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Ultima66 posted:Like you don't look at the retail price of a game and say "well that price is inflated, when it goes on sale you can buy it for less so the retail price isn't the REAL price of it." I totally look at the retail price of things and say that. Especially in the days of steam sales and stuff. People don't just drop $500 at once on a single deck all together. They buy it over time usually, or sell the rotating cards and keep the core of nonrotating cards. If you've been playing for any amount of time you have a feel for the cycles of ups and downs throughout the year and it is totally a fair way to look at the price of a deck. Mythic bant, now that was an expensive deck. 4x $100 Jace, 4x $50 Baneslayer, fetches, heirarchs, KotR, and more.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:54
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Rinkles posted:I wouldn't mind a card like Hero's Downfall being uncommon (maybe w/ a bit of life loss to compensate), for one. Rarities tend to have more to do with how they're expected to interact in limited than any kind of price consideration on the secondary market. Path to Exile was easily $5+ when it was in standard (and $50 for baneslayer and $50 for JTMS were considered crazy). What causes price inequality is that certain effects are just super-pushed for constructed and others are unplayable and those who set the prices on the secondary market have to make profit for all their initial supply, i.e. mass pack opening.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:55
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Zoness posted:Rarities tend to have more to do with how they're expected to interact in limited than any kind of price consideration on the secondary market. Speaking of card pushing, I realized today Sultai didn't get a powerful, efficient tri-colored creature like the rest of the clans (Siege Rhino, Mantis Rider, Savage Knuckleblade, and Butcher of the Horde). Although their Khan is pretty good.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:00
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Rinkles posted:Speaking of card pushing, I realized today Sultai didn't get a powerful, efficient tri-colored creature like the rest of the clans (Siege Rhino, Mantis Rider, Savage Knuckleblade, and Butcher of the Horde). Kheru lichlord is logically the last card in that cycle, and as far as powerful goes, it's up there? Unearth 2B giving the thing flying and trample, even on a random card, is pretty good. It's not "efficient" on its surface, but I'd say it's also more or less the strongest of the 5 cards. It runs counter to delve, but it is also a better effect than most delve spells anyway.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:06
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Rinkles posted:Speaking of card pushing, I realized today Sultai didn't get a powerful, efficient tri-colored creature like the rest of the clans (Siege Rhino, Mantis Rider, Savage Knuckleblade, and Butcher of the Horde).  ) The power level is pretty uneven though, since Siege Rhino and Mantis Rider are leaps and bounds ahead of any of the other CDE rares. Edit: forgot Kheru Lich Lord (and I guess that dumb Raksasha thing) but they seem so much weaker than siege rhino and mantis rider.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:08
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Edit: never mind, misunderstood
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Oct 16, 2014 23:10
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Gensuki posted:Kheru lichlord is logically the last card in that cycle, and as far as powerful goes, it's up there? Unearth 2B giving the thing flying and trample, even on a random card, is pretty good. It's not "efficient" on its surface, but I'd say it's also more or less the strongest of the 5 cards. It runs counter to delve, but it is also a better effect than most delve spells anyway.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:10
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Gensuki posted:Kheru lichlord is logically the last card in that cycle, and as far as powerful goes, it's up there? Unearth 2B giving the thing flying and trample, even on a random card, is pretty good. It's not "efficient" on its surface, but I'd say it's also more or less the strongest of the 5 cards. It runs counter to delve, but it is also a better effect than most delve spells anyway. Jonked posted:You're missing Rakasha Vizier from the cycle, the card that becomes a 10\10 after a Dig Through Time on turn 6. I know there's technically a card that fits into the cycle, but in my ignorant opinion they're significantly worse than what the other clans got.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:12
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Gensuki posted:Kheru lichlord is logically the last card in that cycle, and as far as powerful goes, it's up there? Unearth 2B giving the thing flying and trample, even on a random card, is pretty good. It's not "efficient" on its surface, but I'd say it's also more or less the strongest of the 5 cards. It runs counter to delve, but it is also a better effect than most delve spells anyway. It actually doesn't necessarily run counter to delve, since you have the option of delving away your bad creatures so you're only unearthing good creatures with him. Still, there's virtually no reason to play him in a format where Whip of Erebos exists to give you a reliable version of that effect that doesn't require paying up before your draw step.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:12
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Alris posted:Agreed, it's ridiculous but realistically what is the answer? As I gather the solution is to pretend this isn't happening and remind everyone that ten thousand years ago there was no commerce so Sorin was free, and will some day be free again.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:16
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TheKingofSprings posted:http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1218101 this, for starters poo poo, I looked at my own deck and its 700. I guess I'm more made of money than I thought.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:17
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Zoness posted:Path to Exile was easily $5+ when it was in standard Stoke the Flames is $4.64 TCG mid; the cheapest copy (including shipping) is $3.75.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:19
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mr. mephistopheles posted:No poo poo. They also reprinted a bunch of stuff to make modern more accessible and standard is now hitting modern prices. Something will have to give eventually. Literally Abzan Charm, Sandsteppe Citadel and basic land.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:22
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Rinkles posted:I know there's technically a card that fits into the cycle, but in my ignorant opinion they're significantly worse than what the other clans got. Card power across cycles is rarely close to equal, either in limited or constructed.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:24
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Elyv posted:Card power across cycles is rarely close to equal, either in limited or constructed. Of course. I was only noting it 'cause BUG is probably my favorite wedge.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:25
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I mean would Abzan even be a top tier deck w/o the Rhino?
