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This guy makes a similar argument but makes it about Nerds and Intellectuals instead of Rich people. I think it's a decent argument though I don't ascribe to it myself, nor do I really like this guy's videos. Yeah, the actual "having powers able to level a city thing" always takes a backseat to "oh we're just mutants, let us just live normal lives" kind of thing. I always thought of the whole thing as less about race or genetic differences and really just saw mutants as counterculture. They were the punks of the 80s, the alternative skaters and goths of the 90s, ect. They dressed different and made life choices that parents and society disagreed with. The fought for ideas that weren't well received in the mainstream and their group was seen as a threat to the "normal" way of living. This is why Thor is ok, but Storm is hated and feared. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 22:27
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Hey, guys, I posted a bit of X-Men analysis in the Bad Webcomics Thread. I'm not a dedicated X-reader now, so I wanted to know if I was onto anything with this: Part of the problem is the X-Teams largely sequester themselves from the mainstream marvel universe. They are very insular, and only get drawn into outside events when those events impact them directly. I'd love for Professor X to wander back into the limelight, retcon all of the "Professor=giant douchebag" poo poo they did over the last 10 years and put together a team specifically meant to be a proper superhero mutant/human relations team. Ultron appears in town square and people run around yelling "Call the Avengers!", lightning strikes the robot to the calls of "Thank god Thor is he... that's not thor!" as Storm decends from the sky and Iceman sleds in.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:45
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Rhymenoserous posted:Part of the problem is the X-Teams largely sequester themselves from the mainstream marvel universe. They are very insular, and only get drawn into outside events when those events impact them directly. I'd love for Professor X to wander back into the limelight, retcon all of the "Professor=giant douchebag" poo poo they did over the last 10 years and put together a team specifically meant to be a proper superhero mutant/human relations team. One "What If" I think would be really cool is "What if Professor X sent the original X-Men to join the Avengers?" circa Avengers #16.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:26
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Rhymenoserous posted:Part of the problem is the X-Teams largely sequester themselves from the mainstream marvel universe. They are very insular, and only get drawn into outside events when those events impact them directly. I'd love for Professor X to wander back into the limelight, retcon all of the "Professor=giant douchebag" poo poo they did over the last 10 years and put together a team specifically meant to be a proper superhero mutant/human relations team. That was sort of what Whedon's Astonishing X-Men was supposed to be about, but a lot of other poo poo has gotten in the way of that since.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:22
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Probably Magic posted:That was sort of what Whedon's Astonishing X-Men was supposed to be about, but a lot of other poo poo has gotten in the way of that since. No, just nostalgic writer inertia. "That's not how it used to be I'm not doing it  "
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Oct 14, 2014 21:33
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Rhymenoserous posted:Part of the problem is the X-Teams largely sequester themselves from the mainstream marvel universe. They are very insular, and only get drawn into outside events when those events impact them directly. I'd love for Professor X to wander back into the limelight, retcon all of the "Professor=giant douchebag" poo poo they did over the last 10 years and put together a team specifically meant to be a proper superhero mutant/human relations team. I thought that they did a better job of the "mutants as minorities" thing during Claremont's time, simply because they were willing to portray discrimination in one of its most insidious forms, casual and banal. Like yeah they messed up at times (que kitty_nword.png), but for the most part the discrimination the X-men faced was, they couldn't go into town without being treated weird. The overt, "round em all up or ghettoize them" stuff was pretty bold when Morrison did it because it was sort of the natural conclusion of that arc, but it was so hamfisted and poorly handled by the people who followed him, and it just is too easy to tell non-daring stories because even people who are generally racist are often against things like internment or hate crimes. And it just was downright stupid when mutants were down to 175 people or whatever because a group that small is a horrible analog for minorities.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:04
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Didn't during Civil War Scott and Logan were watching all the poo poo go down and go "Wow that shits hosed, up, glad we aren't involved".
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Oct 15, 2014 00:09
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Cyclops's ultra group was all about being flashy heroes and stepping in the Avengers market, which is what I liked about it. Magneto, Storm, Colossusnaught, Namor! gently caress yeah!
