ever. Hopefully this time will be different. There's still time for Tong to go down, as he should since he was pretty blatantly doing illegal poo poo. Donald played in a very gray area that, while inappropriate and scummy, may not have been straight-up illegal and certainly not enough for him to go down while he was still doing everything the oligarchs and Beijing wanted. The thing about CY is nobody likes CY. CY wasn't Beijing's pick to begin with, and he started out saying he was going to take down the tycoons. Then he turned out to play the Beijing stooge role well enough to piss off all the pro-democrats. Now it turns out he took bribes and acted against the interests of his own company. I can't understand why anyone would go to bat for him at this point.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:49
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goldboilermark posted:Government is bullshit, news at 11. ICAC was considered the shining hope that made Hong Kong great. It was actively fighting corruption and arresting bribe taking cops, letting citizens trust in the rule of law. Rule of law, not rule by law. Lots of things are bullshit and unequal in this world, but people are striving to make things better. Some people choose to move elsewhere and emigrate, some people choose to stay and try to change. Yes, there are always new inequalities and the pace of progress is slow, but people are still trying and standing up against the wrongs. Of course the scales are tipped and the government won't budge, but people are still making a stand and as long as people are out there getting sprayed and beaten, I will be out there to support others.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:05
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I agree with Bloodnose. There's still time for Tong to go down. I don't think Donald Tsang did anything illegal, even if it was inappropriate. It's going to be impossible to ignore this massive coiled turd that CY left though. It looks so god drat bad. Plus the Australian police is investigating it as well, which is going to put pressure on the ICAC to be impartial.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:06
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Reuters has apparently gotten info form unnamed sources in Chinese government that (duh) they will not even consider any concessions to students because of the precedent it sets on the mainland. Concessions include even negotiating with student groups. There is the answer to why talks were cancelled and how this place is completely hosed.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:10
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Well they can't do nothing. And nothing includes beating up kids and breaking down barriers that they just put back the next day. Their choices are to kill everyone or negotiate. There is no third option.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:15
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Possible outcome: - DTZ fiasco triggers ICAC investigation on CY, he steps down - Beijing says "Look, we didn't interfere to protect our man. This is the "one countries two systems" that you want." - Beijing gets the benefit of getting rid of CY (dead duck, Beijing only wanted him as a pretend choice until their preferred candidate's basement was uncovered), replacing him with a more competent, still pro-Beijing person - Beijing passes their "lack of intervention" off as the one any only concession to Scholarism's/Occupy Central's demands (despite some faction in Beijing likely disclosing the story to Garnaut) - No meaningful changes ... and we see a large exodus of HKers under the age of 40, largely tertiary educated middle class people whose families were wealth off enough to get passports in Canada/Australia/US/elsewhere in the lead up to 1997. People who realise that they will never afford a house in a HK which increasingly has no place for them. Beijing gleefully fills the gap with more Mainland people. HK's decline continues for another 5-10 years before it becomes little other than a historical oddity (with some chance Beijing could revive it as a semi-independent outpost of rule of law, pending future regional developments). Some talk about the resilience and adaptability of the HK Cantonese. Maybe it will shine through, despite my pessimissim. Pyramid Scheme fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 03:16
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The city is quickly just becoming a giant outlet mall for mainland Chinese. Why not just get it completely over with?
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Oct 15, 2014 03:24
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I still think the importation of mainland immigrants isn't a big deal to Hong Kong. I mean almost every Hong Konger is less than three generations removed from the mainland. The new immigrants will get Hong Kongified like all the previous generations, they won't mainlandize Hong Kong. The bigger problem is the mainland tourists and shoppers and property investors who cause insane economic disruptions.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:26
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Looks like protesters want a beating after all. Whelp, hopefully it won't take too many cracked faces before they give up.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:42
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Bloodnose posted:The new immigrants will get Hong Kongified like all the previous generations, they won't mainlandize Hong Kong. Is that happening in places like Tin Shui Wai (ie the alleged place where mainland women who married HK truckers mainly live)? That's not a loaded question. I've been up there a few times, but I've got no real idea of how that experiment is going outside of the feeling of misery and occasional news of suicides coming out of there.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:43
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Alas Boobylon posted:Looks like protesters want a beating after all. Whelp, hopefully it won't take too many cracked faces before they give up. God you are insufferable. How did any progress ever get made in this world with people like you naysaying anybody who stands up to authourity? quote:Hong Kong police and protesters have clashed, with dozens of officers in riot gear using pepper spray on protesters in some of the most violent scenes since the start of the pro-democracy demonstrations. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/10/hong-kong-police-clear-protest-barricades-2014101512237584208.html
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Oct 15, 2014 03:50
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Communocracy posted:God you are insufferable. How did any progress ever get made in this world with people like you naysaying anybody who stands up to authourity? um please stop hurting the feelings of the Chinese people, thank you
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Oct 15, 2014 04:00
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I think it's important to remember that this won't be the last period of protest in Hong Kong. Even if the protests ended today, they're going to keep happening until change happens. Hong Kong is too financially well off for the system to be overturned after a short period.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:06
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I really respect the HKers and their protesting, they've done it right and that owns. That being said, nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, in the past five years that I've seen in China leads me to believe that China is going to budge on this. I just hope people aren't really going to die for this in Hong Kong.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:07
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augustus gluten posted:Reuters has apparently gotten info form unnamed sources in Chinese government that (duh) they will not even consider any concessions to students because of the precedent it sets on the mainland. Concessions include even negotiating with student groups. There is the answer to why talks were cancelled and how this place is completely hosed. Didn't many people said that before the protest started? Also Beijing won't allow CY Leung to resign even if he want to because that would appear as a concession. Maybe he can resign next year for "health issue".
