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Cythereal posted:
Obviously you're free to change it up but the Horus Heresy novel Fear to Tread has the strong implication of being the Sanguinor's origin story. Spoilers, or whatever, but it's about a plot to possess the Legion with bloodthirstiness, the main character ends up being the host for the majority of the possession and the Black Rage is all that infects the rest of the chapter. It ends with him being this red angel space marine winged daemon host evil Sanguinor thing and then presumably he overcomes it at some point and becomes the modern Sanguinor.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:29
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I realize there's probably a lot of overlap between this thread and /tg/, but if you haven't read the All-Guardsmen Dark Heresy Campaign you're missing out. Here's a handy link. https://09cd64678bddc0198cca7fef0df8ce7b359fff2d.googledrive.com/host/0B3Z9sXPTD9rpN2owNGdVWmdFWXM/agp.html
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Oct 15, 2014 05:51
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I vaguely recall reading a scrap of info somewhere that gave one reason for how the Warp became the Warp. Can anyone point me directly at that particular fluff or am I misremembering.
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Oct 15, 2014 11:40
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VanSandman posted:I realize there's probably a lot of overlap between this thread and /tg/, but if you haven't read the All-Guardsmen Dark Heresy Campaign you're missing out. Here's a handy link. Nubby is basically Nobby from the Ankh-Morpork City Watch and it's great. Edit: Half-way down the page the author admits as much and uses an artist's impression of Nobby as an illustration. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 12:40
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That is glorious. Any word on if this was in DH or OW rules? E: nevermind, it's explained later down. Tias fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 13:18
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Cornwind Evil posted:I vaguely recall reading a scrap of info somewhere that gave one reason for how the Warp became the Warp. Can anyone point me directly at that particular fluff or am I misremembering. The 4E Necron codex said that the Warp became a place of horror in the later stages of the war between the Necrons/C'Tan and the Old Ones, the ancient xenos race that created the orks, eldar and webway. The Old Ones were forced to do a lot of improvising after the original Necrontyr transmuted themselves into the Necrons we know today, including developing new weaponized species to fight on their side. The orks were meant to be an autonomous, self-replicating weapon system; the eldar were intended as a whole race of martial psykers, drawing on the then fairly safe warp to generate supernatural effects. The eldar acting as spigots of warp energy stimulated a pool already starting to bubble with the compounding psychic anguish of thousands of years of genocidal galactic warfare. Towards the war's end those malevolent emotions started taking shape as the first daemons, called Enslavers, which possessed hosts among the surviving xenos races to open gates for more of their kind. The Enslaver plague spread beyond all control, and cut down the volume of sapient life so steeply that the C'tan risked obliterating their food source, mortal souls, if they kept up their side of the war. They voluntarily withdrew into hibernation until the galaxy had recovered sufficiently to afford them sustainable feeding grounds, a point finally reached towards the end of the 41st millenium. The first three Chaos Gods took shape in the millenia after the Enslaver plague reached its apex; Slaanesh emerged long after, pulled into being by the decadence of the old Eldar empire.
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Oct 15, 2014 14:30
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VanSandman posted:I realize there's probably a lot of overlap between this thread and /tg/, but if you haven't read the All-Guardsmen Dark Heresy Campaign you're missing out. Here's a handy link. Oh my god that is the best thing I've read this week so far. 
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Oct 15, 2014 15:11
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Finally have some real plans in motion for my Imperium Secundus setting modification. I've talked over game ideas with my players for the past week or so, finding out what everyone wanted to do, and the idea everyone liked was the Imperium Secundus being outright reasonable with non-Secundus worlds and even non-hostile xenos - the primarchs intend to not repeat many of the mistakes of the Great Crusade. As such, it's shaping up to be a Rogue Trader game casting the PCs as Ambassadors-At-Marque, entrusted by the Council of Primarchs with finding and winning allies and new members for the Imperium Secundus, even among non-Imperial worlds. To that end, I've drawn up an introductory plot. Shortly after his recovery, the Lion assembled the Dark Angels Legion - the entirety of the Unforgiven, who effectively act like the Legion of old. He chewed them out over their obsession with the Fallen blinding them to their original purpose and duty, and decided on a team-building exercise for the Unforgiven. He brought them, the entire Legion with its eighty thousand Astartes, to a major star system of a minor alien race that's been pestering the Imperium, and instructed his legion to completely exterminate all xenos in the system. The Tau of the Bork'an Sept understandably started making GBS threads bricks at seeing more Astartes than their worst-case scenarios hypothesized existed showing up on their doorstep at random, and proceeded to be annihilated to the last man. The Tau Empire took the hint and hasn't attacked the Imperium since, but it's created an opportunity for the Imperium Secundus. Someone was very impressed with the Purge of Bork'an, and has requested a peace summit: Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kais Mont'yr, known to the Imperium as Commander Farsight. The PCs will be sent to represent the Imperium Secundus at the summit with the Farsight Enclaves.
