|
friendlyfire posted:Unrelated: I have always thought that playing a skeleton that has 18 Charisma would be particularly fantastic. He's always smiling.  Brook is totally a bard.
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 09:41 |
|
|
Nihilarian posted:You're a dragon, but with wizard spellcasting BMX bandit is the go-to link, but this Sifl & Olly song doesn't get enough love.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:37
|
|
|
kingcom posted:True Polymorph I believe let you turn into any creature of your level or lower. So you could turn into an adult red dragon but when you get to 0 hp you just revert back to being a normal adventurer again. Except your a wizard so you just go back to dragon mode again. I'd really prefer every creature to be its own polymorph spell. It strikes me as lazy that no edition of d&d has done that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:39
|
|
|
friendlyfire posted:I'd really prefer every creature to be its own polymorph spell. It strikes me as lazy that no edition of d&d has done that. Ok, you actually had me going until this one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
kingcom posted:True Polymorph I believe let you turn into any creature of your level or lower. So you could turn into an adult red dragon but when you get to 0 hp you just revert back to being a normal adventurer again. Except your a wizard so you just go back to dragon mode again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:48
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I think you only get 1 turn-into-a-dragon slot. Could be wrong though. Fair enough, so the enemy dragon only has to kill you once before you just turn back into an all powerful wizard.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:52
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I think you only get 1 turn-into-a-dragon slot. Could be wrong though. Nobody gets more than 1 9th level spell slot unless I've missed a feat or subclass feature or something, but I don't think I have. But I can't see needing to turn into a dragon that turns back into a wizard when it dies more than once. Like, once ever. Who'd even gently caress with you after that?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:52
|
|
|
does true polymorph break on concentration?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:53
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:Nobody gets more than 1 9th level spell slot unless I've missed a feat or subclass feature or something, but I don't think I have. The necromancer with his 120 skeletons?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:55
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:does true polymorph break on concentration? Yep, so if you take damage and then fail your saving throw, you're back to wizard form after the damage is applied. I guess it's fine then? kingcom posted:The necromancer with his 120 skeletons? Well yes, obviously another wizard. e: I can't find anything about the skeleton army that would prevent you from having it going while you turned into a dragon though. I also can't see a dude who can turn into a dragon ever, you know, being short of skeletons. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:56
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:You're a dragon, but with wizard spellcasting, and if you die, you don't actually die, you just go back to "only" being a high level wizard. Nope. While you can turn into a Adult Dragon. You don't get to keep your spell casting. Also if you let the duration go long enough for it to become permanent you don't turn back into a wizard after, you turn into a dragon corpse because you were permanently turned into a dragon. AlphaDog posted:e: I can't find anything about the skeleton army that would prevent you from having it going while you turned into a dragon though. I also can't see a dude who can turn into a dragon ever, you know, being short of skeletons. The fact that you need the spell slot to turn into a dragon to make lots of skeletons and the fact that you will have next to no spells if you maintain a skeleton army. (After animating army of skeletons using almost all of your slots after you long rest you need to use almost all of them again to keep the skeletons under your control so they don't kill you.) Other then that nothing is stopping you other then you having to stay within 60 ft of your skeleton army and being limited to the form for an hour (Any longer and you are stuck in that from and have to destroy all of your skeletons as you can't get control back.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:07
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Nope. While you can turn into a Adult Dragon. You don't get to keep your spell casting. code:Also just stop concentrating when combat is over, since that presumably won't be greater than an hour.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:14
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Nope. While you can turn into a Adult Dragon. You don't get to keep your spell casting. We've been over this before are you kidding me dude
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:14
|
|
|
He's right about the Animorphs rule to polymorphing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:19
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:Yeah you do. I know the later part. I don't think combat would last that long. Just saying don't stay too long in the form or it will backfire. Dragons are not capable of casting spells unless they are variant ones and even then they are very limited with what they can do. The default dragon can't cast spells. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:22
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:Casting spells is completely within the nature of dragons. This edition's spellcasting dragons are an optional rule (MM page 86). MonsterEnvy posted:Dragons are not capable of casting spells unless their variant ones and even then they are very limited with what they can do. The default dragon can't cast spells. If it varies by dragon in your world, then the wizard will obviously turn into a spellcasting dragon. If it doesn't vary, then it's going to be up to the DM to decide before the wizard casts that spell whether or not dragons can cast spells. If dragons can cast spells because they're innately magical creatures (as per the book), then there's no reason to think the wizard wouldn't retain their own spells, because "its new form is capable of such actions". Even if they only get the dragon's spellcasting ability (why?), then the wizard shapeshifted into an Adult Red is "limited" to casting 6 5th level spells, which doesn't sound like it would be terrible. mango sentinel posted:Also just stop concentrating when combat is over, since that presumably won't be greater than an hour. I think you'll have reached the end of any possible combat encounter within 1000 rounds, yes. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:22
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:This edition's spellcasting dragons are an optional rule (MM page 86).