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Oct 15, 2014 00:31
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twistedmentat posted:Didn't during Civil War Scott and Logan were watching all the poo poo go down and go "Wow that shits hosed, up, glad we aren't involved". Well, Civil War happened when the last 200 mutants were all living on basically a reservation and the main conflict was registering with the government, something of a moot point when you're already in what's basically an internment camp.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:29
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twistedmentat posted:Didn't during Civil War Scott and Logan were watching all the poo poo go down and go "Wow that shits hosed, up, glad we aren't involved". No, that was Siege. Civil War, I'm pretty sure they were all mixed up in.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:35
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Hey, guys, I posted a bit of X-Men analysis in the Bad Webcomics Thread. I'm not a dedicated X-reader now, so I wanted to know if I was onto anything with this: There's also the Hellfire Club, which was explicitly about upper-class mutants. Skwirl posted:Well, Civil War happened when the last 200 mutants were all living on basically a reservation and the main conflict was registering with the government, something of a moot point when you're already in what's basically an internment camp. That would be an interesting story - mutants as a metaphor for Native Americans, instead of black people.
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Oct 15, 2014 02:43
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Rick posted:And it just was downright stupid when mutants were down to 175 people or whatever because a group that small is a horrible analog for minorities. So is a minority that's actually the majority of superhumans.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:02
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The X-Men have always been a really bad metaphor for racism, and the more writers try to bring that to the fore the more terrible the metaphor looks.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:07
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Eh it works fine unless you are pedantic about it. Unless they try and draw in actual minorities. Then it gets uncomfortable.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:09
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TwoPair posted:No, that was Siege. Civil War, I'm pretty sure they were all mixed up in. In civil war, the remaining mutants were basically in a prison camp situation with sentinels there to keep them in one area. While the mutants were being "protected" by the o*n*e, several went against the X-Men and "liberated" them from the Xavier institute. Bishop argues with Cyclops that what mutants are dealing with now isn't oppression as he has experienced "real oppression". Iron Man is concerned Cap could have allowed the mutants to escape and wants Bishop to head up an operation to bring in the renegade mutants to prove they aren't a menace, but notes that most mutants want to remain neutral and not work with Iron Man. Cyclops and the remaining original X-Men go rogue and basically state that they are out to rescue and protect the other mutants with the goal of getting there before Iron Man can do anything as any mutant that leaves the Xavier Institute is promptly apprehended by sentinels. Cyclops contacts Cap to see if he has info and Cap states he only wants to speak to heroes on his side not "waste time trying to persuade [Cyclops] down off the fence". They find the mutants being kept in an old shield base and bishop shows up. Turns out another mutant had organized the breakout to eradicate the remaining mutants. Turns out Iron Man and his people show up and help them rescue the other mutants. So the whole story wraps up as a way to show that all of the heroes can work together despite their wish to remain secret or open, so there is hope that Civil War might end reasonably. For the most part, the X-men's status was " leave us out of this, we have bigger issues"... I actually think I recall an issue of one of the comics where Stark tries to convince Cyclops that mutants should register, to which Cyclops basically points out that mutants have been left out of things by everyone for so long that they should continue to be left alone, especially as registering mutants has never led to anything good. So, again, it seems that they decided to leave the X-Men out of the bigger issues in Marvel again.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:37
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Ponsonby Britt posted:There's also the Hellfire Club, which was explicitly about upper-class mutants. Hey, let's be fair, ever since Grant Morrison and the X-Men 2 movie, they're clearly a metaphor for the gays. Edit: Thinking about it, Claremont's X-Men is post Stonewall and he made Night Crawler a regular member, I think he may have unintentionally started it. (Seriously, you know Kitty's unfortunate use of the n-word, replace "mutie" in those sentences "fag" or "human being") Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 04:40
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Chinaman7000 posted:Cyclops's ultra group was all about being flashy heroes and stepping in the Avengers market, which is what I liked about it. Magneto, Storm, Colossusnaught, Namor! gently caress yeah! You forgot Hope, Danger and Illyana. The Extinction team. That was the best team, such a shame it only ran for so few issues.
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Oct 15, 2014 09:31
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X-Force was both totally brilliant, and a total bummer. 
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Oct 15, 2014 09:38
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Skwirl posted:Edit: Thinking about it, Claremont's X-Men is post Stonewall and he made Night Crawler a regular member, I think he may have unintentionally started it. (Seriously, you know Kitty's unfortunate use of the n-word, replace "mutie" in those sentences "fag" or "human being") It's been done. There's a New Mutants issue (#45) where this kid who is secretly a mutant befriends Kitty and the New Mutants and, not realising that they're mutants as well, tells anti-mutant jokes to try and get in good with them. They reject him, I think somebody outs him as a mutant, and he eventually kills himself. Kitty visits his school to give a speech at his memorial assembly, which includes this line: quote:friend of the family, spic, wop, slope, human being, mutie - the list is so long, and so cruel. They're labels, put-downs. And they hurt.