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Oct 15, 2014 21:55
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Cythereal posted:Finally have some real plans in motion for my Imperium Secundus setting modification. I've talked over game ideas with my players for the past week or so, finding out what everyone wanted to do, and the idea everyone liked was the Imperium Secundus being outright reasonable with non-Secundus worlds and even non-hostile xenos - the primarchs intend to not repeat many of the mistakes of the Great Crusade. As such, it's shaping up to be a Rogue Trader game casting the PCs as Ambassadors-At-Marque, entrusted by the Council of Primarchs with finding and winning allies and new members for the Imperium Secundus, even among non-Imperial worlds. Huh, Rogue Trader played a lot closer to Star Trek than is usual (though with the nice twist Kirk and company are kleptomaniacs; I can't see EVERYTHING about a Rogue Trader game changing). Could definitely be interesting. I would note being unreasonably xenophobic in 40K is not only a human trait; the Tau may be friendly (to a certain degree depending on how much of the retconning you go with; I rather preferred idealist Tau running into a very bleak universe and having difficulty coping over the current "they're bastards too" read) but pretty much every other alien race has been relatively hostile to various degrees or else so alien any kind of sane interaction is a neat trick. That's not to say you should play every diplomatic effort as doomed to fail (Farsight was a good first choice), but I think it's important to the 40K setting that the universe is almost as hostile to them as humanity claims it is. I mean, look at the Eldar; they let their wild children gleefully pirate innocents, murder anybody living on maiden worlds they will never ever have the numbers to use themselves, sacrifice countless people of other species to save a handful of their own, and in general are so egotistically selfish they must spend a lot of their inhuman grace not tripping while walking with their noses held so high. And this in a species that's an "ally" to the Imperium on frequent occasion. 40K xeno diplomacy probably very rarely depends on appeals to idealism, more likely brutally pragmatism is going to be the key. Switching that up now and then is a good idea for a change of pace, but in general I'd definitely make your PC diplomats feel decidedly nervous about their backs around anybody they negotiate with. Just because some of the Imperium is moving beyond the bounds of superstition and paranoia in baby steps doesn't mean everybody else is.
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Oct 15, 2014 23:43
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MadDogMike posted:Huh, Rogue Trader played a lot closer to Star Trek than is usual (though with the nice twist Kirk and company are kleptomaniacs; I can't see EVERYTHING about a Rogue Trader game changing). Could definitely be interesting. I agree, by and large, but my friends I run the campaign with like the premise of slowly making the world of 40k a better place, bit by bit. There's no redeeming Chaos, of course, and the Imperium Secundus is never going to look like the United Federation of Planets, but there are some wars that don't need to be fought. That being said, of course, it's for eminently practical reasons that the Imperium Secundus' diplomats will have a heavily armed ship at their disposal and they're all going to be capable combatants. The Farsight Enclaves can be negotiated with. Some Necron dynasties, sure - Trazyn the Infinite dealt honorably with the PCs in the last game as long as they honored their word in turn. The Interex of the Heresy probably could have been negotiated peacefully with. But Tyranids, Chaos, Dark Eldar, Hrud, and more? Yeah, no. The overall theme I'm intending to run with is the beginnings of a new Great Crusade that's trying to avoid the mistakes of the old one. It's for that reason, for example, that the Imperium Secundus isn't trying to get rid of the Imperial Cult. Guilliman wanted to, but the other primarchs convinced him that it's simply part of the Imperium now and that the Imperial Truth was probably never going to work. Like it or not, humans are a spiritual people and will find ways to express that spirituality. All things considered, there are worse religions to follow for humans in the 40k universe than the Imperial Cult.