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:27
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:
They have to actually have encountered a spellcasting dragon and those ones are limited in one they can do anyway as they can only do a few very specific ones naturally. And Dragons while innate does not transfer over to wizards who are not innate. mango sentinel posted:Haven't read the MM yet. Still, it seems to suggest as long as the form is capable of the proper somatic and verbal components. Are the 5e dragons capable of speech and do they have dextrous claws? It suggests to me it can't cast its spells if its new form can't cast those spells. By default they can't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:28
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:They have to actually have encountered a spellcasting dragon The text of the spell doesn't specify that you have to have seen the creature you want to turn into, but let's go with that interpretation anyway. MonsterEnvy posted:..and those ones are limited in one they can do anyway as they can only do a few very specific ones naturally. Please quote the rules text that says they can only do a few very specific spells. MonsterEnvy posted:And Dragons while innate does not transfer over to wizards who are not innate. What? MonsterEnvy posted:It suggests to me it can't cast its spells if its new form can't cast those spells. By default they can't. They can if the DM has decided to use those variant rules. Which will have to have been decided before the wizard encounters the dragon. Where are you getting "those spells". It never says the new form has to be able to cast the specific spells the wizard can cast, only that you can't cast spells in the new form if the new form can't cast spells, which variant dragons can. edit: I'm glad you've now realised that True Polymorph can be cast on yourself though. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:It suggests to me it can't cast its spells if its new form can't cast those spells. By default they can't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:37
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:I've realized it would be a constitutional law level of statement parsing to argue this back and forth, but we can just wait for someone to ask Mearls on twitter or something. Its up to your GM.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:39
|
|
|
Is it "Shapechange" or "True Polymorph"?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:48
|
|
|
What's the con save on a Dragon anyways?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:08
|
|
|
Cerepol posted:What's the con save on a Dragon anyways? +9 for a young red, +13 for an adult red, +16 for an ancient red. A little less for others at each age.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:15
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:I've realized it would be a constitutional law level of statement parsing to argue this back and forth, but we can just wait for someone to ask Mearls on twitter or something. This thread has by now put more thought into True Polymorph than anyone at wizards.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:19
|
|
|
Glukeose posted:I guess I'm just doing it wrong, but I've found it actually pretty easy to GM. I definitely won't be getting the MM because from my point of view it looks like dumb crap, so I've tested out a series of "templates" for monsters that I feel will be appropriate for the party to face, and then I don't have to play them as being mentally handicapped. Thus far it's working out pretty well, with the monsters I intended to be threatening coming across as such, and the shifty fodder enemies providing a decent tarpit for the bigger foes. I also put in minions, because they feel like they fit more with 5e than they ever did with 4e. Just going through the DM Basic Rules and the guidelines for building your own monsters is like an episode of Seinfeld. The only real concrete thing it says is the size of the hit die by monster size (plus the CON modifier!) and the proficiency bonus by CR, but you can't even use the latter one because how are you supposed to know how "challenging" a monster is before you build it, if the proficiency bonus also factors into how challenging it is? AC, hit damage, attributes and everything else is just "well try to think about how powerful you want the monster to be".
