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Spikeguy posted:Watching The End of Time again, and for all the craziness, it might be my favorite performance in the entire series by Tennant. His utter fear of the end, and the way he portrays it hits me every time. It's interesting that it's been kind of written off as his vanity since he doesn't really die, but I think as humans who have to ask some very hard question about their mortality we can all appreciate where he's coming from. His vanity was him regenerating but keeping the same face when he clones himself.
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Oct 16, 2014 05:30
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Cribbins's "Good-o" is just the best thing
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Oct 16, 2014 07:39
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PriorMarcus posted:This also makes his fear of regeneration make more sense, he's going onto his last life and Trenzalore. He doesn't know about trenzalore yet does he? Except as a place name River mentioned.
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Oct 16, 2014 08:22
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Cerv posted:He doesn't know about trenzalore yet does he? Except as a place name River mentioned. Could he be experiencing a subconscious echo from events during Day of the Doctor? I seem to remember something there near the end of that episode (I've only watched it once because retconning the destruction of Gallifrey pissed me off) and I understand Ten shouldn't remember all that, but maybe there's a hint of something that made his Timey-wimey senses keep tingling. Or I could have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Oct 16, 2014 08:28
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Cerv posted:He doesn't know about trenzalore yet does he? Except as a place name River mentioned. He learns about Trenzalore before End of Time in Day of the Doctor, but he won't remember being told the name or what it means until he's the 11th Doctor telling himself (the 10th Doctor) a few hundred years down the line. It does add a rather neat twist to the start of End of Time though. I always viewed him showing up to meet the Ood with a cocky attitude as him being utterly desperate to hide his fear, but now I like to think that just before he arrives he suddenly finds himself in an immensely good and hopeful mood without really understanding WHY.
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Oct 16, 2014 08:29
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egon_beeblebrox posted:So "The Talons of Weng-Chiang" is a crazy serial. If it weren't for all the weird racism, it'd pretty much be a perfect story. Tom Baker seems to be ahving a lot of fun in it. The stories before and after it (Robots of Death and Horror of Fang Rock) are great if you want more from that era.
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Oct 16, 2014 08:32
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McGann posted:Sorry, been listening to the Klein trilogy this past week. I love Klein, I have to listen to those again. The most confidently incorrect Nazi scientist 
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Oct 16, 2014 10:58
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I just finished The Holy Terror and, golly, that went from really funny to incredibly dark really quickly. Also, I need more Frobisher in my life.
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Oct 16, 2014 13:04
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PurpleJesus posted:I just finished The Holy Terror and, golly, that went from really funny to incredibly dark really quickly. Also, I need more Frobisher in my life. While The Holy Terror is one of the best audios Big Finish ever put out, the sudden turn from comic farce to dark horror probably threw a lot of listeners off. And then you add “talking penguin out of nowhere…” Casual listeners and some more dedicated fans probably had no idea who Frobisher was, and the idea of a large flightless bird travelling with the Sixth Doctor without any setup or backstory added up to, sadly, no more Frobisher, save for The Maltese Penguin. As for The Talons of Weng-Chiang, it’s one of the best Fourth Doctor stories, and I can almost (ALMOST, it’s still very much there and I’m not starting a derail) get past the casual racism thanks to the commentary. “Do you know how HARD it was to find a Chinese actor in 1970’s England?” The atmosphere, the sci-fi elements, the tension (I love the “chase” in the backstage area), and the secondary characters being such an utter delight. If anything, it’s the cheesiness of the giant sewer rat that throws me off the most in this story.