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Oct 16, 2014 00:07
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The Imperial Cult is also an eminently practical cult. No matter how you slice it the chief deity is also very much a human. It's altogether more difficult for a daemon of the warp or an alien to impersonate your deity when you can expect them to look and act human.
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Oct 16, 2014 00:17
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Considering the agreement with Trazyn and the open distrust of the Adeptus Mechanicus, what changes, if any, do you foresee with respect to the treatment/perception of AIs?
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Oct 16, 2014 00:21
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NGDBSS posted:Considering the agreement with Trazyn and the open distrust of the Adeptus Mechanicus, what changes, if any, do you foresee with respect to the treatment/perception of AIs? The Men of Iron were still a thing that happened. Even the splinter of the Adeptus Mechanicus that's siding with the Imperium Secundus maintains that AIs are far too dangerous. As far as the Imperium Secundus is concerned, the Necrons are at best something like a race of Dreadnoughts. More likely, they'll be regarded simply as a not necessarily hostile form of xenos.
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Oct 16, 2014 00:26
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The problem I have with 40k as a setting is that it's basically the Third Reich vs. Cthulhu in SPAAACE! Whether or not Cthulhu cultists are worse than Nazis is a pointless philosophical question, so I'm in favour of anything that either just treats the Imperium and Chaos worshipers as two sides of the same coin, or actually changes the Imperium from ludicrous grimseriousface to something more actually heroic.
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Oct 16, 2014 03:32
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The biggest thing 40k lost sight of is that as much as the Imperium tells itself its 'doing what has to be done' and the Inquisitors pat themselves on the back for being PEOPLE OF WILL who will MAKE HARD CHOICES, all this poo poo is absolutely counterproductive and pretty much the biggest reason they're on the back foot. As I see it, the joke was supposed to be that the Imperium is a ridiculous, non-functional government convinced of its own heroism and that it had essentially lost sight of the fact that all the kill on sight orders, constant purges, etc were actually rendering it unable to fight and killing it from within. The problem is 40k's writers kinda lost sight of that too. The grimdark is a bug, something you should probably be trying to struggle against (even if your GM decides its futile) rather than a feature. Unless you want to play Paranoia in Space and just revel in the insanity of the totally non-functional insano-land government, which is also a perfectly hilarious choice.
Night10194 fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 04:44
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Cythereal posted:I agree, by and large, but my friends I run the campaign with like the premise of slowly making the world of 40k a better place, bit by bit. There's no redeeming Chaos, of course, and the Imperium Secundus is never going to look like the United Federation of Planets, but there are some wars that don't need to be fought. Oh, I agree (like I said, diplomacy shouldn't be HOPELESS after all, even the current psycho Imperium does enough to have trained diplomats), just noting that humans, while massive dicks in the setting, aren't the only ones. Part of the other reason I liked the original idealist Tau; humanity basically gave up its higher ideals in the name of surviving in 40K, and the Tau worked as a nice walking question "Was abandoning ideals the only way to survive?" (with the answer not necessarily "No" given the headaches the Tau faced running their ideals into the harsh reality of their universe). It was a unique thematic niche for the Tau compared to all the other xeno races that were just as vile to "aliens" themselves. But a lot of the uniqueness of the 40K setting for me (at least for anything above bolter porn) is that it really is a crapsack universe by nature, and asking how do you deal with that when it's not opinion but demonstrable fact. The constant purging and exterminates and whatnot are a lot more interesting when there's a legitimate argument (not certainty, mind you, but an argument) to be made they ARE needed and it saves lives overall despite how many innocents die along the way. So how do you juggle surviving with having something worth living for?