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Oct 15, 2014 04:07
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whatever7 posted:Maybe he can resign next year dueto "health issue". What are you talking about? Health Issue? CY Leung has been exposed as a literal Bernie Madoff who also happens to be the head of government. There's no need to manufacture a health issue when you pretty much have proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a white collar crime.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:10
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augustus gluten posted:The city is quickly just becoming a giant outlet mall for mainland Chinese. Why not just get it completely over with? If mainland Chinese run the malls then there would be no interest for mainland Chinese to visit, all the products would be fake and the government won't care an inch. Beijing is in desperate need to reduce corruption, it is slightly ironic that democracy would be the most effective way to do it.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:16
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iceaim posted:What are you talking about? Health Issue? CY Leung has been exposed as a literal Bernie Madoff who also happens to be the head of government. There's no need to manufacture a health issue when you pretty much have proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a white collar crime. What's HK's "impeachment" process under Basic Law anyway? And when will CYL's term over? 2017?
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Oct 15, 2014 04:16
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whatever7 posted:What's HK's "impeachment" process under Basic Law anyway? An impeachment needs a super majority (2/3rds) of the Legco and it's sent for approval to Beijing. Even if an impeachment fails, it's not going to stop the investigations in Australia and by the ICAC in HK. Yeah his term will be over in 2017. It's hard to imagine him hanging around this long after he's been exposed as a complete crook.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:21
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I think it's important to remember that this won't be the last period of protest in Hong Kong. Even if the protests ended today, they're going to keep happening until change happens. Hong Kong is too financially well off for the system to be overturned after a short period. Lots of people on the ground are just hoping for some compromise right now. But the government response is getting more and more heavy handed. I'm really worried about force escalation on both sides. Some protesters last night were freaking out about claiming lung wo road and pulling storm drain bricks. Cops are stressed out as well. I really don't want tear gas and riot shields to be the norm. The negotiated protest model is breaking down by the government and radicals. Then again if I go home after a compromise a few die hards will probably hang on and call me turn coat. I just hope the remaining group won't get severely punished caberham fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 04:24
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caberham posted:Lots of people on the ground are just hoping for some compromise right now. But the government response is getting more and more heavy handed. I'm really worried about force escalation on both sides. Some protesters last night were freaking out about claiming lung wo road and pulling storm drain bricks. The protesters really shouldn't even expect that right now. Peaceful protests don't yield immediate results unless there are other stressors involved. The movement is going to have to keep fighting until China stumbles. EDIT: People are going to have to get hurt for this to be a success and there's no way around that. You can't have a protest movement and expect results just because you clogged up some streets and sang Les Mis songs. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 04:32
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:
plenty of people got hurt in tiananmen, that sure worked out great for the students and their cause. i think its pretty naive of you to expect more results from violent protests. in the end youll just end up with hurt and dead people and nothing else.
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Oct 15, 2014 05:03
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Communocracy posted:God you are insufferable. How did any progress ever get made in this world with people like you naysaying anybody who stands up to authourity? Alas Boobylon posted:
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Oct 15, 2014 05:12
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GlassEye-Boy posted:plenty of people got hurt in tiananmen, that sure worked out great for the students and their cause. i think its pretty naive of you to expect more results from violent protests. in the end youll just end up with hurt and dead people and nothing else. I was not endorsing violent protests and only stating that no nonviolent protest movement like this has ever succeeded without people getting hurt. The point is that they're not the ones using violence, their opponents are. EDIT: When people see video of the handcuffed leader of a political party being beaten by a group of cops, it paints a pretty vivid picture of who is wrong. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 05:13
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Turns out the guy who got beautup is a legco aide. There was footage of him squirting a water bottle at the cops. Yeah a water bottle. Honestly that's one of the reasons I like to show up. Emotions are high but everyone needs to calm the gently caress down and not get antagonised by anyone or act like a douche bag hurling insults.
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Oct 15, 2014 05:19
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Anyone who thinks the CY corruption story came out by chance at this very moment is incredibly naïve. It's the mainland creating a way to get rid of him without it looking like capitulation.
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Oct 15, 2014 05:42
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simplefish posted:Anyone who thinks the CY corruption story came out by chance at this very moment is incredibly naïve. I see it as more of a threat. CY Leung isn't going to bow down to the occupiers with that option looming over his head. Instead he's using covert tactics through combination of anti occupiers and police.
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Oct 15, 2014 05:46
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simplefish posted:Anyone who thinks the CY corruption story came out by chance at this very moment is incredibly naïve. But if this is a Beijing controlled leak, then it implies BJ didn't approved of what CYL did during Occupy Central. Did he really performed poorly given the circumstance? Edit: IMO this reaction is too soon for Beijing's style.
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Oct 15, 2014 06:01
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