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Oct 16, 2014 13:15
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Jsor posted:Smith chose to die in order to save many people, but 10 died to save a single, ordinary grandfather. Sure, but 5 died to save an undergrad with questionable career prospects and
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Oct 16, 2014 14:04
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Yeah, The Holy terror wasn't doing it for me for the first episode or so. I couldn't quite understand why it had the reputation it had, but slowly it turned into something beautiful.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:29
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Another great thing about the Wilf and Doctor moments, is that my daughter is convinced that Wilf is 10's daddy. I don't have the heart to tell her otherwise.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:34
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Spikeguy posted:Another great thing about the Wilf and Doctor moments, is that my daughter is convinced that Wilf is 10's daddy. I don't have the heart to tell her otherwise. Headcanon accepted.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:37
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Guys, what if Missy is 100% of primary school teachers in London? What then? (okay I'm done)
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Oct 16, 2014 17:37
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I just saw someone on Tumblr suggest that Clara died in the Doctor's timestream after Name of the Doctor and the character we've seen from Day onwards is one of her echoes, which is such a good idea that I'll be very sad when it turns out not to be true.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:28
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That's really not a good idea. A better idea would be forgetting that bad echoes storyline ever happened. Clara has increasingly become the protagonist of this show, revealing she isn't really who we think she is would just leave viewers feeling cheated.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:53
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Just posting to say A) Dark Eyes is still awesome, even on my ~ 4th re-listen (prepping for Dark Eyes III next month) and B) Jago & Litefoot Series 8 came out today. Which makes me happy but sad because I can't afford it in my audio budget just yet. But it's there, waiting! And let's not gently caress with Clara's characterization now that she's finally becoming, well, an actual character. McGann fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 20:07
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I still vote that Clara is the Doctor and she picked up some dope from Pompeii as her cover story.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:10
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Know what I think? I think Clara should have died in Name of the Doctor, the Doctor should have gone into the 50th alone and he should have picked up the girl who hero-worshipped him as his new companion. I've got nothing against Jenna Coleman but as much as they seem to be trying to ignore it, Name of the Doctor happened, Clara made that choice to become woven into the Doctor's entire timeline. After that I don't think her voluntarily leaving the Doctor will ever ring true. Hero worship girl could have gone through the same arc as Clara has done this season, even! Explore the disconnect between Smith as the Doctor she was expecting and Capaldi as the Doctor she got.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:17
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After being a bland non-character for ages, Clara is finally good now so I am glad she's still around.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:19
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Dabir posted:Know what I think? I think Clara should have died in Name of the Doctor, the Doctor should have gone into the 50th alone and he should have picked up the girl who hero-worshipped him as his new companion. I've got nothing against Jenna Coleman but as much as they seem to be trying to ignore it, Name of the Doctor happened, Clara made that choice to become woven into the Doctor's entire timeline. After that I don't think her voluntarily leaving the Doctor will ever ring true. Hero worship girl could have gone through the same arc as Clara has done this season, even! Explore the disconnect between Smith as the Doctor she was expecting and Capaldi as the Doctor she got. I think this sounds awful and I am very glad you do not write for TV shows.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:39
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Feel free to elaborate on that I guess? The splintering in Name was the perfect conclusion to the whole horrible mess that the ~Impossible Girl~ thing - Clara's entire defining trait- had become. Once that was concluded, the character should have been wrapped up. The Clara of this season is practically an entirely different character from the Clara who travelled with Eleven, complete with entirely different background out of nowhere, except that she's still dragging around the "I am the girl who was born to save the Doctor" baggage. Besides, hero worship girl would have been starting from the exact same place regarding her feelings about the Doctor.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:49
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Dabir posted:Know what I think? I think Clara should have died in Name of the Doctor, the Doctor should have gone into the 50th alone and he should have picked up the girl who hero-worshipped him as his new companion. Day of the Doctor doesn't work without Clara (or some other established Companion) there to pull him back from pushing the History Eraser Button.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:51
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Wasn't that the point of the Moment wearing Rose's face? It should have been, anyway, get more focus on that.
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Oct 16, 2014 21:04
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The relationship between the Doctor and the Clara this season feels like it's built on a season we didn't see. One where Smith didn't leave earlier than planned and Trenzalore was properly established etc.