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Oct 16, 2014 06:22
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Yeah, that's why I like how some writers have handled the emperor as being a total self-serving monster while others have taken that but gone with the idea that total war is the only way humanity can possibly survive in a galaxy of predominantly hostile alien races. The idea that maybe it's justified is what makes the imperium more interesting than just space nazis. Pharmaskittle fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 06:38
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Pharmaskittle posted:Yeah, that's why I like how some writers have handled the emperor as being a total self-serving monster while others have taken that but gone with the idea that total war is the only way humanity can possibly survive in a galaxy of predominantly hostile alien races. For what it's worth, I'm considering exploring what the Emperor's original vision was in this new campaign I'm getting ready to start, and my take on it is that it's a bit of both. Most of what the Emperor did was, ultimately, the only way for humanity to survive in a recognizable form as anything but slaves to another race. But... the Emperor had long since ceased to be human in any meaningful fashion, and what ultimately doomed the Imperium Primus was the fact that the Emperor no longer understood humans as human beings. He could orchestrate the rise and fall of civilizations, but being so divorced from what it means to be human he did not anticipate or know how to deal properly with those handful of individuals as powerful in the course of history as he. The Primarchs, of course, but also Malcador.
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Oct 16, 2014 06:52
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What the hell is the deal with Malcador, anyway? None of the Heresy books get into his character enough beyond involvement with the assassins that I remember, and I want to believe that a regular human had more to do with the ultimate structure of the imperium than the emperor himself, but I also find it hard to believe that he'd be onboard with the imperial cult. ed: I guess this is probably a better question for whatever presumably awful HH thread book barn has Pharmaskittle fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 07:39
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Pharmaskittle posted:What the hell is the deal with Malcador, anyway? None of the Heresy books get into his character enough beyond involvement with the assassins that I remember, and I want to believe that a regular human had more to do with the ultimate structure of the imperium than the emperor himself, but I also find it hard to believe that he'd be onboard with the imperial cult. I can answer this. Also it's not THAT terrible a thread. Malcador is THE Architect of the Imperium, as a governing entity, bar none. He is also the most powerful human psyker after the Emperor, ever. He is also likely a Perpetual, although it appears even Perpetuals can die if they're single handedly holding back a daemonic invasion. Everything written about him paints him as either the Agrippa to the Big E's Augustus or the only advisor close to the Emperor who actually understood normal people. He is also completely willing to fight in underhanded ways if it gets the job done. The Assassinorum? Him. Grey Knights? Him. Administratum? He's their patron saint. Council of Terra? He was the first leader of it. Basically Malcador is the one who came in after the Emperor lead the great crusade and kept the now-Imperial worlds functioning. Oh yeah and he has a secret treasure room underneath the Imperial palace that holds the Rosetta Stone and other insanely important pieces of humanity's cultural heritage. Although if Trayzyn the Infinite hasn't raided the place by now, I'll be damned surprised.
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Oct 16, 2014 08:48
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I'm pretty sure there are a few reasons the Imperium has gotten a more sympathetic and serious second look since the late 90's or so. Business realities and so on for GW is part of it, but I think a general post-9/11 militarism in plays a big role as well.
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Oct 16, 2014 12:42
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Cythereal posted:Finally have some real plans in motion for my Imperium Secundus setting modification. I've talked over game ideas with my players for the past week or so, finding out what everyone wanted to do, and the idea everyone liked was the Imperium Secundus being outright reasonable with non-Secundus worlds and even non-hostile xenos - the primarchs intend to not repeat many of the mistakes of the Great Crusade. As such, it's shaping up to be a Rogue Trader game casting the PCs as Ambassadors-At-Marque, entrusted by the Council of Primarchs with finding and winning allies and new members for the Imperium Secundus, even among non-Imperial worlds. Just to be clear, are they legit rogue traders with a warrant from the "real" Imperium, or just some folks that the secundus went and granted this Marque too? I think you said they were going to descend from the first game so likely the former, but the idea of the later would be interesting. The complications they could have by having a status not officially recognized by the Imperium could make for some plot hooks later.