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Oct 15, 2014 10:19
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It's really amazing that one character is responsible a large percentage of racial slurs in in the Marvel Universe(not counting adult oriented stuff like MAX).
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Oct 15, 2014 14:22
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It's not like she's gong around calling people that. And it's an established part of her character.
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Oct 15, 2014 16:10
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that certainly was a comic in which wolverine died
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Oct 15, 2014 16:12
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d00gZ posted:that certainly was a comic in which wolverine died please be a broken heart
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Oct 15, 2014 16:20
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redbackground posted:Final cause of death? Wolverines final fate is Turned into an adamantium statue
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Oct 15, 2014 16:22
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d00gZ posted:that certainly was a comic in which wolverine died To be fair, any finale which did not end in him collapsing at the epicenter of 3000 dead ninjas was going to be a dud.
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Oct 15, 2014 17:42
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Frozen in carbonite
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Oct 15, 2014 17:43
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Little Mac posted:Frozen in carbonite Cyclops: I..... I love you! Wolverine: ....I know
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Oct 15, 2014 18:15
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bobkatt013 posted:Wolverines final fate is Turned into an adamantium statue
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Oct 15, 2014 18:57
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Oct 15, 2014 19:02
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Someone please summarize how that ending happens. Like seriously.
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Oct 15, 2014 19:28
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FilthyImp posted:Someone please summarize how that ending happens. Like seriously. This one dude has been trying to replicate the weapon x program. He has 3 random dudes undergoing the procedure. Dude initiates the adamantium infusion so Logan, in his infinite wisdom, decides to just slash the adamantium container, covering himself with it. He could have smashed it with something else. He could have I dunno just move the guys about to get injected. He could have cut the transfer cables. But nope he went straight for the tank, didn't try avoiding the liquid metal, then walked outside and I'm guessing died when the adamantium solidified.
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Oct 15, 2014 19:38
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Comic.txt Countdown to 'It was Clonverine' I guess?
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Oct 15, 2014 20:49
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FilthyImp posted:Wow. Of all the ways it could have gone down, that's about the dumbest I could think of. He's clearly in some kind of stasis mode, his healing factor will restart, and kitty will phase him out of the adamantium shell. It's one of the easiest outs in a character death I've seen in a long time.
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Oct 15, 2014 20:54
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Beanpants posted:He's clearly in some kind of stasis mode, his healing factor will restart, and kitty will phase him out of the adamantium shell. Kitty in the bullet was an easier one.
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Oct 15, 2014 21:01
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Beanpants posted:He's clearly in some kind of stasis mode, his healing factor will restart, and kitty will phase him out of the adamantium shell.
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Oct 15, 2014 21:05
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Now I always thought the only reason Logan survived the adamantium bonding process was because of his healing factor, because they were literally pouring molten metal on him. I didn't mind the way it went down at all (he died saving people, method of death was at least more creative than Stabbed Through Heart) but how did it not kill him instantly? On the Uncanny front, color me pleasantly surprised that the Matthew Problem has been tempered (until they need it to flare up again For Drama Reasons) by Cyclops suggesting they sit down and talk. That's the Scott I wanna see. Of course, I imagine he's almost pissing with glee at the thought of having a Class A++ Nuclear Deterrent on his side, but is very good at forcing himself to not think about things he doesn't wanna get picked up by a telepath.
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Oct 15, 2014 21:37
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Beanpants posted:He's clearly in some kind of stasis mode, his healing factor will restart, and kitty will phase him out of the adamantium shell.
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Oct 15, 2014 21:45
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d00gZ posted:that certainly was a comic in which wolverine died I wish I could return a comic because my God I could think about 50 other ways for him to die that would've been way better than that. What a great way to kill off one of your most iconic characters of the last 20 years. What was even the point? WHY? Thats all I want to know is WHY? Both Wolverine series in the last year have been terrible, Death of Wolverine was terrible. He's fine in the X-Men universe so just let him stay there. Christ this is terrible.
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Oct 15, 2014 22:13
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SalTheBard posted:I wish I could return a comic because my God I could think about 50 other ways for him to die that would've been way better than that. What a great way to kill off one of your most iconic characters of the last 20 years. What was even the point? WHY? Because people bought his death and will buy his resurrection in droves.
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Oct 16, 2014 00:19
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So when they get done exploring the stories they want to tell they'll just crack it open and he'll be fine for some reason, right?
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Oct 16, 2014 00:27
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