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Oct 16, 2014 21:09
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CobiWann posted:While The Holy Terror is one of the best audios Big Finish ever put out, the sudden turn from comic farce to dark horror probably threw a lot of listeners off. And then you add “talking penguin out of nowhere…” Casual listeners and some more dedicated fans probably had no idea who Frobisher was, and the idea of a large flightless bird travelling with the Sixth Doctor without any setup or backstory added up to, sadly, no more Frobisher, save for The Maltese Penguin. Holy Terror and The Maltese Penguin own really hard. They're really funny (and in Holy Terror sometimes very creepy) and great. More Frobisher would be awesome. Talons is amazing, and Jago and Litefoot definitely deserve that Big Finish Spin-off they have (Which I'm going to start buying Soon). I wish they'd show back up on the show instead of the lizard-lover-potatoman trio that keeps popping up. Who cares that they're 40 years older, just bring em back. The racism just makes it difficult to recommend, which is terrible because otherwise the writing/acting/directing is Incredible. egon_beeblebrox fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 21:20
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marktheando posted:After being a bland non-character for ages, Clara is finally good now so I am glad she's still around. I have to share something: there's one guy on another forum I sometimes visit who was recently (after "The Caretaker", I think) complaining that he hates Clara now because she "was more interesting when she was a puzzle to solve" and now she's "nothing but a bunch of character traits". 
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Oct 16, 2014 22:04
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Clara choosing to splinter herself across time to save the Doctor was a big moment for her (that would have had more time to feel earned had she gotten an entire season as the Doctor's companion) but the Doctor then choosing to go after her and pull her out was enormously important - she made an impossible sacrifice to save his life and thus all the things he'd done in his past, and in return he guaranteed her the future she was denying herself. For the Doctor to have just passively accepted her sacrifice and moved on to a different companion would have been a disservice both to the character of Clara and an aberration on behalf of the Doctor. He always tries to find another way, he always tries to save somebody, and though he doesn't always succeed he always has to try. That's something that Day of the Doctor got so, so right. When 10 and 11 tell the War Doctor he made the right choice and that they're here to make it again with him, it's a really wonderful and sweet moment but it's also wrong, and Clara is there to remind the Doctor of that like all the best companions do, and that's when all three decide,"gently caress it, we're gonna do the impossible because that's what we do!" Having an entirely new character sitting there telling the Doctor,"Oh hey you shouldn't do this!" would just have the Doctor sadly shake his head and tell them they didn't understand. Having The Moment say it in Rose's body wouldn't have worked because it's NOT Rose (and by that I don't mean it's Martha!) - you needed an established character there with a history with the Doctor to remind him of what he is at his best, which is a guy who always at least tries to find an alternative solution.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:05
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PriorMarcus posted:The relationship between the Doctor and the Clara this season feels like it's built on a season we didn't see. One where Smith didn't leave earlier than planned and Trenzalore was properly established etc. That seems quite well implied by Day of the Doctor, it starts off showing Clara is now a teacher, and the events of the previous episode are mentioned in a "remember back when that happened?" kind of way.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:35
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Burkion posted:A Time Lord can only regenerate if they are DYING, out right. Didn't that one Time Lord regenerate himself to death. He was perfectly fine but decided to commit suicide by starting a regeneration without having enough regeneration energy to complete the process because he was on his last life? If that's to be taken as canon, a Time Lord can regenerate at will.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:01
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Just noticed: Human nature is finally going to be reprinted and will be out in February.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:47
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Adder Moray posted:If that's to be taken as canon, a Time Lord can regenerate at will. That's also been established by Romana casually choosing to regenerate.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:24