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Oct 16, 2014 13:37
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Werix posted:Just to be clear, are they legit rogue traders with a warrant from the "real" Imperium, or just some folks that the secundus went and granted this Marque too? I think you said they were going to descend from the first game so likely the former, but the idea of the later would be interesting. The complications they could have by having a status not officially recognized by the Imperium could make for some plot hooks later. They're legit rogue traders who have thrown in with the Imperium Secundus and become ambassadors for. They're not descendants of the first game on account of everyone from that game being dead or missing for two hundred years. I am, admittedly, using the Farsight Enclaves as the opening plot hook to have a good reason for a Tau PC.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:23
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Night10194 posted:The biggest thing 40k lost sight of is that as much as the Imperium tells itself its 'doing what has to be done' and the Inquisitors pat themselves on the back for being PEOPLE OF WILL who will MAKE HARD CHOICES, all this poo poo is absolutely counterproductive and pretty much the biggest reason they're on the back foot. As I see it, the joke was supposed to be that the Imperium is a ridiculous, non-functional government convinced of its own heroism and that it had essentially lost sight of the fact that all the kill on sight orders, constant purges, etc were actually rendering it unable to fight and killing it from within. The problem is 40k's writers kinda lost sight of that too. The grimdark is a bug, something you should probably be trying to struggle against (even if your GM decides its futile) rather than a feature. Unless you want to play Paranoia in Space and just revel in the insanity of the totally non-functional insano-land government, which is also a perfectly hilarious choice. I started out DH as a relatively serious campaign, but it's definitely transitioned a lot more towards Paranoia in Space and I've started doing stuff like having their inquisitor spend their entire monthly budget buying amasec and tell them to pay their own transportation expenses to the investigations and direct all their vox-transmissions to voicemail whenever they try to contact him with questions. One of my players spent an entire month's worth of sessions trying to smoke lho-sticks in an Imperial cathedral and having them snatched out of his mouth by cherubim or Sororitas and another caused perils of the warp using telepathy to mess with another one of the players.
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Oct 16, 2014 21:59
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My group tends toward dark comedy. Not necessarily goofy like paranoia, though. I guess the best thing to compare it to is something like Pulp Fiction. The humor mostly comes from things either gradually becoming desperate to the point of absurdity or just unexpected disasters. The character himself is 100% serious as he's screaming in terror fighting a warboss, but to the players it's hilarious.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:46
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Pharmaskittle posted:My group tends toward dark comedy. Not necessarily goofy like paranoia, though. I guess the best thing to compare it to is something like Pulp Fiction. The humor mostly comes from things either gradually becoming desperate to the point of absurdity or just unexpected disasters. The character himself is 100% serious as he's screaming in terror fighting a warboss, but to the players it's hilarious. This is about my ideal 40k as well: absurdity-horror-comedy.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:54
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In my first DH game I played in we had a character fail a fear test when he realized he was eating human meat and his roll on the shock table was to go on an eating binge.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:21
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I really haven't had much chance to do 40k roleplaying, but this new SA game I've joined really encapsulates the whole setting to me. Two bumbling acolytes sent into a hive to deal with a pamphlet campaign decrying a saint important to the sector as a heretic. Things Escalated Quickly. We've basically set off what looks to become a planetwide civil war, possibly more. We have the impulsive, zealous Psyker who believes that the Emperor deemed him worthy of service (but he has no psyker powers and generally tries to cut things up with a chainsword) and the experienced Guardsman-Noble who has seen too much of this poo poo and is constantly having to save the Psyker (me) from himself. Also we stabbed a daemonhost to death with its own powerknife that we stole from it. Now my psyker is carrying the empty daemonhost shell/skin in a garbage bag. Acolyte Daren Andser posted:Daemonhost encountered. Face identical to "Saint" Octavicus. Terminated. If people happen to be looking for a new game, we have slots open and it's definitely getting interesting. The thread is here
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Oct 17, 2014 02:03
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One downside to getting ready for the Imperium Secundus campaign: drawing up stats for all sorts of new weapons. From my players' wish lists I'm drawing up a helfrost projector (infantry-scale helfrost weapon), a volkite charger, an irrad-cleanser, a photon thruster (all taken from 30k army lists), and the fifth player will be playing as a Tau. Farsight is going to be disappointed to learn that the Imperium Secundus has better guns than the Tau - I decided to remove the gets hot rule from Secundan equipment, including photon weapons. Vulkan personally insisted on including adequate cooling mechanisms and safety measures on the Secundus' more advanced energy weapons.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:58
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Add a Quantum Entangler, which literally teleports chunks of material from point A to point B. Either from the target and to you, or take an object from you and shove it into the target.