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Oct 16, 2014 23:28
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Rinkles posted:I mean would Abzan even be a top tier deck w/o the Rhino? Well, define top tier? Without rhino, there are still a good number of abzan cards that are certainly standard playable. I think itt, someone said Abzan was 4 of the top 8 decks in the pro tour? It might not be that common, but I'd still expect to see more Abzan than Sultai for instance. Most outlast cards work without outlasting, most delve cards do not work without delving... Biggest shift, we might see more Mardu if there weren't so many rhinos with 5 toughness?
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Oct 16, 2014 23:40
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^^Really? Without the Rhino it would probably be running some combo of Polukranos and Anfensena, or Reaper of the Wilds. I don't think it would hurt it that much. Everyone is complaining about prices now when last year 2 of the best decks could be bought for half these prices (and much less if you already had copies of stuff that was literally junk rare jank a couple months before: Desecration Demon, Pack Rat, & Nightveil Spectre.) There are always going to be expensive cards in the best decks because people need them (Thoughtseize, Mutavault, Thassa, Master of Waves before its price cratered) and multicolor decks have always been more. If you want to be the spikiest Spike of them all, you gotta pay. And then figure out a way to pay more by only using foils.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:43
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rabidsquid posted:As I gather the solution is to pretend this isn't happening and remind everyone that ten thousand years ago there was no commerce so Sorin was free, and will some day be free again. And yet the Louisiana state champ deck by Tom Ross, excluding eidolon from his sideboard costs like $20
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Oct 16, 2014 23:44
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jassi007 posted:And yet the Louisiana state champ deck by Tom Ross, excluding eidolon from his sideboard costs like $20 Literally beating the 700 dollar deck with a sack of pennies.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:49
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Gensuki posted:Kheru lichlord is logically the last card in that cycle, and as far as powerful goes, it's up there? Unearth 2B giving the thing flying and trample, even on a random card, is pretty good. It's not "efficient" on its surface, but I'd say it's also more or less the strongest of the 5 cards. It runs counter to delve, but it is also a better effect than most delve spells anyway. Lichlord costs 6, gives nothing unless you untap, requires 3 mana on top of it and doesn't let you choose. Changing any one of those would probably make it playable but right now it's bad bad bad, by far the worst of those.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:49
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Count Bleck posted:Literally beating the 700 dollar deck with a sack of pennies. I'm pretty sure if you were literally beating someone's deck, you'd have someone asking for you to be DQ'ed for bad sportsmanship.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:50
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Rinkles posted:I mean would Abzan even be a top tier deck w/o the Rhino? Maybe, but Rhino is the most powerful card in the deck. Second place is pretty far off.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:50
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I think without Rhino, Abzan decks would be trying to curve Fleecemane > Anafenza > Polukranos.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:53
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Rinkles posted:I mean would Abzan even be a top tier deck w/o the Rhino? No. Rhino is swingy as gently caress. You'd probably run Polukranos instead, but that's not nearly as good.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:54
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Angry Grimace posted:No. Rhino is swingy as gently caress. You'd probably run Polukranos instead, but that's not nearly as good. I mean Polukranos is pretty good but I would like to have trample and a 6 life swimg immediately Basically Rhino is really really dumb
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Oct 16, 2014 23:59
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jassi007 posted:And yet the Louisiana state champ deck by Tom Ross, excluding eidolon from his sideboard costs like $20 RDW was dirt cheap and effective in the era of $1000 Conscription Bant as well. That doesn't really excuse the problem.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:02
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Something I've been wondering: pre-NWO, how rare heavy were competitive standard decks? It definitely seems like there's very few constructed playable cards in the C/UC slot, and I'm curious if that's always been the case or if it's due to designing for limited.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:04