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thexerox123 posted:That's also been established by Romana casually choosing to regenerate. She could have repeatedly dosed herself with radiation or poison to induce regeneration. We don't know for certain that she didn't.  That would be insane, sure, but most timelords we've seen aren't entirely sane by human standards.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:31
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I've always figured that, as usual, the Doctor is an outlier. I expect that, at least until the Time War anyway, most Time Lords regenerated when they wanted to, not because they needed to from traumatic injury. The Doctor lives a dangerous life and therefore has to save his regenerations for when he's inevitably killed in action. Most Time Lords probably flip the switch when aging starts to be a problem or when they feel the current body start to perform sub-optimally. It's not hard to imagine that Romana, having just been through the Key to Time business, was feeling worn around the edges and decided to just say "The hell with it" and triggered her regeneration because of it Or from a psychological standpoint, it could be that she wanted to stay with the Doctor but Romana One was too dutiful to be able to do that and so chose to regenerate into someone who could. e:sp jng2058 fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 00:57
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jng2058 posted:I've always figured that, as usual, the Doctor is an outlier. I expect that, at least until the Time War anyway, most Time Lords regenerated when they wanted to, not because they needed to from traumatic injury. The Doctor lives a dangerous life and therefore has to save his regenerations for when he's inevitably killed in action. Most Time Lords probably flip the switch when aging starts to be a problem or when they feel the current body start to perform sub-optimally. I dunno, I got the opposite feel from Dark Eyes as (spoilers for the last 3rd of Dark Eyes to follow) Straxis has one of his CIA operatives sacrifice themselves on Stranghor (sp), where The Doctor assumes he hasn't regenerated before (and he confirms this, or he is saying 'no, not possible' - kinda hard to tell in the context) and starts to explain it before being told it's not possible.. Then again, Dark Eyes is set pretty close to the start of the Time War, so could still fit into your theory. But that's just the most recent audio I recall that mentioned regeneration explicitly, I'm sure if I wiki'd it enough I would find several opposite examples (and several more supporting it, and then two more crazy rear end theories that make no sense) edit: vvv True, I had that thought but it struck me as odd that a CIA operative was assumed to have never regenerated before. My own interpretation, though. McGann fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 03:48
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Also, you've got to imagine that CIA agents probably get shot more often than regular stay at home Time Lords do.
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Oct 17, 2014 03:56
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jng2058 posted:Also, you've got to imagine that CIA agents probably get shot more often than regular stay at home Time Lords do. I edited to reply to this but now I have to reply (for realz, yo). I opened the Tardis wiki page about Regeneration and...holy poo poo is it long. I'm usually gung-ho about reading these things but goddamn, a little too detailed for me. http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Regeneration edit: Tardis Wiki posted:The residual energy also provided a Time Lord with greater endurance; the Twelfth Doctor fell out of tree, but remained unaffected by it. (TV: Deep Breath) ...Seriously? Sperg much? That's pretty flimsy evidence McGann fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 04:06
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 The Doctor and Clara are on the most beautiful train in history, speeding among the stars of the future. But a deadly creature is stalking the passengers. Once you see the horrifying mummy, you only have 66 seconds to live. No exceptions, no reprieve. As the Doctor races against the clock, Clara sees him at his deadliest and most ruthless. Will he work out how to defeat the mummy? Start the clock! Peter Capaldi is the Doctor in Mummy on the Orient Express. X X X X X Cast Peter Capaldi (The Doctor) Jenna Coleman (Clara Oswald) Frank Skinner (Perkins) David Bamber (Captain Quell) John Sessions (GUS) Daisy Beaumount (Maisie) Janet Henfrey (Mrs Pitt) Christopher Villers (Professor Moorhouse) Foxes (Singer) Jamie Hill (The Foretold) Written by: Jamie Mathieson Directed by: Paul Wilmshurst Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BndH-iC-3eo Gifs by: J-Ru X X X X X It's your standard formula any science fiction or adventure series. Take a classic monster. Put them in an exotic setting. Throw in your cast, in this case the Doctor and his companion. And mix it all up with a ticking clock and a deadly deadline. Mummy on the Orient Express is a throwback to the “classic” William Hartnell days with some modern sensibilities thrown in for flavor, as the Doctor and Clara find themselves trapped with a deadly creature that only the Doctor can defeat. As another solid episode in a memorable season, Mummy drips with atmosphere and tension, while somehow managing to push the Doctor/Clara dynamic while feeling like said dynamic is running in place.  