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 07:30
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Nope. While you can turn into a Adult Dragon. You don't get to keep your spell casting. This again? Seriously? The post you're quoting is talking about Shapechange. You're talking about True Polymorph. But wait! What's this? True Polymorph can't even be cast on yourself, can it? MonsterEnvy posted:True Polymorph does not work on yourself anyway. MonsterEnvy posted:It targets other creatures you can see within 30 ft. You are not effected. MonsterEnvy posted:Reading the spell the intent is clear and it's to target creatures in sight. Shapechange is the spell for transforming yourself. MonsterEnvy posted:Well even if you can use on yourself at least it's weaker then Shapechange in that situation. Still I am going with RAI and saying it can't be used on self.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 07:55
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:Is it "Shapechange" or "True Polymorph"? If I remember from last time this came up, both because when you hit 0 hp while shapeshifted you just revert to your normal form and then you just turn right back into another dragon on your next turn. The only difference is that one spell lets you keep full spell casting and the other doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 09:49
|
|
|
Jack the Lad posted:This again? Seriously?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 13:41
|
|
|
S.J. posted:I'm wondering how much better the fighter would be simply by adding things back to them that got taken away and expanding on them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 14:48
|
|
|
Power Player posted:What would those be? I could only find one version of the old Next playtest (I could probably find more if I put more effort into it), but I'm guessing you're referring to Martial Damage Bonus and some other things? Yeah, the martial damage bonus was nice. Expertise/martial/maneuver dice as a standard feature that could be used to add damage if you didn't feel like doing a maneuver, and got refreshed at the start of your turn. Combat surge, which was basically action surge but if you spent a martial die during that action, you doubled the result. That's all I can think of right now, unless you want to include pre-3e stuff as "things that got taken away".
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 15:02
|
|
|
The Combat Dice did not get refreshed at the start of your turn, this was a common misconception. They got refreshed at the start of every turn. So if you used them to add damage or perform a maneuver on your turn they would refresh in time for you to use them to reduce damage from an enemy's attack on their turn. Those two things are some of the nice things fighters once had, that was then given to pretty much everyone, and then eventually faded out. Admittedly at the time no one had extra attacks. Though the fighter could get a maneuver to attack everyone adjacent by spending their dice, and the monk who was the only other class with maneuvers that used those dice could flurry to give up a die or two to make up to 2 or 3 total attacks, unlike anyone else. Also in a late playtest packet, like the last couple public playtests, the Fighter looked a lot like this except it got its second crit expansion at like level 7. Also in that packet the Fighter got special crit riders, doing a dot or knocking people prone or something on a crit. Another packet, back when subclasses were introduced, had the Knight subclass for the fighter which got some charisma stuff, and eventually got a couple low level fighters to follow it around.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
My favorite part of the playtest fighter was that martial dice could be used to parry. That was cool.quote:Please quote the rules text that says they can only do a few very specific spells. It seems safe to say that dragon magic is not wizard magic. Sorcerer, maybe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Saying a dragon can only use certain spells is like saying orcs can only use certain weapons. One side is talking stat blocks and game rules, the other physical capacity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
What the hell is with these low CR monsters that have insane abilities like "deals twice as many damage dice" and "deals +2d6 damage if target is surprised"? Are the first three levels supposed to be rocket tag or is it just a side-effect of the game being better balanced at higher levels? Bugbears, for example (CR 1), have both an ability that lets them dean an extra die of damage with melee weapons (1d8+2 becomes 2d8+2) with every melee attack they make, and if they get an surprise attack it deals another additional 2d6 points of damage. That's an average of 18, and when my 2nd level Paladin has 23 HP (which is only 1 less than the max possible with a +2 CON) it doesn't take a much higher than average hit to paste a character. And if like my paladin, you find this bugbear at the end of a cave passage, chances are it's going to beat your passive perception of 11-13 and cave in your skull with it's morningstar. Luckily for me he missed. Tactical Bonnet fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
Yes. The game is meant to be Fantasy Vietnam Shitfarmers Inc. until level 5ish.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
The problem with bounded accuracy is that anything with save-or-action-denial is going to be a disproportionate threat when it shows up to a higher-level scrum, compared to something that just does damage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
Fighters also got Advantage on saves (this is what Indomitable used to do iirc), which Monk basically has now at the cost of 1 Ki. They also had a "save vs death" feature when they hit 0, which are now on the Barbarian and Oath of the Ancients Paladins instead.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
Transient People posted:Yes. The game is meant to be Fantasy Vietnam Shitfarmers Inc. until level 5ish. Where did they say that?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 09:41 |
|
|
Rannos22 posted:Where did they say that? You want the actual quote where they tell you that Levels 1 and 2 are supposed to be the tutorial and the real game where you play for keeps and get your true class stuff starts at 3, or the actual analysis that points at how ridiculously lethal 5e is and how it plays like Shitfarmer Fantasy Vietnam until you have a massive HP buffer and enough wizard bullshit to obviate all of your encounters per day?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 17:45
|
|