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muon posted:Something I've been wondering: pre-NWO, how rare heavy were competitive standard decks? It definitely seems like there's very few constructed playable cards in the C/UC slot, and I'm curious if that's always been the case or if it's due to designing for limited. Very deck dependent. Like, UG Madness had basically no rares at all except for duals, but something like Kamigawa/Ravnica era control was stuffed with rares.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:07
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Equilibrium posted:RDW was dirt cheap and effective in the era of $1000 Conscription Bant as well. That doesn't really excuse the problem. The problem is people are willing to spend that much on this hobby. Nothing that doesn't endanger the success of WotC can fix that
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Oct 17, 2014 00:25
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jassi007 posted:And yet the Louisiana state champ deck by Tom Ross, excluding eidolon from his sideboard costs like $20 Is this a real deck, or was it just a good meta call?
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Oct 17, 2014 00:39
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Oh man one of my stores is doing a Khanstavagenza tomorrow, first prize is 2 boxes of khans, and then Saturday is a Fetchlandia! First prize is a playset of all 5 khans fetches! But I made plans for a date with the girlfriend.. And I work late Saturday.. Quite a conundrum, indeed.  Goons help me save Christmas!
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Oct 17, 2014 00:42
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:Is this a real deck, or was it just a good meta call? It's real, and as long as decks want to run Temples it's worth running a quick aggro deck that takes advantage of the early turns.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:45
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Go on the date dude. You play too much Magic as it is.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:46
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If the collectable aspect of this game were banished, I wouldn't mind at all. Here's a new set! Buy the whole drat thing for X dollars! Buy it multiple times for copies! Stores can still open the packages and sell singles!
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Oct 17, 2014 00:51
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Forget the date, dude. You play nowhere near enough magic as it is. But seriously, I'm so envious of the people that live in areas with meaningful local tournaments. 'Round these parts I'm lucky to go to an IQ every few months. I would kill to play in these fabled semi-frequent "win a dual" style tournaments or a greater than 15-20 person FNM.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:55
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Typhus733 posted:Forget the date, dude. You play nowhere near enough magic as it is. I mean I don't get that much of a tournament scene unless someone does one of these win a dual/box/playset of x/goyfs deals either, we just have some events where 8 people show up and others where 25+ show up. Its weird. I also don't have an IQ/big event until December, unless TCG runs another thing in central Jersey.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:00
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Count Bleck posted:Oh man one of my stores is doing a Khanstavagenza tomorrow, first prize is 2 boxes of khans, and then Saturday is a Fetchlandia! First prize is a playset of all 5 khans fetches! I'm assuming this is an ironic post, but just in case it isn't, go on the date because no amount of Khans boxes are worth a pissed off girlfriend.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:00
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:I'm assuming this is an ironic post, but just in case it isn't, go on the date because no amount of Khans boxes are worth a pissed off girlfriend. I mean I wasn't lying about the bonkers weekend they've setup and I probably should've scheduled around it. That said I don't have the last piece of my RUG Walkers deck on me yet (loving Keranos  ) and the only other decks I have built are the widely varied results Gr Devotion and a homebrew Red Control deck that went 3-3 at an IQ about 3 weeks ago
Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 01:05
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Count Bleck posted:Oh man one of my stores is doing a Khanstavagenza tomorrow, first prize is 2 boxes of khans, and then Saturday is a Fetchlandia! First prize is a playset of all 5 khans fetches! The date can be a day in a store filled with smelly people playing cards, I'm sure she'll be understanding and accepting.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:12
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