It's the “last hurrah” for the Doctor and Clara. After the events of Kill the Moon, the Doctor and Clara have agreed to part ways, though one of them is having a harder time coming to grips than the other. Their final destination is the Orient Express, now running the rails of deep space, filled with glamor and an exotic air. But there's another passenger; the Foretold, a mummy that only its victims can see for the final 66 seconds of their life. No amount of pleading, begging, bargaining, or threats can dissuade it from its task. The Doctor finds himself forced to solve the mystery of the Foretold, and once again Clara finds herself both horrified by the Doctor's actions and drawn into his schemes...  While this is the first episode of his to air, this is actually the second episode by Being Humanwriter Jamie Mathieson. After turning in the script for the upcoming episode Flatline, Mathieson was asked to pen a second episode, and Mummy on the Orient Express was the result. Teaming up with Paul Wilmshurst, who's direction was one of the high points of Kill the Moon, Mathieson's script takes a familiar setting and gives it a very neat twist. The Orient Express was a long-distance passenger train that ran from Paris to Istanbul (or Constantinople) from 1883 to 2009. In a time when traveling was still rough and dangerous, the Orient Express redefined the art of luxury travel. One of the most famous detective story involved the Orient Express as well; Agatha Christie's Murder on the Orient Express. Mummy on the Orient Express combines both the luxury and the mystery of the famous train, establishing the setting from the very beginning with a meal in the dining car, a mysterious Egyptian-esque artifact in the storage car, and rolling right into the Doctor and Clara arriving in stunning outfits while meeting the train's head of security, Captain Quell. There is a disconnect, however, as the Doctor and Clara arrive on the train together, something unexpected considering Clara's outburst at the end of Kill the Moon. While it's made clear very early on that this is supposed to be the last journey on the TARDIS for Clara, the lack of any indication of a time jump is just a bit jarring.  The second half of the episode throws away the exotic setting in a neat twist. Instead of a space-borne train, it turns out that the Orient Express is actually a mobile laboratory, and the AI in charge of the train, GUS, has brought together some of the greatest scientists in the universe in an attempt to solve the mystery of the Foretold. Sadly, it seems the greatest scientists in the universe are just the Doctor, the train's engineer, and a history professor. The supporting cast really doesn't hold up in this serial, save for the performance of Janet Henfrey (who older fans might remember from the essential Seventh Doctor story The Curse of Fenric) as the Foretold's first victim, Ms. Pitt. The rest of the cast – David Bamber's Captain Quell, head of train security, Daisy Beaumont's grief stricken daughter Maise, and Christopher Villier's Professor Moorhouse, and even Frank Skinner as train engineer and temporary companion Perkins – exist only to tell the Doctor just how wrong he is, or just how wrong they were for not believing in him before dying at the hands of the Foretold. “Dying” is actually a strong word. It's more like “scream, close their eyes, slump over, and stop acting for the remainder of their screen time.” The Foretold itself, a mummy-like creature, looked both scary and silly at the same time, to the point where my stepdaughter was laughing even as she had the blanket pulled up to just under her eyes. When the Foretold appeared, a “countdown clock” appeared in the corner, counting down from 66 seconds until the victim's death at its hands. Kudos to Wilmshurst and the editing team for making those 66 seconds exactly 66 seconds and perfectly encapsulating a victim's fear, grief, and pleading. The standout performance was by noted British comedian John Sessions, best known in recent times for his work on QI, as the AI GUS. He absolutely nails the polite and sinister sense of evil the best villains have, politely telling the Doctor to end his phone call even as he's depressurizing the kitchen car to kill the staff. I really hope we get to see him down in a future episode, maybe if he's tied with Missy in someway? As for the cameo appearance of British pop singer Foxes, who sang a 20's lounge cover of Queen's “Don't Stop Me Now,” all I can say is that I treated it in the same vein as Lorde's cover of Tears For Fears' “Everybody Wants To Rule The World.” I vastly prefer the original version from the soundtracks to Shaun of the Dead and Real Genius, respectively.  