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Oct 17, 2014 04:04
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Cythereal posted:One downside to getting ready for the Imperium Secundus campaign: drawing up stats for all sorts of new weapons. From my players' wish lists I'm drawing up a helfrost projector (infantry-scale helfrost weapon), a volkite charger, an irrad-cleanser, a photon thruster (all taken from 30k army lists), and the fifth player will be playing as a Tau. In black crusade I made a multlas with suspensors and ammo glutton (cutting the clip size down to "only" 100) and made what was basically a 2d10+10 pen 2 -/-/5 assault rifle that handled like a basic weapon. I fluffed it as a great crusade prototype lasgun that never got pushed into production. Its what lasguns SHOULD have been.
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Oct 17, 2014 04:32
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FireSight posted:Add a Quantum Entangler, which literally teleports chunks of material from point A to point B. Either from the target and to you, or take an object from you and shove it into the target. Does the
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Oct 17, 2014 04:41
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Ronwayne posted:In black crusade I made a multlas with suspensors and ammo glutton (cutting the clip size down to "only" 100) and made what was basically a 2d10+10 pen 2 -/-/5 assault rifle that handled like a basic weapon. I fluffed it as a great crusade prototype lasgun that never got pushed into production. Its what lasguns SHOULD have been. I've actually decided to be kind to the basic lasgun, and I'm fluffing it with the STC discovery as being designed by none less than Ferrus Manus and commissioned by the Emperor. He knew his armies would need tens of billions of guns that could operate in any circumstance, be functional after being picked off the sea floor a few hundred years later, and be able to recharge from virtually any power source, even an open flame. In that respect, the Imperial lasgun is a true engineering wonder. More enemies of the Imperium have fallen to lasguns than to bolters, plasma, volkites, and melee weapons combined. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 04:41
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Rockopolis posted:Does the I was thinking grenades
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Oct 17, 2014 04:54
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There's a pretty great quote in, I think it's the Black Crusade corebook that goes something like "any Astartes that sneers at a lasgun has never had to charge across an open field against a thousand of them."
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Oct 17, 2014 04:59
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Cythereal posted:I've actually decided to be kind to the basic lasgun, and I'm fluffing it with the STC discovery as being designed by none less than Ferrus Manus and commissioned by the Emperor. He knew his armies would need tens of billions of guns that could operate in any circumstance, be functional after being picked off the sea floor a few hundred years later, and be able to recharge from virtually any power source, even an open flame. Yeah, the strength of the Las is it's reliability. Plus, in a pinch it you can use the charge pack as a grenade.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:02
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Ronwayne posted:In black crusade I made a multlas with suspensors and ammo glutton (cutting the clip size down to "only" 100) and made what was basically a 2d10+10 pen 2 -/-/5 assault rifle that handled like a basic weapon. I fluffed it as a great crusade prototype lasgun that never got pushed into production. Its what lasguns SHOULD have been. I had players find a Dark Age Assault Lasgun, d10+4 Pen3 S/3/5 Clip 120 that was meant to be the militarized version of the Lasgun used by actual Dark Age Federation soldiers. The joke was the STC one the Imperium had been using was a civilian hunting version, designed to be serviceable, rugged, cheap, and useful primarily against wildlife or unarmored targets. But yes, the common lasgun is a godsend to an army; a weapon that won't jam, is easy to use and teach, easy to produce, and incredibly easy to supply is a goddamn dream of a standard longarm.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:10
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VanSandman posted:Yeah, the strength of the Las is it's reliability. Plus, in a pinch it you can use the charge pack as a grenade. Also its ease of manufacture. There have been trillions of lasguns manufactured, and there are entire planets dedicated to making lasguns and nothing else.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:16
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Cythereal posted:Also its ease of manufacture. There have been trillions of lasguns manufactured, and there are entire planets dedicated to making lasguns and nothing else. There's probably a planet out there that uses lasguns as both currency and holy symbol.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:18
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even on real Earth national flags sport the ak-47, the lasgun must be such a common feature of variations of the imperial creed that the ministorum takes it as sign of worthy devotion
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Oct 17, 2014 05:23
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