Once again, we get a great example of the chemistry between the Doctor and Clara, and by extension Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman. Previous regenerations of the Doctor have gone out of their way to save lives if they could, and the Twelfth Doctor is no different. Despite being very rough around the edges, he won't put people in harm's way if he can help it. But, he also know when a person is in a situation where there's no way out, like the soldier from Into the Dalek and the victims of the Foretold in this serial. “People with guns to their head have no time to mourn,” he tells Perkins, and even when a person is pleading for their life and staring down their fate, he's trying to get information from them, not because he's being a dick, but because he's trying to save the lives of any future victims. The script by Mathieson touches upon something that's come up very often throughout the history of the show; plot-necessary deaths, be they by murder, assassination, or self-sacrifice. Many a time, someone has to die in order for the serial's story to advance. In Mummy on the Orient Express, the deaths are something the Doctor CAN'T stop. Normally, it's the Doctor who puts himself in harm's way, but here he has no choice but to stand on the sidelines until he can figure out a way to MAKE himself stand in harm's way. All he can do is gather information from the impending deaths, without emotion. It's very pragmatic...and in a way, very military. One life for a hundred. Two lives for a thousand. Three lives for...how many? The soldier thing keeps following him. Part of me wonders if Missy is somehow involved, the vengeance of all those who died at the hands of the Doctor during the Time War. Clara isn't willing to let go of the Doctor. Aside from simply looking absolutely SMASHING in that dress, Jenna Coleman portrays someone who, time and time again, says they're going to stop, some who's going to leave, but simply just can't, as seen in her conversation with Maise in the storage car. The inability of a companion to willingly leave the Doctor has been a theme of sorts in the revival. Rose loved the Tenth Doctor, seeing him as his ideal man. Donna was becoming a better person the more and more she traveled with him and saw life outside of Chiswick. Amy had known the Doctor nearly her entire life, his initial visit ingrained in her psyche, and their fates were woven together thanks to River Song. And pre-Season 8 Clara was the anchor through his regenerations and many of her lifetimes as the Impossible Girl. With the myriad of experiences from traveling with Twelve, Clara has seen him be rude, brash, pragmatic, jerkish, standoff-ish, and at times lying, even if in the end the day is saved and everything works out for the best. By the end of Kill the Moon, she had had enough and was ready to leave...but there had to be one more trip. One more journey. One more adventure, she told Danny. She was right back next to the Doctor, and even LIED for him in order to get Maisie to the train car. Viewers can see the changes that being with the Doctor have inflicted upon Clara; some good, some bad, some borderline toxic. And yet, she lies to Danny, a lie she knows she'll have to reveal somewhere down the line, for another adventure. It's one of the classic cycles of addiction. Even when you know something is bad for you, you're lying to loved ones and rationalizing to yourself to keep getting your fix. With the season coming to a close, it's not a question of if Clara's decision is going to come full circle, but when...and how.  On the other side of things...the Doctor brings Clara into a obvious trap, not a “last hurrah.” Maybe he knew the rush of adventure would entice her to stay. And even if he didn't, the Doctor should have picked up that Clara was lying to him...maybe, for the first time in a long time, it's the Doctor who is having trouble saying goodbye? On the surface, Mummy on the Orient Express is a simple episode. Dig a little deeper, and one can find a very rich episode with long-term implications. A few years down the line, there's a very good chance that this episode will be considered one of the “essential” stories for the Twelfth Doctor.  Next up - The Doctor discovers a new menace from another dimension... Peter Capaldi is the Doctor in Flatline.
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Oct 17, 2014 04:15
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That moment where the Doctor reveals he set things up so he could force the Mummy to choose him as its next target is absolutely stunning, and the way his theme kicks in is the perfect accompaniment. I haven't agreed with the people who said that Capaldi didn't quite feel like he was the Doctor yet, but surely nobody could question it after THAT moment?
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Oct 17, 2014 04:33
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Jerusalem posted:That moment where the Doctor reveals he set things up so he could force the Mummy to choose him as its next target is absolutely stunning, and the way his theme kicks in is the perfect accompaniment. I haven't agreed with the people who said that Capaldi didn't quite feel like he was the Doctor yet, but surely nobody could question it after THAT moment? Hell, reading that review made me load up Mummy for a third viewing before Saturday. I really, really, enjoyed that episode. I'm not sure if I like Into the Dalek or Mummy on the Orient Express better, but between the two they're the most enjoyable of the season (thus far).
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Oct 17, 2014 04:35
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